|
Sapozhnik posted:ds2 the best game in the series
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2016 19:17
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 19:24 |
|
|
SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:Well there is the faith str building I'm loving around with. In ds3 it's the hardest to be a straight caster. You need way more than 120 stats. ever since the nerf in ds2 faith has been relegated to bare minimum stats needed for buffs and that's how it should be mostly used imho it does have some slick buffs at least
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2016 19:20
|
|
|
Sapozhnik posted:Your first playthrough character exists to level up to infinity and screw around with every single weapon and spell you can get your filthy hands on Are you using the gas staff? It's not a Hitler build unless you gas people. I'm kind of doing the opposite. Im doing my dumb weirdo build I love first and plan to have a file that is generalist. I will probably just screw around with level ups anyway though since I doubt earth seeker is going to light the 120 meta on fire.
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2016 19:22
|
|
|
Mel Mudkiper posted:
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2016 19:25
|
|
|
hard counter posted:ever since the nerf in ds2 faith has been relegated to bare minimum stats needed for buffs and that's how it should be mostly used imho Sounds like someone isn't dedicated to real Faith builds  beating Nameless King on my first DS3 playthrough with 55+5 Faith and only like 24 Vigour/18 Endurance was my true test of manliness, especially since it was somewhat laggy. Archdragon Peak is hilariously bad with that for me, and super camera-dependent. If I look towards the level as you come in (and throughout the entire place too) it's unplayable, like 'reduced game-speed, kick me out of the game because my FPS is too low for online play' bad, and perfectly smooth if I look in the opposite direction or straight downwards, it's pretty funny. Thankfully Nameless King was at least good enough it could be done.
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2016 19:28
|
|
|
Deified Data posted:You win once and then run. Then don't let the guy win once. Getting ahead and cheesing the clock is a valid strategy.
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2016 19:29
|
|
|
In the one brawl I did I think I was literally one shotting a guy with lightning stake. I wish the rose had better damage, it's good at roll catching.
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2016 19:31
|
|
|
skasion posted:Slave Knight Gael can definitely be killed but I'm not quite sure how it works. He doesn't have a visible health bar, I've never caught him using estus (though I can't rule out that it's possible) and I've never seen him die in the second phase, even when Ariandel runs right over him smashing him with the bowl. I tried summoning him and he died really quickly, so he can definitely be killed  Maybe he was just particularly useless that day. Does he increase the boss heath? I just figured I'd be better off without him and never summoned him again.
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2016 19:35
|
|
|
Sapozhnik posted:ds2 the best games in the series This is truth, some people just haven't come around to it quite yet.
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2016 19:34
|
|
|
Insurrectionist posted:Sounds like someone isn't dedicated to real Faith builds lightning is at least usable for pve definitely but trying to crown someone with a lightning bolt in pvp isn't really worth the effort imho save for aoe spells like pillars of light, in any case outside of challenge runs you're probably better off using the FP to buff yourself and let the weapons do the talking
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2016 19:37
|
|
|
Yeah I'm not any good at PvP but I could at least get some kills using my Lightning Astora Greatsword, Raw Crescent Axe and other nice weapons for my build. I went 0 kills in like 20 invasions trying to use actual spells before I gave up on that, back at launch around level 85 - 90.
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2016 19:40
|
|
|
fargom posted:This is truth, some people just haven't come around to it quite yet. It makes me happy to see people not poo poo on that game for once  I absolutely love DS1 and DS3 with all my heart, but I've still managed to spend 3 times more on DS2 due to all the times I've beaten that game with different builds. I've been trying to do the same in DS3, but using anything other than a fast R1 and rolling for days feels like actively gimping yourself rather than "a different way of playing the game" in DS3. In DS2 I've done everything from powerstancing two-handed hammers to fist only to magic only, and it all worked great. In DS3 you can't even do most builds until you're 2/3 into the game due to infusions and weapon/spell drops, and when you finally get there you're gonna have a hard time.
