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Venom Snake posted:Chuck Schumer is a craven opportunist willing to sell his grandma for political power dude. Just don't call people rats okay? Please? The rats fleeing a sinking ship metaphor has nothing to do with religion and tone policing regardless of context is part of why the Democrats are mocked.
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Nov 11, 2016 19:00
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eunos posted:It's good to see that the Democrats are doing serious soul searching about why they lost, and how they can better promote their message in the future. Everyone I know who was defending the Clintons just days ago hates them. They are not welcome with the D.C./VA establishment anymore.
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Nov 11, 2016 19:02
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Liberal policies aren't pro-labor. The whole angle of that polling was always specious, because it never defined exactly what "liberal policy" means. I mean, in reality it means abandoning them all to the mercies of market forces, but that's not what you think it is. I actually have no idea what liberal economic policies are because Clinton never talked about them during the campaign (this is actually inaccurate as I did read her economic policy proposals, but I'm a total loving weirdo, and the assumption that people in the Midwest would do the same as me is probably one of the many, many holes in Captain Mook's SS HFA that leaked in bilgewater and caused the ship to sink)
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Nov 11, 2016 19:01
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bump_fn posted:do you want people to start sharing this and (a) if so how and (b) how are people supposed to contact you with corrections/updates in the google doc, might want to add some words about that a) gently caress it start sharing it now b) on the forums pm me Zikan has issued a correction as of 06:54 on Jan 16, 2017 |
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Nov 11, 2016 19:02
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SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:Some/most rural communities view of government job as a hand out as much as a check just straight to their mail. The government sticking a whatever in the area just so people can have good jobs isn't going to be jobs people are proud of. Look up the Tennessee Valley Authority. it survived in TN of all places. Because people knew it did good work and gave people good jobs in rural America.
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Nov 11, 2016 19:01
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NumberLast posted:Because the Dems don't acknowledge that they exist. We've been over this like a dozen times. Lol, if only the Dems had acknowledged their existence, it would have completely garnered their vote over the racist dipshit literally promising to make all of their dreams come true. Blue collar billionaire! loving ell oh ell.
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Nov 11, 2016 19:01
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HannibalBarca posted:(why did they ever rely on college-educated whites to begin with?) Because all the historical data was telling them that educated people turn out to vote, and "uneducated" people don't. Therefore, uneducated working class whites didn't matter. Even after Trump was giving them every reason in the world to turn out and vote, just to spite the technocratic sociopaths who abandoned them.
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Nov 11, 2016 19:03
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:I wonder how the Board of Directors at Planned Parenthood feel about endorsing Hillary during the primaries now. They already got theirs, so why should they care? Recall it wasn't PP the organization that endorsed Clinton, it was the PP-PAC that did.
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Nov 11, 2016 19:02
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Why would you guys want to fight for Ellison to be DNC chairman? That's largely a fundraising role, and for Democrats that's going to mean sucking up to millionaires in NYC and SF to get a fraction of the resources the RNC has. Ellison should be positioning himself for a run in 2020, and let Howard Dean try to work his magic as he did before. The last thing you guys should want is for Ellison to have Feinstein and Schumer on speed dial.
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Nov 11, 2016 19:04
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jackofarcades posted:Read this entire thread and it's cool and good and I'm here to eat poo poo with the rest of the Clintonites. Anti-racism is part of the socialist project, and the task before us is to build solidarity between working people of all races. That means on-the-ground organizing. It means listening to people who feel hurt by the system and not sneering at them for voting wrong. And it means pursuing simple, universalist policies that can't be attacked as handouts to the undeserving (because everyone benefits visibly from them). People love Medicare and Social Security a lot more than Medicaid and food stamps for precisely this reason. Don't fall into the trap of wonkery where you fiddle around with three dozen tax incentives and come out with some too-clever-by-half market solution—people don't have the time to understand that poo poo, and they don't even realize that they're benefiting from government programs. Single payer and child allowances (as direct payments) are a good start. Zoran has issued a correction as of 19:09 on Nov 11, 2016 |
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Nov 11, 2016 19:05
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Venom Snake posted:I just think that you can accurately assess someone without using language that will immediately make people stop listening to you. Much in the same way calling everyone in the rural part of America racist backwards hicks turns them off calling people from the coastal jewish communities rats is going to turn them off to. You can be like "hey we need to be honest about the problems with race in the american rural community" and "we need to be honest that we can't really trust chuck schumer". No one called "the costal jewish communites" rats, they called one specific person a rat. That obtuseness is what turns people off.
