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YET ANOTHER FAG posted:Is this the thread for discussing payday 2, or just complaining about it? Not sure if I'm in the right place... Those aren't the same thing? 
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May 24, 2017 16:10
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if u don't like my heistin themed shitposts I don't even know what to tell u son
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May 24, 2017 16:13
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maswastaken posted:Hold up. The difference between Hard and Overkill is just the number of specials and body HP? What the hell, Jules? And the types of cops. Hard has blues, very hard has a mix of tans, greens, and more specials. It's a hefty jump between the two. But I've beaten this point into the ground already so...
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May 24, 2017 16:14
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But blues do more damage. Someone chasing after the ultimate Death Wish experience made their own Goonmod-compatible mutator called "Nothing But Blues" for that exact reason.
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May 24, 2017 17:09
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Drowning Rabbit posted:Well that is disappointing, since I recall back then they were teasing that it was already in. Discendo Vox posted:Like Coolguy says, there's a whole collection of very explicit references to it (and they've ramped up a bit), but nothing actually unlockable in the game. In practice we'll know if something gets added, because the methods people usually use to read the game files will likely stop working. Everyone's probably guessed this at one time or another, but the central foyer of the Big Bank with the descending staircase seems tailor-made for a secret area; there should be a Piece of Eden hidden there, maybe after going through an underground catacomb filled with traps.
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May 24, 2017 17:20
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Malek posted:And the types of cops. Hard has blues, very hard has a mix of tans, greens, and more specials. It's a hefty jump between the two. Functionally there are just two types of common cops now, light and heavy SWAT. Blue/yellow swat, green/tan FBI, Gensec elite/Gensec tan, etc. Light always has half the health of the heavy. Any appearance of other cop type outside their normal difficulty is a scripted spawn. The only real other wrinkle Overkill adds besides increasing body health is the tan armor on its heavy SWATs.
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May 24, 2017 18:45
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TheObserver posted:Everyone's probably guessed this at one time or another, but the central foyer of the Big Bank with the descending staircase seems tailor-made for a secret area; there should be a Piece of Eden hidden there, maybe after going through an underground catacomb filled with traps. A bunch of the maps with the most explicit secret references have suspicious voids where there was clearly more to the map at one point. Big Bank: the door you mention in the lobby. Diamond: the basement level was intended to extend all the way back under the room with the Diamond. There are still a bunch of unused/underused spaces in the basement area, such as the archives. Scarface: the area under Sosa's office. Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 19:12 on May 24, 2017 |
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May 24, 2017 19:00
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Just played another heist on Hard mode. It would seem that if the Long Guide is right about spawns, Hard mode cops are just super shy and don't want to be found.
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May 24, 2017 19:19
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maswastaken posted:Just played another heist on Hard mode. It would seem that if the Long Guide is right about spawns, Hard mode cops are just super shy and don't want to be found. The proportion of spawns is such that you get more shields on Hard, so I'd guess that phantom fades and stationary enemies would indeed be more common. edit: oh, and the number of police scales directly to number of players.
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May 24, 2017 19:46
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Discendo Vox posted:edit: oh, and teh number of police scales directly to number of players.
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May 24, 2017 19:47
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:I thought this got changed when they added bot bonuses? I'm not 100% clear on that, but even if so, having bot AI active only gives you 3/4 of the max spawns at most.
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May 24, 2017 19:52
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https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/27/giant-gold-coin-with-queens-head-stolen-from-berlin-museum Just a reminder that we need this as a heist.
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May 25, 2017 02:29
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I've been totally lost on the meta for quite a while. Is Muscle+ICTV still effective? It's what I've been running for pretty much the entire time I've played the game.
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May 26, 2017 16:26
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Coiler121 posted:I've been totally lost on the meta for quite a while. Is Muscle+ICTV still effective? It's what I've been running for pretty much the entire time I've played the game. Muscle+ICTV is still really effective, yes. It's my preferred One Down build, with the addition of Joker skills of course.
