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Schwarzwald posted:I need to rewatch the Ewok movies. They're awful. I loved them as a child, because ewoks rule, but with the Xmas Special they form the insane/terrible trilogy.
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Sep 24, 2016 21:04
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PriorMarcus posted:I'm still hoping Rey is a Kenobi from an affair he had on Tattoine. I was thinking she could be his grand daughter. Kenobi did have a romance thing in the clone war tv show. Zoran posted:it just means we'd hear that Ben or Sheev hosed some rando at some point and then ditched her. I think it was a mandalorian warrior woman (so not some rando) and she was murdered by a sith (so Ben didn't ditch her).
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Sep 24, 2016 21:13
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spacetoaster posted:I was thinking she could be his grand daughter. Yeah, that romance is great from a Canon standpoint. From a Legends standpoint it's a shame that it's a rehash of his romance with Siri from the Jedi Apprentice books
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Sep 24, 2016 21:15
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Oh no, not the beloved Siri from the Jedi Apprentice books. How did anyone cope.
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Sep 24, 2016 21:32
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jivjov posted:Yeah, that romance is great from a Canon standpoint. From a Legends standpoint it's a shame that it's a rehash of his romance with Siri from the Jedi Apprentice books I don't have any issues if it turns out Rey is a Kenobi. Isn't Star Wars a big cycle anyway? An old kenobi taught a young skywalker and now an old skywalker will teach a young kenobi.
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Sep 24, 2016 21:48
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spacetoaster posted:I don't have any issues if it turns out Rey is a Kenobi. Isn't Star Wars a big cycle anyway? An old kenobi taught a young skywalker and now an old skywalker will teach a young kenobi. Her being a Kenobi would certainly be more interesting than her just being Skywalker v.3; that's for sure.
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Sep 24, 2016 22:02
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jivjov posted:Her being a Kenobi would certainly be more interesting than her just being Skywalker v.3; that's for sure. Why? What is more interesting about that? What sort of legacy would Rey have to struggle with from that? "Your granddad was one of the most celebrated Jedi of the old Order, though he was kind of a dick to Luke, but it all worked out anyway. Also, hardly anyone alive remembers interacting with the man for more than a day because he was last prominent 50 years ago and all the records were wiped. Good luck!" Jewmanji posted:This is all true except Luke is already literally Palpatine's grandson so Rey is his great granddaughter, so you can have it both ways. Fair enough. spacetoaster posted:I think it was a mandalorian warrior woman (so not some rando) and she was murdered by a sith (so Ben didn't ditch her). This definitely falls in the domain of "some rando." Schwarzwald posted:The expectation that Rey's parents must be someone notable kind of reminds me of a kid with a single parent telling himself that his Dad is secretly a special agent working for the government, and that's why he's never around to be a father. It seems depressingly naive and more than a little sad. Sure, except for the part where the villains recognize Rey as Someone Important, she has the same set of skills as Luke and Anakin, she inherits their lightsaber, she has visions of Luke's home when she can't sleep at night, and she is made special in the story because she has even more raw Force aptitude than Anakin's grandson. Zoran fucked around with this message at 23:16 on Sep 24, 2016 |
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Sep 24, 2016 23:07
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Cnut the Great posted:Yoda was originally supposed to have a scene in ESB demonstrating his amazing combat prowess (against a pair of remotes he's using to train Luke), so that it would create even more of a wonderful contradiction when he tells Luke that combat prowess is not really what makes someone great. He was based on Takashi Shimura's character from Seven Samurai, who's basically the embodiment of the same concept--an aged samurai possessed of a great warrior's skill but who is truly great because of his war-weary wisdom. The only reason there wasn't such a scene was because Yoda was a puppet. The issue with Yoda in the prequels is that his presence is muddled. Luke's whole story arc throughout the trilogy is rejecting his childish fantasies of being a hero and accepting the power that comes with death. His victory comes from being willing to die. Yoda's role is stark and clear. He is the personification of a power unrooted in the physical. Him being humbled in the events of the prequel or him being a lightsaber wielding warrior in the prequels is less of the problem than what is the purpose of him being in the prequels to begin with besides a vague sense of need for him. Like a lot of things in the prequels, the vague imagining of Yoda becoming a humble old man over centuries versus what the prequel offers just seems a lot more magical.
