The Flash Season 3 - "Man, that cannot be SCIENCE."

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > TV IV > The Flash Season 3 - "Man, that cannot be SCIENCE."

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Guy Goodbody: Aug 31, 2016; by Nyc_Tattoo

This show isn't terrific but it's a far cry from the amazing terribleness of late Dexter and Under the Dome

# ? Nov 25, 2016 07:30

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# ? May 15, 2024 03:24

MiddleOne: Feb 17, 2011

Guy Goodbody posted:

This show isn't terrific but it's a far cry from the amazing terribleness of late Dexter and Under the Dome

The writing is certainly getting there, people seem to forget that Dexter was actually a really good and ambitious show at some point.

# ? Nov 25, 2016 07:34

Aphrodite: Jun 27, 2006

Nope, always bad. You've been wrong this whole time.

# ? Nov 25, 2016 07:43

MiddleOne: Feb 17, 2011

Aphrodite posted:

Nope, always bad. You've been wrong this whole time.

Stop gaslighting me :mad:

Seriously though, go back and watch season 1. Ostensibly, it's mostly the same characters, sets, music and themes that the following 7 seasons re-hashed until oblivion. However, upon closer inspection there's also interesting cinematography, non-recycled dialogue and even prestige style (of which we've had a lot this year but certainly not back then) experimental episodes. It still stands very well on its own. The biggest way that the later seasons detracts from it though is the soundtrack as 3-5 of the tracks are re-used in the subsequent seasons to the point where you'll mentally groan every time they play.

So, in conclusion

# ? Nov 25, 2016 08:07

crepeface: Nov 5, 2004; r*p*f*c*

I rolled my eyes at Dexter so much I stopped watching it midway through season 1.

The characters/narrative on this show have never been nuanced, I just liked how effective Killer Frost was.

# ? Nov 25, 2016 13:29

Aphrodite: Jun 27, 2006

MiddleOne posted:

Stop gaslighting me

Seriously though, go back and watch season 1. Ostensibly, it's mostly the same characters, sets, music and themes that the following 7 seasons re-hashed until oblivion. However, upon closer inspection there's also interesting cinematography, non-recycled dialogue and even prestige style (of which we've had a lot this year but certainly not back then) experimental episodes. It still stands very well on its own. The biggest way that the later seasons detracts from it though is the soundtrack as 3-5 of the tracks are re-used in the subsequent seasons to the point where you'll mentally groan every time they play.

So, in conclusion

The Flash, not Dexter.

# ? Nov 25, 2016 14:35

MiddleOne: Feb 17, 2011

Aphrodite posted:

The Flash, not Dexter.

I don't know why this didn't occur to me. :raise:

# ? Nov 25, 2016 15:29

Pastrymancy: Feb 20, 2011; 11:13: Despite Gio Gonzalez warning, "Never mix your sparkling juices," Bryce Harper opens another bottle of sparkling grape and mixes it with sparkling cider.

1:07: Harper walks to the 7-11 and orders an all-syrup Slurpee.

1:10-3:05: Harper has no recollection of this time. Aliens?

I think I just wanted to see Barry get verbally owned at some point please do not take this away from me

# ? Nov 25, 2016 15:55

Writh: Dec 31, 2008; Big D's chillin' over here, wasteland style

MiddleOne posted:

Am I operating on a different plane of reality from the rest of you? The Killer Frost diatribe was the worst written villain turn I have ever seen. The episode basically went like this,

1. I'm normal Caitlyn but oh no I have too use my poooooweeeers I'll go craaaaaazy
2. I'm Killer Frost and I'm just going to murder this Alchemy henchmen and try to kill Julian now because craaaaaaazy
3. I'm Killer Frost but I can't kill precious Barry who I horrifyingly maimed and tried to freeze to death just 10 minutes ago because who knows
4. I'm now normal Caitlyn again after a stern talking to, everything is forgotten and my personality is back where it started! Motivations? Who needs 'em.

