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Did I actually just have to fight The Bloat on the first floor
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Jan 4, 2017 13:10
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Alteisen posted:Yes, forever. No, not forever. Unlocking the achievement just allows regular half hearts to be replaced by half soul hearts in the same way that full hearts could be replaced before. Evidence: I unlocked the achievement and got a full soul heart drop on the same loving run. Predictably, defeating Satan and the Lamb as Apollyon unlocks the remaining Locusts. Killing the new end boss doesn't appear to unlock anything, though. I didn't even get an achievement for it. Maybe because I did it on a victory lap?
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Jan 4, 2017 13:30
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CJacobs posted:Did I actually just have to fight The Bloat on the first floor Are you doing Aprils fool? e: That new boss is spooky! I don't think he's beatable with the lost without some luck or damage mitigation / avoidance, because of how fast he moves and how he blinks in and out.
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Jan 4, 2017 13:34
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So I'm guessing April Fool's randomizes pickups at the start of each run? Because I just had a run where every coin gave me Golden Black Hearts. I literally just ran into everything and watched things die, picked up the coins and went back to full health again. Rinse and repeat. Also, if anyone can figure out how to properly import AB saves into this one, I'm forever in your debt. I tried disabling Steam Cloud, put my appropriate save files into the Afterbirth save file location, the new save game folder, copied back and forth to no avail. It simply refuses to import my game. And honestly this feels like too a bit too much to do on a fresh save file.
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Jan 4, 2017 13:41
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The Pong challenge was actually, well, fun! I was expecting it to have some bullshit like 'you have to keep bouncing tears off Isaac's body or you die' because that's the kind of bullshit direction the game's been headed in since Rebirth. But no, just a good, simple combination of items with clear direction. So odds are someone else came up with this one. I also found out in this run that quad shot and triple shot stack, something I never knew before!
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Jan 4, 2017 14:08
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Wugga posted:So I'm guessing April Fool's randomizes pickups at the start of each run? Because I just had a run where every coin gave me Golden Black Hearts. I literally just ran into everything and watched things die, picked up the coins and went back to full health again. Rinse and repeat. My save just worked. 
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Jan 4, 2017 14:18
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Wugga posted:For the record, I have almost 1200 hours clocked in and I've found myself disagreeing with nearly every complaint people made when Afterbirth was released because I never found the game to be difficult. The complaints that I've seen (and made) haven't been about difficulty though; it's about fairness. I don't have problem finishing runs, I just think it's dumb and not fun to take unavoidable damage. In addition to the increasingly less skill-based gameplay, there have been a ton of unfun items added to the pools which means the actual good and fun items are fewer and farther between, and some things like pills are just never worth taking anymore. Afterbirth+ does all of this and cranks it up to 11.