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Sep 25, 2016 04:38
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Timeless Appeal posted:The issue isn't really misunderstanding Yoda in ESB so much as misunderstanding what's not working in the prequels. Why's that a problem?
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Sep 25, 2016 04:48
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Timeless Appeal posted:what is the purpose of him being in the prequels to begin with besides a vague sense of need for him To represent the stature (heh) of the old Order, but also the limits of its power? To reinforce the theme that obsessing over the future is extremely counterproductive because it causes you to miss things that are happening right in front of you? Yoda is a mirror of Anakin on this front, but where Anakin's scary visions drive him to the point of desperation, the dark clouds in Yoda's senses disable him so much that he can't even recognize that the poor kid's having a breakdown four feet away from him. Zoran fucked around with this message at 05:13 on Sep 25, 2016 |
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Sep 25, 2016 05:05
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Zoran posted:Why? What is more interesting about that? What sort of legacy would Rey have to struggle with from that? I'm with you. That only means anything to the audience, not really any of the characters. Other than Luke, I guess. In general, the thought that she's Luke's daughter, or Obi Wan's granddaughter, or whatever other thing seems irrelevant because it means so little to the story. Revealing Luke to be Anakin's son mattered because Darth Vader was a primary antagonist. If Rey's the great granddaughter of Qui Gon or some bullshit, who cares? I like the theory that Rey is Kylo Ren's sister, because the proposed back story is that he saved her life and left her on Jakku because he couldn't bring himself to kill her. It's meaningful not because she's Important To The Canon, but because she relates to the actual principal characters in these movies. If that's not the case, I'd rather she was nobody. A complete rando who matters because she's skilled, not because she's someone's kid.
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Sep 25, 2016 11:47
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turtlecrunch posted:Rebels S3 premieres tonight at 8:30PM EST, not sure I understand the timing of Saturday morning cartoons anymore. And it was great. https://gfycat.com/AdorablePinkAzurevasesponge Thread for it over at TVIV: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3790149
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Sep 25, 2016 14:43
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Xealot posted:I'm with you. That only means anything to the audience, not really any of the characters. Other than Luke, I guess. You do know cousins are also related to each other right? And a major conflict in TFA was struggling over whose family legacy the main bad guy should accept? Rey as Luke's daughter would literally have the exact same decision to make because she's descended from the same people (give or take).
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Sep 25, 2016 14:47
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Zoran posted:This definitely falls in the domain of "some rando." Rey as the child of Obi-Wan and Satine Kryze would be hella interesting if she didn't die during The Clone Wars.
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Sep 25, 2016 15:29
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Why is that interesting? It just seems like there's countervailing forces at work between the casting of TFA and everyone's expectations for Rey. The casting evinced a willingness to embrace some level of egalitarianism on the part of the creators of the film, I would think that part of the message being sent both outside of the universe with the casting and in-universe is that monarchies and patriarchies are dead- it doesn't matter where you came from, it matters what you do. Having a divine right to lead movements for freedom is so outdated in the gestalt. Jewmanji fucked around with this message at 15:42 on Sep 25, 2016 |
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Sep 25, 2016 15:37
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Jewmanji posted:Why is that interesting? The real answer is that the producers were free to have a racially diverse set of actresses audition for Rey because her mother had not been cast yet. Notice that they crowed about how progressive their process was in casting Rey, but not for the lead of Rogue One. The filmmakers probably don't want to endorse the idea that one's birth alone makes them fit to lead, and that competes with the impulse to show us characters who are personally connected with the old heroes. But I think all of the main characters in TFA thread the needle on this. Finn comes from literal namelessness and still saves the day. Kylo is born to royalty and yet is a broken mess. Rey is probably Luke's daughter, but she grows up completely alone and becomes who she is without knowing of her heritage.
