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Charliegrs posted:If you're completely mental, but have never been diagnosed and grab a gun from your parents/roommates/friends closet or hell even just go buy one and then go shoot up a school wouldn't the most restrictive laws keeping the mentally unstable from buying guns not do a drat thing about that?
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May 26, 2017 09:23
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Charliegrs posted:I wonder how Trump will react to the next school shooting? By releasing a press kit that consists of his electoral map?
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May 26, 2017 09:26
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LITERALLY MY FETISH posted:Saying we need to address the societal issues that encourage mass shootings is essentially grouping up all of the problems we're already trying to fix, like income inequality, systemic racism, sexism, etc, and saying "If we can't fix ALL of these problems there's no way to stop this" and that's a really bad way to think about solving the problem. Normalizing mental health care to the point that everyone can see someone for mental health like they see their primary care physician, and thinking about them asking uncomfortable questions the same way we think about bleeding gums at the dentist (a necessary evil and just a fact of life) would do tremendous amounts of good. Normalizing mental health care in that fashion and getting society to the point where we think of mental illness like gum disease is about as big of a job as fixing all of society's other issues. The reality is that there isn't a way to stop it completely, any more than there's any way to stop, say, terrorism from ever happening. All we can do is push for things that will reduce it as much as possible without giving up all of our freedom and privacy to do so. Where exactly that line lies is something we all have to figure out (and good luck on that one). But as I said, the number of legitimately mentally ill people who decide to go murder a bunch of other people is pretty drat small, insofar as we know. Spree killer isn't a diagnosis anymore than terrorist is. There are things that lead someone to make those decisions, and while mental illness can be a factor, it's rarely the leading cause. I mean, I know I've said this about three times now, but statistically mentally ill people are more likely to be hurt or killed by a significant order of magnitude than they are to be the ones perpetrating the violence. A not insignificant factor in that is this idea that you must be mentally ill to commit these kinds of acts, therefore being mentally ill is dangerous and needs to be forcefully protected against.
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May 26, 2017 09:27
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LITERALLY MY FETISH posted:You are. Take a break from politics like that one goon who's gonna have a bbq with friends this weekend. I know I am. This is a good call. I'm going to do that.
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May 26, 2017 09:29
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I guess Americans, in the absence of unifying existential threat, just turn on each other. It seems like that's what's going on right now. The current threats (fundamentalist terror, North Korea, Russia) are inadequate and seem to cause division in and of themselves
Lightning Lord fucked around with this message at 09:32 on May 26, 2017 |
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May 26, 2017 09:29
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RottenK posted:first the brokebrains crying about quist, now gun chat Who, the reporter guy?
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May 26, 2017 09:30
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SocketWrench posted:It certainly doesn't help when X event takes place and instantly a democrat president is on stage with a crowd of kids and yammering about gun control. Whether he does something or not, he just made it an issue that once again the nutters are going to feed on. Gonna assume you're talking about Obama, whose main message about gun control was "hey, let's do something about all these people killing kids, maybe?" and then a big fat nothing coming of it. Most of the pro gun control people watching those speeches were also disappointed because he wasn't pushing for more gun control during them. It's almost like no matter what a democrat actually says or does, republican voters that get their news filtered via fox news don't actually have a loving idea what the democrat president actually yammers on about because they don't loving listen to him ever. How you arrive at the conclusion "Well he just needs to talk to them" when they have never and will never actually listen to him is beyond me. VitalSigns posted:Nah I think Republican politicians actually care more about Russia than their voters do, because Republican politicians like swinging America's military dick around everywhere and don't want a rival gaining influence. Also they're mostly old chickenhawks who can only get hard when they're ordering young kids off to die somewhere in Asia. Well, sure, if we wanna just make poo poo up. Evidence would suggest, though, that the only reason republican politicians care about russia is because they believe their constituents care about russia, and they'd know better than you, wouldn't they? The fact that the Seth Rich story is coming back up and keeps getting parroted tells me that their voters would care about russia if they weren't getting flooded with bullshit conspiracy theory poo poo as a hail mary to keep them complacent. I have zero doubts in my mind that Paul Ryan would absolutely loving love for us to be as much like Russia as possible, and I doubt many of them are far off of that. I do agree that appealing to republican voters is weird, because we really shouldn't have to. I just don't agree at all with the reasoning that got you there. kartikeya posted:Normalizing mental health care in that fashion and getting society to the point where we think of mental illness like gum disease is about as big of a job as fixing all of society's other issues. The reality is that there isn't a way to stop it completely, any more than there's any way to stop, say, terrorism from ever happening. All we can do is push for things that will reduce it as much as possible without giving up all of our freedom and privacy to do so. Where exactly that line lies is something we all have to figure out (and good luck on that one). You're not wrong, but that narrative about mental health is already moving in that direction. It's not going to happen overnight, and it won't happen without a lot of work, but it's still a good thing to work towards, and these gigantic problems aren't things that get solved with a flip of a switch. They get solved through decades of activism, education, and discussion.
