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Frankly, though, I'd love the context of that O'Keefe video. On the surface, the things he has people saying are extremely damning--bird-dogging and astroturfing all over the place--but without context it's impossible to know what they're actually admitting to (and why the hell they'd just tell some random jackass these things). What questions are they responding to? What has been the thrust of the conversation so far? All of those things were extremely important and entirely changed the meaning of the Planned Parenthood video, so I'd love to see them here. What always baffles me about these O'Keefe videos is that I find it incredibly hard to believe that these high-up, "corrupt" officials would just spill their guts this easily. It makes me extremely skeptical of anything "revealed."
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Oct 17, 2016 22:36
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I do like the implication that wikileaks is trying to put out that the release of the transcripts of speeches Hillary gave that mirrored the positions that she reflect common sentiment was the impetus for the US to tell the Ecuadorian embassy that this was this and they had to shut him down for good.
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Oct 17, 2016 22:37
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A Fancy 400 lbs posted:Ballotpedia Thank you kind goon
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Oct 17, 2016 22:37
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a foolish pianist posted:Some small, super freaky number of them, and we've got zero indication that Snowden holds anything like those values. I mean he apparently thinks it's a moral obligation for the people who have been putting up with wanted rapist julian assange for the past six years to pay for his internet access. Is he similarly concerned about the right to broadcast of other wanted rapists or just noted bellend julian assange? I'm not particularly inclined to be very charitable to him, is what I'm saying.
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Oct 17, 2016 22:38
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The situation the Ecuadorean government is in is pretty difficult if you think about it. They are harboring Assange and giving him asylum. He is using that hospitality to act as an agent directly attempting to interfere in the U.S. election. Not only that, his actions are all intended to damage and harm the side that is actually going to win and assume power. Ecuador could be seen as facilitating this through their assistance of Assange, and, whether they care about it or not, puts them on the outs with the incoming U.S. administration, all because of helping Assange. Does Assange every physically leave the embassy or is he inside 24/7? I'm interested in the logistics of this. I'm assuming Assange can have an income derived through online contributions to Wikileaks (as well as from his Russian sponsors LOL). So does he pay any room and board to Ecuador, and pay for things like phone service?
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Oct 17, 2016 22:38
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Zwabu posted:The situation the Ecuadorean government is in is pretty difficult if you think about it.
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Oct 17, 2016 22:39
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Dork457 posted:http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/17/politics/melania-trump-interview/index.html *a  emoticon chain extending into table-breaking infinity*
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Oct 17, 2016 22:39
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Lightning Knight posted:I mean, I'm not asking him to speak for minority communities. He's an old white guy. I'm asking him to respond to "what about racism?" with "yup that's important too worry about that and we need to fix it." He doesn't need to go on long policy screeds about how to fix racism, he just shouldn't dismiss it off-hand if asked. Not if he wants to be the symbol of the American Left. Actually the question asked was "do you see racism as a byproduct of [class]," which is extremely less open to a "yup that's important" answer than the way you framed it above. (arguably it's as close to a "gotcha" question as you could ask Sanders) I would encourage the thread to move on from this, though, because it's not going to be a productive discussion and relitigating Bernie-on-race for the 1000th time is really tedious
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Oct 17, 2016 22:39
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Zwabu posted:Does Assange every physically leave the embassy or is he inside 24/7? if he leaves he could be arrested for extradition but there stopped being a visible police presence outside the embassy a while ago so who knows if he's imprisoned himself or what
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Oct 17, 2016 22:40
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OwlFancier posted:Oddly from my perspective the democrats are far more concerned with social issues than economic ones, because both parties are parties of money. The United States had strong labor movements throughout its history. They were undermined and defeated in large part because they excluded POC and white working class people were led to believe that they should give up their union heritage to spite black people. That's part of why we need to address racism to address classism. The labor movement in America won't work until it includes all working people, not just white working people. Penisaurus Sex posted:Sure but the question wasn't "do you think racism is bad an also a problem in America?" Maybe not to us. But he is the symbol of the Left to an entire generation of young Americans becoming active in politics right now and he should be emphasizing that they need to stand with POC and women as much as they do with poor white peoples. It's not about what the question is, it's about the answer.
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Oct 17, 2016 22:41
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Lightning Knight posted:The United States had strong labor movements throughout its history. They were undermined and defeated in large part because they excluded POC and white working class people were led to believe that they should give up their union heritage to spite black people. That's part of why we need to address racism to address classism. The labor movement in America won't work until it includes all working people, not just white working people. I concur, though I would suggest that that is a problem of labour's own organization, there's nothing stopping the democratic party from attempting more forceful efforts to promote economic equality, they mostly seem simply disinclined to. Essentially the democratic party isn't very economically egalitarian, it isn't a labour movement and I don't really think it has much desire to be one under most leaderships, so Sanders being economically focused could be an improvement for the party.