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Jan 4, 2017 14:41
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The new boss that's two 1/4th room-sized thingies that hop back and forth and shoot half-a-room-wide brimstone lasers from one corner to the opposite corner that sometimes sweep up or down and sometimes don't is the most Edmund McMillen thing I have ever seen
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Jan 4, 2017 14:43
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Jedit posted:Predictably, defeating Satan and the Lamb as Apollyon unlocks the remaining Locusts. Killing the new end boss doesn't appear to unlock anything, though. I didn't even get an achievement for it. Maybe because I did it on a victory lap? Yea sounds like victory lap is not for unlocking things, being a victory lap and all. After my first final boss kill i got an achievement and a new item unlock. Even my post-it note is bloody which i guess means the final boss kill, BUT it didn't register on the post-it note my satan/lamb kills that i did on the same run lol
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Jan 4, 2017 14:58
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My main issue with the current BoI design path is that it became VERY snowbally, even for BoI. Back during WotL and Rebirth, the hardest thing you'd see in the first few floors was what, a Pestilence? More often that not you'd get to sleepwalk your way thru Basement and Caves regardless of what you picked, which allowed you to try out some fun item combinations or salvage a bad start because the treasure room in Caves II gave you 20/20 or something. Nowadays it feels like you start with less damage output than you need to clear those first floors, and although you can STILL salvage a bad start, it feels like a CHORE, and it just keeps getting worse the less lucky you are. Didn't have enough damage output to take care of a double portal room? Sorry, take this hit, no Devil Deal for you. Were you low on life and not willing to risk the run for exploration? Welp, you're out of keys now, and also soul hearts. Oh, this room would be trivial if you had better items, but you don't so miss out on even more items. It doesn't help that nowadays I quite often hit 6min on Basement alone because the game decided to give me a bunch of XL rooms in a row. Also Wugga, no offense meant, but "1.3k logged and I'm an Isaac savant" is a TERRIBLE benchmark for even mediocre players like myself when it comes to balance. I feel like I played this game a TON and the only reason I haven't done a full clear is because I can't be bothered to bash my head against Hush as The Keeper (also game deleted some of my completed challenges), and I still have literally 1000 HOURS to go before I touch you. edit: that being said Pong is really fun. I just beat Delirium as Isaac and god that boss makes no sense and is a badly designed mess. The form changes are cool but the teleporting felt random as gently caress.
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Jan 4, 2017 15:00
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The portals haven't felt that difficult to kill to me, even on the first floor. I like that they force you to try and focus-fire something. I guess they could be a problem if they're located within a chokepoint but that seems fixable.
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Jan 4, 2017 15:10
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Rebirth: The game finally runs without us doing dark voodoo and crossing our fingers to get Flash to just compile! Afterbirth: For every 2-3 positive changes there's 1 negative change Afterbirth+: For every positive item/change, there's 2-3 pieces of bullshit. I at least thought the Backasswards and Pokeymans challenges were at least interesting ideas. With the exception of Ultrahard and "Bloat everywhere" the new challenges at least seem fun and creative instead of Afterbirth's "let's see how punishing we can make these".
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Jan 4, 2017 15:10
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Irony Be My Shield posted:The portals haven't felt that difficult to kill to me, even on the first floor. I like that they force you to try and focus-fire something. I guess they could be a problem if they're located within a chokepoint but that seems fixable. We've been saying "but that seems fixable" since the days of the original Flash BoI, I think it's time to acknowledge that it's never gonna happen. The spawners that are placed inside chokes are placed like that because Edmund wants you to take damage killing them. Snowball or die.
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Jan 4, 2017 15:17
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Well that was disappointing. I submitted my refund request for whatever that's worth. If they weren't going to add anything of value in the process of adding mod support, it would have been nice if they'd at least refrained from actively making GBS threads on the game.
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Jan 4, 2017 15:21
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Your Computer posted:We've been saying "but that seems fixable" since the days of the original Flash BoI, I think it's time to acknowledge that it's never gonna happen. Well, presumably we have mod tools to edit that poo poo now so people don't have to hope edmund fixes it.
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Jan 4, 2017 15:23
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Your Computer posted:The complaints that I've seen (and made) haven't been about difficulty though; it's about fairness. I don't have problem finishing runs, I just think it's dumb and not fun to take unavoidable damage. In addition to the increasingly less skill-based gameplay, there have been a ton of unfun items added to the pools which means the actual good and fun items are fewer and farther between, and some things like pills are just never worth taking anymore. Now that I've played a bit more, I'm leaning towards this myself. I really, really want to like it and I'm not going to refund it in hopes there will be balance changes. As I said, I never understood the complaints made about AB being unfair, because I found the increase in challenge to BE fair. Some of it was flat out annoying, to be sure, but I could easily win 99% of my runs with any character. With AB+, it seems, most of the challenge stems from fighting attrition. Too many enemies on screen at any given time, moving in different ways while the room layout doesn't allow for dodging everything. This is especially bad in earlier floors with Void portals. As for the new items, I can't say anything as they have been few and far between and sometimes they don't appear to do anything!
