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Alain Post posted:NJPW winning best TV show for a loving months-old clip show was atrocious, and likely due to Talking Smack/SmackDown Live splitting votes. NJPW PPV/big show matches presented with the AXS JR/Barnette commentary is an easy win for best wrestling tv show in my estimation, by virtue of being the best wrestling on tv.
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# ? Mar 4, 2017 00:25 |
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# ? May 13, 2024 00:57 |
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Alain Post posted:NJPW winning best TV show for a loving months-old clip show was atrocious, and likely due to Talking Smack/SmackDown Live splitting votes. Smackdown was a boring B show for half the year. Better the clip show win since people don't have the kind of taste needed to understand the finer pleasures of CMLL.
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# ? Mar 4, 2017 03:08 |
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remusclaw posted:NJPW PPV/big show matches presented with the AXS JR/Barnette commentary is an easy win for best wrestling tv show in my estimation, by virtue of being the best wrestling on tv. Holy poo poo, this.
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# ? Mar 4, 2017 05:07 |
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MassRafTer posted:Smackdown was a boring B show for half the year. Yep. The brand split was only like four months of this year's award year
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# ? Mar 4, 2017 05:17 |
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remusclaw posted:NJPW PPV/big show matches presented with the AXS JR/Barnette commentary is an easy win for best wrestling tv show in my estimation, by virtue of being the best wrestling on tv. The JR commentary is bad. *puffs pipe*
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# ? Mar 4, 2017 22:37 |
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There should be a worst move category this year so that the ten knuckle shuffle can win.
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# ? Mar 5, 2017 08:51 |
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Daunte Vicknabb posted:There should be a worst move category this year so that the ten knuckle shuffle can win. That one could be pretty fun actually. Too bad it hasn't existed until now because I can see an near unbroken string of multi year winners going like this. Worst Move (The Atomic Legdrop Award) Fritz Von Erich: Iron Claw Abdhula the Butcher: Elbow Drop Dusty Rhodes: Bionic Elbow Hulk Hogan: Leg Drop (winner 1984-96) The Rock: Peoples Elbow Scott Taylor: The Worm The Rock: Peoples Elbow John Cena: FU John Cena: 5 Knuckle Shuffle John Cena: STFU Wade Barret: The Wasteland The Rock: Peoples Elbow John Cena: Attitude Adjustment John Cena: 10 Knuckle Shuffle remusclaw fucked around with this message at 21:24 on Mar 5, 2017 |
# ? Mar 5, 2017 16:36 |
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What a bad list like half of those rule
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# ? Mar 5, 2017 16:44 |
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Beef Jerky Robot posted:What a bad list like half of those rule Have you been on the internet/had conversations with the average self proclaimed hardcore wrestling fan anytime in the last 30 years? I love most all of those moves (except maybe Wasteland) , but they would win year in year out. The only time I ever stopped hearing people complain about the peoples elbow online in the late 90's early aughts is when they took some time to complain about the Worm. Hulk Hogan won Most Overrated in 85-86, and again from 94-98. On the other hand look at best wrestling maneuver, almost every year aside from the years the Rainmaker, Diamond Cutter, Styles Clash, and Burning Hammer won is some sort of flippy/flying junior move. Observer voters have a type. Superplex won in 82 between two Superfly splash wins. remusclaw fucked around with this message at 17:18 on Mar 5, 2017 |
# ? Mar 5, 2017 16:46 |
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Any year of Hulk winning Most Overrated (except maybe 1998) is hilarious.
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# ? Mar 5, 2017 17:17 |
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Alain Post posted:Any year of Hulk winning Most Overrated (except maybe 1998) is hilarious. Looking through the defunct awards, Hulk Hogan, during two of the biggest boom periods in the wrestling history, both of which he could easily lay claim to being a major part of, won least favorite Wrestler 9 times. Awkwardly, worst manager, from 1984-1999 went to Paul Jones once in 86 and otherwise is completely shared by Mr Fuji and Sonny Onoo. remusclaw fucked around with this message at 17:26 on Mar 5, 2017 |
# ? Mar 5, 2017 17:19 |
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remusclaw posted:NJPW PPV/big show matches presented with the AXS JR/Barnette commentary is an easy win for best wrestling tv show in my estimation, by virtue of being the best wrestling on tv.
