|
K. Waste posted:Frankly, MST3K already had a pretty bad hit-to-miss ratio, so there's really no room for disappointment. There are a select few episodes which have the right combination of host segments and riffing that treads the line between parodying the experiments and (the more important part) retroactively making them into good comedies. But then there's all the rest, which is basically anti-comedy and dense referential humor that sometimes gets so specific you wonder if someone who got it would even find it funny. See, I don't think this is true at all. MST3K, even in heavily sanitized form like the movie, always felt like it was born from a genuine love of film. For the most part, RiffTrax and Cinematic Titanic have continued that tradition. MST3K just feels weird to look back at sometimes because it spawned a whole host of awful gimmicks trying to claim its legacy (like How It Should Have Ended, or CinemaSins) and a whole bunch of people riffing on movies without any idea of what humor actually is. The beauty of MST3K's referential humor is that it's actually rooted in a joke -- the reference itself isn't the joke. That's how we get poo poo like Family Guy and "I'M THE JUGGERNAUT, BITCH!" in X-Men: The Last Stand.
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2017 22:11
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 11, 2024 08:01 |
|
|
Timby posted:See, I don't think this is true at all. MST3K, even in heavily sanitized form like the movie, always felt like it was born from a genuine love of film. For the most part, RiffTrax and Cinematic Titanic have continued that tradition. I've only seen a few Rifftrax, so maybe I just picked out bad ones, but they absolutely oozed contempt. MST3K didn't have that problem as often but there are still a lot of movies where they aren't really improving matters any. (Godzilla vs. Megalon, for instance, is funnier without the commentary.)
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2017 22:14
|
|
|
"Comedy" movie commentary has never and will never be funny
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2017 22:17
|
|
|
precision posted:I apologize for my alternate sense of humor? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiEu8rkQHCQ Heres the highlights. Enough of this derail! Punisher is done filming and ETA ??? for release FALL?
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2017 22:18
|
|
|
It drives me crazy when they say a riff and end up talking over a line in the movie that's actually funnier.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2017 22:18
|
|
|
precision posted:It drives me crazy when they say a riff and end up talking over a line in the movie that's actually funnier. I like rifftrax but there is movies that they just get in the way of. Miami Connection for starters.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2017 22:20
|
|
|
I always thought the only bad blood was between everybody and Jim Mallon.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2017 22:25
|
|
|
precision posted:Yeah I have to agree, even as someone who's watched every episode at least 2 or 3 times (I tend to leave it on in the background while I do other stuff). It's quite hard to sit down and watch a whole episode unless the movie itself is hilarious on its own merits... Exactly. I forget where I read it, but a feminist scholar was writing about specialty video-order catalogues, and discussed how part of the appeal of low budget exploitation films and other forms of 'para-cinema' is the "brute address" created between the contemporary spectator/consumer and this 'obscene' or 'dirty' video artifact. Obviously, sexploitation and porn films are the most succinct examples of this - as John Waters says in the interview on the Criterion for Beyond the Valley of the Dolls, there was a time when people actually did find these works arousing, but now the collective schemata which these filmmakers exploited is no longer there. But you can see the same thing in any number of films featured (and deliberately butchered) on MST3K. The irony is that, as you say, MST3K itself now suffers from the "brute address." It is all too obviously not a sustainable work of consistent comedic genius, but, indeed, even a kind of cynical and nihilistic lark that, like the subjects it mocks, was never 'meant' to move beyond a certain cultural and historical accessibility. Timby posted:MST3K just feels weird to look back at sometimes because it spawned a whole host of awful gimmicks trying to claim its legacy (like How It Should Have Ended, or CinemaSins) and a whole bunch of people riffing on movies without any idea of what humor actually is. The beauty of MST3K's referential humor is that it's actually rooted in a joke -- the reference itself isn't the joke. That's how we get poo poo like Family Guy and "I'M THE JUGGERNAUT, BITCH!" in X-Men: The Last Stand. The thing is, I don't really pay attention to the 'legacy' of MST3K, per se. I don't watch these things, not because I think they'll dilute my appreciation for the show, but because I already find them independently unfunny and cynical. On their own, most MST3K episodes are not actually much better than the films they mock. That's all I mean. I don't mean I think they were lazy, or malicious towards the subject, or anything at all like that.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2017 22:29
|
|
|
