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mcmagic posted:I was at a protest, in new york, and we were right. Broken clocks
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Oct 31, 2016 22:48
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Cingulate posted:haha rape You clearly weren't paying attention back then
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Oct 31, 2016 22:48
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i am the bird posted:Serious question: what would a progressive foreign policy look like and what are (reasonable) steps to getting there? Where can I read about this? mcmagic's post history
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Oct 31, 2016 22:48
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mcmagic posted:I was at a protest, in new york, during the lead up, with a few hundred thousand other people, lots of them new yorkers and we were right. She was wrong. so you're admitting your recollection is biased Agrajag posted:You clearly weren't paying attention back then yeah, in 2003 i remember being annoyed that so many people were buying into the iraq war vote. saying there was widespread opposition let alone questioning the official story is just faulty memory at work. america was on board with the iraq war, either for it or seeing it as an inevitiability anyway
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Oct 31, 2016 22:48
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HootTheOwl posted:Other than a wet dream exactly what are you basing this on? http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/clinton-putin-226153 http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/15/opinions/putin-clinton-hate-affair-ghitis/
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Oct 31, 2016 22:48
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SunAndSpring posted:So, what's a good way to debunk the whole "If Hillary starts a no-fly zone in Syria it's WORLD WAR III A no fly zone would be negotiated with Russia (I think she said so during the debte?) Basically, that's her intial offer, and Russia will counter and bombings will continue.
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Oct 31, 2016 22:48
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" poo poo? I tried looking for articles but many of them are clickbait opinion pieces.
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i am the bird posted:Serious question: what would a progressive foreign policy look like and what are (reasonable) steps to getting there? Where can I read about this? John Kerry is doing a great job a Sec State if you ask me.
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Oct 31, 2016 22:48
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Cingulate posted:Everyone who was paying attention knew in 2003 that 1. the pretenses for invasion were bullshit, 2. it would be a long, terrible, and bloody conflict and the survivors would not simply decide to become basically Kansas but a bit warmer. ruh roh!
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Oct 31, 2016 22:49
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Agrajag posted:are you loving brain dead? do you not even realize the mindset back then, especially in New York? Dexo posted:*casually orders drone strikes town of mostly civilians to hit one dude who we think is there who may have ties to terrorism* A Winner is Jew posted:
(There are people in the world who do not live in the US!) Just think: you were fooled by Bush, Rove and Cheney. Just let that sink in. These guys fooled you.
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Oct 31, 2016 22:49
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Dexo posted:*casually orders drone strikes town of mostly civilians to hit one dude who we think is there who may have ties to terrorism* "Casually" probably isn't a fair way of characterizing it.
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Oct 31, 2016 22:49
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Cingulate posted:I know, but a better person would. Ghaddafi kept a rape dungeon under the University of Tripoli
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Oct 31, 2016 22:49
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haha we are actually getting to the point where people are excusing hillary's vote and going that she had no choice. Every loving western leader aside from Britain opted out. But nope, she couldn't have known!
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Oct 31, 2016 22:49
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I've said this before but being a death penalty opponent makes commenting on US foreign policy really hairy. I think my personal morality very likely doesn't scale up usefully to that degree, much like how the national budget is not like a household budget. I think it's possible, without having any specific examples in mind, that assassinating a foreign leader could be for the greater good, but it's always going to make me feel dirty. Even peaceful NGO style interactions with foreign countries paralyze me with the butterfly-wing possibilities of doing unforseeable harm. I try to focus on domestic policy personally because war, boy, I don't know.
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Oct 31, 2016 22:50
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Tell Russ Feingold and Barbara Lee and many other democrats who stood up against the Iraq war that there was no other choice but to go along with Bush's war crime.
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Oct 31, 2016 22:50
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Monaghan posted:haha we are actually getting to the point where people are excusing hillary's vote and going that she had no choice. I'm pretty sure everybody here agrees that it was a mistake on her part.
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Oct 31, 2016 22:50
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Periodiko posted:I don't think the no-fly zone is good foreign policy, but it needs to be weighed against Trump, who is overwhelmingly worse when it comes to "recklessly starting wars". Trump is overwhelmingly worse when it comes to everything, which is why this election is so loving awful. I'm happy to vote for Clinton and this isn't meant specifically as a knock against her, but it's not great that people in this thread are shooting down literally every criticism with "well, at least she's not Trump."
