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I don't disagree on its overuse Noodles but i) a largely meta comedic book would be the perfect place for it, and could even be commented on; ii) it makes for a less awkward image than what we got.
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Sep 15, 2016 13:36
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| # ? May 17, 2024 07:26 |
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Roth posted:Sentry ended so abruptly I honestly thought Marvel Unlimited didn't have the whole thing up.
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Sep 15, 2016 14:18
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I finished Morrison's New X-Men run. I kinda already knew that Xorn was Magneto (I think it got spoiled for me somewhere casually) but the reveal and subsequent penultimate arc was still really good. It's a really good, triumphant concluding arc that ends up tying everything that was going on together in a way that feels really intelligent, closing out Jean's/Emma's/Scott's/Logan's/etc stories really well. Kinda disappointed that New X-Men focused so heavily on the legacy X-Men since I found people like Quentin Quire/Beak/the Cuckoos much more interesting of characters, but you know, whatever. It's an impressive run of comics that made me care for a group of superheroes I usually have apathy to outright antipathy for, from a writer I often run hot and cold on. I sorta see why people bitch about "Hitler Magneto" but I felt like Morrison wrote a very good Magneto even so and I really did love Xorn immensely, so I'm fine with it. I guess the thing that disappoints me the most is that that's...not the end, and I found the entire concluding arc of Morrison's NXM run to be totally unnecessary to outright kind of bad. It's yet another "post-apocalyptic nightmare dystopia set way in the future" X-Men story, it's all obviously going to be invalidated, it has a bunch of characters I don't care about because I have no real connection to them dying, it introduces more questions than answers (why is Cassandra Nova in Ernst's body and helping save the future of mutantkind?) and needlessly complicates other aspects of Morrison's established canon. I guess Kick is actually some sort of hyper-intelligent malignant bacteria that seeks to destroy mutants or something, somehow? Plus, although I really appreciated the final couple pages of the final issue since it sorta justified the four issue arc, it's a resolution based around yet another "preventing a dystopian future via fixing the past" ending, which makes the whole exercise feel like a waste of time. It didn't exactly leave a bad taste in my mouth, but it feels like a story that could've been told and resolved in one issue that inexplicably took four, as a long and really unnecessary epilogue to Morrison's saga. I have to say that, on the whole, Morrison's X-Men stuff is probably his most consistent and overall generally "best" work of his I read, since rear end does basically nothing for me, his Batman has a lot more downpoints/rough patches even if his highpoints are way, way higher (and I think ends it way, way worse than NXM), and his Doom Patrol is basically a rollercoaster ride in quality. I don't think it's the best work he's ever done (Batman R.I.P. and/or Batman and Robin), but it's generally very good with only one real misstep, which is unfortunately right at the end. But I'm able to sort of justify it as him nailing the ending he wanted with the penultimate arc and having to write a four-issue coda that doesn't really go anywhere. NieR Occomata fucked around with this message at 17:26 on Sep 15, 2016 |
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Sep 15, 2016 17:22
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Toxxupation posted:It's yet another "post-apocalyptic nightmare dystopia set way in the future" X-Men story, it's all obviously going to be invalidated, Great commentary on NXM. One quibble, though -- its all invalidated right there, that's the whole point. That's the future they're going to get if they don't change, and the end, Scott deciding to make a go with Emma rather than moan about Jean for a decade, is what the Phoenices screw with time to make happen. I also didn't like the future stuff, but I love how it was resolved, and I wanted to point that out. (In the other direction, the actual bits of the War of the Atom future we saw I liked way more than the actual present day stuff or total non-resolution. Ditto again with Quentin's farewell arc in Wolverine &) (but that latter is because I am deeply invested in Quentin/Evan/Idie and their future struggles.)
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Sep 15, 2016 17:50
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Kick is John Sublime. He ends up as Future Beast.
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Sep 15, 2016 17:50
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Yeah I barely remembered who Sublime was so I looked it up on Wikipedia and I think that's even more eye-rollingly dumb (and kind of a big ask for the comic to demand I remember a minor villain whose only appearance was at the very beginning of a 42 issue run of stories, because I certainly didn't). And yeah, I got that Phoenix was basically "fixing" the future by letting Scott go, and it's why I felt like, again, the final couple pages of the final issue of the arc was so good. It's just hard to see how the final arc needed four issues to be told when it could've been something like the first and last "scene" of an issue was the graveyard convo between Emma and Scott with the entirety of the story taking place within the twentyish odd pages in between.
