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Why cookie Rocket posted:Back when DS9 came on and I was an angry teenage atheist I wasn't annoyed by the existence of wormhole aliens worshipped as gods but I was very annoyed at how boring and parochial the Bajorans were. I've mellowed out on it quite a bit but I'm pretty sure I'd be a lot more sympathetic towards Israel if I hadn't sat through so many "but you guyyyyyys!" Kira shitfits as a kid. The Bajorans aren't particularly a Jew analogue, they're more like Indians or Sri Lankans nerdman42 posted:Having seen only about half of both shows, what's generally considered more "anti" Star Trek: Farscape or Babylon 5 B5 is more "Star Trek with a fourth act", it goes into consequences a lot.
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Oct 1, 2016 16:57
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CharlieWhiskey posted:Do they ever explain Worf's sash? Are those his Klingon Scout merit badges? I think it has something to do with his house. When Martok adopts him in DS9, he adds another thing to it.
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Oct 1, 2016 16:58
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It shows you're part of a Klingon Great House, different houses have different emblems pinned to them. Basically, Worf's Klingon nobility so Starfleet let him wear whatever.
MikeJF fucked around with this message at 17:09 on Oct 1, 2016 |
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Oct 1, 2016 17:03
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I don't think they ever explained why his sash changed from a woven material that had the last couple of rows pulled out of it to the Chewbacca looking one that he wore for the rest of the shows.
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Oct 1, 2016 17:30
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Lowen SoDium posted:I don't think they ever explained why his sash changed from a woven material that had the last couple of rows pulled out of it to the Chewbacca looking one that he wore for the rest of the shows. His gold one was one from TOS and started falling apart halfway through season one. They got tired of repairing it every other week so they built that new one.
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Oct 1, 2016 17:33
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The same reason why Geordie sometimes wore that TOS karate maintenance uniform.
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Oct 1, 2016 17:35
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Thanks to the internet, I learned that sash thing is called a Baldric and oh god kill me
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Oct 1, 2016 17:52
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FilthyImp posted:Thanks to the internet, I learned that sash thing is called a Baldric and oh god kill me That's the name of the actual thing, it's not a Star Trek term
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Oct 1, 2016 17:58
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FilthyImp posted:Thanks to the internet, I learned that sash thing is called a Baldric and oh god kill me That's a very cunning name.
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Oct 1, 2016 18:16
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Worf should have slung his bat'leth in his baldric, that would have been rad. How many belts do you suppose he ruined by drawing his mek'leth?
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Oct 1, 2016 18:19
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Star Trek is very humanist even now that Roddenberry is dead and buried, and religions such as they are in Star Trek tend to be Actually Real.
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Oct 1, 2016 18:54
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MrL_JaKiri posted:That's the name of the actual thing, it's not a Star Trek term In the classic form of geeklearnin. Like remember when you dropped algorithm in Math class during 7th grade and everyone was like "the gently caress you learn that?" And you just sat there like "b-b-but Data used it to..." And just slunk away.
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Oct 1, 2016 19:59
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FilthyImp posted:True but I learned about it through Stars Trek. No because non of the science in star trek is real.
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Oct 1, 2016 21:40
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So on the 50th anniversary date last month I decided I was going to start a rewatch of the whole Trek franchise in chronological order. That means starting with Enterprise, which I actually haven't seen before. (So I guess not technically a "rewatch"..) I'm pacing it out so I'm only doing a couple per week, with the goal of finishing ENT just before Discovery starts. While I'm watching everything no matter how bad it is, my wife who was a TNG and DS9 fan and is a lot more skeptical of this whole thing is only tuning in for "the good ones." (At least, for ENT, relatively speaking.) Any recommendations here for specific episodes I should have on the hit or miss lists? I can also post impressions as we go if that's a sort of thing people want.
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Oct 1, 2016 23:04
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I'm not even sure if doing it the way you are is a good idea....there's a bunch of episodes in ENT that only work if you've seen other stuff: -Regeneration directly takes from First Contact -That Ferengi episode otherwise would probably not make as much sense -The Augments arc is more useful if she's watched Space Seed and WoK -In A Mirror, Darkly would probably come off weird if you've never seen a single MU episode before There are other episodes but these are the ones that come to mind. It's not a deal breaker at all but I would start with TOS.
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Oct 1, 2016 23:13
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Other than the Ferengi episode, all of those stand pretty well on their own. It might even make for a fun, cheeky experience when she gets to "Mirror, Mirror." Also, if she remembers then Q Who and Best of Both Worlds might be extra fun. "Hey, those are the evil machine guys from that one episode!"
