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I'm gonna be real fuckin salty is Luke dies in this. Or even in 9. Killing Han then either killing Leia (or removing her from the narrative) is plenty. OT lives matter dangit
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Apr 17, 2017 04:33
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Ammanas posted:I'm gonna be real fuckin salty is Luke dies in this. Or even in 9. Killing Han then either killing Leia (or removing her from the narrative) is plenty. OT lives matter dangit I have it on good authority that Luke is being sent to a big farm upstate where he can enjoy retirement and have plenty of room to fly around and bullseye womprats in his T-16.
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Apr 17, 2017 04:47
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Die Sexmonster! posted:Either a bunch of characters die in this film or spacetoaster is right. There was footage/quotes in the Rogue One trailers that wasn't in the actual movie. Has that happened in the main storyline movies before?
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Apr 17, 2017 04:53
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General Dog posted:I have it on good authority that Luke is being sent to a big farm upstate where he can enjoy retirement and have plenty of room to fly around and bullseye womprats in his T-16. He's gonna have all the power converters he could ever want up there.
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Apr 17, 2017 04:57
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Kart Barfunkel posted:Senator Orn Free Ta and I had fun.
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Apr 17, 2017 05:01
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spacetoaster posted:There was footage/quotes in the Rogue One trailers that wasn't in the actual movie. Has that happened in the main storyline movies before?
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Apr 17, 2017 05:05
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Lord Hydronium posted:The first full TFA has monologues from each of the main characters, which aren't in the movie. Not to the extent of R1, though (each trailer has an entirely different version of the Mon Mothma briefing, and I'm pretty sure almost none of the teaser footage is in the final movie). Yeah. On the subject of Rogue One, are we ever going to get a director's cut? Also, was the scene with the tie fighter rising up in front of the main character ever explained?
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Apr 17, 2017 05:16
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spacetoaster posted:Yeah.
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Apr 17, 2017 05:20
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Lord Hydronium posted:Specifically added as a hook for the trailer, as I recall. The same shot without the TIE is in the movie. Yup. Wow. quote:There was a bit of a process to refining the third act in terms of the specific shots and moments, and so certain things just fell away. But then what happens is marketing love those shots, and go, “oh, we’ve got to use that.” And you say, “well, it’s not in the movie”. And they say, “it’s okay, it’s what marketing does, we just use the best of whatever you’ve done”. And so there’s lots of little things, but towards the end you go, “I know that’s not in the film, but the spirit of it’s in the film”.
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Apr 17, 2017 05:25
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grieving for Gandalf posted:KotOR2 owns and is what made me like Star Wars in the first place Jeb! Repetition posted:It doesn't because that's the same argument conservatives try to use to cut the social safety net Doing a gauche self-quote because it's good and important for discussion of KOTOR 2. I should have said "convservatives and libertarians" though.
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Apr 17, 2017 05:55
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Jeb! Repetition posted:Doing a gauche self-quote because it's good and important for discussion of KOTOR 2. I should have said "convservatives and libertarians" though. Technically, pulling yourself up by your own bootstraps is possible if you use the Force to do it.
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Apr 17, 2017 06:02
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Hodgepodge posted:Another goon mentioned the novelization last time this came up, where Yoda decides that he's an avatar of the dark side or something, but that contradicts the actual confrontation we are shown. It's been a while since I've seen Revenge of the Sith, but Palpatine's game is always to trap his opponents into committing (moral) errors and lure them into overextending themselves (with violence) as he appears vulnerable. So now that I say that, I appear to be agreeing with you.
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Apr 17, 2017 06:18
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HAT FETISH posted:I had a Chancellor Valorum action figure when I was a lovely 10yo Just pretend it was a General Zod action figure.
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Apr 17, 2017 06:18
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Lord Hydronium posted:I don't care for the "light side" idea mostly, I think, because it puts it on equal semantic footing with the dark side. Which leads to the idea that they're really just two different extremes, the truth is in the middle, and "Grey Jedi" nonsense. I think the cool part about the Grey Jedi is not the balance stuff, it's the idea of another faction of force users, who exist outside the Jedi-Sith system. That idea could take a lot of interesting avenues.
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Apr 17, 2017 08:42
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spacetoaster posted:Sorry if anyone has already talked about this, but I can't read through 300+ comments. I figure it's probably going to be about replacing the Jedi as an institution with something better, since Anikin becoming Darth Vader is a direct result of lovely Jedi teachings, and I guess Ben Solo/Kylo Ren made Luke think twice about recreating a religious order centred around teaching teenagers to be emotionally repressed. Luke is the last living person trained as a Jedi, he's gonna teach Rey to be something else.