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May 26, 2017 16:51
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Discendo Vox posted:Muscle+ICTV is still really effective, yes. It's my preferred One Down build, with the addition of Joker skills of course. How about Anarchist ICTV by comparison? Or is it the fact that every bullet = almost all the armor?
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May 26, 2017 17:24
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Yardbomb posted:I'd buy a youtuber DLC if it was the best friends, there's even a not-Punisher armor for Matt already I would honestly love this.
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May 26, 2017 17:28
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Fuuka Ayase posted:https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/27/giant-gold-coin-with-queens-head-stolen-from-berlin-museum I like this detail in this article: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/28/key-kit-21st-century-gold-coin-museum-heist-rope-ladder-wheelbarrow-berlin-bode quote:Posters on the outside of the neo-baroque building currently advertise a show called Muse macht Moneten (roughly: “Be creative and get rich”), which may well have served as inspiration for Monday’s spectacular heist. I could see Bain saying that during the heist intro. "Alright guys let's get going. Be creative, and get rich!"
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May 26, 2017 17:34
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Malek posted:How about Anarchist ICTV by comparison? Or is it the fact that every bullet = almost all the armor?
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May 26, 2017 18:08
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maswastaken posted:One more than most people, four fewer than 50 Cent. 
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May 26, 2017 18:15
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maswastaken posted:Muscle + Ace Partners in Crime = enough health to take two bullets without dying. One more than most people, four fewer than 50 Cent. Also constant heal is reliable heal. Actually 7 fewer than 50 cent, who was shot 9 times. Are we using 50 Cents as a unit of measurement for bullet sponginess now? A bulldozer is worth 50² cents?
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May 26, 2017 19:15
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Isaacs Alter Ego posted:Actually 7 fewer than 50 cent, who was shot 9 times. this thread is the unsung hero of Games
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May 26, 2017 19:25
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Isaacs Alter Ego posted:Are we using 50 Cents as a unit of measurement for bullet sponginess now? A bulldozer is worth 50² cents? maswastaken fucked around with this message at 19:30 on May 26, 2017 |
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May 26, 2017 19:27
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Malek posted:How about Anarchist ICTV by comparison? Or is it the fact that every bullet = almost all the armor? I am no expert but I imagine on One Down if you wanted to go Anarchist you would want to be LBV, maybe HBV?
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May 26, 2017 19:29
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Suit Anarchist is the best. There's no point in tanking shots with Anarchist when you'll constantly have lost armor; rather you want the suit's insanely fast armor ticks, which happen often enough that you'll get a fresh tick of armor the moment your invincibility frames end. So Suit Anarchist or Armorer ICTV.
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May 26, 2017 20:43
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Wherever you think that Overkill or Jules is doing a dumb job with this game, remember that this is nothing compared to the failure that is Dead by Daylight. It's still OVERKILL and Jules though.
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May 27, 2017 03:59
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is Jules busy loving up DBD too? I played that and went for a steam return because that was nope-nope-nope almost immediately, but that was about gameplay/style, not balance
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May 27, 2017 04:51
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Crabtree posted:Wherever you think that Overkill or Jules is doing a dumb job with this game, remember that this is nothing compared to the failure that is Dead by Daylight. It's still OVERKILL and Jules though. Wait what's wring with Dead by Daylight? I was gonna play that with some friends at some point.
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May 27, 2017 05:03
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Crabtree posted:Wherever you think that Overkill or Jules is doing a dumb job with this game, remember that this is nothing compared to the failure that is Dead by Daylight. It's still OVERKILL and Jules though. Awesome, the printer is printing nice and steady again. Awesome, the printer is printing nice and steady again. Awesome the printer is printing nice and steady again.
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May 27, 2017 07:34
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xanthan posted:Wait what's wring with Dead by Daylight? I was gonna play that with some friends at some point. what would you prefer an answer on? the basic game mechanics, the community, or the additional game mechanic wrapped up in the progression system? i can give you detailed answers on any of them.
