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Kaine might actually win the sound bite wars. Like what good clip are you going to use from Pence? Something where he natters on and doesn't answer a question? Some of Kaine's stuff sounded pretty good and the back and forth where Pence tries to weasel out of Trump statements by saying he isn't a polished politician and Kaine quoted the bible might get some play.
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Oct 5, 2016 03:41
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Uranium 235 posted:I think this was a draw, or at least close enough that this really doesn't matter. It's about what I expected. VP debates never matter anyway
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Oct 5, 2016 03:41
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Unsatisfying debate with useless moderator left Kaine struggling to surface in Pence's steady stream of bullshit
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Oct 5, 2016 03:41
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I think Chris Matthews just said 'erogenous zones' and I need to go throw up, like, all the throw up.
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Oct 5, 2016 03:41
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Phimosissy posted:A push is a win in this case NBC News is calling out Kaine for talking over the moderator, and frankly, I can't blame them for doing that.
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Oct 5, 2016 03:41
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Unfortunately, I'm going to have to give the win to Pence. For all of his horrible policy positions and contradictions, he was more persuasive. He sold Trump's bullshit better than Kaine sold Clinton's policy. Kaine had some good points, but his rambling and interruptions made him look unprepared. Pence came off as more presidential, which is legitimately scary because he would be the Cheney to Trump's Bush.
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Oct 5, 2016 03:41
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ImpAtom posted:That was just a complete disaster for Kaine, Jesus. You keep saying this and keep ignoring that there was nothing he could do. Him being aggressive prevented Pence from just walking all over him with lies, and absent a competent moderator there's nothing more that he could do. Like what did you want him to do if the moderator will not fact-check live? Be nice and quiet and polite and turn it into a milquetoast "debate" that legitimizes Republican talking points and allows Pence to downplay Trump's stupidity?
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Oct 5, 2016 03:41
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I also thought Pence fumbled the abortion question at the end while Kaine was really successful at speaking from the heart, so hopefully that leaves a better lasting impression since that was how the debate ended.
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Oct 5, 2016 03:41
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Ugggghhhh Chris Matthews just said "erogenous zones" 
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Oct 5, 2016 03:41
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HootTheOwl posted:CNN is actually not poo poo. "Pence did well on style, but he refused to defend anything that Kaine accurately attributed to Trump" I take it back, they're at a lovely panel of undecided voters so turn left.
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Oct 5, 2016 03:42
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cravius posted:They do this in every debate with male moderators too bud Last debate Holt was able to interject enough for hillary and trump to acknowledge him. There was litterally a point where Elaine Quijano had to go "gentlemen?? GENTLEMEN??"
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Oct 5, 2016 03:42
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These CBS viewers responses about the debate are SCARY AS gently caress. They call Pence "eloquent" "calm" "collected" They say Kaine came off as "a crazy person" But the non-white people in the group hated Pence. I'm not surprised at all.
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Oct 5, 2016 03:42
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Canadian friend on the debate: [9:33 PM] Friend: Honestly, this debate has made me like neither of them [9:33 PM] iospace: :P [9:34 PM] Friend: Kaine's a better guy and all and is actually saying what I want to support [9:34 PM] Friend: But as a debate? bleh [9:34 PM] iospace: nods [9:34 PM] iospace: so no real winner then? [9:34 PM] Friend: Nah [9:35 PM] Friend: Why didn't Pence run for president. He seems like a much better figure for it than Trump by a huge margin [9:35 PM] iospace: ah [9:35 PM] Friend: Like, he stands for everything I absolultely don't believe in [9:35 PM] Friend: But he's got a bit more charisma/leadership to him, based on literally just this debate, than trump will ever have [9:36 PM] Friend: I also know he passed a poo poo load of awful laws for his state and is just immensely a lovely person [9:36 PM] Friend: so [9:36 PM] Friend: :| [9:36 PM] Friend: This debate should have never happened. [9:36 PM] iospace: so who do you think won then, if anyone? [9:36 PM] Friend: No one. Throw the night in the trash [9:36 PM] iospace: nods [9:37 PM] iospace: I'll trust your judgement, mostly because you're neutral here [9:40 PM] Friend: Basically it boils down to this. I never saw either of them speak before so I'm basing it entirely off this. Kaine should have just let Pence say his poo poo and and then picked it apart. The first half of the debate they were just constantly trying to butt in on each other but it always felt like Kaine looked worse for it. As for the subject matter of the debate it just kept feeling like they were trying to say everything but the question proposed by the moderator or what they were telling each other to defend. It was dumb and useless and no one should take anything away from tonight. e: switched to fixed tags. iospace fucked around with this message at 03:45 on Oct 5, 2016 |
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Oct 5, 2016 03:43
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That being said, Elaine Quijano did a good job moderating the debate. She kept them on topic and on time while managing to get them to move on when the time called for it.