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Oct 1, 2016 23:30
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FlamingLiberal posted:There are other episodes but these are the ones that come to mind. It's not a deal breaker at all but I would start with TOS. ENT and most of Voyager are the only things I (and she) haven't seen before, so that's not really an issue for us. If we were first time viewers for everything I wouldn't recommend it either, but it seemed an OK way to do a rewatch. macnbc fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Oct 1, 2016 |
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Oct 1, 2016 23:37
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Oh ok disregard that then
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Oct 1, 2016 23:58
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macnbc posted:So on the 50th anniversary date last month I decided I was going to start a rewatch of the whole Trek franchise in chronological order. That means starting with Enterprise Teeeeechnically, if you're going chronologically, you'd want to start with Death Wish, where Quinn takes Voyager to the Big Bang for a minute. And then I guess All Good Things, where Picard is present for the origin of life on Earth, again thanks to Q fuckery. Next up I think would be Time's Arrow (19th century), then The City on the Edge of Forever (1930), then Carbon Creek (1950s), then Tomorrow is Yesterday and Assignment: Earth (both 1960s, not sure what order those two would go in.) Then Star Trek IV (1980s), then Future's End (1990s), then 11:59 (2000), then Past Tense (2020s?), then First Contact (2060s?). And THEN you can get started on Enterprise. (And that's all off the top of my head and I'm sure I've forgotten a few.)
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Oct 2, 2016 00:04
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You have to put the DS9 Ferengi time travel episode in where they go back to 1947.
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Oct 2, 2016 01:41
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What if someone did a Chronologically Lost but for Star Trek.
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Oct 2, 2016 01:49
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FlamingLiberal posted:You have to put the DS9 Ferengi time travel episode in where they go back to 1947. Good catch, can't believe I forgot about Little Green Men. Also, I think they did a World War II thing in one of the big chunks of Enterprise I didn't watch, but for all I know that was like a parallel universe or an alien holodeck or something and doesn't count. Cojawfee posted:What if someone did a Chronologically Lost but for Star Trek. And now you've got me wondering. If you took someone totally unfamiliar with Star Trek and showed them the scenes in absolute chronological order, starting with that minute or so of Voyager in the Big Bang, how long would it take them to figure out what the hell is even going on? I suppose you'd need multiple screens to watch Cause and Effect. And the ending of The Naked Time would have to be played backwards.
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Oct 2, 2016 02:02
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Powered Descent posted:Good catch, can't believe I forgot about Little Green Men. It was a parallel timeline, so yeah doesn't count.
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Oct 2, 2016 02:07
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MrL_JaKiri posted:The Bajorans aren't particularly a Jew analogue, they're more like Indians or Sri Lankans
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Oct 2, 2016 02:34
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Good sci-fi isn't 1:1 and instead a commentary on the human condition. Star Trek is generally pretty good at this but especially so in the case of DS9.
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Oct 2, 2016 02:40
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I once heard it described quite crudely as "Bajorans are space-Jews. Ferengi are space-Jewish-stereotypes." But, yeah. I agree with Zurui. Go overly allegorical and you lose the weight.
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Oct 2, 2016 05:57
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After rewatching The Royale a) it's not as bad as I remember it being and b) Jill Jacobson is super cute.
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Oct 2, 2016 08:56
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Big Mean Jerk posted:It's still CBS, so none of this will ever happen no matter how hard Fuller may fight for it. It's the same reason you can pretty much guarantee the gay character will be a woman. You wanna bet? It's not the 90s anymore. "Straight gay" characters (IE gay men, but not campy, sexy, or weird) have been showing up in sitcoms and dramas all over the dial for years and shows like Modern Family have gotten lots of buzz for including gay main characters (never mind that said characters are breathtakingly boring). Also, Fuller is a gay man, so he's no doubt aware of the "sexy lesbians are fine" double standard and probably won't let them foist it on him. He's promised gay characters and by Alien-God we're going to get them, of both genders. I'd put money on it. Maybe even some trans folks, who loving knows? Transparent is big right now. Muslims acting like Muslims though? ....eeeeh.  They don't even really have Christians doing that.MrL_JaKiri posted:The Bajorans aren't particularly a Jew analogue, they're more like Indians or Sri Lankans Yeah, the writers were very clear that they don't stand in for any specific oppressed group. I always sort of thought of them as space Irish because there are parallels in the use of religion as a rallying point, the presence of both pacifists and terrorists in the resistance movement, and the quest to reclaim a "stolen" history. Obviously that fits Israel/Palestine pretty well too and fits with the use of the word "occupation" (remember, both the Second Intifada and the conflict in Northern Ireland were on American's minds at the time -- Sri Lanka should have been, but wasn't really), but while Bajor's occupation resembles all sorts of imperialism (and none perfectly), it matches some more than others. Bajor wasn't a far flung colony of some distant power, but rather was conquered and exploited by powerful neighbors. They weren't a settler colony, but rather were used for their labor and natural resources (the only Cardies we hear about actually living on Bajor were military and manor lord types). So far that still fits with lots of different examples, but one thing I find interesting is it's never stated that the Cardies were more culturally or technologically advanced than the Bajorans (the whole solar sail thing seemed to prove the opposite), rather they seem to have just been more aggressive, numerous, and perhaps, better organized. In some ways, the Cardies are more like the Nazis or Soviets in Europe than they are like "classic" colonialists.