Clearly this was a nuanced, complex and completely logical character development that could not have been done in any better way. We even have a villain this season who's entire superpower is his ability to turn anyone into a villain regardless of their character motivation, so why would they go for this? I get it, they've been teasing her turn for forever and this is something that they've really wanted to do but why can't they even try to come up with actual reasons for things happening? Oh wait no, this is a procedural which means that any character not a guest-actor can't ever lose screen-time for any reason. Can't give anyone actual motivations because then that reset button wouldn't be so easy to hit at the end of the episode.

Ah forget it. What I hate about this show is that unlike Arrow (which has been garbage masked by ok action scenes all along) and Legends of Tomorrow (which is great now that it's fully self-aware) it actually seemed like a decent show at some point instead of the garbage we've been fed since the season 1 finale. This show is on my short list of shows, like Dexter and Under the Dome, that I follow solely to see just how deep the rabbit hole goes.

Didn't they mention that her powers were messing with her brain chemistry or am I miss remembering.

# ? Nov 25, 2016 16:55

MiddleOne: Feb 17, 2011

Bad writing cannot fail, it can only be failed.

# ? Nov 25, 2016 17:00

LinkesAuge: Sep 7, 2011

Writh posted:

Didn't they mention that her powers were messing with her brain chemistry or am I miss remembering.

Which only makes it worse because now superpowers are some kind of sickness that make you crazy/evil? That's opening a can of worms.

# ? Nov 25, 2016 17:31

8one6: May 20, 2012; When in doubt, err on the side of Awesome!

LinkesAuge posted:

Which only makes it worse because now superpowers are some kind of sickness that make you crazy/evil? That's opening a can of worms.

I have to assume they're doing that to set up why the show will have to take away Caitlyn & Wally's powers during the season finale.
You know, because heaven forbid we have more than one superhero per superhero show. What do you think this is, Legends of Tomorrow?

In a semi-related thought: Post-Flashpoint do they still have Black Siren locked up in the no-lunch supermax?

# ? Nov 25, 2016 17:40

Aphrodite: Jun 27, 2006

8one6 posted:

In a semi-related thought: Post-Flashpoint do they still have Black Siren locked up in the no-lunch supermax?

Unclear.

But they've said Katie Cassidy is playing multiple characters this season, so likely.

# ? Nov 25, 2016 17:52

Chokes McGee: Aug 7, 2008; This is Urotsuki.

MiddleOne posted:

Am I operating on a different plane of reality from the rest of you? The Killer Frost diatribe was the worst written villain turn I have ever seen. The episode basically went like this,

1. I'm normal Caitlyn but oh no I have too use my poooooweeeers I'll go craaaaaazy
2. I'm Killer Frost and I'm just going to murder this Alchemy henchmen and try to kill Julian now because craaaaaaazy
3. I'm Killer Frost but I can't kill precious Barry who I horrifyingly maimed and tried to freeze to death just 10 minutes ago because who knows
4. I'm now normal Caitlyn again after a stern talking to, everything is forgotten and my personality is back where it started! Motivations? Who needs 'em.

Clearly this was a nuanced, complex and completely logical character development that could not have been done in any better way. We even have a villain this season who's entire superpower is his ability to turn anyone into a villain regardless of their character motivation, so why would they go for this? I get it, they've been teasing her turn for forever and this is something that they've really wanted to do but why can't they even try to come up with actual reasons for things happening? Oh wait no, this is a procedural which means that any character not a guest-actor can't ever lose screen-time for any reason. Can't give anyone actual motivations because then that reset button wouldn't be so easy to hit at the end of the episode.

Ah forget it. What I hate about this show is that unlike Arrow (which has been garbage masked by ok action scenes all along) and Legends of Tomorrow (which is great now that it's fully self-aware) it actually seemed like a decent show at some point instead of the garbage we've been fed since the season 1 finale. This show is on my short list of shows, like Dexter and Under the Dome, that I follow solely to see just how deep the rabbit hole goes.

sir. sir I just asked if you wanted to make it a combo meal

# ? Nov 25, 2016 18:28

Doktor Per: Feb 26, 2007; Look guys, I'm a lady!