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Nov 11, 2016 19:06
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Because all the historical data was telling them that educated people turn out to vote, and "uneducated" people don't. Therefore, uneducated working class whites didn't matter. Even after Trump was giving them every reason in the world to turn out and vote, just to spite the technocratic sociopaths who abandoned them. have I ever mentioned that I hate, hate, hate Robby Mook and that if I ever meet him in person I'm just going to start punching him and not stop until the Trumpstaffel drags me off of him? Christ, Trump owes this idiot a Presidential Medal of Freedom.
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Nov 11, 2016 19:05
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Venom Snake posted:Seriously it pisses me off when people suggest that we should lust for the days of when people died of ruined lungs and asbestos poisoning (but everyone had a job right?). We need to give these people a chance to enjoy the prosperity that others are getting to enjoy. Guaranteed minimum income. Programs to resettle people stuck in dead rural towns. Rebuilding of infrastructure. Bring them into the 21st Century; don't doom them to living in the 20th century forever. You need to speak to their actual interests and what prosperity means for them, and for a lot of them it does not mean "accumulating debt in a tiny rental apartment in the big city existing purely on the generosity of the government". Rebuilding infrastructure is good, sure, but again, a primary priority for not just these folks but everyone, something that the left always recognizes when it comes to minorities but seems to ignore here is: For a lot of them, they want to be respected, and to feel proud of who they are. They don't want to be told they have to give up everything they value about themselves to live the life someone else thinks would be better for them. If you want to bring them into the 21st Century, you need to give them a way to do that that actually takes their concerns and values into consideration - or changes them slowly enough that they can find something new to appreciate, Building windmill factories for them to work in, so they can use that money to support their families and accumulate wealth, however modest, over time, is one way to do that. Giving them a minimum income might help do that, but you need to be able to explain how because it's not immediately obvious. Moving them somewhere else seems like the exact opposite, and it's even worse for the people who don't want to move because now you're stealing away any chance of things getting better for them. Offer them something concrete, that actually applies to the things they want - don't expect them to figure out how your ideological generalist solutions will help them specifically. (and this is actually part of the mistake Bernie made in the primaries - he couldn't connect a lot of his genuinely good programs with concrete benefits for minorities. It's a flaw in his campaign and approach that we need to be fully aware of) We don't want to jump into an all new way of ignoring people in our rush to move leftward, by pretending we already know what they want without listening to them, or recognizing that they may have interests that are in fact varied and diverse and different from our own, or the same as our own but prioritized in different ways, or the same as our own and priotized in the same way but operating in a different context. GlyphGryph has issued a correction as of 19:09 on Nov 11, 2016 |
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Nov 11, 2016 19:06
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Thoguh posted:The rats fleeing a sinking ship metaphor has nothing to do with religion and tone policing regardless of context is part of why the Democrats are mocked. lol why is it so hard to just call chuck out for what he's done in the past and his lovely policies. comingafteryouall posted:Look up the Tennessee Valley Authority. Most of my family out west works for the government in land protection and wild life preservation. It's a job people have respected in the past but it's much less so now that BLM is synonymous with government tyranny or w/e
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Nov 11, 2016 19:06
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TyrantWD posted:Why would you guys want to fight for Ellison to be DNC chairman? That's largely a fundraising role, and for Democrats that's going to mean sucking up to millionaires in NYC and SF to get a fraction of the resources the RNC has. DWS already showed that if you control the purse strings, you control the party apparatus. And if you control the party apparatus, you control the 2020 nomination.
