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What is the best flav... you all know what this question is: This poll is closed. |
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|---|---|---|---|
| Labour |
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907 | 49.92% |
| Theresa May Team (Conservative) |
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48 | 2.64% |
| Liberal Democrats |
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31 | 1.71% |
| UKIP |
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13 | 0.72% |
| Plaid Cymru |
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25 | 1.38% |
| Green |
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22 | 1.21% |
| Scottish Socialist Party |
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12 | 0.66% |
| Scottish Conservative Party |
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1 | 0.06% |
| Scottish National Party |
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59 | 3.25% |
| Some Kind of Irish Unionist |
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4 | 0.22% |
| Alliance / Irish Nonsectarian |
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3 | 0.17% |
| Some Kind of Irish Nationalist |
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36 | 1.98% |
| Misc. Far Left Trots |
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35 | 1.93% |
| Misc. Far Right Fash |
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8 | 0.44% |
| Monster Raving Loony |
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49 | 2.70% |
| Space Navies Party |
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39 | 2.15% |
| Independent / Single Issue |
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2 | 0.11% |
| Can't Vote |
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188 | 10.35% |
| Won't Vote |
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8 | 0.44% |
| Spoiled Ballot |
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15 | 0.83% |
| Pissflaps |
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312 | 17.17% |
| Total: | 1817 votes | ||
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They're reporting three incidents, but it appears that the London Bridge and Borough Market ones are the same? Van driving into people on the bridge, crashing near the market (100 yards down the road) and then guys with knives jumping out. There's no information on the Vauxhall incident so it may be something completely separate. There is now also chatter about Monument station, which is on the other side of the Thames from Borough Market, across the (closed) bridge.
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Jun 4, 2017 00:40
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Lord_Adonis posted:With all this talk of 'de-escalation' vis Corbyn, does anyone think that there is any value in allowing ISIS to create their Caliphate from the Sunni and Non-Kurd parts of Iraq and Syria, with the Shia and Kurdish parts of Iraq, Jordan, Turkey, and Assad Syria acting as a containment barrier to further expansion (With the support of NATO, Russia and China if called upon by those countries)? I would suggest that, having observed other nations considered 'ideologically extreme' moderate their relationship with the rest of the world over time, throughout history, might and ISIS caliphate not do the same? For example, after the revolution, the USSR was considered to be an international pariah. However, as little as ten years later, Stalin was able to somewhat normalise relations with the rest of the Capitalist world, with Khruschev and Brezhnev following through a generation after the Revolution. The same can be said for Iran since 1979 and China since the 1970s. I believe that the same dynamic would have occurred had the Taliban been left alone to consolidate their rule in Afghanistan. Perhaps de-escalation means a 'cordon-sanitaire' for a generation or two, giving the rulers of an ISIS Caliphate the time to determine that a hyper-exclusionist society will not work in the long term- bringing them to the table by showing them a better way that is able to compromise civil liberties and gender equality with the practise of Islam. If Christian-Democratic parties were able to reconcile civil society and religion in Europe, then why not Islamic-Democratic parties in the Islamic world? what should this new isis country be called. i nominate thunderdome. or perhaps clusterfuckistan.
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Jun 4, 2017 00:40
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Weasling Weasel posted:It's all just nihilstic killing. With the IRA bombings, the demand was for a fully independent Ireland, and there was an understandable if completely unjustifable goal. What exactly is the point of killing for the ISIS perspective? How do you even stop purely random, nonsensical violence? You don't understand ISIS. Learn them. They don't want leftists to win in the west. They want the right wing to win. They want people who will invade Syria, because in Islamic prophecy the army of "Rome" is defeated at Debiq, Syria, and this defeat leads to the apocalypse. They are literally a doomsday cult who believes they are part of God's Army bringing around the end time. There's no way to argue or reason with this line of radical thinking. They will do anything and everything they need to do to ensure that the west invades. It would not surprise me if they carried out these attacks due to the rise of Labour in recent polls. They require us to invade Syria with a physical army and then lose to fulfill end time prophesy. Everything and everything they do points to these goals.
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Jun 4, 2017 00:41
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orange sky posted:You are saying something that is not true am not R. Guyovich posted:majority eh yea
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Jun 4, 2017 00:41
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Tortuga posted:Wonder how many times they're gonna air the "MUSLIM CANTS!" phone video and how helpful they think that will be.