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Sep 15, 2016 18:04
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Toxxupation posted:I kinda already knew that Xorn was Magneto (I think it got spoiled for me somewhere casually) The thing is, Xorn wasn't really Magneto. Xorn is Xorn, he just convinced himself that he was Magneto. Toxxupation posted:I guess the thing that disappoints me the most is that that's...not the end, and I found the entire concluding arc of Morrison's NXM run to be totally unnecessary to outright kind of bad. You can check out Phoenix: Endsong if you want a better wrap-up. Opinions are mixed, I personally think it's great. Right after that is Pheonix: Warsong, but even I don't care for that one. Toxxupation posted:It's yet another "post-apocalyptic nightmare dystopia set way in the future" X-Men story, it's all obviously going to be invalidated Yeah, you would think so. You would logically assume that those events were wiped out. Except there was this one panel in a pre-Secret War comic where Cyclops was like, "Yo, what's up, I got this Phoenix egg". Then he used it to become Phoenix so he could get dunked on by Doom. All the events around Secret Wars are not quite non-canon, so that Phoenix egg could still come into play, even though it shouldn't exist in this timeline, and even then it wouldn't exist yet, and even then nobody would know about it.
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Sep 15, 2016 18:23
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Maxwell Adams posted:
Secret War or Secret Wars 2015? If the latter, you mean right before the final Incursion?
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Sep 15, 2016 18:26
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Toxxupation posted:you mean right before the final Incursion? Yeah.
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Sep 15, 2016 18:37
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Maxwell Adams posted:The thing is, Xorn wasn't really Magneto. Xorn is Xorn, he just convinced himself that he was Magneto. That's a silly retcon.
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Sep 15, 2016 18:40
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It was a silly story to begin with so it balances out.
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Sep 15, 2016 18:42
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Making it not Magneto takes away any weight to the story. And it was Claremont that recommend it in a really horrible Excalibur series.
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Sep 15, 2016 18:46
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Good it was a bad story.
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Sep 15, 2016 18:57
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Didn't Austen retcon it with the Xorn brothers?
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Sep 15, 2016 19:20
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Xorn being a ball of all the mutant powers M-day took away from spaaaaaaaaaaace is way more interesting than all that stupid Magneto poo poo.
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Sep 15, 2016 19:28
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Rhyno posted:Making it not Magneto takes away any weight to the story. And it was Claremont that recommend it in a really horrible Excalibur series. Dario the Wop posted:Didn't Austen retcon it with the Xorn brothers?
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Sep 15, 2016 19:43
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Mr Hootington posted:Over 1600 comic series if you exclude Star Wars. I kinda want to check out the original Marvel Star Wars comic for novelty's sake. I have one issue of it that my Mom had, and I remember it being really weird. Edge & Christian posted:I don't know how they organize the issues on Marvel Unlimited, but after Sentry 1-5 there were a series of one-shots that finish the story, it's like Sentry/Hulk, Sentry/X-Men, Sentry/Spider-Man, etc culminating in Sentry/Void which is the actual conclusion to the mini-series. I'll look up a read order and get around to it then.
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Sep 15, 2016 20:24
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Dario the Wop posted:Didn't Austen retcon it with the Xorn brothers? I think Magneto showed up in New Excalibur before Austen's story.
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Sep 15, 2016 20:40
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Elsa Bloodstone should join A-force permanently.
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Sep 15, 2016 20:46
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And regarding Magneto/Xorn, IIRC there was dialogue in New Avengers and maybe YA: Children's Crusade wherein it was specifically stated that Scarlet Witch's reality powers made Xorn into Magneto.
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Sep 15, 2016 22:04
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A.o.D. posted:I fukken love the Nextwave censorship skulls. I'm pretty sure Monica did this in Ultimates and it was just as awesome.