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May 27, 2017 07:38
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Coolguye posted:what would you prefer an answer on? the basic game mechanics, the community, or the additional game mechanic wrapped up in the progression system? i can give you detailed answers on any of them.
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May 27, 2017 11:15
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it's worse than the pd2 community lol I will answer your other questions when I am off my phone
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May 27, 2017 17:37
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Okay, so. DbD's basic gameplay loop looks like this: The survivors have 7 generators on a specific map, and they must repair 5 of them to power some exit gates. Generator repair is accomplished by holding a button the same way drill repair is done in PD2, but occasionally a 'skill check' will start. You must hit space bar while a marker is within a success zone. There is a very small high success zone that will get you bonus progress toward your repair. The skill checks basically happen on a clock face where the marker starts at 12. A 'hard' skill check will mean the skill check zone encompasses 3 o'clock to 4 o'clock, while an 'easy' skill check will be 10 o'clock to 11 o'clock. Even this far after release, streamers will still drop a hard skill check every now and then. Dropping a skill check sets back your repair and causes a ton of noise, which the killer can see visually on his screen - it makes the affected generator light up like a christmas tree. The killer must patrol these generators and attempt to find the survivors. Survivors are aided in their attempts to hide by the killer's 'terror radius', which makes a scary track play as the killer gets closer. It gives them warning so they can try to hide. However, it's pretty much inevitable that a killer will find a survivor. When he manages that, a chase starts. The killer is naturally about 10% faster than the survivors when they are in full sprint mode, and can perceive when survivors have been sprinting in an area because they leave scratches on the floors and nearby walls to approximate footprints. Survivors are expected to jump through windows (which they can do much faster than killers) and drop wooden pallets (which the killers must break) to delay and evade the killer. It should be noted that the killer is the host of a DbD game, and as such all latency toss-ups go to him. This is where the first major problem of the basic gameplay starts. Killers, being faster and so perceptive, have basically every advantage in a chase. Survivors do not stand a reasonable chance of juking the killer except through the killer's own fault. As such, a killer played at the skill ceiling versus a survivor played at the skill ceiling will catch and down the survivor 9 times out of 10. As you might be able to intuit from the very simple mechanics I've described above, skill ceilings are low in this game. This is not a theoretical notion. Anyway, after a killer hits a survivor twice, the survivor goes into a downed state. In this state, they can only crawl very slowly and hold a mouse button to attempt to recover. If they get 95% of the way to recovering fully, the recovery stops and they must find a teammate to heal them the rest of the way. While downed, a survivor bleeds copiously and moans in pain, so even if the killer becomes distracted and leaves, it is very easy to find a survivor again. A downed survivor can be picked up by the killer and taken to a meat hook, where they start a sacrifice state. A sacrifice state has 2 main stages; the first is a hanging stage, where a survivor can hold the mouse button to attempt to jump off the meat hook. This is about a 5% chance to succeed and on a failure it drastically speeds up progress to the second stage. The second stage is a struggle stage, where the survivor must hit the space bar every half second in order to not die instantly. Escape is impossible during this stage without help. At any moment, a teammate can come up and pull you off the hook, but, as you might imagine, the killer tends to watch hooks very closely after they're occupied. You escape a hook in a hurt state, so it only takes one hit to put you back into downed instead of the usual two. If you are hooked again, you immediately progress stages. If you progress stages in the struggle state, you simply die. Here we have the second major problem of the basic gameplay loop: Both the downed state and the hooked state are unimaginably boring and unrewarding in terms of progression points for the player being downed or hooked. This combines with the first basic gameplay problem to make being discovered by the killer a facepalm moment instead of a jumping excitement moment. You know what is coming. You know there is little to nothing you can do to stop it. Particularly at high level play you can reasonably presume that you will get at least some help from your teammates, but the chase sequence is going to start again very soon after you are helped unless the killer has wandered off very far. Which leads us back to the first major problem. Wasting the killer's time isn't even a victory; the