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Jun 4, 2017 00:41
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Steve2911 posted:Wait a bit then try again.
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Jun 4, 2017 00:41
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Sky News have reported a statement from prime minister Theresa May: “The terrible incident in London is being treated as a potential act of terrorism.”
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Jun 4, 2017 00:42
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Maybe it's time to start going after the families of these suspects and deport them (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 4, 2017 00:43
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forkboy84 posted:Are you on the windup? I am not trying to wind anyone up. Clearly, Coalition and Russian bombing isn't providing a solution past destroying the current incarnation of ISIS in detail. As for Shia-Iraq and Assad-Syria retaking territory from ISIS wont eliminate the support that ISIS have in those areas, and will most likely require mass-repression to suppress. A better solution needs to be considered, rather than simply deferring the problem for a few years under a hail of bombs. If the idea of a Caliphate is to exist, then let it exist in one place within clearly defined borders. If they seek to expand whilst in a hyper-exclusionary state, let them wear themselves out against a cordon provided by the aforementioned states in the region, with support from elsewhere if requested. Such a process will no doubt only hasten the decline in their resolve and confidence. At some point in the future, they will seek to normalise relations with their neighbours, as the benefits of multilateral-cooperation, trade and an end to perpetual war are demonstrated to them. In the meantime, nations like the UK can adopt a 'point defence' strategy at home, without the need for bombs and collateral damage abroad, assisted with the reallocation of funds allocated to foreign interventions to domestic counter terror operations, and the organs of multi-faith, multi-ethnic and multi-cultural amity and cooperation. Lord_Adonis fucked around with this message at 00:47 on Jun 4, 2017 |
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Jun 4, 2017 00:44
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ISeeCuckedPeople posted:You don't understand ISIS. Learn them. We don't even know this is ISIS. And even if it is, it might be self-radicalised actors. It's a bit early to posit a grand plan to keep Corbyn down.
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Jun 4, 2017 00:44
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Endorph posted:if these attacks are to influence the election, they'll resume whenever a new one is called. if they are totally random, they'll continue regardless of the election. Are they supposed to influence the election? If so, in what direction?
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Jun 4, 2017 00:45
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I thought you guys were joking about the sudden influx of wannabe fascists to the thread but nope.
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Jun 4, 2017 00:45
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Dead Cosmonaut posted:Maybe it's time to start going after the families of these suspects and deport them That is really not going to fix anything. Once again what ISIS and ISIS Terrorists do they all do to ensure the Western Invasion of Syria and the end-times. The media who fails to explain this as their goal and continues to constantly report day in and day out about them with no context are directly aiding them and bringing about the same goal of ISIS. There is only one way to stop ISIS and that is ignore them and their actions. To make them inconsequential.
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Jun 4, 2017 00:45
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Dead Cosmonaut posted:Maybe it's time to start going after the families of these suspects and deport them Get hosed.
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Jun 4, 2017 00:46
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Roblo posted:I thought you guys were joking about the sudden influx of wannabe fascists to the thread but nope. It happens every loving time with a regularity that you could set the atomic clock to.
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Jun 4, 2017 00:46
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Steve2911 posted:Wait a bit then try again. Seems like that might encounter the same problems unless you're expecting us to run out of terrorists in the interim.
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Jun 4, 2017 00:46
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chernobyl kinsman posted:when the majority of members of a religion hold hostilely intolerant views that directly contradict the foundations of your society it can be a bit tough to keep falling back on "well thats their beliefs and i respect that" yea I'm frowning at this post while raising a single eyebrow at the two mods posting itt atm
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Jun 4, 2017 00:46
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Roblo posted:I thought you guys were joking about the sudden influx of wannabe fascists to the thread but nope. Yeah it happens. I mean, for all the "God, leftists, and their concerns for any strata of society that's not the currently-dead people!" type posting, there's a group that's jacking off every time they see "murder" and "muslim" in the same sentence and it's not the people who're worried about cyclic violence.
