EU Politics: I miss Renaults(don't make fun of me)

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > EU Politics: I miss Renaults(don't make fun of me)

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

Cat Mattress posted:

http://www.equineteurope.org/IMG/pdf/ebs_437_en.pdf

Spoiler alert: CZ (Czechia) is generally the most intolerant (racist, sexist, etc.) country; SE (Sweden) is generally the most tolerant; SI and SK (Slovenia and Slovakia) are where they like whitey the least.

Holy poo poo, that's really bad. Not surprised about Roma or black people (there aren't any) but they even hate Buddhists for some reason.

Cat Mattress posted:

They call it "Czech Republic" in the document if that's what you're wondering about -- which, after all, is from 2015, while the country changed its official short name in 2016. "Czechia" is shorter to type, though.

You can see it in google maps even, and in all kinds of pop up ads that are geo-coded in some way.

# ? Mar 13, 2017 00:12

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# ? May 15, 2024 05:01

MeLKoR: Dec 23, 2004; by FactsAreUseless

Squalid posted:

Gypsy culture is specifically adapted to resist assimilation into majority populations so don't expect them to abandon it willingly. So long as assholes exist who think they can solve these problems by driving their society to extinction the social and economic issues of the Roma will never be solved.

People like unpacked robinhood are why gypsy educational attainment are so low. Ask them to choose between their culture and family or money and they'll pick the culture every time.

Jews have managed to survive cultural assimilation without marrying off their daughters at 13 and actively sabotaging their children's chances at a conventional education.

e: seriously, if gypsy/roma culture is going to survive in the third millennium it's not going to be by forcing their children into a life of traveling market salesmen and/or petty crime in the moons of Saturn or whatever the gently caress

MeLKoR fucked around with this message at 00:49 on Mar 13, 2017

# ? Mar 13, 2017 00:44

Squalid: Nov 4, 2008

endlessmonotony posted:

A lot of their ability to resist assimilation relies on their ability to maintain isolation and control the available information in order to keep their youth from straying from the lifestyle.

This is the one social problem where an app to fix it is actually plausible.

Not when mainstream society is willing to do all the heavy lifting to keep them isolated.

http://radoc.net/radoc.php?doc=art_g_education&lang=fr&articles=true

quote:

7. Institutional Resistance to Romanies and Romani Culture
Fear of Romanies in the classroom in America is mild compared to reactions in Europe; a British parent told a newspaper reporter that �[i]t came as a tremendous shock when we heard that Gypsy children were to be taught at the school. They smell, I�m afraid, and have the educational standard of retarded children� (Anon., 1965:5), while in Italy, car tires were heaped in the middle of the road and set on fire to prevent Romani children from reaching the school; in Spain, local residents pelted Romani children who were attempting to attend school in Zaragosa with bricks (Anon., 1984:B7). In Hungary, at least in the mid-1980s, about 15% of Romani children are put into schools for the mentally-deficient (Satory, 1986:5). Although the Western U.S. schools for the most part received positive support initially from the surrounding non-Romani community, their establishment was not entirely free from elements of antigypsyism. In Seattle, for example, when non-Romani parents learned that there would be Gypsies in their schools, they became alarmed, and demanded meetings with the PTA. �In addition to the fear engendered by the prejudiced view of the Rom, there was also a feeling of resentment at having school territory impinged upon� (Kaldi, 1983:2 1). Both Ephraim Miller and James Marks were angered by the lack of enthusiasm and concern they encountered from the establishment once the initial fascination with the Gypsy schools had passed. While other minorities continued to received attention and financial support, the administration and the funding bodies simply lost interest (Tyner-Stastny, 1977:32-34), and James Marks, p.c.).

The whole mentality that assumes they must be assimilated is fundamentally wrong, and history tells us it will fail every time unless you go full NAZI. In a multicultural society the objective is not to unmake a people, but to build institutions that actually serve people's needs.

# ? Mar 13, 2017 00:53

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

endlessmonotony posted:

A lot of their ability to resist assimilation relies on their ability to maintain isolation and control the available information in order to keep their youth from straying from the lifestyle.

This is the one social problem where an app to fix it is actually plausible.

Is it really a social problem that there is a small group of people that isn't interested in conforming (surprisingly, after decades of attempts to destroy their cultures/physically annihilate them in the 40s)?

# ? Mar 13, 2017 00:59

MeLKoR: Dec 23, 2004; by FactsAreUseless

jBrereton posted:

Is it really a social problem that there is a small group of people that isn't interested in conforming (surprisingly, after decades of attempts to destroy their cultures/physically annihilate them in the 40s)?