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May 26, 2017 09:39
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Today in gun chat news I went to look at some comic books and animes and found out there was a guy who was stopped by police at the door with 3 handguns and a shotgun. And I didn't find the comics I wanted.
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May 26, 2017 09:46
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Lightning Lord posted:I guess Americans, in the absence of unifying existential threat, just turn on each other. It seems like that's what's going on right now. The current threats (fundamentalist terror, North Korea, Russia) are inadequate and seem to cause division in and of themselves Institutional war on citizens was indeed probably worse in the 50s-80s, but at least a Democrat and a Republican could agree that the Soviet Union was a problem that needed to be solved and work together on it, even if they had disagreement over policy, instead of regarding each other as a threat. I'm not saying "Civil War Tomorrow!" but the two major political parties and people who identify with them regarding each other as actual enemies instead of just political rivals? Definitely not sustainable. It isn't to the point where there's major politically driven violence yet but I could see it get that way. Of course, the 24 hour news cycle could definitely be making things seem worse than they are, when every minor campus scuffle becomes national news. And the decorum of the past probably made it seem better too. William F. Buckley just put an intellectual veneer on it. He'd probably be calling people cucks if he was around today. Push El Burrito posted:Today in gun chat news I went to look at some comic books and animes and found out there was a guy who was stopped by police at the door with 3 handguns and a shotgun. And I didn't find the comics I wanted. Like at a comic shop? A convention? Lightning Lord fucked around with this message at 09:55 on May 26, 2017 |
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May 26, 2017 09:52
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LITERALLY MY FETISH posted:Gonna assume you're talking about Obama, whose main message about gun control was "hey, let's do something about all these people killing kids, maybe?" and then a big fat nothing coming of it. Most of the pro gun control people watching those speeches were also disappointed because he wasn't pushing for more gun control during them. It's almost like no matter what a democrat actually says or does, republican voters that get their news filtered via fox news don't actually have a loving idea what the democrat president actually yammers on about because they don't loving listen to him ever. How you arrive at the conclusion "Well he just needs to talk to them" when they have never and will never actually listen to him is beyond me. You do know he couldn't do anything because of the Republican controlled house and Senate right?
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May 26, 2017 09:52
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Lightning Lord posted:Like at a comic shop? A convention? https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2017/05/26/man-4-guns-knives-arrested-phoenix-comicon/347782001/
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May 26, 2017 10:00
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Charliegrs posted:You do know he couldn't do anything because of the Republican controlled house and Senate right? gently caress you and your meal mouthed third way horseshit. Stop catering to Republican discourse like its a rational debate. These are people who stopped drinking water when Obama said it was a good idea. They will never believe that Democrats don't want to grab their guns. And if we are going to be persecuted for wanting to stop gun violence, maybe we could actually try to enact real laws to do that?? Ban every handgun and semiautomatic rifle. Death to centrism.
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May 26, 2017 10:22
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Superrodan posted:https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2017/05/26/man-4-guns-knives-arrested-phoenix-comicon/347782001/ Im the sonic that walks past in the background
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May 26, 2017 10:28
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VitalSigns posted:Republicans would not care if Trump was caught on camera taking money from Russia. Russia is the ideal model of what they want America to be: a backwards theocratic dictatorship with no dissent or criticism allowed, where journalists are murdered for expressing liberal opinions or exposing the crimes of the regime, pogroms against minorities are the order of the day, and a small cabal of ultrarich oligarchs rule over the despairing, hopeless, drug-addicted masses, and every single Republican voter knows he will be one of the oligarchs if the DC liberals weren't keeping him down. What's great is being asked to treat Republicans with the same dignity and respect we never receive from them. Republicans are people who openly support loving themselves over as long as it also catches some LIEberals in the cross fire. They actively discriminate against minorities and the LGBTQ community, while openly supporting people who would otherwise fit in with those groups if not for their insane politics. They are united in spite for spite's sake, and their target is anyone remotely left of Hannity. I don't have any hope reconciliation in the near future. Republicans are the enemy, and they shouldn't be treated as anything but.
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May 26, 2017 10:45
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Unoriginal Name posted:gently caress you and your meal mouthed third way horseshit. Stop catering to Republican discourse like its a rational debate. These are people who stopped drinking water when Obama said it was a good idea. They will never believe that Democrats don't want to grab their guns. No, seriously. The Republican's actually controlled the apparatuses necessary to do that at the time. Obama had not nearly as much power to push things through as people give him credit for. That we got what we got is a minor miracle in of itself. Especially when you factor in political vultures like Lieberman and every other blue dog congressman and senator out there.