Junkie Disease posted:I have no idea how to search for old tweets but Trace said like a month ago they do get residuals. As far as I know, this is relatively new and happened right before/during the kickstarter for the reboot, so there's years and years of backlog that they missed out on, won't be compensated for, and I guess they're still pissed over it. They did the live reunion Rifftrax show, and everyone seemed to get along. Junkie Disease posted:I like rifftrax but there is movies that they just get in the way of. I wish Miami Connection were still on Netflix. Friends forever We'll be together We're on top 'Cause we play to win
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2017 22:29
|
|
|
K. Waste posted:I already find them independently unfunny and cynical. This is rich, coming from a master of cynical word salad like yourself.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2017 22:38
|
|
|
Tuxedo Catfish posted:I've only seen a few Rifftrax, so maybe I just picked out bad ones, but they absolutely oozed contempt. MST3K didn't have that problem as often but there are still a lot of movies where they aren't really improving matters any. (Godzilla vs. Megalon, for instance, is funnier without the commentary.) I'm a fan of MST3K, both the Joel and Mike episodes, but for some reason Rifftrax never worked for me, despite trying a fair amount of the ones that are on Amazon Prime. I think you're right to a degree that they have more contempt for what they're watching than the old MST3K episodes. Another big problem for me is that Rifftrax sounds so much less natural than the MST3K episodes. The Rifftrax trio sounds like they're all trying to do radio voiceovers and it seems really inauthentic.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2017 23:00
|
|
|
ChineseConnection posted:I'm a fan of MST3K, both the Joel and Mike episodes, but for some reason Rifftrax never worked for me, despite trying a fair amount of the ones that are on Amazon Prime. I think you're right to a degree that they have more contempt for what they're watching than the old MST3K episodes. Another big problem for me is that Rifftrax sounds so much less natural than the MST3K episodes. The Rifftrax trio sounds like they're all trying to do radio voiceovers and it seems really inauthentic. Same. There's a big appeal to the surprise of figuring out what The Wild Wild World of Batwoman is at the expense of the movie, but I already know Twilight is terrible, I don't need Mike and crew to throw jokes through my speakers. I had friends that only liked Rifftrax and not MST3k, and I couldn't deal with it. I killed them.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2017 23:04
|
|
|
Franchescanado posted:I had friends that only liked Rifftrax and not MST3k, and I couldn't deal with it. You did God and Darwin's work. Well done.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2017 23:58
|
|
|
Timby posted:This is rich, coming from a master of cynical word salad like yourself. Actually, I'm brutally optimistic: While there are many good and funny episodes of MST3K, there are loads of other ones which function better as the exact kind of para-cinema they mock. Like, a running gag and meta-narrative throughout the series is that Dr. Forrester is the secret protagonist of the show, who is literally pretending that he has access to all these film reels and advanced technology to distract from the fact that he's literally just broadcasting to Joel on lovely, local access video equipment. The movies are all VHS rips. Not only that, but Forrester edits them himself, deliberately confusing his subject. The movie, while funny, undermines the layering of audiovisual traditions of the show (from cinema and celluloid - to tape and television) by having the characters watch a reasonably-preserved, original aspect film print. The optical effect is so smooth that it actually falls short of the 'imprisoned' aspect ratio for squarer TVs, which better complimented the semi-masochistic premise, that these characters obviously, to a certain extent, want to stay prisoners.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2017 00:00
|
|
|
K. Waste posted:Actually, I'm brutally optimistic: While there are many good and funny episodes of MST3K, there are loads of other ones which function better as the exact kind of para-cinema they mock. have you ever tried repeating to yourself "it's just a show, I should really just relax"?
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2017 00:21
|
|
|
Uncle Boogeyman posted:have you ever tried repeating to yourself "it's just a show, I should really just relax"? That lyric comes after one about tactical realism. The opening acknowledges the artifice of the show immediately. I am not talking about realism.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2017 00:36
|
|
|
K. Waste posted:That lyric comes after one about tactical realism. The opening acknowledges the artifice of the show immediately. I am not talking about realism. Congratulations on finding this loophole in the lyrics of the MST3K theme song. You've got them dead to rights now.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2017 02:34
|
|
|
K. Waste posted:That lyric comes after one about tactical realism. The opening acknowledges the artifice of the show immediately. I am not talking about realism. Okay, but Uncle Boogeyman posted:have you ever tried repeating to yourself "it's just a show, I should really just relax"?
