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Pawl posted:We have seen the stats for a handful of weapons, maybe hold off on assumptions for a little bit longer I didn't make any assumptions, I'm expressing concerns. I said specifically that I hope there are weapons with higher numbers of hits, not that there will not be.
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May 10, 2017 20:51
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chutche2 posted:I didn't make any assumptions, I'm expressing concerns. I said specifically that I hope there are weapons with higher numbers of hits, not that there will not be. Dude you are kind of being the king of assumptions in this thread. Your heavy bolters make d3 assumptions.
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May 10, 2017 20:52
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Whats a cupola assumptions between hams?
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May 10, 2017 20:55
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TKIY posted:Dude you are kind of being the king of assumptions in this thread. Your heavy bolters make d3 assumptions. As others have pointed out before me, I'm posting about how it's an issue that the battle cannon looks to be severely under-performing in an anti-infantry role compared to what it has done in the past, and how this could be a problem for other blast weapons and so I hope that the more specialized anti-horde ones like the basilisks have more than d6 shots. I also dislike how blast weapons are more BS reliant now.
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May 10, 2017 20:56
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Safety Factor posted:I actually think they might have hosed up on that one. Combi-weapons are going to have to go waaaaaaaaay up in points. I mean, a combi-plasma is basically just going to be a plasma gun with an attached bolter. Just play narrative it solves the problem and you keep your toys. Safety Factor posted:Combi-bolters are just twin-linked bolters. There'd be no minus. Oh look I have to reply to you twice in a row, gently caress you. It's in the name, combi-bolter. Getting to fire two bolters at once is a massive advantage even at -1 to hit so hopefully they will be priced accordingly otherwise the meta will be way skewed towards combi-bolters on everything that can take them. God you're hosed in 30K against IF combi-bolter vets.
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May 10, 2017 20:56
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Safety Factor posted:You doofuses. Safety Factor posted:
Lord_Hambrose posted:Wounds spilling over would really only make sense for Tyranids... Hamshot posted:Your pedantic opinion didn't warrant anything greater. Safety Factor posted:Combi-bolters are twin-linked under the current ruleset. We are extrapolating off of that instead of assuming that they will change to work like combi-weapons based simply off of their name. It makes more sense. Oh great it's the rear end in a top hat 30k crew come to gently caress up another thread with their PM co-ordinated posting, death thread wasn't enough? COMBI BOLTER not "twin-linked bolter". No wonder you guys couldn't figure out how to play 40k and had to move to 30k.
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May 10, 2017 20:57
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ijyt posted:Oh great it's the rear end in a top hat 30k crew come to gently caress up another thread with their PM co-ordinated posting, death thread wasn't enough? Ban yourself.
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May 10, 2017 20:59
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ijyt posted:Oh great it's the rear end in a top hat 30k crew come to gently caress up another thread with their PM co-ordinated posting, death thread wasn't enough? Have you seen a datasheet that says they're still named combi-bolters and not named twin-linked bolters?
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May 10, 2017 20:59
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chutche2 posted:Have you seen a datasheet that says they're still named combi-bolters and not named twin-linked bolters? et tu, cupolus
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May 10, 2017 21:00
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Crazy Ferret posted:Give me the rumble and the thunder. Give me the guns, guns, guns. Oshit u rite I used to mix and match turret/sponson on Baals, but this makes the Assault Cannon/Heavy Bolter combo loving vicious.
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May 10, 2017 21:02
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I think they missed a good opportunity with the battlecannon to crib from a good game (Kings of War) and have it a single roll to hit, which causes D6 hits when it does so (or even D6 +1 or +2, it was a big blast!) Instead making it D6 shots just means a bunch of extra dice rolling for the same effect (on average) and makes it pretty much the same as the other big guns that have random numbers of shots (Exorcists, Gigashoota, etc.).
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May 10, 2017 21:11
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Zark the Damned posted:I think they missed a good opportunity with the battlecannon to crib from a good game (Kings of War) and have it a single roll to hit, which causes D6 hits when it does so (or even D6 +1 or +2, it was a big blast!) At the same time, it's weird for the battle cannon shot to just disappear entirely half the time doing nothing. That would still probably be better than this mess though.
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May 10, 2017 21:12
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chutche2 posted:I also dislike how blast weapons are more BS reliant now. Although I always did believe that battlecannon rules never really matched the fluff. They were always underwhelming against tanks, MCs and TEQs which is precisely the kind of things they should have always been killing. Now they're going to be way more reliable against single large targets and heavy infantry, I reckon that expecting them to be cost effective against light infantry too is asking a bit much.
