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daslog posted:Can you quote the post where I stated that? I'm not finding it. Just the one line will due. Stop being such a loving little poo poo: daslog posted:As I see it, here is Liberty's business model daslog posted:Liberty can take less money and keep the races where they are and promote the sport. That's great for the fans and the tracks, but Liberty's revenue goes down, not up. You keep talking about lowering sanctioning fees as if all that's going to do is cut into Liberty's revenue. The point is that sanctioning fees SHOULDN'T be a primary source of revenue, and that lowering them allows the sport to grow and actually generate MORE money. This is a problem that needs to be solved, and presumably will be solved, and constantly idolizing Bernie's broken way of doing things is idiotic. Running a business by bankrupting the people your business depends on is not a good way to make money long-term. I don't know a better way of hammering this comically simple message into your brain. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Mar 16, 2017 13:45
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Settle down wicka
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Mar 16, 2017 13:48
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GOOD TIMES ON METH posted:Settle down wicka It's enraging when people say dumb poo poo, in print, and then refuse to admit they said the dumb poo poo we can all plainly see and read.
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Mar 16, 2017 13:50
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wicka posted:It's enraging when people say dumb poo poo, in print, and then refuse to admit they said the dumb poo poo we can all plainly see and read. Good election strategy though. 
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Mar 16, 2017 13:59
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Theophany posted:Good election strategy though. Every day is a gift.
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Mar 16, 2017 14:02
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oh my god its that time of the month again. Thread is due at least one more meltdown before the new season starts... let it begin
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Mar 16, 2017 14:06
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NtotheTC posted:McLaren explore Mercedes engine option after Honda problems They will go from 10th to 4th, if they are lucky.
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Mar 16, 2017 14:10
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wicka posted:Stop being such a loving little poo poo: Again, you are reading what you want to read in my posts, not what I'm actually writing. At no point in any of those did I say anything close to "Liberty should do X or do Y." What I did say was that their business model doesn't make any sense to me as currently presented. 1) If Liberty cuts sanctioning fees, then they will lose revenue. I don't think that's all that controversial. 2) If Liberty raises sanctioning fees, then they push more tracks out of business. I don't think anyone disputes that either. 3) I don't think Liberty is going to be able increase the rights fees for Television and Internet enough to satisfy Liberty's investors. Liberty's investors expect to make a lot of money on their investment. However, that seems unlikely to me because of 1, 2, and 3. At this point I'll just drop it unless someone besides Wicka is interested.
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Mar 16, 2017 14:11
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Human Grand Prix posted:They will go from 10th to 4th, if they are lucky. I think this is probably more them saying "No you have to actually hire Illien and listen to what he says or we can't get to the front" than it is about the possibility of them actually leaving and putting a giant hole in their budget while doing so.
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Mar 16, 2017 14:17
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Doing #1 will ideally produce a long term revenue growth since it will draw more interest into the sport since you aren't chasing dictator money running races in places that no one gives a poo poo about. This will result in an increase in TV/Stream revenue and poo poo like that. I think this is the right approach. Getting Brawn to make the on track product less lovely is another approach with the same goal. The question which you are seem to be raising is if Liberty will have the patience to eat short term losses to produce a long-term gain. They have seemed pretty competent so far so I think they will. But it certainly is a possibility that 5 years from now they will face some internal pressure to add a bunch of oil country races in order to raise share value or something if they aren't getting the growth they are anticipating. GOOD TIMES ON METH fucked around with this message at 14:20 on Mar 16, 2017 |
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Mar 16, 2017 14:17
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daslog posted:Again, you are reading what you want to read in my posts, not what I'm actually writing. At no point in any of those did I say anything close to "Liberty should do X or do Y." What I did say was that their business model doesn't make any sense to me as currently presented. Liberty aren't a private equity firm or investment company like CVC or Waddell & Reed though, so your assumption that investors will want a poo poo hot ROI doesn't hold in my opinion. The chairman holds the majority of voting shares, so if he's happy with Chase Carey and co nurturing F1 to be a stable, growing business rather than trying to do a Bernie and run the sport like the mafia, then it's all gravy. As Wicka said, the way that FOM was run by Bernie was unhealthy and unsustainable after the money started to dry up in the post-tobacco advertising era. The 'gently caress you, pay me' model made Bernie rich but was toxic for F1's long term financial future and should not be seen as a benchmark to compare Liberty's modus operandi. Theophany fucked around with this message at 14:23 on Mar 16, 2017 |
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Mar 16, 2017 14:19
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I wrote some poo poo but everyone else said it first. I think the only other thing I'd add is that Liberty is a public company and ultimately cares more about growth than they do raw revenue numbers.GOOD TIMES ON METH posted:But it certainly is a possibility that 5 years from now they will face some internal pressure to add a bunch of oil country races in order to raise share value or something if they aren't getting the growth they are anticipating. This should be the real concern with Liberty. They might knock it out of the park now, but if the sport is healthy and stable in 5-10 years, what dumb poo poo are they going to resort to in order to inflate growth? wicka fucked around with this message at 14:25 on Mar 16, 2017 |
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Mar 16, 2017 14:21
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GOOD TIMES ON METH posted:Doing #1 will ideally produce a long term revenue growth since it will draw more interest into the sport since you aren't chasing dictator money running races in places that no one gives a poo poo about. This will result in an increase in TV/Stream revenue and poo poo like that. I think this is the right approach. Getting Brawn to make the on track product less lovely is another approach with the same goal. If that's their plan, then good luck to them. I don't see how they can make that much additional money in the TV/Streaming business. I can see small increases in TV rights in Europe, but not on the scale needed to make up the lost revenue. That leaves America where NBC averaged a whopping 482,000 viewers a race last year. It's hard to get much better than that when the races are on at 7 AM.