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Oct 2, 2016 09:12
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Duckbag posted:You wanna bet? It's not the 90s anymore. Modern Family and Transparent are on ABC and Amazon, respectively, and CBS skews more conservative. Their biggest sitcom has a character who's running joke for the entire series so far is how he may or may not be gay and all his "effeminate" mannerisms are played for laughs. If we do get a gay male series regular on Discovery, I wouldn't be surprised if we never actually meet his SO or see them kiss or show much affection beyond holding hands. Hopefully I'm wrong but you never know
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Oct 2, 2016 09:23
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Yeah, CBS is definitely catered for the olds and skews conservative, but given that this show isn't a procedural or hacky sit com, I'd say they're already stepping outside their comfort zone with it. My thinking is that this streaming service is partly intended as a way for them to release shows that don't feel out-dated on arrival without alienating the fogies that make up their core TV audience. Will this fail miserably? Probably, but I think it does show that some of the suits are willing to experiment with appealing to the "knows how to use a computer" demographic, so there's reason to be hopeful.
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Oct 2, 2016 09:39
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Powered Descent posted:Teeeeechnically, if you're going chronologically, you'd want to start with Death Wish, where Quinn takes Voyager to the Big Bang for a minute. Technically yes but you'd have to do a lot of editing like the Chronologically Lost thing someone else mentioned and it wouldn't be terribly watchable. I'm going off the viewing guide posted here. One of the rules they use is that time travel episodes are placed by their "point of origin." This more or less keeps everything straight, though it moves the ENT finale into TNG, which I'm fine with. macnbc fucked around with this message at 14:00 on Oct 2, 2016 |
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Oct 2, 2016 12:52
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Duckbag posted:one thing I find interesting is it's never stated that the Cardies were more culturally or technologically advanced than the Bajorans (the whole solar sail thing seemed to prove the opposite), rather they seem to have just been more aggressive, numerous, and perhaps, better organized. In some ways, the Cardies are more like the Nazis or Soviets in Europe than they are like "classic" colonialists. Cardassia had transporters, and entire imperial fleet with ships that could destroy the whole planet, and superior hand weapons in addition to being more organized and experienced (Bajor can't have been the only exploited world the Cardassians occupied). The fact that the Cardassians are unified means that they are culturally and technologically superior to the divided Bajorans who used old hand-me downs to fight a losing geurilla war.
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Oct 2, 2016 16:38
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Modern Family and Transparent are on ABC and Amazon, respectively, and CBS skews more conservative. Their biggest sitcom has a character who's running joke for the entire series so far is how he may or may not be gay and all his "effeminate" mannerisms are played for laughs. But then you have The CW which is also owned by CBS. On The Flash, the police chief is married gay male. The Originals has a gay male character as part of the extended cast since the beginning and there was even a plot-line that featured it (standard star crossed lover type stuff since he was a vampire having a relationship with a werewolf.) The 100 has an interracial male gay couple living together. So, while it's not on CBS proper, neither is Discovery.
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Oct 2, 2016 16:47
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Duckbag posted:I find interesting is it's never stated that the Cardies were more culturally or technologically advanced than the Bajorans (the whole solar sail thing seemed to prove the opposite), rather they seem to have just been more aggressive, numerous, and perhaps, better organized. In some ways, the Cardies are more like the Nazis or Soviets in Europe than they are like "classic" colonialists. What? In duet, Dukat explicitly states that Cardassia was at least a century more advanced in every way when they discovered the Bajorans. This is basically his entire justification for the occupation to Sisko.
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Oct 2, 2016 23:12
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That's in Waltz. Duet is where Kira learns not to hate spoonheads any more.
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Oct 2, 2016 23:18
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Apollodorus posted:That's in Waltz. Duet is where Kira learns not to hate spoonheads any more. Waltz, duet, foxtrot, tango, I don't Watch star wars to be reminded of my two left feet god damit! Baka-nin fucked around with this message at 23:28 on Oct 2, 2016 |
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Oct 2, 2016 23:25
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I thought it was cool there was a straight up alien dude on the bridge in TAS but now theres a cat lady who keeps purring and I'm regretting my pro alien stance.
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Oct 3, 2016 00:42
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Apollodorus posted:That's in Waltz. Duet is where Kira learns not to hate spoonheads any more. Until the next time the writers need her to hate them.
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Oct 3, 2016 01:02
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Why are we talking about what The Olds of CBS will think about a show that's airing exclusively on the internet?
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Oct 3, 2016 02:07
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I'm rewatching DS9 and I love how checking peoples' blood to see if they're a changeling never once works in the entirety of the series.
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Oct 3, 2016 02:23
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