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Oct 31, 2016 22:50
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iospace posted:So one day before this hit? Then it's probably a minor impact then at most. I still don't get why so many Republicans are so desperate to clutch every bit of power possible that they'd not only throw in with someone as uniformly awful as Trump, but even sell out to Russia like this on the off chance that it would help them. Even torpedoing their own careers to do it. Just what is driving their utter desperation to embrace the absolute worst people possible solely to have some warm body with an "R" next to their name in charge?
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Oct 31, 2016 22:51
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Monaghan posted:haha we are actually getting to the point where people are excusing hillary's vote and going that she had no choice. no, the point is that it wasn't a simple "Should we invade Iraq Y/N" vote and a lot of americans are forgetting the domestic context of 2003, granted that people who can vote in this election were in elementary school when that vote happened there's enough nuance there that it's just a dumbfuck political cudgel to use the iraq vote to paint centrists as no true progressive or whatever
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Oct 31, 2016 22:51
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Agrajag posted:You clearly weren't paying attention back then Fojar38 posted:Ghaddafi kept a rape dungeon under the University of Tripoli Nobody deserves a violent death. Revenge is bad. Hate is bad. Majorian posted:"Casually" probably isn't a fair way of characterizing it.
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Oct 31, 2016 22:51
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Majorian posted:I'm pretty sure everybody here agrees that it was a mistake on her part. What is really hilarious to me is the people who use this stuff to argue that Trump is the better choice because "his hands are clean!" A. yeah, for about ten seconds they'd be clean, B. could dirt stick to anything that small anyway?
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Oct 31, 2016 22:51
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Cingulate posted:A few predator strikes here and there is 1. murder, 2. a hell of a lot better than what you guys usually do. The opinions of the people that don't live in the US don't matter, hth. And yeah, Bush, Rove, and Cheney convinced almost every media outlet in the nation which was literally what my link called out.
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Oct 31, 2016 22:52
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Geostomp posted:I still don't get why so many Republicans are so desperate to clutch every bit of power possible that they'd not only throw in with someone as uniformly awful as Trump, but even sell out to Russia like this on the off chance that it would help them. Even torpedoing their own careers to do it. Just what is driving their utter desperation to embrace the absolute worst people possible solely to have some warm body with an "R" next to their name in charge? Doesn't Comey have something of a personal grudge against the Clintons?
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Oct 31, 2016 22:52
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boner confessor posted:no, the point is that it wasn't a simple "Should we invade Iraq Y/N" vote and a lot of americans are forgetting the domestic context of 2003, granted that people who can vote in this election were in elementary school when that vote happened These peoples thoughts are so thoroughly dominated by fear that they're willing to make deals with the devil if they think it will keep them safe from the horrific bogeymen that they've conjured up in their own minds.
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Oct 31, 2016 22:52
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Geostomp posted:I still don't get why so many Republicans are so desperate to clutch every bit of power possible that they'd not only throw in with someone as uniformly awful as Trump, but even sell out to Russia like this on the off chance that it would help them. Even torpedoing their own careers to do it. Just what is driving their utter desperation to embrace the absolute worst people possible solely to have some warm body with an "R" next to their name in charge? death by demographics
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Oct 31, 2016 22:52
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Geostomp posted:I still don't get why so many Republicans are so desperate to clutch every bit of power possible that they'd not only throw in with someone as uniformly awful as Trump, but even sell out to Russia like this on the off chance that it would help them. Even torpedoing their own careers to do it. Just what is driving their utter desperation to embrace the absolute worst people possible solely to have some warm body with an "R" next to their name in charge?
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Oct 31, 2016 22:53
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Okay I'm Canadian so I may be missing context, but I can't think of a single military action in the last 16 or so years that hillary didn't support to some degree. I'm also looking forward to her eagerly loving over the Palestinians at every opportunity.
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Oct 31, 2016 22:53
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Paradoxish posted:Trump is overwhelmingly worse when it comes to everything, which is why this election is so loving awful. I'm happy to vote for Clinton and this isn't meant specifically as a knock against her, but it's not great that people in this thread are shooting down literally every criticism with "well, at least she's not Trump." Yes this. Even John Oliver did a whole segment about how there are legitimate concerns about Hillary, it's just that Trump is overwhelmingly worse. If you are claiming with a straight face that Hillary is perfect and has a perfect record and there is nothing in her record that is concerning, you are either very stupid, very poorly informed, or just plain fooling yourself.