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# ? Mar 5, 2017 17:32 |
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davidbix posted:But, at least taking the results listing literally, that's not the show that won. I honestly don't know how they order shows. During that one year where Lucha Underground had an English and Spanish language broadcast, was it listed as multiple shows or just one? Edit: Also NJPW Japanese commentary tends to be pretty awesome all on its own, so I certainly wouldn't knock the show based on its original commentary, though I am willing to bet most of the votes for it came from people hearing it in English. remusclaw fucked around with this message at 17:42 on Mar 5, 2017 |
# ? Mar 5, 2017 17:37 |
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remusclaw posted:Have you been on the internet/had conversations with the average self proclaimed hardcore wrestling fan anytime in the last 30 years? I love most all of those moves (except maybe Wasteland) , but they would win year in year out. The only time I ever stopped hearing people complain about the peoples elbow online in the late 90's early aughts is when they took some time to complain about the Worm. Oh I get it it's still a list I'd get all riled up about if it was real
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# ? Mar 5, 2017 19:19 |
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remusclaw posted:Looking through the defunct awards, Hulk Hogan, during two of the biggest boom periods in the wrestling history, both of which he could easily lay claim to being a major part of, won least favorite Wrestler 9 times. I mean, "Least Favorite" is subjective so that's fine, but "Most Overrated" would mean WCW was making a huge mistake by pushing him so hard, which, up to maybe the second half of 1998, is a ridiculous idea. How much loving money did he draw for them?
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# ? Mar 5, 2017 19:56 |
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Alain Post posted:I mean, "Least Favorite" is subjective so that's fine, but "Most Overrated" would mean WCW was making a huge mistake by pushing him so hard, which, up to maybe the second half of 1998, is a ridiculous idea. How much loving money did he draw for them? Only enough to make them the biggest company in the history of pro wrestling. I enjoyed Dave riffing on the Most Overrated winners before his defense of **** Roman.
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# ? Mar 5, 2017 20:00 |
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It's more a judgment on who's voting. Hogan winning least favorite is a clear indicator that the awards voters aren't or at least weren't the average wrestling fans. I don't care much for the man today, but when I was in deep Hogan was God to me.
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# ? Mar 5, 2017 20:02 |
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Someone on another board did some great re-runs of the 90s Observer awards and Hogan winning "most overrated" despite being a tremendous heel and making shitloads of money was a constant running joke. e) for fun, here's the 1997 awards http://pastebin.com/aei34ssc
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# ? Mar 5, 2017 20:03 |
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remusclaw posted:It's more a judgment on who's voting. Hogan winning least favorite is a clear indicator that the awards voters aren't or at least weren't the average wrestling fans. I don't care much for the man today, but when I was in deep Hogan was God to me. Same, but unfortunately Big Wood needed that face run in 99 and ruined it all.
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# ? Mar 5, 2017 20:04 |
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actually just for fun i'm gonna post the other WON award reviews since they're super fun reading, especially the "bad" years like 94-95 (for me, anyway) 1990: http://pastebin.com/JXKYPBTR 1991: http://pastebin.com/4E71Bgdm 1992: http://pastebin.com/9MmDHnQB 1993: http://pastebin.com/1FPGcYHV 1994: http://pastebin.com/14Ttdpft 1995: http://pastebin.com/Y5x2yCGg 1996: http://pastebin.com/q5Hrnkut 1997: http://pastebin.com/aei34ssc 1998: http://pastebin.com/mG62whHn
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# ? Mar 5, 2017 20:13 |
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Alain Post posted:actually just for fun i'm gonna post the other WON award reviews since they're super fun reading, especially the "bad" years like 94-95 (for me, anyway) Yeah I was just looking at the one from before and they are pretty great so far.
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# ? Mar 5, 2017 20:24 |
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I actually have to revise that goofy joke list anyhow. Abdullah's elbow looks like death.