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May 26, 2017 10:54
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Spiffster posted:Sorry if I'm a bit Real advice? Find a way to move abroad. Medical costs will, at one point or another, bankrupt your family. I'm trying to help my parents with preexisting conditions do the same thing I'm doing. It's very bleak in America for the foreseeable future. This country deserves brain drain.
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May 26, 2017 10:55
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but I have a lot of poo poo going on in my life right now... financial woes, worrying about what this means for my already lovely health insurance, newborn girls future is looking grimmer by the second. I don't give a drat about my future as much as I do hers and boy howdy seeing all this play out right when she was born is utterly crushing any optimism I had left. Really need something good
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Push El Burrito posted:Today in gun chat news I went to look at some comic books and animes and found out there was a guy who was stopped by police at the door with 3 handguns and a shotgun. And I didn't find the comics I wanted. I hope you protested at the infringement on his rights
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May 26, 2017 11:02
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Teriyaki Koinku posted:Real advice? Find a way to move abroad. Medical costs will, at one point or another, bankrupt your family. The problem is that America is so wealthy, militarily strong and exports it's culture that I'm concerned this kind of thing is going to spread globally. Yeah, for now most international conservatives are fine with their single payer systems, even if they mess with them in various ways. What happens if they decide otherwise? Lightning Lord fucked around with this message at 11:14 on May 26, 2017 |
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May 26, 2017 11:10
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Lightning Lord posted:The problem is that America is so wealthy, militarily strong and exports it's culture that I'm concerned this kind of thing is going to spread globally. Yeah, for now most international conservatives are fine with their single payer systems, even if they mess with them in various ways. What happens when they decide otherwise? No they're not fine with them. Conservatives all over are trying to dismantle them. Look at the UK, look at Australia. The thing holding them back is that it's still hideously unpopular to come out and say they're doings it so instead they chip away at it in an effort to compromise the services provided, with the idea that eventually either the public is amenable to getting rid of it or it's such a shell of itself that you don't need to bother.
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May 26, 2017 11:14
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Solemn Sloth posted:No they're not fine with them. Conservatives all over are trying to dismantle them. Look at the UK, look at Australia. The thing holding them back is that it's still hideously unpopular to come out and say they're doings it so instead they chip away at it in an effort to compromise the services provided, with the idea that eventually either the public is amenable to getting rid of it or it's such a shell of itself that you don't need to bother. That's what I mean. What happens when they just go gently caress it and abort them? Then nowhere will be safe.
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May 26, 2017 11:24
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Kilroy posted:It's more like we're all old as poo poo and not many new people register anymore. You've got it sorta backward. Lowtax should bring back WDMA to get us some fresh blood.
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May 26, 2017 11:28
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kartikeya posted:A not insignificant factor in that is this idea that you must be mentally ill to commit these kinds of acts What societal function does a definition of "mental illness" that doesn't include "is capable of methodically slaying dozens of strangers without being deterred by fear, empathy, or a self-preservation instinct" even serve? The issue of gun control is more complicated than yelling "mental health" and throwing up your hands, but dang that implies some pretty dark poo poo about the ultimate purpose and utility of psychology and psychiatric medicine to me.
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May 26, 2017 11:38
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I have never met someone that thinks a person on a terrorist watch list, or someone with mental disorders on medicaid needs to be able to buy a gun. They always just shrug and say "of course not." Probably because they assume I'm a gun shooting good old boy like the rest of them. The second someone like Hillary Clinton says it, they don't believe it and think it's just the first step to taking away their guns. We need a politician like Jason Kander to say it, or a plains state democrat that doesn't look like Mike Dukakis in a tank when they hold a rifle. People do things just for politics all the time; they go to church, they go to random community poo poo they hate, they worship the military, etc. It's not too much to ask for politicians on the left to learn how to clean and shoot a rifle.
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May 26, 2017 11:43
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Lightning Lord posted:The problem is that America is so wealthy, militarily strong and exports it's culture that I'm concerned this kind of thing is going to spread globally. Yeah, for now most international conservatives are fine with their single payer systems, even if they mess with them in various ways. What happens if they decide otherwise? The Trump clownshow is doing a decent job of inoculating the rest of the world against American policies for now at least
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May 26, 2017 11:45
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breaking: 24 coptic christians just got gunned down in egypt
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May 26, 2017 11:48
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Unoriginal Name posted:gently caress you and your meal mouthed third way horseshit. Stop catering to Republican discourse like its a rational debate. These are people who stopped drinking water when Obama said it was a good idea. They will never believe that Democrats don't want to grab their guns. Lol wtf. You would think with turn towards fascism the US has taken that Dems would see the wisdom of the second amendment. Why do you think it was put in the Constitution to begin with?