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2016 19:45
|
|
|
Ds2 didnt compel me for going through with a ton of builds like ds1 did, huh. I figured that wasn't a rare occurrence
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2016 19:52
|
|
|
DS2 is way better about having varied builds than any other game in the series due to powerstancing. There's very little incentive to offhand a weapon in DS3. People usually just twohand whatever their weapon of choice is.
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2016 19:55
|
|
|
8-Bit Scholar posted:So for the DLC's lore... I mean, it doesn't look like anyone is trapped in Ariandel. Everyone seems to be there willingly so it's probably not hard to leave. They probably even have their own exit which is presumably how Gael got out. quote:Gael, the Slave Knight, presumably serves Elfriede rather than Friede, since she's the one who will ultimately see the flame. Since she's about to start painting at the DLC's end, I wonder if Painted Worlds can somehow perpetuate themselves--this was the world of Ariandel because when he found it, it was ready to be burned, but he sustained it with offerings of his own blood. This implies that the Painted World's name comes not only from whomever conjured the place, but also from whomever is sustaining it. The painter girl's name is not given. Elfriede is Friede. She just changed her named slightly after leaving the Sable Church. quote:This suggests that somewhere in Priscilla's time, Ariamis is in the Painted World, flagellating himself. Or, since he was the original and presumably the best, he created the world devoid of that aspect. Either way, it appears that blood is the medium for creation, which gives the Painted World a terribly grim element. Whose blood--and how much--did it take to paint the first one? Well if Ariandel is indicative of anything it looks like one's own blood would be used. quote:It seems that this Painted World IS the same one as before, just given different features since it is now Ariandel's rather than Ariamis. Ariandel has no backstory that I could find, beyond being a priest of some sort. Presumably he was with the Cathedral of the Deep and stumbled into a scrap of the painting but we may never truly know. That seems fairly likely since he is stated to to be the "restorer" of the Painted World in the Rose's description. I figure he came across the painting, decaying but still largely intact, and restored it with his own blood. quote:Either way, we've by the end of the DLC set the painting on fire, which will soon spread and burn it all--but with Elfriede painting a new painting, I wonder if she won't end up creating another "healthy" painted world, or making it a loop and creating Ariamis all over again. Since the painter girl needs the flame for inspiration, I figure she's going to be painting an entirely new world. Ariandel only has similarities to Ariamis because it is just a restored version of it. quote:Overall, I think the plot of this DLC was refreshingly simple to follow and didn't feel utterly segregated from the main story either. I kind of wish we had some time travel thing like Giant's Memories so we could explore the backstory of some main game characters that are mentioned in the DLC, but alas. Eh, it feels pretty drat segregated to me. Aside from the brief mention of the Painted World in the Corvian gear, the Painted World has almost no presence in DS3. It feels like the only reason the DLC was about it was because it was important in DS1, like a lot of things in the DS3 base game, actually. There's a fair amount of entirely new lore stuff and locales introduced in the DS3 base game (Carthus, Londor, the Deep, Courland) that would have been way more interesting to have DLC about. Presumably the second DLC will be more about Londor/maybe even the Deep but the first could have been about one of those lands instead. Having a desert area (Carthus) in a Souls game would be cool and novel, and if they really wanted a Sable Church sister they could have her as a corrupter of Wolnir, the one that caused him to fall to the abyss in the first place. I'd also love to learn more about Courland since it's a land famous for the transposing of Souls, as well as what Ludleth's deal is. But nope, they just retread stuff from DS1 for the nth-teen time. Compare that to all of the DS2 DLC packs which are entirely new areas, have strong connection to the base game's lore, and unique gimmicks that spruce up the level design. 