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Mar 16, 2017 14:30
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http://www.mclaren.com/formula1/her...Mika%20Hakkinen Like rats boarding a sinking ship...... wait
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Mar 16, 2017 14:32
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Theophany posted:The 'gently caress you, pay me' model made Bernie rich but was toxic for F1's long term financial future and should not be seen as a benchmark to compare Liberty's modus operandi. This can't be stressed enough. It's inherently wrong to compare any proper way of running a business to the nightmare that Bernie orchestrated.
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Mar 16, 2017 14:32
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I think they could actually have way more viewers in the US than they do now and part of that is not running races in Baku. My guess is that this is the primary reason why Liberty bought the thing in the first place, in that it was something that could have mass appeal with flaws that they could fix.
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Mar 16, 2017 14:33
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Theophany posted:Liberty aren't a private equity firm or investment company like CVC or Waddell & Reed though, so your assumption that investors will want a poo poo hot ROI doesn't hold in my opinion. The chairman holds the majority of voting shares, so if he's happy with Chase Carey and co nurturing F1 to be a stable, growing business rather than trying to do a Bernie and run the sport like the mafia, then it's all gravy. This is all true, on top of that owning big brands like "Pepsi" or "Formula 1" can be ways of boosting the image of the investment firm. While they might break even or even take a small loss on f1 (worst case), it makes it easier for a "mom and pop" sugar corporation or oil refinery concern to sign on the dotted line "Wow those guys own Pepsi/F1". And they make the money back that way, or turn a bigger profit.
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Mar 16, 2017 14:37
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1500quidporsche posted:I think this is probably more them saying "No you have to actually hire Illien and listen to what he says or we can't get to the front" than it is about the possibility of them actually leaving and putting a giant hole in their budget while doing so. It's clearly a pressure tactic, yeah. Also isn't AS full of poo poo?
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Mar 16, 2017 14:39
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McLaren's formula 1 rattle makes me sad. gently caress everything
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Mar 16, 2017 14:43
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McLaren will probably never go away, they'll just become Williams. Remember how Williams was in 2013.
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Mar 16, 2017 14:48
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2013 was such a lovely season holy crap.
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Mar 16, 2017 14:49
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Human Grand Prix posted:It's clearly a pressure tactic, yeah. Also isn't AS full of poo poo? Can't it be both? It's probably a pressure tactic right now but they'll need to have something planned in the eventuality that Honda simply never gets their poo poo together.
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Mar 16, 2017 14:51
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GOOD TIMES ON METH posted:I think they could actually have way more viewers in the US than they do now and part of that is not running races in Baku. My guess is that this is the primary reason why Liberty bought the thing in the first place, in that it was something that could have mass appeal with flaws that they could fix. There are many challenges with F1 and America. 1) The Race start times are terrible. Fixing that means less races that Europeans can see. (Think Canadian GP times) 2) No American drivers means no American interest. 2a) No Feeder system in America means no American Drivers. 3) Every year, fewer Americans have been watching racing. 4) Americans by and large don't watch sports where Americans are not competitive. On the plus side, out of 318,000,000 Americans, only 482,000 watched F1 last year. That's 1/10th of 1 percent, so the only way to go is up.
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Mar 16, 2017 14:55
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daslog posted:There are many challenges with F1 and America. 
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Mar 16, 2017 14:59
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Human Grand Prix posted:2013 was such a lovely season holy crap. It was marginally promising until Silverstone, then it just became a farce.
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Mar 16, 2017 14:59
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daslog posted:There are many challenges with F1 and America. Races hosted in North America are pretty sociable hours for Europeans, actually. More races in the US and less in characterless Middle Eastern shitholes would be good and cool imo. The only races I don't begrudge their ungodly hours are Suzuka and Melbourne - gently caress getting up early after a Saturday night bender to watch the Abu Dhabi or Chinese GP live. At least they had the good sense to host Bahrain and Singapore as night races.
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Mar 16, 2017 15:02
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Yeah, a US GP in either Eastern or Central is 6-8 and 7-9pm UK, an hour later for europe. EST is practically prime time.
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Mar 16, 2017 15:14
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I prefer the races that are on at 8am in the US, nothing ever conflicts with them. Noon is alright too. A lot of IndyCar races are on in prime time and I can almost never watch them.