killer only cares about time in terms of time spent fixing the generators. People helping you and trying to (mostly unsuccessfully) troll the killer is time spent NOT fixing the generators. The devs have recently doubled down on this formula by giving the killer a 'bloodlust' mechanic that makes them EVEN FASTER the longer a chase goes on, because long chases are 'too overpowered'. I will sum up this entire thing by relating an anecdote: Since the second week of release, I have been asking in the SA thread 'what, exactly, constitutes 'good survivor play'?' I have yet to receive an answer. So, the progression system. The progression system includes an effectively a global XP system called blood points. You get blood points by doing survivor things as survivor and killer things as killer. It all feeds into the same general pool. You may then use these points in character-specific webs of upgrades and items. One of the ramifications of this is that you do not necessarily have to play something to level it up. I dumped tons of blood points earned as killer into survivor loadouts. For the most part, these webs of upgrades (blood webs) include one-match modifiers that can seriously change the balance of the match, but are only for one match. As matches are generally over and done with in under 10 minutes, even if someone blows an entire loadout of hot stuff, it's not that big of a deal. The real boon of the blood webs are perks. Perks are permanent modifiers to your character, and you can attach up to 4 at a time. These perks can do some extremely powerful things, like unlock entirely new options for survivors (such as self healing without finding a first aid kit, or sabotaging killer equipment without aid of a toolbox - both of which can be consumed or lost), or directly address some of the killer's only weaknesses (breaking wooden pallets in about half the time, or giving their first person view a greater FOV). Furthermore, when you reach certain levels, you can unlock 'teachable' versions of certain character-specific perks. When you unlock these, the ability (normally only known to one survivor) may appear in a bloodweb on ANY character on that side. So it is possible to have the sporty girl who normally has a run-fast perk also be able to sabotage and self heal. Or a Michael Myers killer, who normally revolves around obsessing over one survivor, have keen eyesight and brutal strength to instead play like an undeniable stalker. There are dozens upon dozens of perks. Unsurprisingly, these perks are not thoroughly tested before being released into the wild. I don't expect them to be; how could they be? There's literally hundreds of thousands of permutations. But the lack of any opt-in balance beta and the general unwillingness to release balance fixes from the devs leads to months upon months where blatantly busted perk combinations can be active and whip the entire community into a frenzy that misses the point entirely. A good example: When L4D's Bill Overbeck was added to DbD, he got one particular personal perk named 'borrowed time'. After you were hit a second time and would supposedly go into the downed state, you would instead get about 1 minute of grace period to run away before you would finally bleed out and go down. To assist in this, most actions are sped up during this state. They never considered how this would interact with self-heal. Using a few other perks to help increase heal speed, someone with Borrowed Time and Self-Heal could become effectively immortal by getting a few meters distance from the killer healing themselves. With basically any other team, this would have been a pretty easy fix. Oops, sorry, that was not intended. Add one if statement, done, fixed. Instead, it remained, and the incredible screeching from the community carried over into "survivors are overpowered in general", which is what the developers ended up listening to. This debacle directly influenced the creation of the bloodlust mechanic. I have, of course, neglected to mention that leveling up takes a lot of time. And attaining the good versions of many perks takes a lot of time. See, every perk has 3 levels, which you must unlock separately in 3 different blood webs. These perks get progressively more rare as you level them up, so you are more likely to see some garbage perk you will never use instead of something you are actually interested in. Also, since blood webs are procedurally generated, there is no guarantee you will see a perk you're interested in at any level. Sheer numbers will dictate that you will get what you want eventually, but eventually's quite a word, isn't it? I played for over 100 hours and still had multiple survivors at level 1 because I had no time to touch them. I still lack at least half of the 'good' perks entirely, and three quarters of them at the level 3 state you actually want them at. This creates entire classes in game of haves and have nots that further complicates any balance propositions because making a change to balance the haves will frequently affect the have-nots (again, bloodlust change). Just get Friday the 13th. It's 40 dollars instead of 20, but the game is much, much better thought out. Dead by Daylight is a colossal train wreck and it only gets worse with every patch I see.
