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Your Computer
Oct 3, 2008




Grimey Drawer

TerminalRaptor posted:

I play games to relax and unwind and this game just feels more and more like work with its brokenness as time goes on.

This is why I disabled the new DLC and I don't regret it :shobon: BoI is a fantastic game to play mindlessly, so it has been one of my favorite ways of unwinding. The expansions have all upped the difficulty and each one has added some amount of BS however, and there's no way to avoid other than disabling the DLC unfortunately. I still really wish they'd keep the harder stuff like the alternate floors/bosses, spawners, stone fatties etc. to hard mode so we could at least have normal mode if we just wanted to chill.

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Black August
Sep 28, 2003

I just grabbed a 100% file because I do not have the time and patience for the raw ugly tedium this game has become caked with. It's nice enough to start up Eden with some eggs on (get hosed curses), get 4 items right off, and do a few runs for a bit, but man my energy for this nonsense has dried up. There's so many enemies now that just fling bullets everywhere, split into more enemies when they die, spread bullets when they die, portals dumping more and more on you, huge room after huge room with shitloads of enemies that take forever the kill, it's just so goddamn boring and it doesn't have to be.

Sometimes I feel like you could solve some of the problems by forcing up everyone's base damage to Judas level and forcing at least one damage-up to drop per two floors or so, instead of endlessly praying that something reasonably useful falls out of the gigantic item pool while you get ground down by screens and screens of enemies.

Wugga
Oct 30, 2006

I BEAT MEAT

Your Computer posted:

I don't know if it's confirmation bias but there also seems to be certain rooms that will always or never border a secret room. Again, I have literally nothing to back this up other than way too much time playing BoI :v:

One room for instance has two fires next to the top wall, one on each side of where you'd place the bomb. I can't remember a single time when this hasn't been an entrance to the secret room. Either way, after playing for a while you definitely get a "feel" for where the room should be, even if you don't have a visible map.

Yeah, I can "verify" this based on my own entirely untested and statistically insignificant playthroughs. There are certain types of rooms where I instantly bomb the wall and more often than not, the secret is right there.

I also feel like the secrets are hardest to come across in the Basement, because normal secrets are commonly found adjacent to two rooms instead of 3 or 4. I've wasted so many bombs because of that.

Spergatory
Oct 28, 2012

poo poo like that is why I can't sing the praises of Antibirth's balance and design philosophy enough. Edmund's idea of hard is health sponge enemies and swarms and swarms of them. Antibirth enemies all have reasonable amounts of health save for the ones in the Mines, almost all of which will self-destruct if you let them. They actually lowered the health of some enemies from the base game. Lil Haunts that spawn in the Downpour only take two or three shots to kill at base damage, as opposed to taking seven or eight in the Cellar. Enemies are hard in ways that are unique and interesting as opposed to just "X, but with more health and it explodes/releases shots upon death."

The simplest way I can think of to illustrate the difference in design philosophies is to point at how both games handle champion enemies. In the base games, champions are just regular enemy sprites with a color filter over them. In Antibirth, all champions have unique sprites with custom coloring and shading. They even added special touches in some cases, like Black Champion Death having glowing orange eye sockets, making it look especially demonic.

To put it bluntly:
Edmund/Nicalis: :effort:
Antibirth: :effortless:

PostNouveau
Sep 3, 2011

VY till I die
Grimey Drawer
I mean just go look at them. Antibirth is like a total conversion, and AB+ is a new boss and new character.

Ramagamma
Feb 2, 2008

by FactsAreUseless
What's the best way to play isaac just to have fun for you peeps? From the sound of things its playing vanilla rebirth with a platinum god save file but id like to hear a few opinions.

Pigbuster
Sep 12, 2010

Fun Shoe
How to beat greedier with Keeper/The Lost:

- Play runs as anyone else until you get a broken, infinite $ run going (d20 or blank card, probably)
- Buy items until you're powerful af and the remote shows up.
- Use remote until you're Keeper/The Lost.
- Kill greed in one shot because you're powerful af.

Pigbuster
Sep 12, 2010

Fun Shoe

Ramagamma posted:

What's the best way to play isaac just to have fun for you peeps? From the sound of things its playing vanilla rebirth with a platinum god save file but id like to hear a few opinions.