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Jun 4, 2017 00:46
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Lord_Adonis posted:I am not trying to wind anyone up. Clearly, Coalition and Russian bombing isn't providing a solution past destroying the current incarnation of ISIS in detail. As for Shia-Iraq and Assad-Syria retaking territory from ISIS wont eliminate the support that ISIS have in those areas, and will most likely require mass-repression to suppress. A better solution needs to be considered, rather than simply deferring the problem for a few years under a hail of bombs. If the idea of a Caliphate is to exist, then let it exist in one place within clearly defined borders. If they seek to expand whilst in a hyper-exclusionary state, let them wear themselves out against a cordon provided by the aforementioned states in the region, with support from elsewhere if requested. Such a process will no doubt only hasten the decline in their resolve and confidence. At some point in the future, they will seek to normalise relations with their neighbours, as the benefits of multilateral-cooperation, trade and an end to perpetual war are demonstrated to them. In the meantime, nations like the UK can adopt a 'point defence' strategy at home, without the need for bombs and collateral damage abroad, assisted with the reallocation of funds allocated to foreign interventions to domestic counter terror operations.  Are you really this detached from reality?
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Jun 4, 2017 00:46
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Dead Cosmonaut posted:Maybe it's time to start going after the families of these suspects and deport them Low effort: 3/10
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Jun 4, 2017 00:47
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Dead Cosmonaut posted:Maybe it's time to start going after the families of these suspects and deport them Can we start with you?
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Jun 4, 2017 00:47
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Lord_Adonis posted:With all this talk of 'de-escalation' vis Corbyn, does anyone think that there is any value in allowing ISIS to create their Caliphate from the Sunni and Non-Kurd parts of Iraq and Syria, with the Shia and Kurdish parts of Iraq, Jordan, Turkey, and Assad Syria acting as a containment barrier to further expansion (With the support of NATO, Russia and China if called upon by those countries)? I would suggest that, having observed other nations considered 'ideologically extreme' moderate their relationship with the rest of the world over time, throughout history, might and ISIS caliphate not do the same? For example, after the revolution, the USSR was considered to be an international pariah. However, as little as ten years later, Stalin was able to somewhat normalise relations with the rest of the Capitalist world, with Khruschev and Brezhnev following through a generation after the Revolution. The same can be said for Iran since 1979 and China since the 1970s. I believe that the same dynamic would have occurred had the Taliban been left alone to consolidate their rule in Afghanistan. Perhaps de-escalation means a 'cordon-sanitaire' for a generation or two, giving the rulers of an ISIS Caliphate the time to determine that a hyper-exclusionist society will not work in the long term- bringing them to the table by showing them a better way that is able to compromise civil liberties and gender equality with the practise of Islam. If Christian-Democratic parties were able to reconcile civil society and religion in Europe, then why not Islamic-Democratic parties in the Islamic world? The article linked earlier about ISIS is relevant here, I think. https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/. ISIS is an apocalyptic cult, and they will act to fulfill their prophecy. In that sense, there may not be a moderation if ISIS was to become a containment zone of radicalism. edit: these attacks may not have anything to do with it, but I just found that article to be an interesting read. Eeyo fucked around with this message at 00:58 on Jun 4, 2017 |
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Jun 4, 2017 00:47
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Dead Cosmonaut posted:Maybe it's time to start going after the families of these suspects and deport them In the Manchester incident, the family had actively been reporting the prep to the authorities for quite a while, so gently caress off with that.
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Jun 4, 2017 00:48
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CottonWolf posted:We don't even know this is ISIS. And even if it is, it might be self-radicalised actors. It's a bit early to posit a grand plan to keep Corbyn down. You don't get it. They preach everywhere. Their message is universal and embedded in thousands of years of islamic teaching. It's like if a cult of christians developed a group of militia and took over ireland and pointed to the bible and said that it says the forces of rome will be destroyed in a battle in ireland and that would cause the second coming of christ and that they need to force a invasion of ireland by the rest of the world to bring about the end time and they kept teaching that all across the internet. If there is a self radicalized person performing a ISIS attack they believe they are serving allah by aiding in bringing about the end times and affecting the west to invade Syria so that every single infidel can be wiped off the face of the map at the final day of judgment by Allah. There is no other goal for them. Get it through your head.
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Jun 4, 2017 00:48
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Steve2911 posted:Are they supposed to influence the election? If so, in what direction? like someone else said it's a bit insane to posit that this is all some grand plan to kill corbyn or w/e but it is entirely possible that these attacks have to do with the election. it's a time of potential political upheaval in the uk. a government that is very far right and very pro-military would be better for their goals (of white people invading syria and the world being blown up) than a leftist government focused on deescalation. terrorist attacks could easily drive anti-muslim, pro-military sentiments.