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Sep 15, 2016 22:05
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The Captain recently showed up in Nova and did it there, too 
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Sep 15, 2016 22:14
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Roth posted:I kinda want to check out the original Marvel Star Wars comic for novelty's sake. I have one issue of it that my Mom had, and I remember it being really weird. A lot of Marvel's '80s output is, in retrospect, really weird. Jim Shooter's office structure turned the whole thing into a simmering cauldron of resentment, to hear guys like Claremont and Priest tell it, and it was reflected in the books.
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Sep 15, 2016 22:31
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Dario the Wop posted:Didn't Austen retcon it with the Xorn brothers? No, Claremont did, like immediately after Morrison left, and somehow we wound up with the "Xorn is Magneto and then dies" end result being that both Xorn and Magneto are different guys and both alive.
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Sep 16, 2016 04:27
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Toxxupation posted:(why is Cassandra Nova in Ernst's body and helping save the future of mutantkind?) A lot of Here Comes Tomorrow (which I agree didn't really work) was playing out the strings of a bunch of characters/plots (Ernst/Nova, the Phoenixes, Sublime/Kick) in a way to wrap things up somewhat prematurely. Morrison was initially planning on sticking around for some time past Planet X, but the orders came down on high that they wanted the X-Men back to a more standard "adults are superheroes fighting supervillains while wearing costumes and I guess have some students around but bring things back to the classic dynamic" and Morrison tried writing plot outlines for this status quo and just got bored and dispirited. But subsequent writers brought back Cassandra Nova as a villain and had her actually stuck in an isolation tank, not walking around as Ernst, so now Ernst is just Ernst and will never be Cassandra Nova until someone decides that's what they want. Speaking of rapid Morrison retcons, the Xorn/Magneto comics all basically come out in the span of a few months and were clearly worked on in some level of collaboration between Austen and Claremont. Uncanny X-Men #442-443: Chuck Austen writes a mop-up two-parter with Xavier and company taking Magneto back to Genosha to give him a "proper burial" and Polaris making a big Magneto/Xavier tribute statue and everyone basically going "man who knows what was up with Magneto and Wolverine is surely sad that he was forced to kill his buddy and that bad man who killed everyone in New York isn't THE MAGNETO WE ALL KNEW AND LOVED, but RIP Magneto" Excalibur (2004): This was clearly in the works at the same time since it came out the month before, Claremont launches a new series where at the end of the first issue it's revealed Magneto is alive and has been hanging out in the ruins of Genosha the whole time NXM was happening and both he and Xavier are like "so uh who is this corpse that's supposed to be me? Who knows? Weird. Anyway, let's move on." (No Longer New) X-Men #157: Austen starts this story the same month Excalibur launches. The gang detects a mutant in China and OH NO IT'S XORN! Except it's Xorn's brother Xorn. Xorn tells everyone that his brother Xorn was always crazy and then got hooked on Kick/Sublime and must have thought he was Magneto. Then he explains that his brother has a star for a brain but he has a black hole for a brain and he disappears into a black hole from his brain never to be mentioned again, mostly. A couple of years later in House of M it is heavily implied that yeah, the Xorn stuff is all Wanda warping reality to bring her dad back and the weirdness of the explanation is down to her efforts. And then after House of M there was the Collective in New Avengers, which was like a big ball of mutant powers that got sucked out of people by Wanda and was sentient and the dominant mind in that ball was Xorn, but which Xorn? We may never know! Edge & Christian fucked around with this message at 14:22 on Sep 16, 2016 |
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Sep 16, 2016 14:20
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Edge & Christian posted:Uncanny X-Men #442-443: Chuck Austen writes a mop-up two-parter with Xavier and company taking Magneto back to Genosha to give him a "proper burial" and Polaris making a big Magneto/Xavier tribute statue and everyone basically going "man who knows what was up with Magneto and Wolverine is surely sad that he was forced to kill his buddy and that bad man who killed everyone in New York isn't THE MAGNETO WE ALL KNEW AND LOVED, but RIP Magneto" Do you mean Magneto or Jean there? I remember that issue, and it has a bit where Wolverine tries to trash the giant Magneto statue they've built (which was essentially the giant statue of Bender they built in that one Futurama episode where Bender becomes a pharaoh) and rants about how Magneto was a bully, a murderer and a terrorist and how he had no respect for Magneto and never will.
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Sep 16, 2016 15:24
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Didn't Cassandra get retconned into an outer space monster ghost before she even ended up (not) inhabiting Ernst?