All expansions, unlock stuff legitimately. Unlocking stuff is kinda what keeps me playing, so I'd never download a save. Not bothering with Keeper or The Lost until delirium is fixed. I'll often reset if the first treasure is crappy, unless it's my first run of the day and I'm not worried about having a tedious run.

Antibirth with Jacob is also quite fun and challenging in a good way. I found myself playing that even without the hopes of unlocking stuff.

Spergatory
Oct 28, 2012

Ramagamma posted:

What's the best way to play isaac just to have fun for you peeps? From the sound of things its playing vanilla rebirth with a platinum god save file but id like to hear a few opinions.

I still think regular Afterbirth is worth it overall because of the sheer number of synergies it adds, and the ways certain characters are tweaked. Afterbirth Lost is hella fun. So I'd say Afterbirth with a 1001% save.

EDIT: That, or Rebirth with Antibirth.

Spergatory fucked around with this message at 15:59 on Jan 24, 2017

Grapplejack
Nov 27, 2007

Does plan C not kill you if you have some form of immunity (like the chariot card, or gnawed leaf)?

Also I think the drop tables might be a little hosed up, since i'm seeing the same items a lot in my recent runs.

IUG
Jul 14, 2007


Psychedelicatessen posted:

There's a new angel room with an item and two angel statues, so you can grab the complete key in one angel deal and then go back to devil deals for power.

I got this yesterday, but got no key pieces from either. I already had half a key piece from an earlier level, and eventually got the other half earlier. I had Epic Fetus, so I might have killed both at the same time, and that might have stopped the key pieces from dropping.

Irony Be My Shield
Jul 29, 2012

You definitely want to do them one at a time. I thought fighting them at the same time gave you one key piece, but maybe not if the easier angel is the one you kill second and you already have his piece?

LifeLynx
Feb 27, 2001

Dang so this is like looking over his shoulder in real-time
Grimey Drawer
I won five dailies in a row and The Marathon didn't unlock. :( Items I pick up also aren't showing up in my "Stuff I Found" item collection, so it seems like I'm unable to make progress on my save file. Which sucks because all I need is five items, The Marathon, and Dedication. I guess in spirit I have 1000000000% or whatever it's called except for Dedication, picking up Duality, and getting the Tonsil trinket to spawn its item, even if I don't have the Steam achievements.

Anyone know of any fix?

Spergatory
Oct 28, 2012

Grapplejack posted:

Does plan C not kill you if you have some form of immunity (like the chariot card, or gnawed leaf)?

Also I think the drop tables might be a little hosed up, since i'm seeing the same items a lot in my recent runs.

That happens to me pretty regularly. I think something in the seed generation makes items drift steadily in and out of prominence.

And I'm pretty sure Plan C bypasses all forms of invincibility. The only way to survive it is with extra lives of some sort. Lazarus's Rags is especially great because it doesn't even take you out of the room, meaning ever bosses with long death animations will fall to it.

Crackbone
May 23, 2003

Vlaada is my co-pilot.

Spergatory posted:

poo poo like that is why I can't sing the praises of Antibirth's balance and design philosophy enough. Edmund's idea of hard is health sponge enemies and swarms and swarms of them. Antibirth enemies all have reasonable amounts of health save for the ones in the Mines, almost all of which will self-destruct if you let them. They actually lowered the health of some enemies from the base game. Lil Haunts that spawn in the Downpour only take two or three shots to kill at base damage, as opposed to taking seven or eight in the Cellar. Enemies are hard in ways that are unique and interesting as opposed to just "X, but with more health and it explodes/releases shots upon death."

The simplest way I can think of to illustrate the difference in design philosophies is to point at how both games handle champion enemies. In the base games, champions are just regular enemy sprites with a color filter over them. In Antibirth, all champions have unique sprites with custom coloring and shading. They even added special touches in some cases, like Black Champion Death having glowing orange eye sockets, making it look especially demonic.

I've been trying the 5-win streak with different characters, and it's soured me on blind runs (where I don't reset until a good starting item). I've had too many runs where I'm 5 floors in and still at base damage with no good synergies, and at that point you're going to just get overwhelmed by a damage check room. AB+ is particularly obnoxious when you hit a crowded room with stone fatties and portals that spawn fat bats and brains.