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Oct 31, 2016 22:53
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mcmagic posted:John Kerry is doing a great job a Sec State if you ask me. *kills innocent brown people in foreign countries, going after one or two targets*
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Oct 31, 2016 22:53
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Cingulate posted:That, too is terrible. Said the white westerner in response to rebels killing a dictator that had been torturing the population of his country for half a century
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Oct 31, 2016 22:54
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:I've said this before but being a death penalty opponent makes commenting on US foreign policy really hairy. I think my personal morality very likely doesn't scale up usefully to that degree, much like how the national budget is not like a household budget. I think it's possible, without having any specific examples in mind, that assassinating a foreign leader could be for the greater good, but it's always going to make me feel dirty. Even peaceful NGO style interactions with foreign countries paralyze me with the butterfly-wing possibilities of doing unforseeable harm. I try to focus on domestic policy personally because war, boy, I don't know. If you haven't yet, check out your president's take on the issue.
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Oct 31, 2016 22:54
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Cingulate posted:I was paying attention to the people who were paying attention. They were saying that the pretenses for invading Iraq were stupid and it would have terrible consequences: a quick victory followed by immediate outbreaks of sectarian violence, followed by a failed state. Cingulate posted:I was like 12 or 17 or something at the time and every newspaper I read at the time said one thing: when you go there, Saddam will falter within minutes, but a crazy amount of sectarian violence will immediately fill up the vacuum. Also, literally every person who has not yet shot Harry Whittington would have told you back then that the pretenses were idiotic: there was no danger of Saddam actually harming anybody but his on citizens any time soon, and he had zero connections with the 9/11 attackers. You don't even remember how old you were and that is with the benefit of simple maths.
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Oct 31, 2016 22:54
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Ogmius815 posted:Didn't Gaddafi literally threaten to go block by block murdering dissidents? Yeah I'm really sorry that guy is dead. When one of Gaddafi's Western Educated sons heard it he tried to get his dad to back down because he knew it would trigger an intervention. Gadaffi thought The West was bluffing and didn't listen.
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Oct 31, 2016 22:54
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Dare I hope that this can tip the NC Senate race? http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/31/politics/richard-burr-hillary-clinton-gun-owners/index.html "Well, my answer to you would be it isn't going to happen -- period," Burr said when asked about the prospects of President Barack Obama's nominee, Merrick Garland, being confirmed in the lame-duck session of Congress. Burr added: "And if Hillary Clinton becomes president, I am going to do everything I can do to make sure four years from now, we still got an opening on the Supreme Court." yeah they're just giving the game away now.
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Oct 31, 2016 22:54
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https://twitter.com/JamilSmith/status/793209348331802625 This loving election.
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Oct 31, 2016 22:55
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Rastor posted:If you are claiming with a straight face that Hillary is perfect and has a perfect record and there is nothing in her record that is concerning, you are either very stupid, very poorly informed, or just plain fooling yourself. you're equally fooling yourself if you're trying to point at the iraq war vote from 13 years ago as an indication that hillary would start a useless war
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Oct 31, 2016 22:55
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Deified Data posted:Agreed. I don't have too many Trumpkins on FB right now but I'm keeping what little there are for the post-election 'fruede. If CSPAM doesn't have a post-election /pol/ schadenfreude thread I'm going to be very disappointed
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Oct 31, 2016 22:55
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boner confessor posted:no, the point is that it wasn't a simple "Should we invade Iraq Y/N" vote and a lot of americans are forgetting the domestic context of 2003, granted that people who can vote in this election were in elementary school when that vote happened I think we're fine to say that if you went along with war crimes and supported the worst probably foreign policy decision in the history of the country that you should AT LEAST have to answer for that vote for the rest of your career. That is a low bar.
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Oct 31, 2016 22:55
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Agrajag posted:I love you beautiful idiots coming in all holier than thou while ignoring the fact that Bush's administration provided false info that led to the war. Yeah. 'no one was for the war because there was no evidence' kind of ignores that Killary was probably sitting down in security briefings with people going 'oh yeah we 100% have evidence he's got nukes for sure.' The fact that they were lying is the scandal, not that people in positions of power believed them. Like, I don't get to make fun of Trump for not listening to security advisers about Russia being behind the hacks if I don't also give HRC the benefit of the doubt on that poo poo.
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Oct 31, 2016 22:56
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HorseRenoir posted:If CSPAM doesn't have a post-election /pol/ schadenfreude thread I'm going to be very disappointed In the likely event good triumphs, of course.
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Oct 31, 2016 22:56
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mcmagic posted:I think we're fine to say that if you went along with war crimes and supported the worst probably foreign policy decision in the history of the country that you should AT LEAST have to answer for that vote for the rest of your career. That is a low bar. War of 1812 was worse. 
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Oct 31, 2016 22:56
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