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Sep 16, 2016 15:40
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The outer space monster ghost, "mummudrai," was what the Shi'ar called creatures like Cassandra Nova. She was always that thing. Then Emma Frost tricked her into inhabiting the protoplasmic alien shapeshifter, "Stuff," who eventually became Ernst. Or, rather, Ernst was always Cassandra Nova. The only retcon that happened was that Ernst stopped being Cassandra Nova some time after Morrison's run. Whedon's fault. Legitly.
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Sep 16, 2016 16:22
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Oh so all that nonsense in the bad x- run was an actual thing before that run? Talking about demon bear vs evil twins of people.
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Sep 16, 2016 18:43
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Wheat Loaf posted:Do you mean Magneto or Jean there? I remember that issue, and it has a bit where Wolverine tries to trash the giant Magneto statue they've built (which was essentially the giant statue of Bender they built in that one Futurama episode where Bender becomes a pharaoh) and rants about how Magneto was a buly, a murderer and a terrorist and how he had no respect for Magneto and never will.
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Sep 16, 2016 18:58
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Edge & Christian posted:I meant Magneto but I am probably misremembering and conflating things. I haven't revisited any of that immediately-post-Morrison mop-up stuff since it came out, and it all was dumb and made me mad over a decade ago. Wolverine's "aww bub Magneto ain't so bad bub" stuff may have been post-Xorn reveal or also potentially completely in my head or in some dumb annual back-up, who knows. I think I might be mixing up issues. I believe there's one issue which takes place during Morrison's run after Magneto is seemingly killed but before Xorn appears, where they all go to Genosha and Polaris is there, the big Pharoah Bender statue of Magneto shows up broadcasting his last testament out into space. That sounds like the one you were talking about. Then there's another trip to Genosha for his funeral after the Planet X storyline, where Wolverine flips out about how much he hated Magneto, Polaris shows up again with Wanda and Pietro and reveals definitively that she is in fact Magneto's daughter. I reckon the latter must have been a Chuck Austen one.
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Sep 16, 2016 19:06
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I hope Giruhiru comes back to Gwenpool soon.
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Sep 16, 2016 19:21
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I think we both were conflating things Wheat Loaf but the sequence appears to be: New X-Men 114: Giant Sentinel wipes out Genosha, presumably killing Magneto, giant Sentinel wreckage looms over ruins (Morrison) [Xorn appears] New X-Men 132: Memorial service for Magneto (presumed dead) where everyone is kind of nice to him, Polaris sculpts Sentinel ruin into giant statue of Magneto (Morrison) [Xorn reveals himself to be Magneto, wrecks shop, is killed by Wolverine] Uncanny X-Men 443: Second memorial service for Magneto, Xavier trying to be nice, Wolverine being super mad at Magneto, claws the hell out of a giant statue to "ruin" it, Polaris does a whammy on it a second time to make it a dual Xavier/Magneto statue. [Magneto is revealed to be alive] I think the Wolverine "aww, it's just Magneto" speech is during Magneto's rehab period during Dark Reign maybe?
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Sep 16, 2016 20:14
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I think that looks about right.
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Sep 16, 2016 20:33
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Monsters Unleashed details and interview. http://www.ew.com/article/2016/09/16/monsters-unleashed-marvel-crossover?xid=entertainment-weekly_socialflow_twitter quote:if you’re worried we’ll forget one, don’t be afraid to tweet at us @Marvel using the hashtag #MonstersUnleashed.” I hope you all do your part by spamming "Godzilla"
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Sep 16, 2016 22:25
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I don't remember the last time a Marvel event was this simple.
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Sep 16, 2016 22:39
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Teenage Fansub posted:Monsters Unleashed details and interview. This event looks good? *head explodes scanners style*
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Sep 16, 2016 22:42
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Mr Hootington posted:This event looks good? ew.com posted:
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Sep 16, 2016 23:07
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i don't have the goon hatred for greg land.
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Sep 16, 2016 23:51
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| # ? May 17, 2024 07:26 |
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I don't even know who that is. Though I'm already sold on the idea. I think these kinds of events where all the heroes are pulling together are a bit more fun than the Civil War type.
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Sep 17, 2016 00:00
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