MiddleOne posted:

Am I operating on a different plane of reality from the rest of you? The Killer Frost diatribe was the worst written villain turn I have ever seen. The episode basically went like this,

1. I'm normal Caitlyn but oh no I have too use my poooooweeeers I'll go craaaaaazy
2. I'm Killer Frost and I'm just going to murder this Alchemy henchmen and try to kill Julian now because craaaaaaazy
3. I'm Killer Frost but I can't kill precious Barry who I horrifyingly maimed and tried to freeze to death just 10 minutes ago because who knows
4. I'm now normal Caitlyn again after a stern talking to, everything is forgotten and my personality is back where it started! Motivations? Who needs 'em.

Clearly this was a nuanced, complex and completely logical character development that could not have been done in any better way. We even have a villain this season who's entire superpower is his ability to turn anyone into a villain regardless of their character motivation, so why would they go for this? I get it, they've been teasing her turn for forever and this is something that they've really wanted to do but why can't they even try to come up with actual reasons for things happening? Oh wait no, this is a procedural which means that any character not a guest-actor can't ever lose screen-time for any reason. Can't give anyone actual motivations because then that reset button wouldn't be so easy to hit at the end of the episode.

Ah forget it. What I hate about this show is that unlike Arrow (which has been garbage masked by ok action scenes all along) and Legends of Tomorrow (which is great now that it's fully self-aware) it actually seemed like a decent show at some point instead of the garbage we've been fed since the season 1 finale. This show is on my short list of shows, like Dexter and Under the Dome, that I follow solely to see just how deep the rabbit hole goes.

She had plenty of opportunities to murder Barry and literally took none of them. She's a medical doctor with intimate knowledge of Barry's physiology and has treated / observed him being frozen.

I think you just want her to have no motivation. Like, I'm very meh on Caitlyn as a character, but this is literally the first storyline she's been a part of that I feel makes a bit of sense.

# ? Nov 25, 2016 19:06

Writh: Dec 31, 2008; Big D's chillin' over here, wasteland style

LinkesAuge posted:

Which only makes it worse because now superpowers are some kind of sickness that make you crazy/evil? That's opening a can of worms.

I don't recall them saying that for anyone else and they have observed other metas. I think HER powers specifically come with the added bonus of it messing with her mind. While we may talk about how evil Barry is and how murder happy he is, in the context of the story all of his violent acts were justified by those around him showing he wasn't slipping into some kind of evil persona. Seems like an inordinate amount of douchebags got powers for the most part. A lot of pre-collider footage of folks showing them already being criminals or someone directly screwing them over or hammering them, causing them to go on a rampage once they have powers.

Basically her powers are kinda like that kid that got super strength but it was making him old. She gets ice powers and it makes her more and more mentally unstable.

# ? Nov 25, 2016 20:16

AbsolutelySane: Jul 2, 2012

Writh posted:

I don't recall them saying that for anyone else and they have observed other metas. I think HER powers specifically come with the added bonus of it messing with her mind. While we may talk about how evil Barry is and how murder happy he is, in the context of the story all of his violent acts were justified by those around him showing he wasn't slipping into some kind of evil persona. Seems like an inordinate amount of douchebags got powers for the most part. A lot of pre-collider footage of folks showing them already being criminals or someone directly screwing them over or hammering them, causing them to go on a rampage once they have powers.

Basically her powers are kinda like that kid that got super strength but it was making him old. She gets ice powers and it makes her more and more mentally unstable.

Dr. Jekyl/Mr. Hyde is a fairly popular comic book go to, even encompassing a hero or two (Hulk, Ghost Rider). I don't really expect any kind of feasible explanation for why having cold powers turns you into a psycopath, but we already have 'Speed Force!' so it doesn't bother me that much. You also have Frankie/Magenta, who seemed to have a similar issue with her powers. Maybe it's a side effect of Flashpoint?

# ? Nov 25, 2016 20:54

Inkspot: Dec 3, 2013; I believe I have
an appointment.
Mr. Goongala?

All that melodrama and no blue corset? Flash, you've failed me again.

# ? Nov 26, 2016 00:42

Ojjeorago: Sep 21, 2008; I had a dream, too. It wasn't pleasant, though ... I dreamt I was a moron...; Gary’s Answer

What if Savitar is the evil half of Barry's personality that he's subconsciously started manifesting out of Goes Fast because of guilt over Flashpoint?

# ? Nov 26, 2016 01:10

Aphrodite: Jun 27, 2006

With the help of Julian who he has freed from Savitar's control, Barry is able to finally corner the God of Speed.