DACK FAYDEN
Feb 25, 2013

Bear Witness

BJPaskoff posted:

I won five dailies in a row and The Marathon didn't unlock. :( Items I pick up also aren't showing up in my "Stuff I Found" item collection, so it seems like I'm unable to make progress on my save file. Which sucks because all I need is five items, The Marathon, and Dedication. I guess in spirit I have 1000000000% or whatever it's called except for Dedication, picking up Duality, and getting the Tonsil trinket to spawn its item, even if I don't have the Steam achievements.
You're loving kidding, there's a separate goddamn item from that? :shepicide:

It's not even difficult, I'm just pissed that it's one more thing to remember to do.

LifeLynx
Feb 27, 2001

Dang so this is like looking over his shoulder in real-time
Grimey Drawer

DACK FAYDEN posted:

You're loving kidding, there's a separate goddamn item from that? :shepicide:

It's not even difficult, I'm just pissed that it's one more thing to remember to do.

Yeah you have to find the trinket and then get hit ~16 times to spawn the item. Eden can also start with it.

I hate this bug I have that no one else seems to have so I can't get any help for it.

Psychedelicatessen
Feb 17, 2012

Mom's box until you get a tonsil stone or wish bone and then throw yourself at a blood machine or blood beggar over and over again.
I'm not a huge fan of the trinkets you have to break, because they're only useful if you have a ton of hearts or a way to get a ton of hearts.

TerminalRaptor
Nov 6, 2012

Mostly Harmless

Pigbuster posted:

How to beat greedier with Keeper/The Lost:

- Play runs as anyone else until you get a broken, infinite $ run going (d20 or blank card, probably)
- Buy items until you're powerful af and the remote shows up.
- Use remote until you're Keeper/The Lost.
- Kill greed in one shot because you're powerful af.


The only problem with this is using the remote takes away an item each time you use it. It's almost like they thought about how you could use an item to your advantage and then went out of their way to nerf it.

Reruns were a fantastic addition to this game, and I can't see Edmund / Nicholas intentionally adding a fun mode like that. I wonder what prompted it.

IUG
Jul 14, 2007


I just wish victory laps would trigger in the Chest run too. It is nice that if you get a chance to go to The Void after beating Mega Satan, the portal will open up after beating MS in the arena (or the chest to end the game).

DACK FAYDEN
Feb 25, 2013

Bear Witness

BJPaskoff posted:

Yeah you have to find the trinket and then get hit ~16 times to spawn the item. Eden can also start with it.
Good to know the number, I'm glad it's under the Cambion/Immaculate Conception school of "it does loving nothing unless you deliberately get hit fifteen times".

Spergatory
Oct 28, 2012
Hey, it's great with blood banks! Plus there's Dull Razor now, so you can just activate that every time it's available and you'll have it done in no time. :v:

Wugga
Oct 30, 2006

I BEAT MEAT

BJPaskoff posted:

I won five dailies in a row and The Marathon didn't unlock.

Marathon is supposed to work now, I got it today myself. Someone on reddit pointed out that because of the time the fix was applied, some folks got it on their fifth and others on theis sixth daily win. Not sure if that's what's up, but it's the only thing I can think of.

.... aside from it just being broken for some people because Nicalis.

Kurtofan
Feb 16, 2011

hon hon hon
explosivo and ludovico= bad

redneck nazgul
Apr 25, 2013

Kurtofan posted:

explosivo = bad

Fixed.

When a growing percentage of your shots deal no immediate damage and require several seconds to actually cause damage, the item is Bad.

Bonus Bad points for every enemy in the game that can hop/burrow/teleport completely negating Explosivo.

Spergatory
Oct 28, 2012
With a high rate of fire, it's undeniably a net positive. All it takes is any given boss not teleporting for a few seconds to completely annihilate them. Plus, it lets you set-and-forget with normal enemies; stick a shot to them and promptly turn your attention elsewhere while they go kaboom.

comingafteryouall
Aug 2, 2011


Got a brimstone and guppy on today's daily, and man is brimstone and guppy ever awesome.

If you go and fight Delirium during a daily does it still count as a victory? I had two opportunities to go but didn't take them.