It's only a social problem if you believe girls shouldn't be taken off school and married to older men when they reach puberty and boys as soon as they can get away with it. I believe their communities could survive their children being given the chance to become doctors or engineers or whatever they wanted to be instead of having their future decided for them.

# ? Mar 13, 2017 01:09

Squalid: Nov 4, 2008

MeLKoR posted:

Jews have managed to survive cultural assimilation without marrying off their daughters at 13 and actively sabotaging their children's chances at a conventional education.

e: seriously, if gypsy/roma culture is going to survive in the third millennium it's not going to be by forcing their children into a life of traveling market salesmen and/or petty crime in the moons of Saturn or whatever the gently caress

"if it is going to survive?" The Rom aren't going anywhere bro, and I can't imagine why anyone would think otherwise.

Their culture is from from static of course, it has rapidly adapted to the many social-political and economic contexts of the Western world. What is the greatest cultural shift among the Romani in the last 100 years? A mass conversion to Pentecostalism. Probably not the kind of cultural evolution the racists have in mind.

"Newsweek posted:

The movement has spread from �Brittany throughout France, into Spain, Portugal, Belgium, Holland, South America, Scandinavia, Britain and Eastern Europe. Around one third of all French Gypsies are now thought to be Pentecostal Christians � with about the same proportion in Spain and Portugal. Further east, in the former communist bloc, many Roma are Pentecostals (although not all belong to Life and Light, as there are a plethora of Romani evangelical churches in Eastern Europe). In Britain, nearly every Gypsy family has at least one Life and Light convert (often leading, in tight-knit families, to other conversions) and the movement is evangelising in the Irish Traveller community. In Britain, many newly-arrived Roma are also enthusiastic Pentecostals.
. . .
Le Cossec always tailored his Gospel to his congregation, encouraging them to think of themselves as a stateless �people, who now had a celestial homeland where they would no longer be �persecuted and where they could throw off the perceived stigma of their ethnicity. He preached that: �up there, there are no �Forbidden to Travellers� or �No Stopping� signs�. And he was aided by the rhythms of Gypsy jazz � Django �Reinhardt was a relative of the pastor Mat�o Maximoff, and his music became much favoured within the church (although he never became a convert himself).
. . .
He told me more then about the practices of the church, in which, like other Pentecostal churches, believers perform baptisms by full immersion, speak in tongues and believe in miracles. The church discourages alcohol and drugs. More controversially, long-held Gypsy customs, such as fortune-telling and arranged and teenage marriage, are also challenged.

Jones�s wife, Nora, came from a long line of fortune tellers but gave up when she became a Christian. �My wife could take herself all over the world and tell fortunes, but she couldn�t read,� Jones said. �It was only when she was converted that she wanted to read the Gospel. Christianity is hitting the road and making a social difference. Our young people want to study and they want to learn the language of their own �people so they can speak to them. Proper Romanies just want to do business, so they have had no need for education. After they become Christians they want to learn.�

# ? Mar 13, 2017 02:00

MeLKoR: Dec 23, 2004; by FactsAreUseless

Squalid posted:

"if it is going to survive?" The Rom aren't going anywhere bro, and I can't imagine why anyone would think otherwise.

Their culture is from from static of course, it has rapidly adapted to the many social-political and economic contexts of the Western world. What is the greatest cultural shift among the Romani in the last 100 years? A mass conversion to Pentecostalism. Probably not the kind of cultural evolution the racists have in mind.

First of all there's a tendency to refer to gypsies as a single group but there are distinct differences between the history and challenges faced by Eastern/Western gypsies and between those and the ones in Britain I think. And I'm not the one suggesting that their culture is in danger of being annihilated, I'm following up on the person that seemed to consider these particular cultural practices as essential to the survival of their cultural identity. I strongly disagree with that and believe that a middle term can be reached.

It's the same reasoning why we wouldn't/shouldn't tolerate FGM regardless of any claims of it being an essential feature of the culture. Cultures change and adapt, it's when they don't that they die.

# ? Mar 13, 2017 02:10

fishmech: Jul 16, 2006; by VideoGames; Salad Prong

There's apparently like a million Romani people in the US and they simply don't stand out at all. Many people aren't even aware they're here as a distinct ethnic group. Probably helps that there aren't any specific policies against them or really much public acknowledgment, the ones who do the fully nomadic thing here mostly do it as a temporary thing when they're young, often attaching themselves to itinerant employers like carnivals and fairs.