He dashes in for the fight, when suddenly Savitar flickers a few times and disappears. Barry is hit by a taser and falls to the ground convulsing, and the fat kid from the monster episode stands over him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOugNisFgVo

# ? Nov 26, 2016 01:17

FactsAreUseless: Feb 16, 2011

Aphrodite posted:

With the help of Julian who he has freed from Savitar's control, Barry is able to finally corner the God of Speed.

He dashes in for the fight, when suddenly Savitar flickers a few times and disappears. Barry is hit by a taser and falls to the ground convulsing, and the fat kid from the monster episode stands over him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOugNisFgVo

Lmfao

# ? Nov 26, 2016 01:44

Longbaugh01: Jul 13, 2001; "Surprise, muthafucka."

MiddleOne posted:

Bad writing cannot fail, it can only be failed.

YOU HAVE FAILED THIS BAD WRITING!

# ? Nov 26, 2016 02:22

Synthwave Crusader: Feb 13, 2011

The Caitlin thing is definitely a result of her having come face to face with her E-2 doppelganger and being completely terrified of what she can become if she's not careful with using her powers.

Not that loving hard to tell guys.

# ? Nov 26, 2016 04:23

STAC Goat: Mar 12, 2008; Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.

Yeah, for now I'm dismissing all the "her powers are changing her brain chemistry" as stupid things her loved ones (who are NOT biochemists) make up to try and excuse her behavior and in reality she was just having a bit of a mental break because she thought she was literally turning into her evil twin who she had met. That poo poo is kind of traumatic. A lot of the metahumans can be chalked up to people who lost their poo poo after gaining powers and Team Flash just didn't get to them until after they'd committed all their crimes. In Caitlin's case they were able to get through to her before she did something really bad.

Now if the show decides to go full Silver Age and just say "her heart is turned cold by her powers" then I'll laugh when that happens. But for now I'm going with "metaphor" until proven otherwise.

And yeah, Julian seems to be similarly conflicted. I'm fine with him being Alchemy because its basically what people were saying they should have just done with Jay/Hunter/Zoom and not try and turn it into some hugely emotional betrayal. Julian was always the top suspect for both story and meta reasons and now we know. Now the question is who Savitar is, what the connection between him and Julian is, and what Julian's full motivations are. Because I can definitely see anything from Julian being a slave to Savitar to Savitar being a delusion/construct of Julian's Alchemy powers and mental illness. Which could play right into the theme of "getting powers fucks with your head."

# ? Nov 26, 2016 04:58

Aphrodite: Jun 27, 2006

I'm sure this murder will prevent me from becoming a bad guy.

# ? Nov 26, 2016 05:04

STAC Goat: Mar 12, 2008; Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.

I too expect people experiencing psychotic breaks to behave rationally.

Edit: And drat, Under the Dome and Dexter levels? Now we're saying things we can't take back.

STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 05:16 on Nov 26, 2016

# ? Nov 26, 2016 05:10

Aphrodite: Jun 27, 2006

Psychosomatic eye color change. it's a big problem.

There's literally a visual cue for her bad guy moments.

# ? Nov 26, 2016 05:17

Chokes McGee: Aug 7, 2008; This is Urotsuki.

Aphrodite posted:

Psychosomatic eye color change. it's a big problem.

There's literally a visual cue for her bad guy moments.

*eyes turn silver as I post this* You do not want to troll me. Now, or ever.

# ? Nov 26, 2016 05:20

MiddleOne: Feb 17, 2011

Aphrodite posted:

I'm sure this murder will prevent me from becoming a bad guy.

Barry Allen sure seems to think so.

# ? Nov 26, 2016 05:27

Medullah: Aug 14, 2003; FEAR MY SHARK ROCKET IT REALLY SUCKS AND BLOWS

Clearly this season is setting up a Saw/Flash crossover what with Alchemy being Jigsaw. Last year Zoom was Candyman.

# ? Nov 26, 2016 07:23

Chokes McGee: Aug 7, 2008; This is Urotsuki.

Medullah posted:

Clearly this season is setting up a Saw/Flash crossover what with Alchemy being Jigsaw. Last year Zoom was Candyman.