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Nov 11, 2016 19:08
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eunos posted:It's good to see that the Democrats are doing serious soul searching about why they lost, and how they can better promote their message in the future. There are a lot of people who's careers and ambitions depend on a clinton being in power. They can't help themselves.
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Nov 11, 2016 19:07
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Bernie also showed you can raise money and tell the millionaires to gently caress off.
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Nov 11, 2016 19:09
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SoupyTwist posted:No one called "the costal jewish communites" rats, they called one specific person a rat. That obtuseness is what turns people off. I'm not going to argue about this anymore. I'm just worried that the discourse is going to get really toxic. I'm sorry. Acelerion posted:There are a lot of people who's careers and ambitions depend on a clinton being in power. They can't help themselves. Guess what? Were all hosed now and Clinton hosed us. Hence us trying to figure out a new plan that doesn't involve the Clintons & friends anymore!
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Nov 11, 2016 19:11
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HannibalBarca posted:have I ever mentioned that I hate, hate, hate Robby Mook and that if I ever meet him in person I'm just going to start punching him and not stop until the Trumpstaffel drags me off of him? Christ, Trump owes this idiot a Presidential Medal of Freedom. Even when I was defending Clinton during the election I couldn't stand Robby Mook. Him and Podesta ate absolute poo poo every time they showed their faces on TV and there's no excuse for how bad and arrogant they acted and how safe they played it. Mook fueled Clinton secrecy problem by refusing to answer any loving questions and Podesta was almost as bad. Even at the height of my Clinton support I could never see how anyone could be convinced by anything they said
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Nov 11, 2016 19:10
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Thoguh posted:I was about to post something about how I agreed with you because Venom is trying but lacks the perspective they need to understand what happened because they're 20 and lack the life experiences and interactions with people they need to understand what's going on outside the DNC bubble. It is incredibly difficult to be deprogrammed from a lot of inherited wisdom and knowledge, which is also incredibly wrong. Venom just hasn't had those life experiences yet, and it's easier to understand him now knowing his age and background. The guy's got a lot of balls, and he deserves a break.
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Nov 11, 2016 19:10
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DaveWoo posted:
Sheng-ji Yang posted:gently caress off mom comingafteryouall posted:Martin O'Malley can gently caress off  MOM can kiss my rear end
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Nov 11, 2016 19:11
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A new DNC challenger approaches
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comingafteryouall posted:Look up the Tennessee Valley Authority. Exactly. Tell these people you're putting another IRS call center in NOVA and they'll bitch about government paychecks. Tell them you're building a factory in their town that is gonna pump out solar panels and they'll be building America's future? People who have been unemployed for 10 years are gonna sign up. Not everyone - you'll never get everyone. But you'll bring hope and good jobs to a great many people who need them.
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Nov 11, 2016 19:10
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Sylink posted:Bernie also showed you can raise money and tell the millionaires to gently caress off. Yep. #1 problem for the Democrats is they're credibility as looking out for the working class is shot among whites. You fix the fundraising apparatus, you fix the credibility issues.
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Nov 11, 2016 19:12
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A GIANT PARSNIP posted:Exactly. Tell these people you're putting another IRS call center in NOVA and they'll bitch about government paychecks. Tell them you're building a factory in their town that is gonna pump out solar panels and they'll be building America's future? People who have been unemployed for 10 years are gonna sign up. We need a lot more IRS call centers though. It's a job you can do from anywhere.
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Nov 11, 2016 19:16
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Why is it so fuckin' hard to find the person who votes for DNC stuff in NY?
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Nov 11, 2016 19:17
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Terror Sweat posted:if you want to see some clintonista salt go to https://www.reddit.com/r/Enough_Sanders_Spam/ Holy poo poo. I just got hypertension.
