Saint Drogo posted:

More miniatures...costs more money??

Bad Decision Dino posted:

I don't want to argue with that guy, he sounds like a tool.

You could also just play 500 points of regular 40k or whatever? The assertion that 40k can only be played and or enjoyed at 1800 or above is simply untrue.

Lord_Hambrose posted:

Hey, if you guys just want to play a good game and don't have the financial power to play 40k with the big boys, just get into historicals like every cost conscious Grog throughout gaming history.

Perry Brothers plastics are incredible, and frankly everyone should play Sharp Practice 2.

spectralent posted:

What scale is the game designed (heh) around though? Like, most games will have a point scale and will also say "but bigger or smaller games are possible!", when in actuality a smaller game doesn't give you enough points for essential elements, and bigger becomes a massive grinding slog. There was a 1000 point game of FoW at the club the other day while we were inducting a newbie, and it was notable just how badly the variance holds up at that level; there were lists with two tank platoons because EW german armour just can't make a list at that points level.

There's absolutely a lot of wiggle in a point's scale, but I'd be really surprised if 500 points is legitimately the same game as 1800 or 2500 or whatever's the suggested point scale these days.

Thirsty Dog posted:

I'm not sure I have the energy to argue with someone who thinks that playing 40k at 500 points is a valid concept in this discussion

Chill la Chill posted:

Can't wait until someone suggests how cool and awesome it is to lug around a full army list's worth of orcs in 40k 8e and have it be virus bombed on turn 1.

Bad Decision Dino posted:

I cannot wait to forge this exciting narrative.

Atlas Hugged posted:

At least then you could get multiple games in in an evening!

Atlas Hugged posted:

I don't think Gorkamorka had virus bombs or vortex grenades.

Thirsty Dog posted:

Like you can play WMH with just the battle group and there's rules and scenarios and official support and everything, but no-one pretends that's how the game is designed

Chill la Chill posted:

Orcs are pretty drat good in forbidden Stars.

Thirsty Dog posted:

Forbidden Stars is great and I'm legit sad the proposed expansion will never see the light of day

Thirsty Dog posted:

I think you'll find that's Orks, buddy.


Forbidden Stars is great and I'm legit sad the proposed expansion will never see the light of day

spectralent posted:

What happened to it?

Lord_Hambrose posted:

Hey, if you guys just want to play a good game and don't have the financial power to play 40k with the big boys, just get into historicals like every cost conscious Grog throughout gaming history.

Perry Brothers plastics are incredible, and frankly everyone should play Sharp Practice 2.

spectralent posted:

Ah for some reason I thought forbidden stars was the osprey one

spectralent posted:

Ah for some reason I thought forbidden stars was the osprey one

Numlock posted:

Your not a real grog until you make a post complaining about a box of plastic mans with 30 beautiful 28mm dudes (enough for your whole force) costs $40 when back in 1996 you could buy a box of 40 metal ones that looked like errect turds for $35.

Chill la Chill posted:

Can't wait until someone suggests how cool and awesome it is to lug around a full army list's worth of orcs in 40k 8e and have it be virus bombed on turn 1.

Thirsty Dog posted:

Forbidden Stars is great and I'm legit sad the proposed expansion will never see the light of day

Chill la Chill posted:

Can't wait until someone suggests how cool and awesome it is to lug around a full army list's worth of orcs in 40k 8e and have it be virus bombed on turn 1.

Playing a game that takes several suitcases to play instead of a small pack I can take through the subway/bus to game at the LGS after work, yeah that sounds great! Might explain why the infinity/WMH/x wangs game nights at the stores around here can be scheduled for weekdays instead of just weekends for WH/40k, if that.

tallkidwithglasses posted:

Real talk, heroic scale mini games actually all cost about the same. Calth/Prospero runs ~125ish and can reasonably be about 1000 points of GW mans, the warmahordes intro boxes are $40 for a 0 point battlegroup but the non boardgame plastic models are actually a little more expensive than GW, so getting up to a 75 point tournament list is probably $150 if you go for cheap and not optimal (and you need 2 lists for a tournament), and infinity and malifaux are pretty similar.

GW has the advantage of lots of old armies on eBay though.

