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Steve Yun posted:My memory is fuzzy... what happened with Dr Poison in the final battle? I remember Wonder Woman holding a tank over her but forgot how she got there or what happened after Dr. Poison I think kinda found her way to the battle between Ares and Diana, and Diana was filled with rage because Steve had just died. Ares was egging her on to kill Dr. Poison so she could be like him but Diana said no and let her live
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Jun 4, 2017 08:21
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Carlosologist posted:Dr. Poison I think kinda found her way to the battle between Ares and Diana, and Diana was filled with rage because Steve had just died. Ares was egging her on to kill Dr. Poison so she could be like him but Diana said no and let her live Thanks... so this film putting a Judeo Christian lens on Greek mythology, this moment could be construed as Satan tempting Jesus in the wilderness or something
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Jun 4, 2017 08:34
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Steve Yun posted:My memory is fuzzy... what happened with Dr Poison in the final battle? I remember Wonder Woman holding a tank over her but forgot how she got there or what happened after She just walks away.
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Jun 4, 2017 08:37
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It was pretty vague, probably intentionally. Dr Maru was lying on the ground in front of Diana, they talk, Diana throws the tank down sort of in front of her but to the side but they don't show where it landed, Dr Maru is never seen again in the film. Unless I missed something to show that she lived???
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Jun 4, 2017 09:18
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Uh...it's not vague. Maru clearly got away and survived unless your interpretation of the plot is "Ares tries to goad Diana into murdering a defenseless woman, Diana remembers the power of love and refuses him, then casually murders her anyway."
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Jun 4, 2017 09:28
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Well that was right after she murdered a non special guy trying to serve the German army with a sword.
Tenzarin fucked around with this message at 13:54 on Jun 4, 2017 |
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Jun 4, 2017 09:32
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BrianWilly posted:Uh...it's not vague. Maru clearly got away and survived Yeah that's not shown at all.
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Jun 4, 2017 09:34
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I just saw the film again about two hours ago and Maru gets up and runs offscreen as soon as Diana has her moment of Zen. She's alive. Diana didn't throw a loving tank on her ffs.
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Jun 4, 2017 09:55
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I said come in! posted:Wonder Woman is the best DCEU super hero movie to date. Corrected a typo for you.
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Jun 4, 2017 09:56
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BrianWilly posted:I just saw the film again about two hours ago and Maru gets up and runs offscreen as soon as Diana has her moment of Zen. She's alive. Diana didn't throw a loving tank on her ffs. Weird, I was particularly trying to pay attention to what happened to her and I don't remember that
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Jun 4, 2017 10:22
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That's not surprising, since that entire final battle is an absolute disaster in terms of actually developing a sense of space. There's no sense of where anything in that base is actually located in relation to anything else. poo poo appears nearby when it needs to. People appear and disappear when they need to. It's a mess. Really enjoyed the movie, but that final battle did everything it could to dissuade me.
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Jun 4, 2017 12:06
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https://twitter.com/chrishemsworth/status/871025842595540993
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Jun 4, 2017 12:21
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Tenzarin posted:Well that was right after she murdered a non special guy trying to serve the gGerman army with a sword. WW has never had problems murdering the poo poo out of bad guys
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Jun 4, 2017 13:04
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Steve Yun posted:Captain America spent a lot of time properly setting the stage. Steve Rogers attempts and fails to get into the army, his buddy in the army shows up and talks about what it's like in the army, etc, Steve gets in, there's basic training, he serves in the USO which is raising funds for the war, etc. There's a lot of stuff related to war happening that revolves around the central fact that there's a war going on, so by the time Steve Rogers gets to his first battle, we've already accepted that this war is real. It also separates Captain America from the real war, first by making him a propaganda performer, and then by having him not fight the German army at all, but a comic book offshoot, so he doesn't bump up against "real history" at all. It's all supposed to be secret to everyone anyway. Also we're more used to silly pulp entertainment based on WW II because there has been so much of it, while the Great War is mostly treated more "seriously" in fiction even though it was smaller and had less indiscriminate civilian slaughter.
