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I think I have a good future ahead of me as one of those insane cackling court room attendees.
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Nov 9, 2016 16:44
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Angry Salami posted:We're one step closer to the post-atomic horror! If Trump is what it takes to bring about the Federation then I guess some sacrifices have to be made. Chances are most of us will be vaporized in the first seconds anyways so what do we care!
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Nov 9, 2016 17:07
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Kibayasu posted:If Trump is what it takes to bring about the Federation then I guess some sacrifices have to be made. Chances are most of us will be vaporized in the first seconds anyways so what do we care! For if the bomb that drops on you Gets your friends and neighbors too There'll be nobody left behind to grieve And we will all go together when we go What a comforting fact that is to know
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Nov 9, 2016 17:36
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I've seen more awareness of Tom Lehrer crop up in the last two days than in like my entire SA career to date.
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Nov 9, 2016 19:23
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Big Mean Jerk posted:I think I have a good future ahead of me as one of those insane cackling court room attendees. I'm the guy with the useless umbrella frame
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Nov 9, 2016 19:43
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Data Graham posted:I've seen more awareness of Tom Lehrer crop up in the last two days than in like my entire SA career to date. It's going to be a good time to be a satirist. Assuming they aren't all executed at least.
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Nov 9, 2016 20:49
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I was thinking it was because America voted for it to be the 1960s again.
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Nov 9, 2016 20:51
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Drone posted:So when do the Sanctuary Districts open? At least Sisko is gonna show up in like eight years to start some riots and save us from this hellhole Right? 
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Nov 9, 2016 21:31
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Pikestaff posted:Voyager honestly grew on me as I watched it. It's far from the best Trek series but some of the episodes were pretty fun. Same tbh, it's neither TNG nor DS9, but there were some good ideas and good episodes in there, and the characters tended to be inoffensive at worst. Even like Neelix had his moments.
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Nov 9, 2016 23:09
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And you know what's really frightening? If you drink enough of it, you begin to like it.
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Nov 9, 2016 23:28
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Data Graham posted:And you know what's really frightening? If you drink enough of it, you begin to like it. Same but for whiskey.
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Nov 9, 2016 23:58
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Ohhhh poo poo Damar is on Enterprise, what a treat. Wow archer is going to flat out rob him.
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Nov 10, 2016 04:41
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Isn't there a social darwinist war after the sanctuary district?
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Nov 10, 2016 04:50
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nerdman42 posted:Isn't there a social darwinist war after the sanctuary district? No but there's a WWIII when genetically engineered super-men become the earth's natural elites and form brutal dictatorships treating humans as slaves or 2nd class citizens. This was due to a flaw in the genetic engineering that for some reason also made them evil and power hungry. Despite technology advancing for hundreds of years since, it's still illegal because they would turn into super-men and the federation will not tolerate a society where some of it's members have superior abilities. *is a multi-species nation where some members can read minds, others have super strength and intellect*.
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Nov 10, 2016 04:59
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Baronjutter posted:No but there's a WWIII when genetically engineered super-men become the earth's natural elites and form brutal dictatorships treating humans as slaves or 2nd class citizens. This was due to a flaw in the genetic engineering that for some reason also made them evil and power hungry. Despite technology advancing for hundreds of years since, it's still illegal because they would turn into super-men and the federation will not tolerate a society where some of it's members have superior abilities. *is a multi-species nation where some members can read minds, others have super strength and intellect*. It looks kind of weird to us because we think it would be entirely natural to have an augmented arms race for optimal advantage for, presumably, ourselves or those in our group (however designated). We see this as such a fundamental reality and truth that we have a hard time considering that it isn't necessarily so. Also, Khan lost a fist-fight to a free birth toad and was outsmarted by a small cluster of the same. Maybe these augmentations don't actually make you that much smarter. 
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Nov 10, 2016 05:05
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Augments were only augmented reletive to the people of their time. People of the Federation are jacked up on so much medicine and high quality education they can naturally run rings around past augments.
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Nov 10, 2016 05:09
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Genetic tinkering seemed to cause gooniness in the people Bashir worked with in those couple of episodes, maybe that's the real killer flaw. 
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Nov 10, 2016 05:13
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:Genetic tinkering seemed to cause gooniness in the people Bashir worked with in those couple of episodes, maybe that's the real killer flaw. What will probably actually prevent mass human genomic upgrades is that when there are fuckups on the children of the rich, the parents will lawyer up.
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Nov 10, 2016 05:24
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WickedHate posted:I was thinking it was because America voted for it to be the 1860s again.
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Nov 10, 2016 05:39
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:Genetic tinkering seemed to cause gooniness in the people Bashir worked with in those couple of episodes, maybe that's the real killer flaw. That made a lot more sense to me than "Oooh, we're still scared of Khan!". If your genetic 'enhancements' half the time leave your kid worse than when you started, yeah, that's going to get banned as unethical.