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2017 03:25
|
|
|
remember when "turn your brain off" was probatable
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2017 03:43
|
|
|
Timby posted:This is rich, coming from a master of cynical word salad like yourself. Geez, rude. Uncle Boogeyman posted:have you ever tried repeating to yourself "it's just a show, I should really just relax"? Yeah but what does he eat?
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2017 04:06
|
|
|
Sarchasm posted:Congratulations on finding this loophole in the lyrics of the MST3K theme song. You've got them dead to rights now. Uncle Boogeyman posted:Okay, but MST3K is just a TV show. It is also part of a larger tradition of cult cinema/television and now direct-to-digital, streaming, and video sharing. I am writing about these things because they are interesting. edit: When they sing, 'don't think too much about it,' they did not mean don't think about it ever. K. Waste fucked around with this message at 04:49 on Apr 11, 2017 |
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2017 04:47
|
|
|
I appreciate the posts if only because they give me an excuse for never finding MST3K funny after trying to watch it on rented DVD & later, youtube.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2017 05:48
|
|
|
MST3K will always have a special place in my heart because I loved it so much as a kid up through high school, but for the most part I really don't find it very funny anymore. There are some funny jokes in there but it's kind of a slog to watch now and it's 95% of them are pretty lame. I went to one of those live rifftrax things and it was just so bad I realized I was sort of over the format. I'll still go and throw on Egah or Space mutiny once every few years in the background, but I really don't have any interest in any sort of reboot. I think I prefer to just make MST3K a fond childhood memory tbh.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2017 06:00
|
|
|
Good news it's free with Netflix to try.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2017 06:08
|
|
|
K. Waste posted:When they sing, 'don't think too much about it,' they did not mean don't think about it ever. Don't misunderstand, I'm genuinely excited that we've established the scope of this discussion through a close reading of the MST3K theme song. It was touch and go for a minute but I think we all dodged a bullet here today.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2017 06:49
|
|
|
I'm trying to watch new miniseries/documentary about Hugh Hefner on Prime but there's some giant creative mistakes that's making it a slog. Not only did they chose about the worst person in the world to play Hugh (who's also doing all the VO in first person!); they thought it would be a great idea to crop/stretch all the very beat up archival footage to 16:9.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2017 08:37
|
|
|
Hat Thoughts posted:I appreciate the posts if only because they give me an excuse for never finding MST3K funny after trying to watch it on rented DVD & later, youtube. Pod People will make you a believer. In fact, I think I'll watch it now.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2017 09:43
|
|
|
Just finished Kubo and the Two Strings at my girlfriend's insistence. It's from the same company that produced Coraline and Paranorman. Doesn't quite reach the heights of Paranorman, but Kubo is a visually and narratively engrossing film that has a message about dealing with death which lingers long after the film. It's a seriously good movie. If you have kids it's a perfect family film. Maybe close their eyes during the squid monster part.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2017 09:57
|
|
|
K. Waste posted:Actually, I'm brutally optimistic: While there are many good and funny episodes of MST3K, there are loads of other ones which function better as the exact kind of para-cinema they mock. What is a "VHS rip"? MST3K comes from the tradition of local tv horror host shows and is literally a recreation of those shows. It's painfully earnest and I pity you for being unable to read it in historical context. There was a time before dvd.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2017 10:01
|
|
|
The Puppy Bowl posted:Just finished Kubo and the Two Strings at my girlfriend's insistence. It's from the same company that produced Coraline and Paranorman. Doesn't quite reach the heights of Paranorman, but Kubo is a visually and narratively engrossing film that has a message about dealing with death which lingers long after the film. It's a seriously good movie. If you have kids it's a perfect family film. Echoes my thoughts pretty much exactly about the movie. I really found it fascinating though with the behind the scenes clip at the end showing just how big the giant skeleton puppet was. That thing was something like 15 feet tall.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2017 10:48
|
|
|
The Puppy Bowl posted:Just finished Kubo and the Two Strings at my girlfriend's insistence. It's from the same company that produced Coraline and Paranorman. Doesn't quite reach the heights of Paranorman, but Kubo is a visually and narratively engrossing film that has a message about dealing with death which lingers long after the film. It's a seriously good movie. If you have kids it's a perfect family film. This is the perfect time to remind people that Coraline is on Netflix and it's so loving good. I prefer it to ParaNorman in many ways, one of them being Bruno Coulais's fantastic soundtrack. I'll check out Kubo this weekend. I missed it in theaters and love stop motion.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2017 13:21
|
|
|
Jack Gladney posted:What is a "VHS rip"? How the HELL don't you know what a VHS rip is?