# ? Mar 13, 2017 02:32

Torrannor: Apr 27, 2013; ---FAGNER---
TEAM-MATE

Even apart from members of the government campaigning abroad being illegal under Turkish law, why should we allow the AKP to campaign for votes while they have the leaders of one of the two opposition parties locked up under bullshit terrorism charges? They obviosly can't campaign in Europe while in prison, so Erdogan and his stooges shouldn't be allowed to either.

# ? Mar 13, 2017 09:04

unpacked robinhood: Feb 18, 2013; by Fluffdaddy

Squalid posted:

People like unpacked robinhood are why gypsy educational attainment are so low.

Yeah the one time I've seen gypsies in college was when they set up camp on campus, and their kids were running around stealing poo poo from the classrooms and emptying fire extinguishers.
Fortunately now they don't let them park here anymore and they hosed off back to the dedicated area the city provides for them.

# ? Mar 13, 2017 09:08

GaussianCopula: Jun 5, 2011; Jews fleeing the Holocaust are not in any way comparable to North Africans, who don't flee genocide but want to enjoy the social welfare systems of Northern Europe.

Torrannor posted:

Even apart from members of the government campaigning abroad being illegal under Turkish law, why should we allow the AKP to campaign for votes while they have the leaders of one of the two opposition parties locked up under bullshit terrorism charges? They obviosly can't campaign in Europe while in prison, so Erdogan and his stooges shouldn't be allowed to either.

Yesterday an Erdogan propagandist (a "journalist" that's very cozy with the government) explained that while yes, there is a law that forbids campaigning abroad, as long as no one complains about it, the law doesn't matter.

Erdogan's argument why he and his cronies should be allowed to speak is that it falls under the right of freedom of speech to have them go around and spread their lies and propaganda.

Raspberry Jam It In Me posted:

watch GC slowly morph from a soulless run-of-the-mill objectivist to a full blown 19th century monarchist

gott, kaiser, vaterland

uhm, the new Turkish constitution is much closer to a monarchy than anything before so I'm not sure were you got that. Additionally the Kaiser was very friendly with the Turks, who were after all his brothers-in-arms.

# ? Mar 13, 2017 10:42

Lord of the Llamas: Jul 9, 2002; EULER'VE TO SEE IT VENN SOMEONE CALLS IT THE WRONG THING AND PROVOKES MY WRATH

Interesting slide in the latest BVA poll release showing how hard Le Pen's ceiling in the first round is. Also looks like Fillon is pretty screwed.

Only registered members can see post attachments!

# ? Mar 13, 2017 10:48

suck my woke dick: Oct 10, 2012; I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!

Put this cum-loving slave on ignore immediately!

Lord of the Llamas posted:

Interesting slide in the latest BVA poll release showing how hard Le Pen's ceiling in the first round is. Also looks like Fillon is pretty screwed.

So one term of empty suit with smartphone Macron it is.

# ? Mar 13, 2017 11:28

eshock: Sep 2, 2004

Fiction posted:

What's hamon's EU stance?

If nobody else wants to sign up as the forums #1 Hamon fanboy, I'll do it I guess.

Hamon more or less subscribes to the Diem25 platform of "constructive disobedience" (https://blogs.mediapart.fr/les-invites-de-mediapart/blog/060916/europe-s-left-after-brexit-yanis-varoufakis) w.r.t. Europe.

Basically, he wants to remain in the EU and use France's weight to extract left-friendly concessions from Brussels. The big ones he mentions in his platform are a moratorium on the stability and growth pact, cancel debts between member nations of the EU, an EU-wide minimum wage, and no to TAFTA/CETA.

The idea is that he'll be nominally pro-EU enough to attract votes from the bourgeoisie, but keep enough distance that he can reliably harness (Brussels' fear of) the growing anti-EU sentiment here to extract some major concessions.

# ? Mar 13, 2017 11:33

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

M�luche's high potential is lower than Macron's and Fillon's low potentials.

# ? Mar 13, 2017 11:39

Toplowtech: Aug 31, 2004

blowfish posted:

So one term of empty suit with smartphone Macron it is.

I want to point out that loving first round nonsense wouldn't be such problem with a transferable vote system.

# ? Mar 13, 2017 11:47

GaussianCopula: Jun 5, 2011; Jews fleeing the Holocaust are not in any way comparable to North Africans, who don't flee genocide but want to enjoy the social welfare systems of Northern Europe.

eshock posted:

If nobody else wants to sign up as the forums #1 Hamon fanboy, I'll do it I guess.