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# ? Mar 5, 2017 21:21 |
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Alberto's Tree of Woe stomp would've won by a landslide last year
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# ? Mar 5, 2017 21:43 |
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Hogan definitely was overpushed though, there's a reason he had to disappear all the time when he got overexposed. He definitely should have been a focal point of the promotion, but he didn't have to make almost every show him jacking off in the ring. That said, he was still better than Kevin Nash.
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# ? Mar 5, 2017 22:06 |
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remusclaw posted:I honestly don't know how they order shows. During that one year where Lucha Underground had an English and Spanish language broadcast, was it listed as multiple shows or just one? "NJPW World Pro Wrestling" is the heavily edited half hour show that airs in late nights over the air in Japan. The show we get on AXS is a dubbed version of "NJPW World Pro Wrestling Returns," where they add the retrospective interviews months later, the main event is always uncut, and there's less editing overall. They're too different shows.
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# ? Mar 5, 2017 22:54 |
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So is it just a matter of Dave giving the show the wrong name in the awards issue? I can't imagine the award is for anything other than the American aired show on AXS.
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# ? Mar 5, 2017 23:04 |
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I immediately assumed it was a reference to the AXS show.
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# ? Mar 5, 2017 23:06 |
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Winner of worst finisher forever: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqWudY_iViM
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# ? Mar 5, 2017 23:19 |
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Sotar posted:Winner of worst finisher forever: It would never win the award because it wouldn't be seen enough. Worst whatever awards never go to the right recipient because the worst almost never gets sufficient viewership to put them in the running.
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# ? Mar 5, 2017 23:23 |
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Sotar posted:Winner of worst finisher forever: after all this time of seeing this clip over and over, it was just now that I finally heard Dolph scream, "I don't even know what that was, ahaha!"
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# ? Mar 5, 2017 23:24 |
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Marquis de Pyro posted:Hogan definitely was overpushed though, there's a reason he had to disappear all the time when he got overexposed. He definitely should have been a focal point of the promotion, but he didn't have to make almost every show him jacking off in the ring. That said, he was still better than Kevin Nash. His contract only covered specific dates so he had to disappear a few times per year. He was just smart enough to do it during strong competition.
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# ? Mar 6, 2017 02:34 |
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Hogan winning in 94/95 makes alot of sense because WCW was in the dumps and they were losing even more money when Hogan was on a show because his contract got a large amount of PPV gross revenue when he was on the show.
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# ? Mar 6, 2017 06:23 |
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Alvarez with a VINTAGE rant on the booking on the B&V show
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# ? Mar 6, 2017 06:42 |
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dsriggs posted:Alvarez with a VINTAGE rant on the booking on the B&V show
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# ? Mar 6, 2017 09:25 |
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dsriggs posted:Alvarez with a VINTAGE rant on the booking on the B&V show I seriously thought it was a Bryan solo show until Vinny finally spoke about 8 minutes in
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# ? Mar 6, 2017 13:13 |
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OctoberCountry posted:I seriously thought it was a Bryan solo show until Vinny finally spoke about 8 minutes in Even better, I think the first thing he says is,"And you actually liked the show more than me!"
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# ? Mar 6, 2017 13:49 |
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GoutPatrol posted:Hogan winning in 94/95 makes alot of sense because WCW was in the dumps and they were losing even more money when Hogan was on a show because his contract got a large amount of PPV gross revenue when he was on the show. Hogan shows didn't lose money and he was a huge reason the company squeaked out a profit in 1995. Until Souled Out 98, PPVs with Hogan on them did considerably more business than non-Hogan PPVs, enough to offset the revenue paid to him.
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# ? Mar 6, 2017 14:03 |
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MassRafTer posted:Hogan shows didn't lose money and he was a huge reason the company squeaked out a profit in 1995. Until Souled Out 98, PPVs with Hogan on them did considerably more business than non-Hogan PPVs, enough to offset the revenue paid to him. From the 1995 award issue: quote:After seven years in business and an estimated $30 million in losses, World Championship Wrestling turned its first profit in 1995. quote:On the other hand, independent sources list both WWF and WCW shows in December of basically hitting new all-time lows. WCW Starrcade' 95 did an estimated 0.36 buy rate, the second lowest buy rate in company history (approximately 83,000 buys and $1.04 million company gross). Even WCW sources don't dispute that figure which says how bad it must have been, with the company estimated the figure at between 0.35 and 0.40, but the company taking solace somewhat in that number because it beat the WWF. In comparison, the previous year's Starrcade with the Hogan vs. Butcher main event did approximately an 0.7 buy rate, which at the time (which shows just how much this industry changes in one year) was also considered disappointing. Sure sounds like he was on fire there. Jan 23, 95 Observer quote:With the possible exception of the summer steroid trial of Vince McMahon, the biggest story of 1994 was the Hulk Hogan experiment. WCW put umpteen times more guaranteed money on the table for any wrestler in history at the feet of Hulk Hogan in order to attempt to turn around the fortunes of what was a company on life support systems. Does this sound like really changed business around?
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# ? Mar 6, 2017 15:59 |
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GoutPatrol posted:From the 1995 award issue: Meltzer was arguing in 1993 that PPV was a dead medium, so if you believe what he says, then yes, Hulk Hogan changed business by reviving PPV for all of wrestling.
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# ? Mar 6, 2017 16:04 |
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# ? May 13, 2024 00:57 |
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rare Magic card l00k posted:Meltzer was arguing in 1993 that PPV was a dead medium, so if you believe what he says, then yes, Hulk Hogan changed business by reviving PPV for all of wrestling. Gonna need a quote for that one. Edit: Jan 24 94 Observer quote:Despite all the emphasis on house shows these moves indicate, it is still PPV revenue that is going to be the main revenue source in this country of presenting live events. In 1993, WCW drew about $7.56 million on seven PPV events as opposed to around $3 million on more than 300 house show dates. While estimated profit is haphazard, the PPV shows probably did $2.5 million in profit while the house shows certainly lost a lot more than $2.5 million. WWF was a little more balanced, drawing about $16.1 million on five PPV dates and another $19 million on about 400 or so house show dates. Of course the cost of gambling in the PPV arena are higher. UWFI, which ran a 1:50 PPV show (as opposed to more than two hours for WWF and WCW) on tape rather than live, had built in costs in excess of $850,000. Even if the figure is slightly lower for WCW, and based on higher production costs, at least as much advertising, going live and a longer show, if anything it should be a higher break-even. That means if buy rates fall to consistent 0.3 to 0.4 level, the profit margin in that medium would be gone. If what they tell us about technology changes is accurate, in not too many years, many cable systems will be carrying 500 stations. Despite the belief of many that pro wrestling is already overexposed on television, with 500 stations in a market, that is going to mean a lot more pro wrestling, in terms of variety, on television in years to come, not less, despite inevitable ratings declines that will occur. The apparent success of the different and unknown UWFI on PPV and ethnic regional success AAA has already had in the U.S. has opened the eyes of several international promotions on running in the United States on PPV where an 0.5 buy rate is worked right can be profitable. The idea of an international promotion trying to put together a U.S. tour, with the exception of AAA or EMLL on a regional basis, would be a waste of effort when PPV is the only way it can bring a return on the investment. The potential drawing power of AAA on PPV is a question mark to be sure, particularly on a national basis, however dismissing it outright would be ignoring a very important fact. Traditionally, in the United States, it has been the heavyweights in boxing that were the biggest draw. Occasionally, with the most recent example being when Ray Leonard was in his prime, a middleweight fighter captures the nation's fancy and becomes boxing's top draw. Right now boxing is the No. 1 sport on PPV in the United States as far as biggest grosses, however wrestling is No. 2, and still a more consistent product. The biggest draw on PPV in the United States today among boxers, wrestlers, or even Howard Stern fans, is Julio Caesar Chavez, a lighter weight boxer whose appeal is largely ethnic. His success says that dismissing AAA's chances on PPV because "Mexicans don't have the money to buy PPV" or because it is too ethnic in appeal is ignoring the obvious. Chavez vs. Pernell Whitaker outdrew Holyfield-Bowe by a wide margin. Sure sounds like he says PPV is dead GoutPatrol fucked around with this message at 16:11 on Mar 6, 2017 |
# ? Mar 6, 2017 16:06 |