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May 26, 2017 11:53
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Charliegrs posted:Lol wtf. You would think with turn towards fascism the US has taken that Dems would see the wisdom of the second amendment. Why do you think it was put in the Constitution to begin with? I wonder what would happen these days if Democrats/liberals started en masse being explicitly pro 2nd amendment for this reason? Remember, some of the earliest modern gun control laws were enacted because of the Black Panthers.
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May 26, 2017 12:08
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FizFashizzle posted:breaking: 24 coptic christians just got gunned down in egypt Great, can't wait to see how this will play out with our toddler in chief.
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May 26, 2017 12:10
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It's depressing that the worst people in America keep getting elevated. More power, more acclaim, more reinforcement for hate and violence. Until they start going to prison it won't stop. You can talk about moral victories, investigations, how the right wing is nervous but it means nothing without results. Much of the country is no longer interested in the principles of Democracy. They want hate and violence and the right will keep giving it to them no matter how bad it looks on TV. Because it's working.
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May 26, 2017 12:12
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Dick Trauma posted:It's depressing that the worst people in America keep getting elevated. More power, more acclaim, more reinforcement for hate and violence. Until they start going to prison it won't stop. You can talk about moral victories, investigations, how the right wing is nervous but it means nothing without results. The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.
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May 26, 2017 12:15
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Lightning Lord posted:I wonder what would happen these days if Democrats/liberals started en masse being explicitly pro 2nd amendment for this reason? Remember, some of the earliest modern gun control laws were enacted because of the Black Panthers. They'd be attacked in the media for being typical left wing radicals.
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May 26, 2017 12:15
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Charliegrs posted:Lol wtf. You would think with turn towards fascism the US has taken that Dems would see the wisdom of the second amendment. Why do you think it was put in the Constitution to begin with? Definitely not because of an ideology that didn't exist for another 150 years
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May 26, 2017 12:19
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Can someone please explain to me how every single US sheriff is some right wing nutjob. Do you guys vote for sheriffs the same way you vote for basically every other government position?
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May 26, 2017 12:22
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Dick Trauma posted:It's depressing that the worst people in America keep getting elevated. More power, more acclaim, more reinforcement for hate and violence. Until they start going to prison it won't stop. You can talk about moral victories, investigations, how the right wing is nervous but it means nothing without results. Except most of the country isn't interested in it. Trump lost the popular vote and there's been a slew of people that keep discovering that voting on party lines for people that are abhorrent does in fact mean that they will suffer. A big part of the problem is the tribalism mentality some people get when it comes to voting. People that vote Republican because Trump ran as a Republican and thought he and the other politicians in the party weren't going to do all the horrible poo poo they promised are kinda dim. The other part is gerrymandering and the electoral college giving skewed priority to areas of the country.
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May 26, 2017 12:22
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http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/05/montana-nbc-affiliate-refused-to-cover-gianforte-body-slam.html Hey, does anyone wonder if Sinclair is going to ruin democracy? Not much effect in just Montana, but when they run 70% of local news programs and decide that Donald Trump murdering a black baby on live TV isn't newsworthy, guess what
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May 26, 2017 12:22
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Apoplexy posted:http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/05/montana-nbc-affiliate-refused-to-cover-gianforte-body-slam.html "going to"?
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May 26, 2017 12:24
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Furnaceface posted:Can someone please explain to me how every single US sheriff is some right wing nutjob. Do you guys vote for sheriffs the same way you vote for basically every other government position? Sheriffs are often elected, yeah. The other part is that law enforcement positions tend to attract power tripping authoritarians to begin with.
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May 26, 2017 12:29
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WeAreTheRomans posted:"going to"? Well, more like 'Is Sinclair going to put yet another nail into the coffin that is Democracy, now decaying at an alarming pace 6 months after the fact?'
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May 26, 2017 12:30
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Furnaceface posted:Can someone please explain to me how every single US sheriff is some right wing nutjob. Do you guys vote for sheriffs the same way you vote for basically every other government position? Yes. My sheriff is great though, fighting against the state and federal pressure to keep Austin a sanctuary city for immigrants 
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May 26, 2017 12:31
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There Bias Two posted:Sheriffs are often elected, yeah. The other part is that law enforcement positions tend to attract power tripping authoritarians to begin with. This seems like such a very very bad idea. Do you guys have to gently caress with your constitution to remedy this or has it just been tradition for so long that no one has bothered to try and change it?
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May 26, 2017 12:32
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