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Nov 10, 2016 06:50
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Baronjutter posted:No but there's a WWIII when genetically engineered super-men become the earth's natural elites and form brutal dictatorships treating humans as slaves or 2nd class citizens. This was due to a flaw in the genetic engineering that for some reason also made them evil and power hungry. Despite technology advancing for hundreds of years since, it's still illegal because they would turn into super-men and the federation will not tolerate a society where some of it's members have superior abilities. *is a multi-species nation where some members can read minds, others have super strength and intellect*. Look at this guy, confusing the Eugenics Wars and WWIII in the Star Trek thread. 
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Nov 10, 2016 06:52
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Baronjutter posted:No but there's a WWIII when genetically engineered super-men become the earth's natural elites and form brutal dictatorships treating humans as slaves or 2nd class citizens. This was due to a flaw in the genetic engineering that for some reason also made them evil and power hungry. Despite technology advancing for hundreds of years since, it's still illegal because they would turn into super-men and the federation will not tolerate a society where some of it's members have superior abilities. *is a multi-species nation where some members can read minds, others have super strength and intellect*. The Eugenics Wars all happened in the mid-90s (and it was presumably more of a series of proxy conflicts than anything, considering Voyager went back to 1996 that one time and everything in Los Angeles was just peachy-keen). World War 3 happened around the 2030s or 2040s (I think?) and was more of a Cold-War-Gone-Hot scenario, with at least one multinational bloc going up against the other. I don't think we know what the western bloc(s) were called, but one of the belligerents was the Eastern Coalition (which was conceivably still a thread even in 2063). 
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Nov 10, 2016 06:59
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Arglebargle III posted:Same but for whiskey. You're drinking the wrong whiskey, friend. Season 2, Unnatural Selection. Troi opens by immediately throwing Beverly under the bus. Starfleet didn't think they'd need any kind of quarantine chamber while exploring strange new worlds and no one has ever heard of a hazmat/biohazard suit.
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Nov 10, 2016 07:20
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Baronjutter posted:No but there's a WWIII when genetically engineered super-men become the earth's natural elites and form brutal dictatorships treating humans as slaves or 2nd class citizens. This was due to a flaw in the genetic engineering that for some reason also made them evil and power hungry. Despite technology advancing for hundreds of years since, it's still illegal because they would turn into super-men and the federation will not tolerate a society where some of it's members have superior abilities. *is a multi-species nation where some members can read minds, others have super strength and intellect*. I think the idea presented in Space Seed (and Where No Man Has Gone Before) is that humans are naturally going to try to run things if they view themselves as measurably better than those around them, not that a particular augmentation method was flawed. Also, keep in mind that many countries use fire hoses/water cannons for riot control because they work pretty well, but the U.S. doesn't because they're closely associated with the Civil Rights Movement. Japan has vowed to never posses nuclear weapons. The U.S. was once the world leader in eugenics until the Nazis took it way too far. Sometimes poo poo happens that makes certain technology distasteful enough that it becomes part of a culture. Edit: I wonder though if the lovely augments were because the technology is inherently risky or if its because they had back alley augmentation. Kind of like how meth was never good for you, but it supposedly got a ton worse once people started cooking it out of Sudafed in their basements. Cat Hatter fucked around with this message at 08:21 on Nov 10, 2016 |
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Nov 10, 2016 08:12
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Yeah, Bashir clearly considered himself to be one of the lucky ones because he came out halfway normal. Knowing Federation super tech, if the gene mods happened in proper facilities, the failure rate would probably be tiny. You could probably make a decent analogy to back alley abortions and a parent's right to choose (to augment their child) in safety. Of course, we'd never see that because the only abortion analogies Trek is comfortable with involve Riker murdering his clone. Besides, genetic engineering in Trek is just one of those things that's doomed to Always Go Wrong -- just like artificial intelligence, cloning, planned utopian communities, cybernetic augmentation, and whatever this week's metaphor for nuclear weapons is. I get why most of that stuff is verboten, but the misty-eyed, square-jawed humanism of ~Gene's Vision~ can be a little predictable at times. It's nice that Bashir got to represent a "normal" augment, but they could have done more to question the essential premise of the augmentation ban itself. They hinted in that direction a little, but I don't think they were willing to rock the boat and it makes some otherwise good episodes feel a bit toothless. It's a fairly consistent problem with how the Federation is depicted. Usually, the Star Fleet way is the right way so when someone in the Federation breaks with the Star Fleet way, it almost always means they're wrong. It's a bit of a story trap because it makes for very predictable television when you know that, by the end of the episode, Admiral Ahab or Commodore Bligh is going to have his hypocrisy/alien mind control exposed by people who do things the Star Fleet Way. I always felt that all the Maquis/Paradise Lost/Section 31 spies and rebels stuff was an attempt to remedy some of the weird statist excesses of the TNG philosophy (that or jaded gen-xers took over the writing staff). Some of it works pretty well and Inter Arma Silent Leges, at least, is a drat good episode, but they do a lot of dancing around the real implications of what's happening and use ambiguity to suggest stuff they'd likely get in trouble for spelling out (such as that Star Fleet leadership is either unconscionably corrupt or under the sway of a neo-fascist deep state). It often seems like they were indulging in oh-so-90s government paranoia while being very careful to stop short of actually saying much or making their hero organization look too bad. The result is a lot of stories (like pretty much the entire Maquis arc) that are wall-to-wall with suspense and political intrigue, but have very little going on under the surface. The shades of gray on DS9 are great, but sometimes I would have preferred a little actual color.