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Jan 4, 2017 15:34
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Some of the new items are neat. Booger tears are hilarious (they stick to an enemy and deal poison damage based off of your damage for up to 60 seconds). Also the Dull Blade is literally built for game breaking as far as I can tell (Isaac "suffers" all the effects of taking damage without actually taking damage. So if you have Gimpy, Fanny Pack or Piggy Bank...)
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Jan 4, 2017 15:41
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Wugga posted:As I said, I never understood the complaints made about AB being unfair, because I found the increase in challenge to BE fair. Some of it was flat out annoying, to be sure, but I could easily win 99% of my runs with any character. I think you misunderstand my use of fair. "Fair" in this context doesn't mean whether or not a run is winnable (like you say, that's not really the big issue) but whether any run is winnable. The essential litmus test for this would be "Is it possible to clear the entire game with zero items without taking any damage, through skill and skill alone?" You could also ask yourself after every damage taken (and by extension, every death) "Was this due to a fault of my own?" This is why The Lost seemed very interesting to a lot of us when he was released; If such a character exists, then surely the game must be (or strives to be) objectively fair? Of course, this was not the case. The Binding of Isaac used to be very close to being objectively fair, which is what drew a lot of us to it. A few tweaks here and there to change rooms with unavoidable damage or damage/flight checks and that's it. However, with every content patch since the game first came out they've moved further and further away from this and it's pretty clear at this point that Ed never intended the game to be like that. Probably because it's actually very difficult to design encounters that are both challenging and completely fair.
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Jan 4, 2017 15:55
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lol people say that about every isaac game/patch and then three months later streamers are getting like 300 win streaks
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Jan 4, 2017 15:58
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I have no doubt the dudes who play BoI for their livelihood will be able to adapt to this new difficulty curve, but I'm not sure if it's wise to expect the majority of the playerbase to have that level of time investment.
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Jan 4, 2017 16:41
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This add on sucks. Why is everything so goddamn strong? It's just a boring slog.
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Jan 4, 2017 16:52
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Man I don't even give much of a gently caress about fair, I just don't want to spend eight minutes slowly grinding down a bullet sponge that shits out bullet sponges [that dies and turns into a bullet sponge] every second room. Then because one of the bullet sponges landed a hit you don't get any of the cool items so hey enjoy this Mom's Lipstick and say hi to the Ragman for me bro.
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Jan 4, 2017 16:53
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Edmund is already saying that they'll change how common portals and stone fatties are. I think this has started off a little rougher than Afterbirth, but I also think they'll get it to a point where I couldn't imagine going back to the game without it over the next month or two. Yeah, that's not an ok way for a release to work, and I don't see how Greedier mode ever loving made it out of any sort of playtesting, but it is what it is. I like the game enough to put up with it.
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Jan 4, 2017 16:59
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Typical day one teething so complaining about difficulty right now seems pointless. poo poo will get rebalanced as always happens once games like this get put in the wild. Apollyon is fun, though like Lilith he's mostly an item gimmick though that's fine by me. The Void chapter looks kind of lazy but the boss seems cool though I have no idea how I'll beat it with The Lost or Keeper. Haven't even beaten Hush with Keeper yet. It does feel like an un fun push towards doing Hush runs. Getting items from the other boss fights is decent incentive but still leaves me feeling less buzzed than I'd have hoped. Nice they let GameTheory write the ending as well. (I actually like the theory but something about having it "confirmed" feels off.) For the price and a bit of wait for rebalancing it's not bad but as others have said, the release of Antibirth destroyed AB+s chances of looking anything other than mediocre. The baby Monstro's might just be to fuciking cute as well.
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Jan 4, 2017 17:22
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Every Isaac release has been buggy or had dumb stuff in it at launch, this one doesn't feel particularly better or worse than the others. It mostly gets fixed within a month or so. Antibirth is still far more interesting than this in pretty much every aspect though.