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May 10, 2017 21:14
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chutche2 posted:At the same time, it's weird for the battle cannon shot to just disappear entirely half the time doing nothing. That would still probably be better than this mess though. I dunno, I'm fairly used to having 2/3 of my blast weapons scatter into no-mans land and hit nothing, so no real change for me 
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May 10, 2017 21:14
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ijyt posted:Oh great it's the rear end in a top hat 30k crew come to gently caress up another thread with their PM co-ordinated posting, death thread wasn't enough? 
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May 10, 2017 21:15
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May 10, 2017 21:15
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The NFC West continues to be the best division in football 
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May 10, 2017 21:17
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xtothez posted:I'd argue that they're less reliant now. With multiple hits you have a fair chance of something landing, while blasts tended to be all-or-nothing most of the time. Sure, that's fair. Basilisks have nearly identical stats to a battle cannon in 7th though and are fluffed as decimating hordes of infantry, so it needs to have a significantly different statline from a battle cannon in 8th to accomplish that. I feel like in general things are getting less deadly against single wound infantry. Weapons are now needing higher numbers to wound them, and they'll get saves much more often. Terminator armor and power armor is a bit less protective against lighter weapons now with heavy bolters giving them -1 armor, but more protective against heavier weapons. AP3 stuff that shredded power armor before is now only dropping them to a 5+ save. And guys in carapace are going to see a big survivability boost over last edition too if it's still 4+. chutche2 fucked around with this message at 21:24 on May 10, 2017 |
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May 10, 2017 21:17
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ijyt posted:et tu, cupolus These are trying times. The ban has left him angry and deformed. But I assure you; the shitposting has never been stronger. He may have lost his furry tracer avatar, but a new, sexier one arises.
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May 10, 2017 21:26
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greetings friend
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May 10, 2017 21:28
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BULBASAUR posted:I ran the math on the battlecannon and it's comical. With BS4 you get 2 wounds. BS3 you get 1.5 wounds. Yeah I checked that out, too. Useless vs. infantry, marginal vs. big targets. Good thing I have 10 of these things lying around...
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May 10, 2017 21:41
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I've been waiting 5 editions for twin linked weapons to go back to being two weapons worth of firepower again 
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May 10, 2017 21:52
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The Sex Cannon posted:Yeah I checked that out, too. Useless vs. infantry, marginal vs. big targets. Good thing I have 10 of these things lying around... I don't think it's marginal against big targets. It's better than a lascannon in a lot of situations.
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May 10, 2017 21:55
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I think that it's also important to recognize that while 'average' is a good baseline for performance, any deviation from that average can (and will, eventually) happen. Battle Cannons pay a little extra for the opportunity to really gently caress a lot of things up at once that a Lascannon will never have even if it's superior in terms of single shot power, or even average unsaved wounds per attack.
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May 10, 2017 21:57
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TheChirurgeon posted:I don't think it's marginal against big targets. It's better than a lascannon in a lot of situations. Yeah, maybe. It's not like I'm gonna stop using them or anything. They'll still be hard as hell to kill.
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May 10, 2017 21:59
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quote:Combi-weapons This is kinda cool, and I've always thought one-shot weapons were kinda dumb as hell, but firing your combi-weapons both weapons at the same time seems like an awful lot of loving rolling just to resolve a single attack.
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May 10, 2017 22:03
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The Sex Cannon posted:Yeah, maybe. It's not like I'm gonna stop using them or anything. They'll still be hard as hell to kill. The way I see it, this is less a nerf and more a change of role for the gun. It's fine for the main gun on a MBT to not be great for picking off infantry Also the game's weakest armies were also the horde armies, so I'm not so upset about making guns that previously removed whole squads a little less good at doing that
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May 10, 2017 22:05
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Zaphod42 posted:This is kinda cool, and I've always thought one-shot weapons were kinda dumb as hell, but firing your combi-weapons both weapons at the same time seems like an awful lot of loving rolling just to resolve a single attack. Definitely need two different colors/size of dice to resolve those guns quickly. Doing that, though, shouldn't slow things down too much, and the rate at which models are getting removed (seriously) should speed things back up to match.
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May 10, 2017 22:07
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Strobe posted:Definitely need two different colors/size of dice to resolve those guns quickly. Doing that, though, shouldn't slow things down too much, and the rate at which models are getting removed (seriously) should speed things back up to match. Even with different colors, keeping track of which dice have which toughness and which roll is needed and how much damage. It doesn't help that a combi-melta has you doing special rules for damage on half range too. At this point I'd rather they just say "combi weapons have infinite ammo but can only fire one or the other" and just get rid of combi-bolters and replace them all with storm bolter equivalents. But no biggie. Edit: I mean gently caress, think about it. If you have 10 guys at half range with combi-flamers, you fire 10 bolter shots AND 10 flamer shots, and then if more than one flamer shot lands you need to roll 2d6 and take the lowest for wound...while keeping pairs of 2d6 seperate meaning that's an additional roll per wound. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 22:15 on May 10, 2017 |
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May 10, 2017 22:13
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Zaphod42 posted:Even with different colors, keeping track of which dice have which toughness and which roll is needed and how much damage. It doesn't help that a combi-melta has you doing special rules for damage on half range too. Do you struggle this much with multiple weapons in a squad now Putting aside the "lol when are you even going to have 10 combi flamers" bit, flamers don't work that way. You're thinking meltas, which won't be as bad as all that because you still have to roll to hit and to wound before you do the "highest of 2d6" wound count
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May 10, 2017 22:19
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Lemun Russes being good against tanks and okay against troops is cool and good. Combi-bolters are combi-weapons. Slaanesh without the endless dicks and tits is good. Orks is best.
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May 10, 2017 22:19
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8th edition is so streamlined you need multiple different colored dice to resolve a shooting attack
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May 10, 2017 22:19
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BULBASAUR posted:8th edition is so streamlined you need multiple different colored dice to resolve a shooting attack If 40k is too much, might I suggest a much simpler game? Warpath from Mantic perhaps? 
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May 10, 2017 22:25
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As a potential Necron player in 8th I wonder if Gauss weapons will get something cool, since the "wound on 6s regardless of toughness" rule is meaningless because every weapon can do that now, and the ability to do glancing hits on 6s obviously doesn't matter anymore.
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May 10, 2017 22:26
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Jesus, you guys weren't kidding bout finecast being poo poo. I figured it would just be softer, inferior resin, possibly with a few air bubbles. No air bubbles on my deathleaper or on shadowsun, but holy poo poo these gates are horrible. They are loving everywhere and in very awkward places.
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May 10, 2017 22:27
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TheChirurgeon posted:Do you struggle this much with multiple weapons in a squad now TBH I wasn't going to ever use Combi-weapons at all until now, and now 10 Combi-flamers actually sounds like a loving hilarious Sternguard Squad. Deep-strike somewhere and just gently caress up an entire half-dozen squads of orks or nids simultaneously.
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May 10, 2017 22:28
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Strobe posted:TBH I wasn't going to ever use Combi-weapons at all until now, and now 10 Combi-flamers actually sounds like a loving hilarious Sternguard Squad. Deep-strike somewhere and just gently caress up an entire half-dozen squads of orks or nids simultaneously. Yeah, I think Combi-flamers are going to be the new hotness since the hits are free BULBASAUR posted:8th edition is so streamlined you need multiple different colored dice to resolve a shooting attack Bulbasaur: Still mad about templates
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May 10, 2017 22:32
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Finecast is the physical manifestation of the malign incompetence which emanates from Tom Kirby like stink from balls.
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May 10, 2017 22:32
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jadebullet posted:Jesus, you guys weren't kidding bout finecast being poo poo. I figured it would just be softer, inferior resin, possibly with a few air bubbles. No air bubbles on my deathleaper or on shadowsun, but holy poo poo these gates are horrible. They are loving everywhere and in very awkward places. Some are fine but some are real real bad. It's especially bad on one of the necron characters I got. He has like a small stringy tail part. It comes on the sprue/from the mold bent such that it would clip through the base by at least a quarter of an inch. When it was metal, you could just bend it, but when it's poo poo resin, I tried getting it hot and flexing it and it just bent back after a while so I just snapped the loving thing (which is real easy, it's like both brittle and flexible at the same time) and then reglued it the right way instead.
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May 10, 2017 22:34
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BULBASAUR posted:8th edition is so streamlined you need multiple different colored dice to resolve a shooting attack its streamlined in GW terms, not like, normal people terms ok
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May 10, 2017 22:37
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