8-Bit Scholar posted:Dark Souls 2 and 3 don't seem to have nearly the same emphasis on parrying. It feels dropped to the wayside, and I have never been able to get a good rhythm for parry timings in Souls games past DS1. As a result, I feel that the Friede fight isn't as strong an encounter as the Maria one precisely because you really don't have a way of beating her at her own game. I have no idea if you even can parry her and besides that the battle is much more about figuring out the trick to her signature move and then timing your blocking/counter attacks around that. It doesn't feel like a proud culmination of the game's most core combat mechanics like the Maria fight did. I disagree strongly. Parrying is of equal important in all the games save for Bloodborne which has it be a bit more of a core mechanic. Like, parrying in DS1 is even less useful than it is in the other games because it's simply not as good as other options. Rather than risk taking damage from a failed parry you're better off just stacking poise and spamming through whatever comes your way, or blocking anything with a shield since those are stupidly powerful in that game. Parrying is still stupidly strong but it's not as surefire an option as those things. Compared to DS2/3 where parrying is just as strong as ever but poise-tanking and blocking with your shield are much less effective. It's still worse than just spamming with a straight sword but then they even include a fair amount of enemy types who are tanky enough to make parrying wanted (Cathedral Knights, for example). Mel Mudkiper posted:Pvp players complaining about dodge rolling are pathetic. The stupidly strong nature of rolls in this does not make fighting more complex. If someone is determined not to die, and it's a 1v1, then good luck ever hitting them. If they have enough stamina and the bloodring it's basically impossible except by sheer luck or that person loving up. And saying nothing is broken in that arena video is dumb. Yes, there clearly is. All you gotta do is win once, run away, and you've automatically one in a 2-player brawl. It's easy to criticize the other players as being bad (tbf they kind of are) but even if you fought him it's unlikely you'd be able to win, again because of how broken dodge rolls are in this. Rolls of course have always been overpowered, they just combine in an extra nasty way with the mechanics of the 2-player brawl.
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2016 19:56
|
|
|
SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:Ds2 didnt compel me for going through with a ton of builds like ds1 did, huh. I figured that wasn't a rare occurrence That's funny, to me build diversity and making me interested in many different kinds of runs is probably THE advantage 2 has over 1 and 3 for me. More weapons, more spells and the best magic system IMO (except for the overnerfed Faith spells admittedly) gets me character-building and theorizing more than the other games, and the best NG+ system makes those playthroughs more appealing too. I still don't think I'd call it my favorite, though I couldn't really name one for that now, but all my problems/issues are with other things entirely.
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2016 19:59
|
|
|
Genocyber posted:I disagree strongly. Parrying is of equal important in all the games save for Bloodborne which has it be a bit more of a core mechanic. Parrying in DS3 is extremely risky though. There's such a huge focus on rolling in DS3 that they let a lot of enemies deal way more damage than in the previous games, and if you choose to parry instead of roll then you better make sure you parry successfully. In addition, a partial parry completely drains your stamina which again nearly always makes you take a hit to the face. The risk/reward of parrying is completely off-balance in DS3.  Unrelated; I really want the second DLC to be something completely unrelated to DS1, but also put a few theories to rest like they did with "TOTALLY THE SON OF GWYN" Solaire. Give us Carthus or something new and exciting, but have an NPC mention offhand the death of Gwynevere or something. Basically, I'm just sick of hearing the names Gwynevere and Velka 
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2016 20:02
|
|
|
I never actually parried in DS2, even a single time. Not even failed attempts, just never bothered with it. Parried a fair bit in DS1 including Gwyn and most Black/Silver Knights (granted if you're fine with circle-strafe + backstab that's a way easier approach for them). DS3...not really much outside PvP, and it doesn't land too often for me there either. I tried parrying Pontiff and absolutely can't get the timing down. It looks so easy for speedrunners...
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2016 20:06
|
|
|
Internet Kraken posted:DS2 is way better about having varied builds than any other game in the series due to powerstancing. I guess I didn't "get" power stancing. It seemed like a dumb awkward gimmick that required too much investment.