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Jan 4, 2017 17:22
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you guys completely forgot what a dumpster fire the afterbirth launch was way more technical problems, and entire sections of the game were completely inaccessible at least in ab+ you can make it to delirium and kill him on launch day!
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Jan 4, 2017 17:26
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ChibiSoma posted:Is there anyone genuinely happy with AB+? If so... uh... why? Well, I'm happy because I'm looking forward to the monthly additions. 
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Jan 4, 2017 17:29
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I mean, it's not hard to "rebalance" AB+. Make portals less common (and more fragile), make Stone Fatties less common (also slower), fuckin' tone Greedier mode down because holy poo poo, make Delirium stop teleporting immediately, banish the Vis Sisters to the Shadow Realm, make Big Horn a Depths at minimum boss (I'd like more time on their tells too but I'll take what I can get). That's most of my complaints solved. Oh, surprise spiked chests are stupid, take that out too.
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Jan 4, 2017 17:41
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The funny thing about the Sisters Vis is that they're actually cut content from Rebirth... except that they were originally intended to be a Sheol fight.
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Jan 4, 2017 17:47
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There needs to be a mod that checks if you're playing as Lilith and if so, disables stone fatties entirely. I just had a run as her where I was physically unable to kill some regenerating enemies because of them. Because of how she works, none of her shots can stand a chance of getting through, and unless you get some upgrades, you have a hard enough time knocking the regenerators down, let alone killing them.
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Jan 4, 2017 17:57
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Dias posted:That's most of my complaints solved. Oh, surprise spiked chests are stupid, take that out too. Edmund says he'll add a slight visual tell which is. .. something, I guess.
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Jan 4, 2017 17:58
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Sisters Vis = 800x2 HP Mom = 645 HP Such balance, such fun.
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Jan 4, 2017 18:15
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Saigyouji posted:The funny thing about the Sisters Vis is that they're actually cut content from Rebirth... except that they were originally intended to be a Sheol fight. Everything is such a loving hit sponge. And portals suck. I hope that Edmund... who's kidding who, he won't ever just nerf everything's HP across the board to make the game more fun.
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Jan 4, 2017 18:17
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Alkydere posted:Also the Dull Blade is literally built for game breaking as far as I can tell (Isaac "suffers" all the effects of taking damage without actually taking damage. So if you have Gimpy, Fanny Pack or Piggy Bank...) It's only every other room. You need the Habit and the Car Battery as well to make it super-good. Here's another seed for you to try if you're frustrated and want to see motherfuckers melt before you: ADBN AV8M Isaac, you'll get the Mulligan early followed by Poly/Proptosis and a ton of Tears Up stuff. Judicious re-rolls got me both Leviathan and Guppy in Mom's Devil Room, and a final re-roll in the Void just before the end boss gave me Soy Milk.
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Jan 4, 2017 18:19
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I wonder if the mod tools are separated from Afterbirth+. Trying to balance Rebirth or Afterbirth might be a fun enough job, but if you can only mod Afterbirth+ then it seems like... too much work.
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Jan 4, 2017 18:25
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Afterbirth+: Hope you find piercing shots on the first or second floor!
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Jan 4, 2017 18:27
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https://twitter.com/edmundmcmillen/status/816682664312700928 https://twitter.com/edmundmcmillen/status/816683431081848833 https://twitter.com/edmundmcmillen/status/816683676096307200 At least he's listening?  I feel like once the mods get rolling and antibirth is ported over this might be a good game, maybe. For now it's... rough.
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Jan 4, 2017 18:27
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I'm honestly wondering if Antibirth will actually get ported now. The dev team were less than happy with AB+.
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Jan 4, 2017 18:32
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It's ok guys AB+ is saved thanks to the modding community http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=834207462
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Jan 4, 2017 18:34
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super vis is some super cool boss design
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