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Oct 5, 2016 03:43
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Dork457 posted:Last debate Holt was able to interject enough for hillary and trump to acknowledge him. There was litterally a point where Elaine Quijano had to go "gentlemen?? GENTLEMEN??" women always gettin talked over
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Oct 5, 2016 03:43
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I swear I heard that "smallest Navy since 1916" during 2012. I assume that's going by sailors enlisted or active?
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Oct 5, 2016 03:43
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Pence looked pretty good there, but the attack ads will be numerous and belligerent.
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Oct 5, 2016 03:43
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Sensible Thursday posted:Ugggghhhh Chris Matthews just said "erogenous zones" loving WHY?!
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Oct 5, 2016 03:43
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Also I would hope that people who were willing to tune in and watch a vice presidential debate would recognize that Kaine repeatedly gave specific policy points to answer questions whereas Pence just said "great question, we have to do better on that, Clinton bad" over and over again, but I know that's not the case.
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Oct 5, 2016 03:43
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"Facts, which I know are important to journalists" -Chris Matthews on MSNBC
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Oct 5, 2016 03:43
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I only caught the last 2/3 of the debate and I was listening on the radio, but it sounded to me like Kaine was doing a good job. He knew that Spence's weak spot would be on defending the insane poo poo Trump says, and he'd have to either tell obvious lies on camera or not support Trump. Either if those will get massive airtime and many more eyeballs than this debate. I think it's a clear Kaine win.
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Oct 5, 2016 03:43
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Lamb Chowder posted:I swear I heard that "smallest Navy since 1916" during 2012. I assume that's going by sailors enlisted or active? Number of battleships.
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Oct 5, 2016 03:44
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WampaLord posted:NBC News is calling out Kaine for talking over the moderator, and frankly, I can't blame them for doing that. Any moderator who won't live fact check might as well not show up to the debate. You're literally worse than useless if you can't be bothered to do basic poo poo like that. Pence "won" this in the same way Romney "won" the first debate in 2012, by literally just straight up making up bullshit and relying on his opponent to be unable to do anything about it without sufficient independent fact-checking. It's a classic gish gallop and it works.
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Oct 5, 2016 03:44
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SamuraiFoochs posted:loving WHY?! He was talking about Kaine hitting all the "erogenous zones" of the Democratic party - minorities, abortion rights, etc. So yeah even grosser than you'd think.
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Oct 5, 2016 03:44
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Serge Painsbourg posted:That being said, Elaine Quijano did a good job moderating the debate. She kept them on topic and on time while managing to get them to move on when the time called for it. The gently caress
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Oct 5, 2016 03:44
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I'm nervous for Sunday... ...I don't want Ziggler to lose his career. I would give Pence a slight win here, but like others have said I don't think it's going to move the needle much between now and the next debate. If there's another Trump implosion/truth bomb in the next couple of days we'll forget this debate happened.
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Oct 5, 2016 03:44
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iospace posted:Canadian friend on the debate: There was certainly once or twice where Kaine would have been much better served by waiting for Pence to finish and then calmly pointing out how everything he said was contradicted by some Trump soundbite. Instead he kept interrupting Pence while Pence was loving up, which was annoying.