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Jun 4, 2017 00:50
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Steve2911 posted:Are they supposed to influence the election? If so, in what direction? If it is isis, which it probably will turn out to be, the aim is to get the right elected as they're more likely to create a culture of hostility towards the entire community.
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Jun 4, 2017 00:50
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Prince John posted:Thanks for posting - somewhat unexpectedly, I found some of it quite interesting. I had heard criticism of the Labour manifesto for not doing more to address the cuts before and this article had this IFS graph to illustrate: Reading beyond the graph that seems to be entirely due to the Tories and Labour keeping a cap on child tax credits and Lib Dems saying they'd get rid of it. Absolutely amazing that it has such an inpact. Labour are using that money to fund public services though (which aren't included in that graph obviously) so if there was some sort of net spending graph Labour would be a lot closer to the Lib Dems.
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Jun 4, 2017 00:50
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ISeeCuckedPeople posted:You don't get it. They preach everywhere. Their message is universal and embedded in thousands of years of islamic teaching. Well that settles that, cuckman has spoken.
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Jun 4, 2017 00:51
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Hurrr I'm going to quote the troll posts and give them a withering dismissive put down to get them to stop because that's exactly what works my god some of you get a grip
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Jun 4, 2017 00:51
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Redgrendel2001 posted:
I could be wrong, but in my albeit limited historical understanding, I do not know of a state that could sustain a multi-generational war via the total mobilisation of its society and economy. Eventually, with no prospect of victory and complete international isolation, an inevitable choice has to be made between total societal collapse and negotiation that permits an end to the unsustainable total mobilisation.
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Jun 4, 2017 00:51
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ISeeCuckedPeople posted:That is really not going to fix anything. Their kids are citizens but their parents sure as hell aren't These people radicalize because they fail to adopt western values That Blame lands solely on their parents You can't win by deporting entire communities. Ergo, without consequences that extend beyond the individual you cannot beat martyrdom Their shithead parents are not innocent Just look at the father of that guy who shot up the gay bar in Miami (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 4, 2017 00:51
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https://twitter.com/metpoliceuk/status/871152386739404800
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Jun 4, 2017 00:52
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Endorph posted:as far right as possible because they're a literal doomsday cult. they want the entire world to be as radicalized and militarized as possible. If it is because of Corbyn it's because he said "hey maybe stop bombing farmers with suspicious looking goats and work out some kind of loving plan", rather than a distaste for socialism.
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Jun 4, 2017 00:52
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Best stabbing-related news I've had this month
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Jun 4, 2017 00:53
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Hoops posted:Hurrr I'm going to quote the troll posts and give them a withering dismissive put down to get them to stop because that's exactly what works my god some of you get a grip Hmmmm... Lord_Adonis posted:I could be wrong, but in my albeit limited historical understanding, I do not know of a state that could sustain a multi-generational war via the total mobilisation of its society and economy. Eventually, with no prospect of victory and complete international isolation, an inevitable choice has to be made between total societal collapse and negotiation that permits an end to the unsustainable total mobilisation. Let's be clear, it's a bad idea that will result in misery and death for millions.
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Jun 4, 2017 00:53
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The scary thing is if Christians didn't hate Muslims so much and ISIS didn't hate Christians so much the prophecies they follow fall very much inline with the prophecies Christian Evangelicals believe. If they were actually to think outside themselves and Islam (impossibly since they are so radically islamic) their cross-religious outreach to bring the endtimes by targetting the Christian Radicals with these same ideas could have been very successful at causing more extremist attacks in the West.
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Jun 4, 2017 00:53
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It's weird that they're refering to London Bridge and Borough Market as seperate events. Aren't they so close that it's extremely likely the same people just went from one to the other?
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Jun 4, 2017 00:54
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Mods can you give these guys more than sixers this time? Its pretty loving lovely to have to deal with this EVERY time on top of the shittiness of these attacks.
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Jun 4, 2017 00:54
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Hoops posted:Hurrr I'm going to quote the troll posts and give them a withering dismissive put down to get them to stop because that's exactly what works my god some of you get a grip It's really hard to tell who's trolling and who is sincerely stupid, though.
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Jun 4, 2017 00:55
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I'm waltzing into this thread with a hot take: This is bad for Tim Farron.
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Jun 4, 2017 00:55
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