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Mar 16, 2017 15:22
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daslog posted:There are many challenges with F1 and America. - Produce better ones. - F1's feeder system has always been Europe focused and based. This has never seemed to bother South American, Australian, or Japanese drivers. Human Grand Prix fucked around with this message at 15:27 on Mar 16, 2017 |
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Mar 16, 2017 15:25
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Liberty focusing on growing F1 in the US will almost certainly lead to bigger American companies being willing to back American drivers.
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Mar 16, 2017 15:27
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wicka posted:I prefer the races that are on at 8am in the US, nothing ever conflicts with them. Noon is alright too. A lot of IndyCar races are on in prime time and I can almost never watch them. 8 am on a sunday, a bowl of fruit loops, a bottle of beer and some formula 1, that's my church, can i get an AMEN edit: gently caress australia, china, malaysia, japan. every other race is 8-9am or 1-3pm here. Powershift fucked around with this message at 15:30 on Mar 16, 2017 |
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Mar 16, 2017 15:27
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Pablo Bluth posted:The issue is that the fastest way to drive economically is extreme lift-and-coast. The FIA don't like that because it increases the chance of rear-ending where the chasing driver is caught unaware by the driver in front lifting earlier. Thanks, interesting little article. It seems a bit of a generic excuse placeholder, because isn't racing in general mostly about accelerating quickly and braking as late and hard as possible, leading to "huge and very dangerous differences of speed [between cars] on the same lap" anyway? I don't see why cars would want to coast down the straight, especially if there was competition around them. wicka posted:I wrote some poo poo but everyone else said it first. I think the only other thing I'd add is that Liberty is a public company and ultimately cares more about growth than they do raw revenue numbers. Didn't they want to add more races to the calendar anyway? Once the "classic" circuits are back on the calendar and healthy, I wouldn't object to the odd WellDoneBaku or Sochi if it provides a cash injection and doesn't come at the cost of Monza or whatever.
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Mar 16, 2017 15:32
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Human Grand Prix posted:- Produce better ones. South america, australia and japan dont have local racing series as big as formula 1, Indycar, WEC, NASCAR or WRC. A world class brazillian driver has to leave brazil to "make it", an American driver does not. Hell, you see far more europeans in Indycar than you do Americans in F1. Powershift posted:8 am on a sunday, a bowl of fruit loops, a bottle of beer and some formula 1, that's my church, can i get an AMEN AMEN! I started watching in late 2007 (explains my lewis fandom i think) and my favorite thing was waking up at 7AM and watching the race first thing in the morning with breakfast. When it was over, i still had the whole day ahead of me! I made a big, big mistake and got friends into the sport who have to "do things" and "work" on sunday, so often i have to wait until the evening to watch f1. Its hell. Flesh Croissant fucked around with this message at 15:40 on Mar 16, 2017 |
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Mar 16, 2017 15:37
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Super Formula and Super GT are quite large.
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Mar 16, 2017 15:44
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There really isn't a strong following for karting either. Canada has some decent clubs but you end up having to knock half the year off because of the weather. There's no place for kids to get their start which is has hurt even more now that the age for entering the sport is ridiculously low.
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Mar 16, 2017 15:47
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TurboDrizzle posted:australia and japan dont have local racing series as big as formula 1, Indycar, WEC, NASCAR or WRC. Australia and Japan absolutely have indigenous racing car series with followings akin to any of the examples you listed (aside from F1, which doesn't belong on a list including WEC, NASCAR, WRC or Indycar). Are they pathways to F1? No. Should they be? No. F1 has always been a fairly unique beast and until someone in Australia (not ever going to happen, the money just isn't there) or Japan (I doubt it'll happen, they seem happy enough doing their own thing) is prepared to dump large wads of cash to actually make it happen, it's not going to happen.
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Mar 16, 2017 15:49
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1500quidporsche posted:There really isn't a strong following for karting either. Canada has some decent clubs but you end up having to knock half the year off because of the weather. There's no place for kids to get their start which is has hurt even more now that the age for entering the sport is ridiculously low. Just be a billionaire or dead racing driver's kid, I don't see why Canadians think they have it all that tough. 
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Mar 16, 2017 15:52
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If liberty are as sensible as they appear to be, then I expect some sort of Formula USA youth program to start up. Americans love their college football, so market it as the racing equivalent and run it at US tracks and air in US time zones. Winners progress into F2 and in a few years time you should have someone the public are fully invested in in F1.
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Mar 16, 2017 15:55
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Americans don't like anything they can't win every time, basically the only like sports nobody else plays. They've won the superbowl 51 times in a row and are 110 for 112 in the world series. That's what it takes for them to give a poo poo. bringing in an american series that's not seen as the top level series will end up like major league soccer.
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Mar 16, 2017 16:01
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Powershift posted:Americans don't like anything they can't win every time, basically the only like sports nobody else plays. They've won the superbowl 51 times in a row and are 110 for 112 in the world series. That's what it takes for them to give a poo poo. If F1 could make the same amount of money from America MLS makes on top of what they currently make, they'd be very happy.
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Mar 16, 2017 16:03
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