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Oct 5, 2016 03:44
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Lamb Chowder posted:I swear I heard that "smallest Navy since 1916" during 2012. I assume that's going by sailors enlisted or active? Probably by number or tonnage of ships. Which of course is totally beside the point because a. the world has changed in the last 100 years and a fuckhuge navy is no longer necessary for national defense, and b. we still have a more powerful navy than basically every other navy in the world combined
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Oct 5, 2016 03:45
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Lightning Knight posted:Any moderator who won't live fact check might as well not show up to the debate. You're literally worse than useless if you can't be bothered to do basic poo poo like that. Pretty much. My view is this. It's a wash. Kaine got some good hits in, but Pence didn't care and lied through his teeth.
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Oct 5, 2016 03:45
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vyelkin posted:Also I would hope that people who were willing to tune in and watch a vice presidential debate would recognize that Kaine repeatedly gave specific policy points to answer questions whereas Pence just said "great question, we have to do better on that, Clinton bad" over and over again, but I know that's not the case. Pence sold it better, though. Kaine made some good points, but he couldn't persuade anybody on them that didn't already agree with his position.
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Oct 5, 2016 03:45
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Serge Painsbourg posted:That being said, Elaine Quijano did a good job moderating the debate. She kept them on topic and on time while managing to get them to move on when the time called for it. Like when discussing home grown terror.
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Oct 5, 2016 03:45
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WOW. So HALF of all the people who Frank Luntz just talked to say that tonight made them more likely to vote for Trump. But then when asked "does this change your vote?" absolutely ZERO of them raised their hands. IMO that's a very good sign for Clinton.
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Oct 5, 2016 03:45
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Serge Painsbourg posted:Unfortunately, I'm going to have to give the win to Pence. For all of his horrible policy positions and contradictions, he was more persuasive. He sold Trump's bullshit better than Kaine sold Clinton's policy. Kaine had some good points, but his rambling and interruptions made him look unprepared. Pence came off as more presidential, which is legitimately scary because he would be the Cheney to Trump's Bush. Pence's position on Russia is 100% the opposite of Trump's and he just made up a bunch of poo poo about Syria rather than talk about Trump's positions on it. These two peculiarities are more or less the story of the debate on any given issue.
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Oct 5, 2016 03:45
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FuzzySlippers posted:Kaine might actually win the sound bite wars. Like what good clip are you going to use from Pence? Something where he natters on and doesn't answer a question? The only usable soundbites Pence generated were for Trump were: "Thank you, Elaine, and thank you for asking the question" "Hillary Clinton's emails!" "Nuh uh" "Hillary Clinton and you have campaigned on nothing but insults"
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Oct 5, 2016 03:45
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It's looking like the media is declaring it a tie. I'd give Kaine the edge though because even though he sucked, Pence had more moments that could boil down into negative soundbites for Trump. Either way, I don't think it matters. This will stop Trump's downslide for a bit but they'll go down again after the second debate (or sooner, considering the NYT still has a bunch of stuff they're sitting on and Trump is a walking gaffe machine)
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Oct 5, 2016 03:45
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Pakled posted:Probably by number or tonnage of ships. Which of course is totally beside the point because Literally just the marines could take on every single other nation's fighting forces combined. Our military is wildly disproportionate and geared to utterly shutting down other uniformed military forces (as opposed to guerrilla forces we usually face).
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Oct 5, 2016 03:46
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Wait, did CNN just have Kaine winning the debate?
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Oct 5, 2016 03:47
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CNN focus group thinks Kaine win, just from the look of it. Not sure of the exact numbers (not that it matters)
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Oct 5, 2016 03:47
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vyelkin posted:I also thought Pence fumbled the abortion question at the end while Kaine was really successful at speaking from the heart, so hopefully that leaves a better lasting impression since that was how the debate ended. Noticed this too. Pence on more than one occasion found himself stumbling through answers. He really fumbled through the question on homegrown terrorism prevention by talking extensively and awkwardly about .... non-homegrown terrorism prevention. Overall I think Kaine won. But it's is beginning to look like I'm part of the 40% for Kaine and not 60% for Pence.
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Oct 5, 2016 03:47
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Paul MaudDib posted:Literally just the marines could take on every single other fighting force in the world combined. what about the Vietnamese
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Oct 5, 2016 03:47
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