Thirsty Dog posted:

Like, I haven't played 40k in a long time, but even I'm aware that <£100 doesn't buy you much of an army. For a fun experiment I thought I'd put together an army that would've been lots of points way back in the day and tot it up using an online army builder (Epic Roster)

So, from the site (sorry GW, I'm not in Ireland)

Captain £18
10-man Tac Squad £25 (used as 2 squads ingame)
5-man Terminator Squad £28 (this is a good price IMO)
5-man Devastator Squad £28
Dreadnought £28
5-man Assault Squad £25

Before specialist wargear but adding in available weapons, that's under 1000pts. For 27 models of one of the more points-expensive armies in the game. Coming out at ~£150. You're still looking at another 900pts or so from somewhere to match.

The price comparison does not work in GW's favour, even when you can point at individual models or squads and compare them favourably with the competition, price-wise.

Look at Infinity's Yu Jing Starter Pack. It's €40 from CB themselves. It's just 6 models. That's expensive compared to GW - though I much prefer the models - but they're a significant chunk of an army list:

3x ZHANSHI (Combi Rifle) (33pts in total)
1x TIGER SOLDIER Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) (Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower) (33pts)
1x HSIEN (HMG) (61 points)
1x ZÚYǑNG (MULTI Rifle) (28 points)

That's 155 points, over halfway to a full sized force.

Bad Decision Dino posted:

If you bought the Start Collecting! Space Marines or Betrayal at Calth you could get a pretty decent Space Marines army for a lower price. These would be perfectly viable options for games of Kill Team and Combat Patrol, which is were the game is best for new players anyway.

Thirsty Dog posted:

Betrayal at Calth is £95 for

- A Captain in Terminator Armour and a Dark Apostle;
- A Contemptor Dreadnought, armed with a choice of multi-melta or assault cannon;
- Five Cataphractii Terminators, with weapon options including combi bolters, power fists, lightning claws, chain fists, power swords, heavy flamers and grenade harnesses;
- Thirty Legion Tactical Space Marines in MK4 armour, with a huge selection of weapons and custom features, including bolters, missile launchers, heavy bolters, chainswords, power swords, power fists, plasma pistols, lightning claw blades, combi flamer, melta and plasma guns, a melta bomb and a set of combat blades! These miniatures also include ammo packs, holstered bolt pistols and a selection of frag and krak grenades.

someone else can price that up points-wise as I need to head out, but those goalposts seem to be shifting from "playing a game of 40k" to "playing a game of 40k that isn't 40k but is designed for low model counts / intros to the rules". Which is fine as I think Kill Team is a legit good idea even if the ruleset doesn't really work at that level, but let's compare apples to apples here.

Otherwise that €40 Yu Jing set is all you need for Infinity's version of the starter game. Or Operation: Icestorm at £65, which has two armies, a game mat, scenery, and a bunch of other stuff.

Thirsty Dog posted:

Argue with the guy who choose to use "you need two lists for tournaments" as an argument against WMH, then.

40k isn't kill team and kill team is some barely supported mod for 40k.

tallkidwithglasses posted:

Here's where I suggest buying Calth or Prospero as a reasonable point of entry into GW-land, or buying an old army on eBay:

Here is where a very good forums poster moves the goalposts and prices out everything individually in order to make some kind of point I guess:

Thirsty Dog posted:

Real talk, 40k tournament size is 1850 at the lowest usually, and the equivalent 300pts of Infinity tends to be either 10 man or a little bit over. I can buy a 300 point tournament-legal army - where 300 points are the mainstay and not some "well, you can play 150 or 200 to get a feel for the game" style thing - for £72.

Good luck buying your 40k army for £72.

Secondly, it's very rare that 2 lists for a tournament in WMH don't share models.

quote:

Here is where another poster points out Calth is an option:

Here is where Very Good Poster screeches autistically without knowing how much of an army you can actually build in Calth (hint, if you're playing Horus Heresy it can be a 1500 point force if you give out lots of upgrades, and it's definitely over 1000 points if you're more conservative. Way bigger than combat patrol/victory is vengeance/shadow war). Ironically this is also where our friend accuses the thread of moving the goalposts.

quote:

Kill team is supported. It's a small part of the larger GW offering but because there are orders of magnitude more GW games players in most areas than other games, it's still pretty easy to find an opponent. Shadow war just dropped and it sold out in like an hour, lots of people will be playing squad/platoon scale 40k these days.

quote:

This thread is bad. Maybe people should read posts instead of punching the big ol GW fan strawman.

Thirsty Dog posted: