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Endorph posted:i still dont get why people hate the corporate ladder gimmick in palace 5. the bosses are super easy, and i was playing on hard. I had to play the resists guessing game with a team that did not have a single element the enemies were weak against and on hard if they got a turn it was usually a wipe or a really awkward position to recover from I was considering backtracking to the safe room after every fight because I was so sick of not guessing the right resists on each boss and getting wiped and then I switched my party to morgana/ann/haru and did it in one shot
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May 2, 2017 10:05
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Most of the dungeons seem to be designed to make the new character particularly useful.
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May 2, 2017 10:21
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Clarste posted:Most of the dungeons seem to be designed to make the new character particularly useful. You're not wrong, but I feel like a lot of people won't bother with any new character for their first dungeon because they won't have Baton Pass or any of the other confidant bonuses.
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May 2, 2017 14:55
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Yeah, there's just no reason to use someone who doesn't have baton pass so a potential re-make definitely needs to make baton pass a baseline skill and tie some other aspect of it to S.Link progress.
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May 2, 2017 14:57
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ChaosArgate posted:You're not wrong, but I feel like a lot of people won't bother with any new character for their first dungeon because they won't have Baton Pass or any of the other confidant bonuses. I used the new party members each dungeon because I thought it was story appropriate to do so.
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May 2, 2017 14:59
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I also used new party members each dungeon for story reasons (and because they were generally useful for their own dungeon), but a potential expansion/rerelease should absolutely make Baton Pass baseline.
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May 2, 2017 14:59
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Make baton pass baseline, but without a social link you don't get the damage bonus, maybe.
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May 2, 2017 15:02
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ChaosArgate posted:You're not wrong, but I feel like a lot of people won't bother with any new character for their first dungeon because they won't have Baton Pass or any of the other confidant bonuses. 3rd palace is the worst for this cos by the time I was ready to send the calling card in ng+ neither yusuke nor makoto had baton pass and it was very noticeable with so many bufu/frei-weak enemies. 4th palace makes up for it by not having one I guess.
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May 2, 2017 15:04
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I didn't really use baton pass that much since Joker had all the elements anyway so I could just him to knock down all of the enemies and then all out attack.
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May 2, 2017 15:04
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Andrast posted:I didn't really use baton pass that much since Joker had all the elements anyway so I could just him to knock down all of the enemies and then all out attack. The good thing about Baton Pass is that if you spread that duty between two party members, it'll work out more cost effective in the long run with SP adhesives. FractalSandwich posted:Make baton pass baseline, but without a social link you don't get the damage bonus, maybe. That would be my go to fix too, but I don't design games so I can't say if there's a better option or anything.
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May 2, 2017 15:07
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Josuke Higashikata posted:The good thing about Baton Pass is that if you spread that duty between two party members, it'll work out more cost effective in the long run with SP adhesives. There was no point in any dungeon after the first one where I was even close to running out of SP. I guess some skills got expensive around palace 7 but I had like 30 master coffee at that point (and a ton of other SP regen items).
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May 2, 2017 15:09
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the actual reason is honestly so you can see Haru's AoA win screen more and more
Josuke Higashikata fucked around with this message at 15:14 on May 2, 2017 |
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May 2, 2017 15:11
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I liked Baton Pass for two things: 1. Conserving SP on Joker. That's also what determined my party makeup for most dungeons. For example, Palace 4 has a lot of enemies weak to ice and wind, so I could conserve Joker's SP by having both Yusuke and Morgana to share knockdown duty. I could also knock down one enemy with Joker then pass the baton to one of them to continue the job and conserve SP for both. 2. Setting up hilarious random battle-sweeping combos in the late game. At least on Hard, All-Out Attacks sort of drop off in usefulness after a while. Eventually, a Baton Pass-boosted Deathbound, Triple Down, or Blazing Hell is going to do more damage than an All-Out Attack. So I'd knock down enemies with Joker, pass the baton to one of my sweepers, and have them let loose for a stupid amount of damage (that won't miss because the enemies are knocked down). I still want Baton Pass to be more of a core part of the battle system, either in an expanded Persona 5 or in Persona 6. Make bosses vulnerable to crits and have weaknesses so that setting up Baton Pass chains is actually key to doing enough damage quickly enough to take them down. What I'm envisioning is boss fights where you need to use Baton Pass to deal damage quickly to knock a boss out of a charge-up attack. Or maybe bosses with multiple actions per round split up their actions, not necessarily doing them both in a row like they do in Persona 5, and you can use a Baton Pass to sneak in a heal or buff between boss turns. Obviously the fights would need to be balanced around the increased damage/healing Baton Pass allows for, but that's not an impossible balance challenge and I think it would make boss fights more dynamic and interesting if there was a "squeeze in as many bonus turns as possible" element to them. Harrow fucked around with this message at 15:17 on May 2, 2017 |
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May 2, 2017 15:11
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Josuke Higashikata posted:The good thing about Baton Pass is that if you spread that duty between two party members, it'll work out more cost effective in the long run with SP adhesives. The other good thing about Baton Pass is that it boosts AOA damage too
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May 2, 2017 15:18
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imagine if Haru had several equally good as the one she has now AoA win screens with the same theme so she could butter a scone and it would say CREAMED or something
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May 2, 2017 15:21
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Josuke Higashikata posted:imagine if Haru had several equally good as the one she has now AoA win screens with the same theme It still wouldn't measure up to FIST OF JUSTIIICE! 
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May 2, 2017 15:24
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Makoto is One True Best Girl but even I can't deny that Haru has the best AOA screen (with Morgana in second)
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May 2, 2017 15:24
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Harrow posted:Makoto is One True Best Girl but even I can't deny that Haru has the best AOA screen (with Morgana in second) I will at least concede that Morgana's is second-best. Too late for apologies! 
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May 2, 2017 15:26
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On Merciless I use it most often to get a second attempt at landing afflictions. It would really be nice if someone other than Ann got any reliable afflictions.
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May 2, 2017 15:28
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Harrow posted:I still want Baton Pass to be more of a core part of the battle system, either in an expanded Persona 5 or in Persona 6. Make bosses vulnerable to crits and have weaknesses so that setting up Baton Pass chains is actually key to doing enough damage quickly enough to take them down.
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May 2, 2017 15:30
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Harrow posted:Makoto is One True Best Girl but even I can't deny that Haru has the best AOA screen (with Morgana in second) This is a tough race, because on the one hand you have badass tea-sipping with the most florid, passive-aggressive text 'Adieu'. But on the other hand, you have a cat sitting in a swivel chair smoking a cigar. Kawakami's always gonna be best girl for me because in a game about carefully managing your time, she takes this limitation and suplexes it through a table.
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May 2, 2017 15:34
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FractalSandwich posted:The numbers are the easy part. I'd be more worried about time. If you're taking more actions every round, for the same number of rounds, it'll make the fights last much longer. Yeah, that would be the hard part. I think what I'd want to aim for time-wise (as an armchair game designer who knows nothing at all  ) would be for boss fights to take roughly as much time as they do now provided that players make good, but not necessarily perfect, use of Baton Pass. What that would mean is that there'd be fewer boss turns compared to player turns, so the boss's turns need to count for even more than they do now. That would be the hardest part of balancing it correctly, I think.
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May 2, 2017 15:36
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Palace 3 had poorly paced safe rooms. Palace 5 had the barracks section, which dragged on for too long and gave you incorrect information for the last round of hints. Palace 7 would have been okay if they had come up with some different puzzles between letters instead of repeating the rat corridors puzzle four times.
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May 2, 2017 15:49
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Andrast posted:There was no point in any dungeon after the first one where I was even close to running out of SP. I didn't get the accessories until dungeon 3, but same. That's not really saying much because I just shifted my entire gameplan to revolve around the regen and usually walked out with full HP/SP when the grinding stopped being lucrative. Going from the start to the treasure and casting maybe 20 non-healing spells felt lame. Don't have any solution to that. Trying to make dungeons/palaces/whatever revolve around SP conservation will always lead to the same thing. FractalSandwich posted:The numbers are the easy part. I'd be more worried about time. If you're taking more actions every round, for the same number of rounds, it'll make the fights last much longer. I'd be more worried about boss fights where you either get a crit or you die and a couple dozen turns down the track you're screwed because Lucky Punch wasn't lucky. Elizabeth is not something I want to repeat.
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May 2, 2017 15:50
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I liked the mouse puzzles. They were smooth and never had me running around in circles for half an hour like the airlock puzzle did. They sort of reminded me of something you'd see in Strange Journey (in execution).
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May 2, 2017 15:54
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The airlock puzzles were stupidly easy though?
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May 2, 2017 16:01
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They also aren't puzzles.
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May 2, 2017 16:08
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Baton Passes rule especially if you have a lot of attack items on hand like I had no idea why people were complaining about the last miniboss Michael, every turn was just Joker > Baton Pass to whoever > Attack Item >Baton Pass to Ryuji > 1800 damage critical > AOA (which also gets boosted by Baton Pass), fight over
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May 2, 2017 16:17
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Goddamn, this thread moves fast. Well, anyway after starting over and blatantly abusing foreknowledge I was able to beat the first palace in Hard mode at level 11. Now you too may be saved thanks to the RobbingHoods assistance!  So I gather I have time to kill until the next mission starts, and with all social stats at level 2 I wanted to work on ranking up Confidants. Hierophant is taking a while though even with a matching Persona. Can you offer gifts to speed the process up, or are there specific prompts for them? (The reason I ask is that they're are expensive as hell, and I don't want to drop the money if it will go to waste.)
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May 2, 2017 16:33
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W.T. Fits posted:Palace 3 had poorly paced safe rooms. My favorite safe room is the one you can't reach until you defeat the mini boss. And there's another safe room on the other side of the door the mini boss was guarding. How do I ask Kawakami to do stuff for me? Do I have to go to the activity I want to do and then I get a bonus option?
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May 2, 2017 16:35
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DalaranJ posted:How do I ask Kawakami to do stuff for me? Do I have to go to the activity I want to do and then I get a bonus option? You basically go start the event (load the laundry machine or whatever) and Morgana will ask if you want to call Kawakimi to do it for you.
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May 2, 2017 16:38
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DalaranJ posted:My favorite safe room is the one you can't reach until you defeat the mini boss. And there's another safe room on the other side of the door the mini boss was guarding. Yes. Try to make coffee/curry or do laundry and the option will come up to call her
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May 2, 2017 16:38
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DalaranJ posted:My favorite safe room is the one you can't reach until you defeat the mini boss. And there's another safe room on the other side of the door the mini boss was guarding. Yap. For example slam clothes into laundry machine then the option appears. However you need to use the payphone in Leblanc's to get her rank 10 ability to give you an old fashioned after an evening of palaces / mementos. CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK fucked around with this message at 16:39 on May 2, 2017 |
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May 2, 2017 16:36
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Instant Grat posted:The airlock puzzles were stupidly easy though? Pff, I believe you'll find the things you had trouble with were easy. CharlestheHammer posted:They also aren't puzzles. I do agree it wasn't a puzzle, it was just obtuse.
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May 2, 2017 16:45
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Only two parts of the airlock section required doing much other than just going through the next airlock. In the first section, there's a switch that you could reasonably not know affects a different type of airlock than the one you've been working with so far (that you need to hit to open the way to the next section). In the second section, there's a part in the northeast where you have to go through the airlocks in the right order to get through (hitting a switch at the right time along the way). I didn't find them too difficult, though I can see how that first one is kind of obtuse (because before you run into that switch at a dead end, you haven't really been primed for the existence of two types of airlocks controlled by two different types of switches).
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May 2, 2017 16:49
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I created Baal, game is definitely too easy now. I'm going to turn him into a gun though.
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May 2, 2017 16:59
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JackDarko posted:I created Baal, game is definitely too easy now. I'm going to turn him into a gun though. Make Michael and turn him into a gun as well, in order to turn Makoto into the ultimate swiss-army knife of a party member.
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May 2, 2017 17:02
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Instant Grat posted:Make Michael and turn him into a gun as well, in order to turn Makoto into the ultimate swiss-army knife of a party member. Michael is kind of a pain to make money wise but I'll do it. I turned Black Frost into a dope whip as well.
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May 2, 2017 17:33
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Michael is absolutely worth the cash because his gun is a solid +10 to all of Makoto's stats.
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May 2, 2017 17:39
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I think the second safe room in Palace 3 should have been a room or so sooner, but other than that the number is fine. You're constantly looping back and opening shortcuts right back to a safe room or the entrance. The second one is really dumb though.
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May 2, 2017 17:41
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