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2016 20:08
|
|
|
SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:I guess I didn't "get" power stancing. It seemed like a dumb awkward gimmick that required too much investment. It wasn't just because of power stancing, which was a bit awkward and had only a few especially good combinations. The main thing was that an offhand weapon had its full 1handed moveset. Full r1 combo, full r2 combo, rolling attacks, running attacks, jumping attacks; the only thing you could not do was score a critical with a left handed weapon. This meant that dual-wielding weapons, even if you never planned to power stance, was not only viable but probably the better option, especially considering how shields were less effective. You could pair a giant-rear end club with an estoc in the offhand, for example, and have both a quick and a heavy weapon. Naturally this also increased the complexity in PVP. Compared that to DS3 where they simply didn't bother, giving you the basic r1 combo and the ability to block, making offhanding a weapon mostly worthless outside of some useful gimmicks (e.g. greataxe in offhand and a faster weapon in main hand, since the only move greataxes have is a downward slam you're not losing anything by only having access to the r1 combo).
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2016 20:14
|
|
|
Your Computer posted:Unrelated; I really want the second DLC to be something completely unrelated to DS1, but also put a few theories to rest like they did with "TOTALLY THE SON OF GWYN" Solaire. Give us Carthus or something new and exciting, but have an NPC mention offhand the death of Gwynevere or something. Basically, I'm just sick of hearing the names Gwynevere and Velka I forget where I heard it and why but it was suggested that maybe Sulyvan isn't a bad guy. Building off of that there could be a theme of doing away with the old. Like the whole age of a Fire is a broken system that needs to be dropped and not painfully dragged out more. The dlc has that dynamic too. So I would expect ds1 to poke it's rear end in in the second dlc too. I'm thinking it might involve whatever wasgoing on with the untended graves.
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2016 20:15
|
|
|
My favorite (as in, most fun) Dark Souls 2 run used power stancing. Curved sword in left hand, thrusting sword in right hand. Powerful thrusting attacks (sidenote: holy loving poo poo the thrusting sword animations in DS3 are so loving bad I can't loving believe it), slashing attacks with the left hand, a spin2win special attack, and a very good parry for defence. It was so much fun  Being able to parry while dualwielding is one of the things I also miss in DS3, even if parrying is usually a Bad Idea™ in this game.
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2016 20:17
|
|
|
Dark Souls 3 expects you to be blocking with a loving offhand dagger.
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2016 20:20
|
|
|
Your Computer posted:It makes me happy to see people not poo poo on that game for once DS2 is still the game I played the most I think DS2 had the highest "peaks" of the series (fume knight  ) but as an overall experience it lacked the punch of DS1. The PVP of DS2 is inarguably the best though.
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2016 20:23
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2016 20:23
|
|
|
Genocyber posted:And saying nothing is broken in that arena video is dumb. Yes, there clearly is. All you gotta do is win once, run away, and you've automatically one in a 2-player brawl. It's easy to criticize the other players as being bad (tbf they kind of are) but even if you fought him it's unlikely you'd be able to win, again because of how broken dodge rolls are in this. Rolls of course have always been overpowered, they just combine in an extra nasty way with the mechanics of the 2-player brawl. Winning once and running out the clock is not any more broken than camping in Counter-Strike or Zerg Rushing in Star Craft Its not bad or broken, its a system that people lose their minds over because they don't like losing and think their opponent is playing the game "wrong" I like this Mel Mudkiper fucked around with this message at 20:26 on Oct 28, 2016 |
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2016 20:23
|
|
|
Man, I'm enjoying this DS3 LP (Hollow) but he goes peak Fan Theorizing™ near the end. Grand Archives = The Duke's Archives because they both have books, both are called 'archive' and both are in Anor Londo. What do you mean "Anor Londo" is in Irithyll? Lothric Castle is the capital (✓) sits high up (✓) has a lot of houses (✓??) and has an archives so it's clearly actually Anor Londo. Also I think he forgot that they're called The Duke's Archives and not Grand Archives. Also Gwynevere was really into bestiality? wtfInternet Kraken posted:Dark Souls 3 expects you to be blocking with a loving offhand dagger.