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Apr 17, 2017 12:39
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Megasabin posted:I think the cool part about the Grey Jedi is not the balance stuff, it's the idea of another faction of force users, who exist outside the Jedi-Sith system. That idea could take a lot of interesting avenues. But in the films Jedi and Sith are absolutes. There is no room for a middle path. The Jedi Order is too restrictive in its definitions, but Luke is still a Jedi, like his father before him. sassassin fucked around with this message at 12:45 on Apr 17, 2017 |
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Apr 17, 2017 12:43
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The way it's normally handled is a Kyle Katarn-style "what if a character could use all the powers that represent a person's fear and hate and will to dominate being made manifest, consuming and corrupting them absolutely", but safely and without any consequences. Which is not an interesting avenue at all. Just fun videogames,
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Apr 17, 2017 12:50
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Hodgepodge posted:I started to play KotR2 and the first thing it put in front of me was a computer with a bunch of dossiers on my crew or something and I got bored reading them and quit. Jeb! Repetition posted:Doing a gauche self-quote because it's good and important for discussion of KOTOR 2. I should have said "convservatives and libertarians" though. Look at these poo poo and horrible posts
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Apr 17, 2017 13:11
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Lt. Danger posted:Look at these poo poo and horrible posts You only made one post here???
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Apr 17, 2017 13:16
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General Dog posted:I have it on good authority that Luke is being sent to a big farm upstate where he can enjoy retirement and have plenty of room to fly around and bullseye womprats in his T-16. Finally, he will have his power quote:He's gonna have all the power converters he could ever want up there. gently caress
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Apr 17, 2017 13:32
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sassassin posted:The way it's normally handled is a Kyle Katarn-style "what if a character could use all the powers that represent a person's fear and hate and will to dominate being made manifest, consuming and corrupting them absolutely", but safely and without any consequences. Yeah, i think Kyle Katarn is the result of the whole 'make the force more like D&D magic trend.
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Apr 17, 2017 13:41
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Ammanas posted:I'm gonna be real fuckin salty is Luke dies in this. Or even in 9. Killing Han then either killing Leia (or removing her from the narrative) is plenty. OT lives matter dangit Unlike the other two, Luke is a good candidate for Force ghost, so Mark Hamill can age gracefully into a voice-only role.
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Apr 17, 2017 13:58
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Ammanas posted:I'm gonna be real fuckin salty is Luke dies in this. Or even in 9. Killing Han then either killing Leia (or removing her from the narrative) is plenty. OT lives matter dangit Im the opposite, Im salty they were all alive and hope that at least itll be like the OT and every character from the previous trilogy except the droids dies before the end.
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Apr 17, 2017 14:03
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I was out for dinner with my relatives tonight. My six year old cousin has discovered Star Wars. He's watched all of them on repeat. I was quizzing him on trivia like Hans reply to "I love you." Then I asked him about darth plagueis the wise and not only could he recount the tale but he went over a couple fan theories as to what really happened to him. Later, he also mentioned that Snoke might be Mace Windu. Turns out he's been watching lots of youtube videos on star wars so his knowledge of the mythology is insane. When I was six my knowledge was as far as "the red light saber is the most powerful." Six. He's six. He knows of the Vong. Oh, and I asked him about his thoughts on the prequels vs. the OT. He didn't really distinguish them on quality.
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Apr 17, 2017 14:21
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Red Bones posted:I figure it's probably going to be about replacing the Jedi as an institution with something better, since Anikin becoming Darth Vader is a direct result of lovely Jedi teachings, and I guess Ben Solo/Kylo Ren made Luke think twice about recreating a religious order centred around teaching teenagers to be emotionally repressed. Luke is the last living person trained as a Jedi, he's gonna teach Rey to be something else. Would Disney actually go this route though? Jedi are such an ingrained part of Star Wars. Surely getting rid of the Jedi would likely piss people off?
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Apr 17, 2017 14:25
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Red Bones posted:I figure it's probably going to be about replacing the Jedi as an institution with something better, since Anikin becoming Darth Vader is a direct result of lovely Jedi teachings, and I guess Ben Solo/Kylo Ren made Luke think twice about recreating a religious order centred around teaching teenagers to be emotionally repressed. Luke is the last living person trained as a Jedi, he's gonna teach Rey to be something else. And then they can walk it back in the third movie when Rey says "I am a Jedi, like Luke Skywalker before me" at some critical, emotional moment, and then they can keep their trademark or whatever and laugh all the way to the bank.