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Oct 17, 2016 22:44
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Relentlessboredomm posted:Anyone have a good spot where I can look up a lot of the people on my early ballot? It's for Pima county AZ. You should have gotten a thing in the mail with info on all the candidates. If you know your Legislative District or Precinct, I can probably get more detailed information to you. Is there any race in particular you're interested in?
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Oct 17, 2016 22:44
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Spiffster posted:Had a friend say if Assange gets arrested he's going to the streets to protest... You care that much about a child diddler?!  Lightning Knight posted:The United States had strong labor movements throughout its history. They were undermined and defeated in large part because they excluded POC and white working class people were led to believe that they should give up their union heritage to spite black people. That's part of why we need to address racism to address classism. The labor movement in America won't work until it includes all working people, not just white working people. Good then that fight for fifteen is working with BLM.
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Oct 17, 2016 22:46
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OwlFancier posted:I mean he apparently thinks it's a moral obligation for the people who have been putting up with wanted rapist julian assange for the past six years to pay for his internet access. Defending anti-censorship advocates and whistleblowers should not be nearly as controversial a position as it is. And he wasn't even defending Assange with that tweet.
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Oct 17, 2016 22:47
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Dork457 posted:http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/17/politics/melania-trump-interview/index.html Not the first time a Bush was led into doing something without fully thinking it through.
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Oct 17, 2016 22:48
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Dork457 posted:http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/17/politics/melania-trump-interview/index.html 2) If we go with the counterfactual that she is 100% correct, how does it not make him look even less suited for the office if he's got such a loose control over what people can get him to talk about openly? 3) It is super depressing on every level to realize that this is a woman putting forth an effort to brush this off as 'boy talk', when said contents of boy talk includes--among worse things--her husband crassly boasting about his attempts to cheat on her with another married woman. I'm definitely developing empathy for the women in his life, and I'm not sure if it's deserved or if I need to drink until that feeling fades into the background. I still haven't looking in to why Tiffany is a black sheep because I'm sure it will bum the gently caress out of me. Bhaal fucked around with this message at 22:51 on Oct 17, 2016 |
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Oct 17, 2016 22:48
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I'm not sure I would describe Julian Assange as an "anti censorship advocate" and "whistleblower".
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Oct 17, 2016 22:48
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a foolish pianist posted:Defending anti-censorship advocates and whistleblowers should not be nearly as controversial a position as it is. And he wasn't even defending Assange with that tweet. Problem being that Assange has been caught red handed censoring stories he didn't like and then threatening people who exposed his bullshit. The only thing Julian Assange advocates for is Julian Assange.
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Oct 17, 2016 22:50
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Working with the Kremlin makes you the opposite of whatever a whistleblower is supposed to be
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Oct 17, 2016 22:52
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OwlFancier posted:I'm not sure I would describe Julian Assange as an "anti censorship advocate" and "whistleblower". "elevated failson"
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Oct 17, 2016 22:52
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straight up brolic posted:Working with the Kremlin makes you the opposite of whatever a whistleblower is supposed to be whistlesucker?
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Oct 17, 2016 22:53
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Mohamedou Ould Slahi, the author of Guantanamo Diary, was freed to Mauritania recently https://news.vice.com/story/guantanamo-diary-author-is-free-after-14-years-of-captivity?cl=fp There are still sixty people in Guantanamo, so we can expect another game of GOP concern trolling about their release in the next 12 months, I bet
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Oct 17, 2016 22:54
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The technical term for Julian Assange is "rear end in a top hat".
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Oct 17, 2016 22:54
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Bhaal posted:I still haven't looking in to why Tiffany is a black sheep because I'm sure it will bum the gently caress out of me. Kind of surprised that one isn't more prominent, but, you know, SCOTUS seat.
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Oct 17, 2016 22:54
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boner confessor posted:if he leaves he could be arrested for extradition but there stopped being a visible police presence outside the embassy a while ago so who knows if he's imprisoned himself or what No he couldn't. The US has never charged or questioned Sweden or the UK about Assange. All of this is public record, we can look this up. Without having charged him/asked about the possibility of extradition, Assange is perfectly safe outside of the embassy. Sweden wants to talk to him about his rape charges ( where he pulled the condom off while having sex with a few women, and then claimed it wasn't rape because the sex was initially consensual and he "needs to spread his seed as he is a genius.". ), but the worst case scenario for him right now legally is he gets sent to Sweden and sent to Swedish prison for a few months. The grooming changes this, but up until that point the only threat Assange faced was his own paranoid delusions of how boogeymen would kidnap him and take him to Gitmo despite his public persona/how utterly illegal that is. Realize, he lived happily outside the Embassy for several months/years after the Iraq/NSA leaks that caused the US to "want to kill him". It wasn't until Sweden wanted to talk to him about the rape charges did he flee to the Embassy.
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Oct 17, 2016 22:55
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Early Ballot done. Hopefully AZ will flip blue. I voted for Hillary, KirkPatrick over McCain, legal weed, and a higher minimum wage. 