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2016 20:27
|
|
|
Mel Mudkiper posted:Winning once and running out the clock is not any more broken than camping in Counter-Strike or Zerg Rushing in Star Craft It's bad because people constantly running away is boring as gently caress
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2016 20:26
|
|
|
Andrast posted:It's bad because people constantly running away is boring as gently caress its entertaining as gently caress if you're the one doing it I've never in my entire run of DS3 found an opponent who couldn't be hit and I am far from a PVP god or anything. I guess what I am saying is, unironically, git gud
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2016 20:30
|
|
|
Andrast posted:It's bad because people constantly running away is boring as gently caress This. It's simply a waste of your time. Like it occurring once or twice can be funny, but this is the kind of thing that's effective enough that I wouldn't be surprised if it became semi-common in 2-person brawls. At that point your options are to just wait it out and lose 5 minutes of your time or black crystal out (assuming you can do that, I haven't tried) and have lost "only" a minute or two.
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2016 20:29
|
|
|
I've put uh... about a thousand hours into DS2 over the years  I really wish Steam didn't track play time like that.It's just so mechanically rock solid and there is such an amazing variety of builds. Hundreds of those were probably spent duelling on the bridge doing all sorts of dumb poo poo. My most effective PvP build that earned me a white invader aura right before SotFS came out was a Faith+Dex build with lightning infused spear, offhand Falchion, and Bow of Want. It was so flexible and it had an answer for just about everything people could throw at me. I never really tried particularly hard while invading people with that loadout though, it was more fun to scare people with the high level aura than it was to actually win the invasion. DS2 PvP at its peak was amazingly fun, as was doing a bunch of co-op. DS3 I played through once at launch with a straight sword quality build. Then I tried a Sorcery build and it was garbage. Then I rushed the Farron Greatsword since that was the meme weapon at the time and that slow piece of crap got me repeatedly stomped by Crystal Sage, so I switched to a straight sword and immediately won that fight. And that was the exact point at which I lost all further interest in DS3. Because it was just "use a straight sword or gently caress you", the exact opposite of DS2's fountain of replayability. It isn't even fun to watch DS3 speedruns because every runner does that "quit and reload literally every time you open a door because muh in game time" MLG bullshit whereas the extreme glass cannon RTSR craziness in DS1 or MrTakashi arriving in Eleum Loyce and immediately berzerker charging straight through Aava and OIK single-handedly makes for fantastic viewing. DS1 was so boring that I couldn't even finish it. I'm sure AotA is really fun and all but I couldn't drag myself through DS1 far enough to experience it.
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2016 20:32
|
|
|
Andrast posted:It's bad because people constantly running away is boring as gently caress Try playing as a mage in the duel mode. Half the people you fight against will refuse to do anything other than run behind cover until you stop using any sort of magic. I don't get it. I'm not gonna stop casting spells just because you keep running, so what's your endgame here pal?
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2016 20:33
|
|
|
Internet Kraken posted:DS2 is way better about having varied builds than any other game in the series due to powerstancing. I always thought powerstancing was hit or miss. There also should have been more options like weapon/dagger, weapon/shield and maybe a handful of unique combos. Would've made it more interesting for people that aren't fans of dual wielding. That said, I think there were other systems in play that helped add to variety in DS2 beyond powerstancing. I think weapon arts were intended to inject combat with a bit more flavor, but I don't think it really panned out that way. A lot of the arts I've played with just aren't worth losing the ability to block or parry. Also kind of silly to have to "twohand" a one-handed straight sword or thrusting sword. And while I've noticed a lot of twohanders in DS3, especially since I think they're pretty easy to use in PvP, I think that's always been an issue with the series. They've always hit hard and have had pretty forgiving tracking, making them perfect for a lot of players that can only tank. Also some can't be parried when used in two hands, which is a bit silly. For what it's worth, though, I've noticed a lot more spell casters in PvP lately. And as for parrying in the souls games, I think it's easiest to pull of in DS3. Although I've given up trying to use the dagger in pvp and just stick to the buckler. Nuebot posted:I like that people are starting to look more favorably on dark souls 2 now. It's my favorite in the series despite its flaws and it was always kind of a bummer that so many people poo poo on it for arbitrary reasons like "B TEAM!" and "They changed the lighting!" but ignored the cool stuff it had like, in my opinion at least, the semi-open maps that let you loop around without really forcing you to backtrack, the best covenants in the series and a huge variety of weapons, dual wielding in particular was really fun to play with. I think SotFS really helps with people's view of the game as well since vanilla was pretty rough. I beat vanilla DS2 on the PS3 but never really went back to it after that. BB is still the best Souls game though. Fire Barrel fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Oct 28, 2016 |