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Apr 17, 2017 14:32
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sassassin posted:But in the films Jedi and Sith are absolutes. There is no room for a middle path. I think this kind of goes out the window with the most recent movies though. In A New Hope we learn about falling to the dark side and how that's evil, IIRC "light side" isn't even mentioned in the OT and it really is absolute where if you choose to use the force regularl you either live up to being a Jedi or you don't "once you start down the dark path..." But then at the same time, throughout the end of Empire Strikes Back and first act of Return of the Jedi we learn that Vader is Luke's dad, Obi-Wan lied about his death because in his absolutism Anakin ceased to exist when he was consumed by the dark side, which Luke does not accept, and so on. We see the force in absolute terms because the most powerful force users in the OT are themselves absolutists, Vader, Obi-Wan and Yoda. Each one has one single special application of the force they seem good at. Vader is violent, Obi-Wan is deceptive (which dovetails nicely with how he was lying to Luke about his dad the whole time!), and Yoda is shamanistic. Darth Vader chokes people to death with his mind, Obi-Wan manipulates how people think and see the world, Yoda's mastery of how the force flows is so strong he can lift a spaceship by concentrating for a few seconds. Return of the Jedi regularly depicts Luke as someone who really is a balance between the two extremes. Even when he first enters the film, it's Luke, the good guy from the past two movies, but he's wearing an all black outfit that's clearly evocative of Vader/someone more ominous. When you look at those three extremes of the force using mindset, I mean look at Luke as he's portrayed in A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back. Then when he first appears in Return of the Jedi- This dude is suddenly dressed like a bad guy, then in like fifteen seconds: 1) Uses the force the way Yoda would to open Jabba's big door. 2) Uses the force the way Vader would to choke out a guard. 3) Uses the force the way Obi-Wan would to convince Bib Fortuna to let him see Jabba in person. Finally, when we get to the new movies, there's been plenty of stupid EU characters over the years that are like "We use the force but don't know what Jedi or Sith are so we call it ___ magic wow look how awesome we are" characters, but Force Awaknes officially brings in stuff like the "Church of the Force" canon. And Rogue One introduces Donnie Yen as basically a blind monk that, despite living in lightsaber crystal central (and a city that's both literally inspired by Mecca down to the name and its force crystal contents) has no care for what Jedi/etc. any of that is beyond going with the flow. There's an in-movie precedent for people who know about and can feel the force but still lead a life outside of allying themselves with the Jedi or the Sith. I know it was Lucas' intention and the intention of the early movies that the dark and light side are absolute but it's really hard to read it that way because of the direction the movies have gone in. And even if I don't like the prequels, they do do a decent job depicting how "Jedi" as a government institution become useless by repressing and denying emotion rather than acknowledging and living with them in a balanced way. But it's also a given, even in The Phantom Menace, that the Jedi's reach exceeds its grasp in regards to finding people who are strong in the force and recruiting them at an early age, even Anakin himself is almost rejected from that because he's too old. So it's hard not to imagination there's plenty of people in the Galaxy who could both have heard of and know what the force is and realize effects their lives without actually getting any "real" training or study about it. That said I doubt Luke is seriously going to decide to get rid of the Jedi because I'm sure the info exists for him to be aware of how that went the last time, and for all we know he may even just be talking about his own life in a grand way, or he just loses heart for that scene before Rey or something gives a motivational speech, whatever.
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Apr 17, 2017 14:34
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homullus posted:And then they can walk it back in the third movie when Rey says "I am a Jedi, like Luke Skywalker before me" at some critical, emotional moment, and then they can keep their trademark or whatever and laugh all the way to the bank. This line would be amazingly dark if Luke dies never having changed his stance that the Jedi are bad.
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Apr 17, 2017 14:34
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Disney is absolutely going to keep the Jedi name, itll just be Skywalkerist Jedi versus Paedopairno Jedi, and then the mext trilogy can be about the further splintering of Skywalkerists into Reyisian and Rennite depending on who you believe is the rightfully chosen heir of Anakin
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Apr 17, 2017 14:40
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LMAO that reminds me of how the first of the Thrawn books is called Heir to the Empire. I hope the major characters are named Luuke, Luuuke, and Luuuuke.
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Apr 17, 2017 14:42
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Megasabin posted:I think the cool part about the Grey Jedi is not the balance stuff, it's the idea of another faction of force users, who exist outside the Jedi-Sith system. That idea could take a lot of interesting avenues. The fact that the movies never discuss what happens to Force users who do not join the Jedi is pretty interesting to me. Dooku is said to have been a Jedi who left the Order but he appears to be the only one of his kind, which indicates that their indoctrination is really effective. Its less that there aren't any non-Jedi Force traditions and more that the Jedi do not allow them to exist.