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Sep 25, 2016 15:56
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Jewmanji posted:Why is that interesting? Rey having a "divine right to lead" would fall directly in line with the goals of Princess Leia and the Resistance
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Sep 25, 2016 16:57
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Jewmanji posted:Why is that interesting? The Mandalore saga was one of my favorites out of the Clone Wars and it was one of the few glimpses of Obi-Wan not being an inherently lovely person. He claimed he would have dropped the Jedi for her, if she wanted, and her staunch commitment to neutrality and rejecting Republic/Jedi assistance putting down the Deathwatch insurrection could draw some interesting parallels to Luke throwing away Jedi and Sith dogma. Plus its a potential excuse to bring the dark saber to the big screen: 
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Sep 25, 2016 16:59
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Filthy Casual posted:The Mandalore saga was one of my favorites out of the Clone Wars and it was one of the few glimpses of Obi-Wan not being an inherently lovely person. He claimed he would have dropped the Jedi for her, if she wanted, and her staunch commitment to neutrality and rejecting Republic/Jedi assistance putting down the Deathwatch insurrection could draw some interesting parallels to Luke throwing away Jedi and Sith dogma. Plus its a potential excuse to bring the dark saber to the big screen: I get that, but for someone who hasn't read the book you're referencing, and without the backstory, what would be interesting about it? I'm not trying to be obtuse or hip, I'm legitimately curious about what the implications for Ep VIII would be and why you find that interesting. Like, what would it mean for Rey? It doesn't seem to me that it adds anything but trivia to the story.
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Sep 25, 2016 19:21
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Jewmanji posted:I get that, but for someone who hasn't read the book you're referencing, and without the backstory, what would be interesting about it? I'm not trying to be obtuse or hip, I'm legitimately curious about what the implications for Ep VIII would be and why you find that interesting. Like, what would it mean for Rey? It doesn't seem to me that it adds anything but trivia to the story. Cartoon, not book, but anyway - If they connected Rey to the Mandalorian civil war storyline from Clone Wars, they'd have to bring some other elements of that story into the movies in order to give it meaning. Her being descended from some rando from a cartoon is trivia; her being descended from someone who got hosed over trying to be a pacifist and remain neutral in a larger conflict could drive a film to some interesting places if included.
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Sep 25, 2016 19:35
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Filthy Casual posted:Rey as the child of Obi-Wan and Satine Kryze would be hella interesting if she didn't die during The Clone Wars. I would think she'd have to be the child of their child.
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Sep 25, 2016 19:46
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Cnut the Great posted:Yoda was originally supposed to have a scene in ESB demonstrating his amazing combat prowess (against a pair of remotes he's using to train Luke), so that it would create even more of a wonderful contradiction when he tells Luke that combat prowess is not really what makes someone great. He was based on Takashi Shimura's character from Seven Samurai, who's basically the embodiment of the same concept--an aged samurai possessed of a great warrior's skill but who is truly great because of his war-weary wisdom. The only reason there wasn't such a scene was because Yoda was a puppet. You're actually bending the narrative, using evidence that was deliberately removed for storytelling purposes, to fit something that didn't happen just so your mind can rationalize how loving bad the prequels were. Maybe you should see a therapist, I dunno. You know C-3PO was originally supposed to be a sleezy used car salesman, maybe we should re-evaluate his character now? Oh wait, C-3PO and Yoda were deliberately portrayed the way they were, and whatever original intention there was does not matter, and will never matter. Maybe Moby Dick was supposed to be porno, but it isn't, so we don't think about it as such. God why are Star Wars spergs so loving dumb. The prequels/EU really ARE the worst thing to happen to star wars because now we have pretentious neckbeards looking for things where there are none. Phi230 fucked around with this message at 21:34 on Sep 25, 2016 |
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Sep 25, 2016 21:32
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Phi230 posted:God why are Star Wars spergs so loving dumb. The prequels/EU really ARE the worst thing to happen to star wars because now we have pretentious neckbeards looking for things where there are none. Actually, the prequels are good. I don't know why you bring up the EU, though.
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Sep 25, 2016 21:46
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The EU (both Legends and Canon) is also good.
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Sep 25, 2016 21:49
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So when they made EU into Legends, what was the last thing that happened to Luke etc? (I assume they aren't allowed to make stories in the Legends universe anymore)
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Sep 25, 2016 21:53
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Spacebump posted:So when they made EU into Legends, what was the last thing that happened to Luke etc? (I assume they aren't allowed to make stories in the Legends universe anymore) He died.