Hamon more or less subscribes to the Diem25 platform of "constructive disobedience" (https://blogs.mediapart.fr/les-invites-de-mediapart/blog/060916/europe-s-left-after-brexit-yanis-varoufakis) w.r.t. Europe.

Basically, he wants to remain in the EU and use France's weight to extract left-friendly concessions from Brussels. The big ones he mentions in his platform are a moratorium on the stability and growth pact, cancel debts between member nations of the EU, an EU-wide minimum wage, and no to TAFTA/CETA.

Why does the Left believe that going balls deep into debt is going to magically cure all problems?

Edit: NVM, I figured it out - they just don't plan on ever repaying the debt.

# ? Mar 13, 2017 11:50

YF-23: Feb 17, 2011; My god, it's full of cat!

GC, have you considered a career as a political cartoonist? You're a natural.

# ? Mar 13, 2017 11:57

Bulbo: Nov 4, 2012

YF-23 posted:

GC, have you considered a career as a political cartoonist? You're a natural.

# ? Mar 13, 2017 12:03

MiddleOne: Feb 17, 2011

YF-23 posted:

GC, have you considered a career as a political cartoon? You're a natural.

Ftfy

# ? Mar 13, 2017 12:08

I Love Annie May: Oct 10, 2012

YF-23 posted:

GC, have you considered a career as a political cartoonist? You're a natural.

A drawing with a passing semblance to Martin Schulz, only that he's so deformed that he looks more like a worm than the politcian he's supposed to caricature, eating foreign dishes and sipping champagne, looks down on the viewer and says:"I might be a highschool dropout, but since I'm a leftist I deserve to be at the top of this country and tell the people how to live."

Down below, a heavily crosshatched section with cubital white letters written in the middle: BERGSTAATSVERSCHULDUNG

# ? Mar 13, 2017 12:14

Flowers For Algeria: Dec 3, 2005; I humbly offer my services as forum inquisitor. There is absolutely no way I would abuse this power in any way.

Cat Mattress posted:

M�luche's high potential is lower than Macron's and Fillon's low potentials.

Stop it! Stop it! I'm not hearing you! LA LA LA LA LA LA

# ? Mar 13, 2017 12:46

Sneaks McDevious: Jul 29, 2010; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

Flowers For Algeria posted:

Stop it! Stop it! I'm not hearing you! LA LA LA LA LA LA

At least the French left has agreed in a common slogan

# ? Mar 13, 2017 17:38

throw to first DAMN IT: Apr 10, 2007; This whole thread has been raging at the people who don't want Saracen invasion to their homes

Perhaps you too should be more accepting of their cultures

https://vimeo.com/207997372

Have this example of efficient finnish decision making. It has subs for your pleasure.

# ? Mar 13, 2017 17:47

YF-23: Feb 17, 2011; My god, it's full of cat!

Sturgeon announced a second Indyref, saying it should be held between Autumn 2018 and Spring 2019

I'm looking forward to the Tories becoming the party that pulled out of the EU and lost Scotland. :allears:

throw to first drat IT posted:

https://vimeo.com/207997372

Have this example of efficient finnish decision making. It has subs for your pleasure.

Is this real? :eyepop:

# ? Mar 13, 2017 18:04

Andrast: Apr 21, 2010

YF-23 posted:

Is this real?

Yes.

# ? Mar 13, 2017 18:06

orange sky: May 7, 2007

throw to first drat IT posted:

https://vimeo.com/207997372

Have this example of efficient finnish decision making. It has subs for your pleasure.

Ahahahaha oh my loving god

This is how you can tell a country has it nice - nothing better to do, eh?

# ? Mar 13, 2017 18:10

Sereri: Sep 30, 2008; awwwrigami

throw to first drat IT posted:

https://vimeo.com/207997372

Have this example of efficient finnish decision making. It has subs for your pleasure.

So is this like a Finnish Filibuster?

Also one of the people looks awfully like the Fingerpori guy.

# ? Mar 13, 2017 18:21

Lightning Lord: Feb 21, 2013; $200 a day, plus expenses

throw to first drat IT posted:

https://vimeo.com/207997372

Have this example of efficient finnish decision making. It has subs for your pleasure.

Really enjoying the pilot for Finnish Parks and Rec.

# ? Mar 13, 2017 18:25

double nine: Aug 8, 2013

throw to first drat IT posted:

https://vimeo.com/207997372

Have this example of efficient finnish decision making. It has subs for your pleasure.

way to leave us hanging at the end there.

# ? Mar 13, 2017 18:48

A Buttery Pastry: Sep 4, 2011; Delicious and Informative!

mobby_6kl posted:

Holy poo poo, that's really bad. Not surprised about Roma or black people (there aren't any) but they even hate Buddhists for some reason.