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Apr 17, 2017 14:44
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Neo Rasa posted:I know it was Lucas' intention and the intention of the early movies that the dark and light side are absolute but it's really hard to read it that way because of the direction the movies have gone in. How do you know this? Empire and RotJ both disagree with the idea. Luke is "grey" and is a Jedi, like his father before him. Jedi and Sith are absolutes, but they're not defined by simply adherence to Dark and "light". The original movies already portray a middle path that KotOR supposedly makes seem interesting.
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Apr 17, 2017 14:48
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Serf posted:The fact that the movies never discuss what happens to Force users who do not join the Jedi is pretty interesting to me. Dooku is said to have been a Jedi who left the Order but he appears to be the only one of his kind, which indicates that their indoctrination is really effective. Its less that there aren't any non-Jedi Force traditions and more that the Jedi do not allow them to exist. It's the Jedi Order. You're focused on the wrong keyword.
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Apr 17, 2017 14:50
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Serf posted:The fact that the movies never discuss what happens to Force users who do not join the Jedi is pretty interesting to me. Dooku is said to have been a Jedi who left the Order but he appears to be the only one of his kind, which indicates that their indoctrination is really effective. Its less that there aren't any non-Jedi Force traditions and more that the Jedi do not allow them to exist. If there are other traditions, they stay the hell out of the state funded Jedis way, which makes sense. Based on Rogue One and the prequels I think it's fair to surmise the Jedi werent super involved in correcting the weird syncretic things people added to their force faith or ensuring they were the only religion as long as the Jedi individually were properly trained and no Sith-like teachings snuck in to the wider belief system. And yes, that probably means there were Jedi explicitly tasked with rooting out heresy as part of their government function
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Apr 17, 2017 14:55
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Lampsacus posted:Oh, and I asked him about his thoughts on the prequels vs. the OT. He didn't really distinguish them on quality. Turns out all the YouTube videos and lore in the world can't buy good taste. 
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Apr 17, 2017 14:55
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sassassin posted:How do you know this? Empire and RotJ both disagree with the idea. There's some interview from like mid 00s where he says outright that light side/Jedi are inherently good and dark side/Sith are inherently bad end of story. I'm very aware that Empire and Jedi (and the prequels) disagree with that idea, my entire post was about that.
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Apr 17, 2017 14:58
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sassassin posted:It's the Jedi Order. You're focused on the wrong keyword. Not really, no. The Jedi Order most likely doesn't allow non-Jedi Force users to exist, and either takes children from their parents or kills those who won't come into the fold. I'm betting that the "Count" part of Dooku's title is one of the reasons why he gets to leave.
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Apr 17, 2017 15:03
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Serf posted:Not really, no. The Jedi Order most likely doesn't allow non-Jedi Force users to exist, and either takes children from their parents or kills those who won't come into the fold. bI'm betting that the "Count" part of Dooku's title is one of the reasons why he gets to leave. 
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Apr 17, 2017 15:30
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Neo Rasa posted:There's some interview from like mid 00s where he says outright that light side/Jedi are inherently good and dark side/Sith are inherently bad end of story. Even if those were his intentions I think that only makes the issue more interesting and worthy of discussion. He created two factions that are supposed to represent almost literal good/evil, but then as the actual characters in those factions began to develop over time, very interesting questions emerge as to what exactly does it mean to be good as opposed to evil, can bad things come from good people acting with good intentions, etc. etc. Its what good stories are all about. Simple enough for a child to understand, yet told enough over time that we naturally delve deeper and potentially learn things about ourselves and society.
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Apr 17, 2017 15:32
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Neo Rasa posted:We see the force in absolute terms because the most powerful force users in the OT are themselves absolutists, Vader, Obi-Wan and Yoda. Each one has one single special application of the force they seem good at. Vader is violent, Obi-Wan is deceptive (which dovetails nicely with how he was lying to Luke about his dad the whole time!), and Yoda is shamanistic. Darth Vader chokes people to death with his mind, Obi-Wan manipulates how people think and see the world, Yoda's mastery of how the force flows is so strong he can lift a spaceship by concentrating for a few seconds. The prequels show that this all well and good for a hermit in a bog, but not a man with Yoda's power and responsibility. quote:Return of the Jedi regularly depicts Luke as someone who really is a balance between the two extremes. Even when he first enters the film, it's Luke, the good guy from the past two movies, but he's wearing an all black outfit that's clearly evocative of Vader/someone more ominous. When you look at those three extremes of the force using mindset, I mean look at Luke as he's portrayed in A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back. Then when he first appears in Return of the Jedi- On the other hand, he did actually take up his lightsaber and defeat his father in battle before deciding to spare him and refuse to fight the Emperor, which is how he reached him.
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Apr 17, 2017 15:35
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