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May 27, 2017 18:54
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Coolguye posted:I have, of course, neglected to mention that leveling up takes a lot of time. And attaining the good versions of many perks takes a lot of time. See, every perk has 3 levels, which you must unlock separately in 3 different blood webs. These perks get progressively more rare as you level them up, so you are more likely to see some garbage perk you will never use instead of something you are actually interested in. Also, since blood webs are procedurally generated, there is no guarantee you will see a perk you're interested in at any level. Sheer numbers will dictate that you will get what you want eventually, but eventually's quite a word, isn't it? I played for over 100 hours and still had multiple survivors at level 1 because I had no time to touch them. I still lack at least half of the 'good' perks entirely, and three quarters of them at the level 3 state you actually want them at. This creates entire classes in game of haves and have nots that further complicates any balance propositions because making a change to balance the haves will frequently affect the have-nots (again, bloodlust change).
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May 27, 2017 22:51
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Payday at least had a coherint thought process of what they want and what it should incorporate as a game that involves taking poo poo and fighting the law. DBD is a loving series of mistakes from start to finish. And aren't there like months old bugs like one of the Killers being absolutely broken and unfun to play as (nurse?),one of the survivors was like just recently "nerfed" to make him less OP and the game basically designed to make it easier for the survivors to play than the monster? If RAID wasn't from the ground up made in the image of Payday, I'd be worried for it. But I am not sure OVERKILL can handle making more than one game, let alone radically different genres outside of what they struck gold with.
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May 27, 2017 23:00
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Man, that progression system is a mess. I got DbD but I only put a few hours in it because I could see that the perks were going to be a problem but I had no idea they got that bad. Isn't that game played competitively to some degree? Also, I joined a DW Forest game and the host had named himself Dragan as well as play him. After we beat that, he immediately switched to Dockyard, then Scarface mansion and then thanked us and quit. I thought a RPing heister was p cool thank u for reading my story.
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May 28, 2017 00:16
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clockworkjoe posted:Also, I joined a DW Forest I'm XXV-100 and have like 70% of the games achievements.
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May 28, 2017 02:07
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Behold and Rejoice, friends. Wilko has named me Dictator of Design. Emphasis on Dictator. I shall rule in his place should he die, find a more lucrative job, or win the lottery. I have a few proclamations outlined in case of such eventualities, but far more to come. All drill and saw timers are now reduced by half. All drills are now loose loot stored in the player spawn zone, and must be carried by hand to any drill location. These drills will have the same move penalties as gold. Existing special drills that were already loose loot have also had their timers reduced by half, and are as heavy as Almir's Toast. Overdrill is also reduced by half. The overdrill drill must be found through a secondary puzzle that must be completed. Players will only be able to move this drill by relaying it to eachother, as it will have a 100% move penalty. Stealth is a much loathed portion of the game. It can be unforgiving with no backup state in case of failure, and guard pathing is often arbitrary. To ease the difficulty, there is no longer a limit on the number of pagers that can be answered per heist. Pagers now take three times as long to answer. Captain Winters is (rightly) the subject of ridicule. To make him a legitimate threat, we are removing the shields from him and his team. They now spawn with RPGs. Removing increase spawn rates while Winters is on the map. Snipers spawning while Captain Winters is active spawn with RPGs.
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May 28, 2017 03:32
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Good this makes Trip Mines being super good at killing Winters meaningful
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May 28, 2017 04:12
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Bagged drills for maps like the Forest and Big Bank (for inner cages) are going to suck. There should be a limit on how many guards you can kill on stealth maps, but more than 4. Instead, you have to leave a certain number of guards alive. It could be a percentage of total guards or a flat number. If you 100% wiped out all guards on a map, the alarm should be raised.
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May 28, 2017 05:10
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| # ? May 19, 2024 10:38 |
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Fuuka Ayase posted:Behold and Rejoice, friends. Wilko has named me Dictator of Design. Emphasis on Dictator. I shall rule in his place should he die, find a more lucrative job, or win the lottery. I have a few proclamations outlined in case of such eventualities, but far more to come.
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May 28, 2017 05:11
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