Everyone from Vietnam is:

1. A crook.
2. A Buddhist

Presumably.

# ? Mar 13, 2017 18:58

x420ReDdIT_Br0nYx: Jan 21, 2013

eshock posted:

The idea is that he'll be nominally pro-EU enough to attract votes from the bourgeoisie, but keep enough distance that he can reliably harness (Brussels' fear of) the growing anti-EU sentiment here to extract some major concessions.

Five more years of austerity and liberal policies then, cool.

And Macron polling at 26% is still a loving outrage. I really hope he gets destroyed so we can enjoy watching journalists cry live on TV because their official candidate failed.

e: vvv Absolutely not. I'm hoping Macron doesn't even get to the second round.

x420ReDdIT_Br0nYx fucked around with this message at 19:25 on Mar 13, 2017

# ? Mar 13, 2017 19:04

Andrast: Apr 21, 2010

x420ReDdIT_Br0nYx posted:

Five more years of austerity and liberal policies then, cool.

And Macron polling at 26% is still a loving outrage. I really hope he gets destroyed so we can enjoy watching journalists cry live on TV because their official candidate failed.

So you want fillon or Le pen to win then?

# ? Mar 13, 2017 19:10

Dr Kool-AIDS: Mar 26, 2004

Erdogan says he's taking the Netherlands to the European Court of Human Rights, and somehow managed not to die from acute irony poisoning.

https://twitter.com/Conflicts/status/841353218177302528

Dr Kool-AIDS fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Mar 13, 2017

# ? Mar 13, 2017 19:18

Toplowtech: Aug 31, 2004

Sinteres posted:

Erdogan says he's taking the Netherlands to the European Court of Human Rights, and somehow managed not to die from acute irony poisoning.

https://twitter.com/Conflicts/status/841353218177302528

Now, how fast can we move it from Strasbourg to Maastricht ?

Andrast posted:

So you want fillon or Le pen to win then?

We already had that bullshit during the us election, can't you see your "Macron is the only one who can win" belief is nice and all, but a blind belief in the same article of faith as "IT'S HER TURN NOW" and it's going to change nothing. It's worse because we had worse media predictions in the past. Chirac was dead in 1995, Balladur was going to crush him during the first turn. Voting for Chirac was voting for the PS, don't you know?!

# ? Mar 13, 2017 19:41

Andrast: Apr 21, 2010

Toplowtech posted:

We already had that bullshit during the us election, can't you see your "Macron is the only one who can win" belief is nice and all, but a blind belief in the same article of faith as "IT'S HER TURN NOW" and it's going to change nothing. It's worse because we had worse media predictions in the past. Chirac was dead in 1995, Balladur was going to crush him during the first turn. Voting for Chirac was voting for the PS, don't you know?!

Well obviously during the first phase you can vote for the non-poo poo candidate since one is available. The second phase is most likely going to have Le Pen and Macron though.

# ? Mar 13, 2017 19:45

Antifa Poltergeist: Jun 3, 2004; "We're not laughing with you, we're laughing at you"

Boy it sure is cool how we hosed up solving the refugee crisis,instead opting to pay billions of euros to a corrupt despot to sweep it under the rug and hes now shaking us down for more Money.its cool cool cool.mega cool even.

# ? Mar 13, 2017 19:46

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

I'm not gonna assume the polls are entirely reliable.

# ? Mar 13, 2017 19:47

Toplowtech: Aug 31, 2004

Andrast posted:

Well obviously during the first phase you can vote for the non-poo poo candidate since one is available. The second phase is most likely going to have Le Pen and Macron though.

Yeah i know, but the whole "come on be a smarty, join the corporate party" Com is kinda getting old, it's all.

# ? Mar 13, 2017 19:48

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# ? May 15, 2024 05:01

Captain Scandinaiva: Mar 29, 2010

throw to first drat IT posted:

https://vimeo.com/207997372

Have this example of efficient finnish decision making. It has subs for your pleasure.

Local politics and expensive projects don't mix very well.

ChainsawCharlie posted:

Boy it sure is cool how we hosed up solving the refugee crisis,instead opting to pay billions of euros to a corrupt despot to sweep it under the rug and hes now shaking us down for more Money.its cool cool cool.mega cool even.

It came back to bite us in the rear end?? But problem went away. :saddowns:

I wonder what the reaction will be when climate change creates some real refugee streams?

# ? Mar 13, 2017 19:59

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > EU Politics: I miss Renaults(don't make fun of me)

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