RatHat
Dec 31, 2007

A tiny behatted rat👒🐀!
Yeah it's really annoying to get Explosivo with high luck. It's good against most bosses though. Sinus Infection(and the Nose Goblin trinket) from Afterbirth+ are the same kind of thing but way better since it still deals contact damage.

Wugga
Oct 30, 2006

I BEAT MEAT

comingafteryouall posted:

Got a brimstone and guppy on today's daily, and man is brimstone and guppy ever awesome.

If you go and fight Delirium during a daily does it still count as a victory? I had two opportunities to go but didn't take them.

Yep, you can finish the Daily by beating Delirium, but there's no extra bonus (barring exploration and/or schwag breaking). So if the daily ends Dark Room / Chest you're better off taking that path. That is, if you care about your score and rank at all. Which you probably shouldn't.

DACK FAYDEN
Feb 25, 2013

Bear Witness
Does Brimstone overwrite the heart drop effect from Serpent's Kiss or something? I was still poisoning enemies on contact and with the Brimstone itself but I didn't see a single black heart from Depths 2 through The Void.

Power of Pecota
Aug 4, 2007

Goodness no, now that wouldn't do at all!

DACK FAYDEN posted:

Does Brimstone overwrite the heart drop effect from Serpent's Kiss or something? I was still poisoning enemies on contact and with the Brimstone itself but I didn't see a single black heart from Depths 2 through The Void.

Pretty sure it does, I didn't get poo poo from Serpent's Kiss on an Azazel run that went through Delirium.

DACK FAYDEN
Feb 25, 2013

Bear Witness

Power of Pecota posted:

Pretty sure it does, I didn't get poo poo from Serpent's Kiss on an Azazel run that went through Delirium.
That's legitimately disappointing. You don't even get something if you're very careful to Brimstone-poison without killing! Edmund :(

IMJack
Apr 16, 2003

Royalty is a continuous ripping and tearing motion.


Fun Shoe

DACK FAYDEN posted:

Does Brimstone overwrite the heart drop effect from Serpent's Kiss or something? I was still poisoning enemies on contact and with the Brimstone itself but I didn't see a single black heart from Depths 2 through The Void.

Poisoned enemies dropping black hearts is really, really random. I don't know what the exact mechanic is, it's probably linked to your luck score. Same with ordinary enemies dropping half-hearts when they die; the games when you actually see it happen, it happens so often you have more hearts than you can work with, otherwise you probably don't get anything at all.

that ivy guy
May 20, 2015

IMJack posted:

Poisoned enemies dropping black hearts is really, really random. I don't know what the exact mechanic is, it's probably linked to your luck score. Same with ordinary enemies dropping half-hearts when they die; the games when you actually see it happen, it happens so often you have more hearts than you can work with, otherwise you probably don't get anything at all.

Enemies dropping half hearts is a Gimpy feature

Irony Be My Shield
Jul 29, 2012

The enemy has to die from the actual poison for Kiss to trigger. You seem to get a stupid number of black hearts if you deliberately go for that.

Kurtofan
Feb 16, 2011

hon hon hon
where art thou sacred heart :negative:

Power of Pecota
Aug 4, 2007

Goodness no, now that wouldn't do at all!

Kurtofan posted:

where art thou sacred heart :negative:

For anything in the Angel Room pool, the best way to get a drop is to get an early Sharp Plug with Isaac, then bomb the first angel you see the first time you get an item in an angel room (any item) so you can reroll whatever item dropped + the key piece. For me Holy Grail (apropos) and Godhead pretty much never dropped and I only got them through getting a shitton of rerolls (for Godhead I had Wafer from an earlier angel room and rolled through the majority of the angel room pool before I got it).

that ivy guy
May 20, 2015

Also, Angel items (and anything really) appear in Void boss rooms; it's like a free chaos

LifeLynx
Feb 27, 2001

Dang so this is like looking over his shoulder in real-time
Grimey Drawer
I got The Marathon today. I must have started my daily runs before the patch downloaded. There was a small update yesterday and I also fudged around with my save file, so maybe that fixed it? I'm going to need to find those missing items to see if the item collection works again.

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How Rude
Aug 13, 2012


FUCK THIS SHIT
Ultra Hard mode is lovely and terrible and just a bad RNG fest.

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