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Oct 17, 2016 22:57
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Dick Trauma posted:Is there anything to stop the GOP from blocking additional appointments if other justices retire or die? Could they just let the Supreme Court empty out? The President can recess appoint to the SCOTUS, but it's not permanent for whatever reason. So in theory you'd have a Democrat doing yearly recess appointments for the SCOTUS until one side gave in or controlled the WH and Senate. Or Killary Klinton becomes a reality and starts having GOPers killed. A Winner is Jew posted:6 years since there is only 4 years left on the rape charge that has a 10 year statue of limitations. That isn't how statutes of limitation work though? The women didn't wait 10+ years to make their claims.
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Oct 17, 2016 22:58
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Rookersh posted:No he couldn't. Didn't he also want an assurance from the Swedish govt that they wouldn't ever extradite him to the US for any reason, and they couldn't give him that assurance because the US didn't want him for anything?
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Oct 17, 2016 23:01
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Evil Fluffy posted:That isn't how statutes of limitation work though? The women didn't wait 10+ years to make their claims. The charges are from Sweden, and the rape law he's fleeing requires the Swedish government to bring a case against him within 10 years or they can't. Instant Sunrise posted:Didn't he also want an assurance from the Swedish govt that they wouldn't ever extradite him to the US for any reason, and they couldn't give him that assurance because the US didn't want him for anything? Yes.
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Oct 17, 2016 23:02
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Lightning Knight posted:Perhaps, but it runs deeper than wealth. You could make every black person in America wealthy and they would still be hated in a unique and insidious manner by white people that is independent of their socioeconomic status. Perhaps so, but that would t matter. Because black people, having an equall share of the wealth, would be handing out an equal share of the jobs, marriages,, inheritances, local taxes, donations, etc. Implicit and structural bias would't matter, because they would cancel out. You probably would need to keep existing laws against blatant discrimination, violence and so on. But no one would need to be any less racist. Note that the other way round isn't true; if personal racism/bias somehow dropped to zero, then in-family inheritance of wealth from explicitly racist eras would take literally thousands of years to stop being visible in class sorting. Which means that if you have an economic class of people the police consider it their duty to shoot, the bullet holes will be in black flesh.
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Oct 17, 2016 23:02
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I don't think there is anything the US could charge him with even if they wanted to. If he was a United States Citizen he could be in a lot of trouble, but he's a foreign national who did stuff that annoyed the US in a foreign land. If you want to be paranoid about a CIA hit or something fine, but he's not going to be extradited to the US.
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Oct 17, 2016 23:03
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Relentlessboredomm posted:Early Ballot done. Hopefully AZ will flip blue. Don't forget the downticket races. They're super important. The Corporation Commission is a big one, only vote for two even though you can pick three.
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Oct 17, 2016 23:03
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Bhaal posted:1) I'm not a conversationalist black belt or anything, but from the tape it hardly sounds at all like he was prompted much less "egged on" to bring up his infidelities and MO for sexual assault For even just one million dollars I would testify on national television with a straight face that Donald Trump is Literally Jesus and will only bring about heaven on earth if we elect him and provide him with a daily sacrifice of ten nubile teenage virgins.
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Oct 17, 2016 23:03
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Northjayhawk posted:I don't think there is anything the US could charge him with even if they wanted to. If he was a United States Citizen he could be in a lot of trouble, but he's a foreign national who did stuff that annoyed the US in a foreign land. If you want to be paranoid about a CIA hit or something fine, but he's not going to be extradited to the US. Exactly. All he did was publish classified data that he personally didn't steal and there is zero evidence he stole it.
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Oct 17, 2016 23:05
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Rookersh posted:The grooming changes this, but up until that point the only threat Assange faced was his own paranoid delusions of how boogeymen would kidnap him and take him to Gitmo despite his public persona/how utterly illegal that is.
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Oct 17, 2016 23:06
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Dr. Arbitrary posted:Don't forget the downticket races. They're super important. Don't worry, I'm on it. Planned Parenthood's site is really helpful for some of the ballot research as well.
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Oct 17, 2016 23:06
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Rookersh posted:No he couldn't. I thought the worst thing he had up to this point was that he jumped bail to hide in the embassy and so when he leaves he's gonna do some British jail time regardless of the rape case.
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Oct 17, 2016 23:06
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a foolish pianist posted:Some small, super freaky number of them, and we've got zero indication that Snowden holds anything like those values. Why would anyone be mean to a guy who disclosed a ton of US secrets and then fled to safety in Russia? What did he ever do?
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Oct 17, 2016 23:12
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radmonger posted:Perhaps so, but that would t matter. Because black people, having an equall share of the wealth, would be handing out an equal share of the jobs, marriages,, inheritances, local taxes, donations, etc. Implicit and structural bias would't matter, because they would cancel out. You probably would need to keep existing laws against blatant discrimination, violence and so on. But no one would need to be any less racist. I'm not sure I'm parsing what you mean here. Are you making a "rising tide floats all boats" argument? Or just an observation?
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Oct 17, 2016 23:14
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Guy Goodbody posted:Why would anyone be mean to a guy who disclosed a ton of US secrets and then fled to safety
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Oct 17, 2016 23:14
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