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Sep 25, 2016 21:58
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Spacebump posted:So when they made EU into Legends, what was the last thing that happened to Luke etc? (I assume they aren't allowed to make stories in the Legends universe anymore) Luke also appears as a ghost in the Legacy comics, which take place about 140 years after the movies and are pretty good. He spends his on-screen time harassing his good-for-nothing descendant into being a better person.
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Sep 25, 2016 22:04
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I just wanna say that I actually hope Luke doesn't die by the end of episode 9 I like Luke
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Sep 25, 2016 22:06
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Phi230 posted:
Why do people liking the prequels bother you so much? Are "Star Wars spergs" really making your life worse? Before you accuse me of being a prequel fan, I've only watched AOTC and ROTS. I thought the former was boring and the latter was decent, but not that great.
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Sep 25, 2016 22:13
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Spacebump posted:So when they made EU into Legends, what was the last thing that happened to Luke etc? (I assume they aren't allowed to make stories in the Legends universe anymore) Not counting post-death appearances in Legacy, Luke was pretty heavily psychically/spiritually wounded fighting an eldritch abomination, and they seemed to really be committing to the idea of him stepping back from a more active role and doing essentially what he ends up doing in Canon; seeking out old Jedi Lore and whatnot.
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Sep 25, 2016 23:14
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jivjov posted:Not counting post-death appearances in Legacy, Luke was pretty heavily psychically/spiritually wounded fighting an eldritch abomination, and they seemed to really be committing to the idea of him stepping back from a more active role and doing essentially what he ends up doing in Canon; seeking out old Jedi Lore and whatnot. Wounded by a TvTropes entry? Terrible enough, I suppose.
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Sep 25, 2016 23:31
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Phi230 posted:God why are Star Wars spergs so loving dumb. The prequels/EU really ARE the worst thing to happen to star wars because now we have pretentious neckbeards looking for things where there are none. You seem very badly confused. That post is about something that clearly is there: historical documentation of the making of Empire Strikes Back. It's showing that the prequel films make use of unused concepts from making of Ep. 5, in the same way that (for example) Prometheus employs unused concepts from the making of Alien. That's a reading informed by historical and cultural context, which it is obviously not related to 'expanded universe' plot continuity stuff. It's the very opposite, even. Also, that's not what 'pretentious' means.
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Sep 26, 2016 00:12
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All right, all right: I'm watching Return of the Jedi on Spike or TNT or whatever, and Han and pals just pass the Death Star II with the stolen clearance code. Does Imperial traffic control just assume the ship is totally fine, and doesn't bother to track them until they land? They don't radio ahead to the bunker on Endor to expect a ship?
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Sep 26, 2016 02:20
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Red posted:All right, all right: Dude... it's a trap
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Sep 26, 2016 02:28
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Red posted:All right, all right: It almost seems too good to be true.
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Sep 26, 2016 02:29
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Jerkface posted:Dude... it's a trap See, I'm assuming Piett and the naval command aren't in on the gag. Remember during the space battle, the one guy was like, "WTF? We're not gonna join the fight?". Then Piett shrugged and was like, "I dunno, the Emperor is doing some kind of poo poo". Then the superlaser goes off and starts blowing up cruisers.
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Sep 26, 2016 02:31
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Vader literally says he'll deal with them himself, why is this even a question.
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Sep 26, 2016 03:07
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Red posted:All right, all right: Vader said let them land.
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Sep 26, 2016 03:11
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EX-GAIJIN AT LAST posted:Vader literally says he'll deal with them himself, why is this even a question. Until Vader stepped in to ask about the shuttle, Piett didn't give them a second thought.
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Sep 26, 2016 03:21
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Red posted:Until Vader stepped in to ask about the shuttle, Piett didn't give them a second thought. The sequence of events makes your question moot, is what I'm saying. He hadn't even cleared them to land yet by the time Vader intervenes, so of course after that he lets Vader do whatever he's doing, and stays well clear of it. Wouldn't you? I mean your explicitly evil boss tells you "don't worry about it, this is my business" and you're going to keep tabs on it and report it along anyway? Hell no.
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Sep 26, 2016 04:12
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