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2017 14:19
|
|
|
Jack Gladney posted:MST3K comes from the tradition of local tv horror host shows and is literally a recreation of those shows. It's painfully earnest and I pity you for being unable to read it in historical context. There was a time before dvd. I have written that MST3K is part of a long tradition of cult cinema and TV, but you have bizarrely misread this to exclude historical context. So let's clarify: MST3K is not a literal recreation of local tv horror shows, but an observational/sketch comedy which expands upon them. Instead of simply broadcasting the movies in edited form from VHS transfers with host segments before and after commercial act breaks, they interpolate the hosts as characters into a setting that simulates being in a movie theater. Hodgson's concept shifts the aesthetic and thematic emphasis away from the movies to the culture of deliberately watching bad movies itself, literally and figuratively foregrounded. Visually, the influence for this comes from Mike Ross's album art for Elton John's Goodbye Yellow Brick Road, while the characters and setting are inspired by Silent Running. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2017 14:43
|
|
|
But how does that fit in culturally with Svenghouli types, who would cheaply recreate sets so they could film additional cut-aways to be interlaced with the actual film for comedic effects?
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2017 14:46
|
|
|
HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:How the HELL don't you know what a VHS rip is? How is the concept of a VHS rip relevant to understanding a television show from 1990, I mean?
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2017 14:54
|
|
|
K. Waste posted:I have written that MST3K is part of a long tradition of cult cinema and TV, but you have bizarrely misread this to exclude historical context. A big part of the horror host tradition is loving with the movie to generate gags and literally interpolating performers from the wraparound host segments into the film itself as overlays onto stills or actual clips. Elvira sure as poo poo watches the movies and talks about them as cultural artifacts. I'm not saying there's nothing innovative with MST3K, but in your previous post you describe the show with a modern conception of cult cinema (fidelity matters, people care about the quality of film masters in producing the prints they watch, etc) that is fundamentally unlike the vocabulary of late 1980s tv.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2017 15:06
|
|
|
Jack Gladney posted:How is the concept of a VHS rip relevant to understanding a television show from 1990, I mean? Because that's how it was made. Original film reels or negatives are expensive and hard to come by. VHS transfers were used not only for the luma key, "Shadowrama" theater effect - but also as references for the performers, who were watching the film and following a script on hidden video monitors. (You can frequently tell, especially in the Mike seasons, that the characters are not looking up at a big screen, but down in front of them.) These creative choices give MST3K aesthetic and thematic distinction. Again, there is a layering of audiovisual cultures which is fascinating and complements the subject of mockery, independent of whether or not the experiment is funny. Aesthetics and modes of exhibition matter. The reason that RiffTrax falls so short of the MST3K 'legacy' has nothing to do with MST3K actually being that much funnier on average. The problem is that the direct-to-digital format has altered the collective, mediated schemata that MST3K exploited. Instead of watching characters in a low-budget sci-fi TV show watching a heavily edited version of an obscure film, fans are invited to literally watch the entirety of The Lord of the Rings or Harry Potter franchises, un-edited and often in high definition digital formats, with snarky voices talking over it. Jack Gladney posted:A big part of the horror host tradition is loving with the movie to generate gags and literally interpolating performers from the wraparound host segments into the film itself as overlays onto stills or actual clips. Can you give some examples of this?
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2017 15:22
|
|
|
Franchescanado posted:
Only have netflix for a couple more days. Any recommendations I should watch before it disappears. Already planning on seeing TRAIN TO BUSAN
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2017 15:30
|
|
|
Jack Gladney posted:How is the concept of a VHS rip relevant to understanding a television show from 1990, I mean? Ah, I gotcha.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2017 15:40
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 11, 2024 08:01 |
|
|
Shageletic posted:Only have netflix for a couple more days. Any recommendations I should watch before it disappears. Already planning on seeing You like horror: The Eyes of My Mother gets nothing but love in the horror thread, It Follows is still up, Mulholland Drive, Lots of Herzog documentaries including his newest two Lo and Behold and Into The Inferno; The Big Short is good, a lot of good Coen Bros movies, Night Crawler. You can do a John Carpenter double feature with Big Trouble In Little China and Escape From New York. I dunno, what are you in the mood for?
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2017 16:36
|
|