And the year before that, Reverse Flash wss Harrison Wells.

# ? Nov 26, 2016 18:46

Tiggum: Oct 24, 2007; Your life and your quest end here.

The Lord Bude posted:

Nah that's like a pleasant spring day. Warm enough that you can sleep comfortably with just a sheet, but not actually hot, so you aren't marinating in your own sweat and waking up choking, unable to breath with a raging headache.

The only reason you should ever set the temperature in your house to 30 is if it's 40 outside.

Spergatory posted:

Likewise, how many times can a semi-trusted friend turn out to secretly be the bad guy? Everyone and their mother called this. The only hope for that storyline now is that Julian doesn't seem to be all that into it. Personally, I'm still holding out hope for a Jekyll/Hyde situation.

I'm thinking it's more like Buffy season 5 Ben/Glory situation, where he knows he turns into Alchemy, but not willingly, and he'd like to stop Alchemy but doesn't want to put himself in danger.

shades of eternity posted:

So when does snart return so leonard and kaitlyn can compete for the guiness book of records for the most ice related puns in one show?

Get Arnold Schwarzenegger to reprise his role as Mr Freeze and you'd have the best episode of television ever made.

MiddleOne posted:

The Killer Frost diatribe was the worst written villain turn I have ever seen.

At least they've given her something to do this season other than hang around in the background with fake Jay.

8one6 posted:

Post-Flashpoint do they still have Black Siren locked up in the no-lunch supermax?

They should copy Scream Queens and let her out to be an adviser to the team. It wouldn't be any dumber than their usual plans.

# ? Nov 27, 2016 12:43

spookygonk: Apr 3, 2005; Does not give a damn

Can I ask when did Greg Grunberg get fat?

# ? Nov 27, 2016 22:14

Rhyno: Mar 22, 2003; Can't post for 10 years!

spookygonk posted:

Can I ask when did Greg Grunberg get fat?

When he turned 13.

# ? Nov 28, 2016 00:13

nooneofconsequence: Oct 30, 2012; she had tiny Italian boobs.
Well that's my story.

spookygonk posted:

Can I ask when did Greg Grunberg get fat?

Probably as a child.

# ? Nov 28, 2016 00:15

Ojjeorago: Sep 21, 2008; I had a dream, too. It wasn't pleasant, though ... I dreamt I was a moron...; Gary’s Answer

He looked even fatter than normal, so I assume in the changed history caused by Flashpoint he never said no to those extra donuts.

# ? Nov 28, 2016 02:37

Medullah: Aug 14, 2003; FEAR MY SHARK ROCKET IT REALLY SUCKS AND BLOWS

In Heroes Reborn he was pretty chunky. Pretty sure he's just a goony neckbeard who lucked into a few roles and now he gets to be in every nerd movie and show he wants to be

# ? Nov 28, 2016 02:44

bobkatt013: Oct 8, 2006; Youâre telling me Peter Parker is ...... Spider-man!?

Medullah posted:

In Heroes Reborn he was pretty chunky. Pretty sure he's just a goony neckbeard who lucked into a few roles and now he gets to be in every nerd movie and show he wants to be

Its called being JJ Abrams friend

# ? Nov 28, 2016 02:46

Rhyno: Mar 22, 2003; Can't post for 10 years!

Medullah posted:

In Heroes Reborn he was pretty chunky. Pretty sure he's just a goony neckbeard who lucked into a few roles and now he gets to be in every nerd movie and show he wants to be

While watching Star Trek Beyond I was pretty blown away by the scale of their new space station. Then it started talked and I realized it was Greg Grunberg.

# ? Nov 28, 2016 03:28

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# ? May 15, 2024 03:24

Medullah: Aug 14, 2003; FEAR MY SHARK ROCKET IT REALLY SUCKS AND BLOWS

Rhyno posted:

While watching Star Trek Beyond I was pretty blown away by the scale of their new space station. Then it started talked and I realized it was Greg Grunberg.

Grunberg to star as Unicron in next Transformers movie. No CGI required.

# ? Nov 28, 2016 03:30

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > TV IV > The Flash Season 3 - "Man, that cannot be SCIENCE."

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