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2016 20:33
|
|
|
Sapozhnik posted:I've put uh... about a thousand hours into DS2 over the years I've probably done about ~400-500 between the 360 and PS4 versions quote:DS1 was so boring that I couldn't even finish it. I'm sure AotA is really fun and all but I couldn't drag myself through DS1 far enough to experience it. Did you play DS1 before or after DS2? I can see maybe the mechanics being less interesting than DS2 but the DS1 world is fantastic. The Gaping Dragon is a microcosm of everything great about that game. Internet Kraken posted:I'm not gonna stop casting spells just because you keep running, so what's your endgame here pal? Eventually you run out And then we feast
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2016 20:33
|
|
|
I played DS1 after DS2. Didn't get into DS1 back in the day because I wasn't really a console gamer at the time and didn't feel like dealing with GFWL or all the DSFix bullshit to get it running.Fire Barrel posted:I always thought powerstancing was hit or miss. There also should have been more options like weapon/dagger, weapon/shield and maybe a handful of unique combos. Would've made it more interesting for people that aren't fans of dual wielding. That said, I think there were other systems in play that helped add to variety in DS2 beyond powerstancing. irl Estocs are wielded with a two-handed grip so it's not that dumb but yeah actually I think DS3's double weapons are a much better mechanic than powerstancing.
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2016 20:39
|
|
|
I think another reason I've played DS2 the most is that it has an infinitely better character creator than DS1 and DS3, and much better fashion. Basically, Dark Souls 2 is my favorite dress-up game and I'm not ashamed to admit that
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2016 20:40
|
|
|
SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:So I would expect ds1 to poke it's rear end in in the second dlc too. I'm thinking it might involve whatever wasgoing on with the untended graves. I actually hope they never ever mention anything about the untended graves or give any other hints or misleading clues about what is happening there. it's such a bizarre zone and it perfectly captures the overset sense of wrongness that I think the entirety of DS3 should have conveyed (with its primary plot conceit being that the apocalypse is minutes away). if they give any explanation for UG it stops being this bizarre and mysterious haunted house, and becomes another dilapidated house on your block that just needs some new paint but is otherwise a normal house.
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2016 20:44
|
|
|
heide knight sword/drakekeeper ss mainhand and estoc/talisman in offhand is the #1 combo i will miss forever a 3 hit natural combo and good rear end movesets all day, especially since the lefthand R2 on estoc was a lefthand sweep meaning that itd gently caress fools up trying to get around you a lot of folks swore by the ice rapier, black scorpion stinger or ricards but ds2 offhand estoc is my poo poo you can even power stance it for the extra firepower and then immediately unswitch for pokes or sweeps yeaaaah then you add in that heavenly thunder and binding bolt and god daaaaamn now the only fuckin' miracles i cast are lightning blade and lightning stake which never works anymore Fereydun fucked around with this message at 20:47 on Oct 28, 2016 |
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2016 20:44
|
|
|
Sapozhnik posted:I played DS1 after DS2. Didn't get into DS1 back in the day because I wasn't really a console gamer at the time and didn't feel like dealing with GFWL or all the DSFix bullshit to get it running. Yeah, I would say go back to DS1 and try to look at the level and enemy design. That's a big part of appreciating DS1 as an experience. Like, what is the most visually interesting boss of DS2? Maybe Demon of Song or the Dark Lurker? Compare that to the Gaping Dragon or Manus Also, look at how the Undead Burg is designed as a level versus the Valley of the Giants.
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2016 20:44
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 19:24 |
|
|
Trying a thing(s) on later play throughs and oh actually it's garbage then losing interest was my ds2 experience
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2016 20:46
|
|