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Nov 10, 2016 09:26
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Nessus posted:I actually suspect this is kind of the case, and may be the case when Silicon Valley tech heads start gene-tampering with little Skyler and Madison. Sure, you can tweak up their ability to multiply numbers in their heads or whatever, but what are the knock-on effects from that? Bashir was probably either lucky, had a gene-tampering program that wasn't that ambitious, or had an actual undiagnosed learning disability which was fixed. It wasn't really undiagnosed. He was severely mentally deficient, they straight up say. We know the federation will do genetic engineering for medical reasons, they do it a bunch and Bashir himself modifies Dax so she can have half-Worf babies. It's doing it for enhancement's sake that's banned, and Bashir probably didn't make the threshold for being fixed.
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Nov 10, 2016 09:43
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I have a headcanon where all the 24th century humans are learning calculus at age 8 because some of the the augments mingled with everyone else and now they're all 50% genetically enhanced anyways
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Nov 10, 2016 19:50
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Echo Video posted:I have a headcanon where all the 24th century humans are learning calculus at age 8 because some of the the augments mingled with everyone else and now they're all 50% genetically enhanced anyways Kahn got a little bit Genghis?
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Nov 10, 2016 21:14
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As I recall, the Khan-era supermen were not the product of genetic modification, but of selective breeding. Hence the Eugenics Wars. Had genetic engineering even become a "thing" in sci-fi then?
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Nov 10, 2016 21:56
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Beachcomber posted:You're drinking the wrong whiskey, friend. Sorry I only drink golden tequila from late 22nd century cultivars of Martian agave grown on the southern slopes of Olympus Mons.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:33
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mossyfisk posted:As I recall, the Khan-era supermen were not the product of genetic modification, but of selective breeding. Hence the Eugenics Wars.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:39
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WickedHate posted:I was thinking it was because America voted for it to be the 1960s again. The 1960s was a time of massive positive social change, primarily in civil rights, while being lead by a warhawk. That's kind of the opposite of what's happening. Nessus posted:I think they were kind of clustered together. Keep in mind that they came up with Khan fifty years ago. I don't think genetic engineering was a well known thing at the time, but people would have remembered and known about "Eugenics" from, you know, the war. Which was about as long ago to them, as TNG being on the air was to us. Perhaps less time, now. There was 22 years between the end of WW2 and Space Seed, 20 years between the end of the Eugenics wars and now!
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Nov 10, 2016 23:51
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Baronjutter posted:No but there's a WWIII when genetically engineered super-men become the earth's natural elites and form brutal dictatorships treating humans as slaves or 2nd class citizens. This was due to a flaw in the genetic engineering that for some reason also made them evil and power hungry. lmao, that is purestrain OG humans, no engineering needed on that one.
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Nov 11, 2016 06:58
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Arglebargle III posted:Sorry I only drink golden tequila from late 22nd century cultivars of Martian agave grown on the southern slopes of Olympus Mons. 
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Nov 11, 2016 07:13
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Bill Shatner's got opinions: https://twitter.com/WilliamShatner/status/796858945792937984 https://twitter.com/WilliamShatner/status/796886972832714752
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Nov 11, 2016 07:27
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Well I guess we know why Shatner didn't sign that Star Trek anti-Trump letter from a while back.
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Nov 11, 2016 08:09
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Shatner surprising no-one by being just a bit of a dickhead.
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Nov 11, 2016 08:24
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Takei has also got opinions, but is unsure how recess appointments work. https://twitter.com/GeorgeTakei/status/796854677165973504
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Nov 11, 2016 08:59
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Gonz posted:Takei has also got opinions, but is unsure how recess appointments work. I mean, that literally is how recess appointments work. Obama is totally free to fill a Supreme Court spot as a recess appointment (Washington appointed Rutledge, Eisenhower appointed Brennan, Warren, and Stewart). It's just that the Senate would most likely reject the nomination during its next session --- something that has only happened once before for a Supreme Court justice, over 210 years ago. If the Democrats had been able to get 51 seats in the Senate, that's almost certainly how it would have gone. Now though, it's debatable whether he'll even try it (he should). Anyway, Star Trek. 
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Nov 11, 2016 09:08
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Drone posted:Shatner surprising no-one by being just a bit of a dickhead. 
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Nov 11, 2016 09:14
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