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Nov 11, 2016 19:16
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Grondoth posted:Why is it so fuckin' hard to find the person who votes for DNC stuff in NY? because their website is an absolute clusterfuck if you want to find out about something other then chuck schumer
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Nov 11, 2016 19:18
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Zikan posted:because their website is an absolute clusterfuck if you want to find out about something other then chuck schumer I know jesus christ With how fuckin' hard it was to vote in the primary and this BS maybe... maybe the NYS democratic party isn't all that democratic!!!!
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Nov 11, 2016 19:19
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Powercrazy posted:Holy poo poo. I just got hypertension. ITS STILL HER TURN! ITS STILL HER TURN! I repeat as I slowly turn into a corncob.
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Nov 11, 2016 19:18
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comingafteryouall posted:DWS already showed that if you control the purse strings, you control the party apparatus. DWS didn't give Hillary the nomination. The entire party did the minute the election was called for Obama in 2008. Hillary 2016 was practically written for stone for most Democrats. If Bernie had been a Democrat earlier - even from 2012, he likely would have been able to wrangle away some establishment support - like Obama did in his nomination fight, and when it became clear that the emails were going to be a critical problem, more party members would have felt comfortable jumping ship. Howard Dean should be the guy fundraising and building up a network to elect guys like Ellison, rather than Ellison being forced into the sausage making on behalf of what will likely otherwise be a centrist or center-right Democrat with access to deep pocketed donors.
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Nov 11, 2016 19:18
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Grondoth posted:Why is it so fuckin' hard to find the person who votes for DNC stuff in NY? One thing Sanders crowd could do is unfuck the fact so many of the state parties are a hot mess. also interesting: https://twitter.com/ryanlcooper/status/797140994219212801
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Nov 11, 2016 19:18
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Grondoth posted:Why is it so fuckin' hard to find the person who votes for DNC stuff in NY? They run New York so why be transparent? For real New York doesn't even have early voting right?
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Nov 11, 2016 19:19
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Atrocious Joe posted:They run New York so why be transparent? The sheer amount of unbridled hatred the NOVA/D.C. Dems have for NY Establishment right now would be downright hilarious if it wasn't to late.
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Nov 11, 2016 19:23
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I propose we change the phrase 'like a rat off a sinking ship' to 'like a Democrat voter off the Clinton campaign' not just to be more sensitive to the coastal Jewish communities but also to remind Venom Snake that he's a god drat idiot. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 11, 2016 19:22
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Atrocious Joe posted:They run New York so why be transparent? Yeah, we don't. I have no good explanation for it except that our state politics is a horrific mess of corruption and inertia.
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Nov 11, 2016 19:24
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Grondoth posted:Yeah, we don't. I have no good explanation for it except that our state politics is a horrific mess of corruption and inertia. my friend have u heard of illinois
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Nov 11, 2016 19:25
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https://twitter.com/daveweigel/status/797141594000527360 Does anyone know who made this "strategic decision" (an insult to both words)? Was it Mook? Clinton herself? Some unaccountable committee of nobodies whose names only a few dozen people know, or will ever know?
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Nov 11, 2016 19:25
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bump_fn posted:my friend have u heard of illinois Like the heads of both of our state legislatures got successfully prosecuted for corruption THIS YEAR Dean Skelos and Sheldon Silver. Senate and Assembly. We're hilariously dirty. Grondoth has issued a correction as of 19:28 on Nov 11, 2016 |
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Nov 11, 2016 19:25
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TyrantWD posted:DWS didn't give Hillary the nomination. The entire party did the minute the election was called for Obama in 2008. Hillary 2016 was practically written for stone for most Democrats. If Bernie had been a Democrat earlier - even from 2012, he likely would have been able to wrangle away some establishment support - like Obama did in his nomination fight, and when it became clear that the emails were going to be a critical problem, more party members would have felt comfortable jumping ship. 1. We should do everything we can to marginalize deep-pocketed donors and build a sustainable, broad base of low-dollar donations. 2. The DNC could save a shitload of money by never buying another TV ad ever again.
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Nov 11, 2016 19:25
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HannibalBarca posted:https://twitter.com/daveweigel/status/797141594000527360 war by committee prob
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Nov 11, 2016 19:27
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