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Jun 4, 2017 13:24
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DC Murderverse posted:can we slow our rolls with this? Like, movie was real good, definitely better than any of the Marvel origin stories save Iron Man, Cap, and Guardians, but it's not the best one. Definitely better than MoS and BvS, but nowhere near as good as Dredd.
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Jun 4, 2017 13:43
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They've only got the Friday domestic box office estimates listed so far but Wonder Woman is already beating Baywatch and King Arthur: Legend of the Sword and is just a smidgen behind Ghost In The Shell 
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Jun 4, 2017 14:17
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Snowman_McK posted:There's not a huge amount of WW1 media. I mean, currently, there's a computer game, which boils down a hellish conflict into "Throw grenades at zeppelins while you're on a horse" and there's a few horror movies set in the trenches, but with the war being as awful and pointless as it was, and having a bigger budget sequel, it doesn't lend itself to popular media very well. At the time, the war involved a lot of popular superstitions involving angels, devils, ghostly archers slaying soldiers on the battlefield, etc.    Also this is mainly about understanding who your characters are. The Marvel movies have been successful because with the exception of Thor (who serves as a foil), the heroes are normal people who happen to be superheroes. DC's characters are space aliens and gods, and inherently outside the understanding of mortals. DC has struggled with what to do about that, so it's made its films "dark." What the studio should do, and what Wonder Wonder seems to do, is bring out the otherworldy and epic nature of the characters. BrutalistMcDonalds fucked around with this message at 16:11 on Jun 4, 2017 |
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Jun 4, 2017 16:07
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OMG JC a Bomb! posted:I was with this movie until the end. Why is Ares a British grandpa? Why did he have a moustache the whole time? The whole theater laughed at Freddy Mercury Ares, and the whole final showdown suffered for it. I felt the same way. For some reason the mustache was super distracting. I would have rather it either burned off when his armor formed or if it went into a full beard. You could singe it with fire for a neat effect or something. I know it's nit-picky but it was so weird. Also, did his armor have any particular relevance? Like was it old British knight armor that Ares pulled from history to tie into his modern form? I know nothing of Greek mythology, is this armor something the Gods were known to wear? It felt kinda generic to me. If he's more of trickster that influences man, having a giant suit of armor seems a little out of character? It'd be like if Loki built himself a mech suit. I thought the whole "What is that?" "Oh, my peni... watch?" was a little too on the nose. There's a fine line for humor that kids watching don't see and only realize when you watch it 10 years later what the joke was, and that felt way too heavy handed. Even editing that down so he isn't stammering and staring down at his crotch would have helped. "What is that?!" *Steve looks bewildered for a second* "Some sort of time device?" Obviously written better, though. I may just be becoming a prude in my old age, though.
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Jun 4, 2017 16:12
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This is probably one of the best articles written on Wonder Woman. It's really long but worth the read. It's all about Marston, the inspiration for Wonder Woman, etc.. http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/09/22/last-amazon
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Jun 4, 2017 16:20
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:
Wish the movie had anything even half as cool as what's going on in these. The No Mans Land scene comes close but that's pretty much it.
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Jun 4, 2017 16:24
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Does it turn the German soldiers into faceless, evil, proto-Nazis that one cannot be sympathetic to?
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Jun 4, 2017 17:42
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BobKnob posted:Does it turn the German soldiers into faceless, evil, proto-Nazis that one cannot be sympathetic to? In the final fight they're mostly wearing gas masks and get mowed down by WW pretty relentlessly but once the fight is over the survivors take their masks off and we see that they're scared young men barely out of their teens so they're instantly re-humanized
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Jun 4, 2017 17:50
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Has there been any word on why they went with actual historical-figure General Ludendorff as an antagonist instead of just inventing a General von Evilstein character to fill the role? I know it's not a huge issue, but I thought it was kind of weird; like if the bad guys in Captain America had been the Red Skull, and Dr Zola, oh and also Heinrich Himmler.
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Jun 4, 2017 18:01
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I'm gonna be perfectly honest (regarding the ending/villain) from the moment Ludendorff got stabbed and nothing happened I immediately thought that Maru was going to be the actual Ares since she was the one actually inventing the weapon and the moment she actually first encounters Diana (the gala) she stares just as much as Steve Trevor does. I can't decide if I would have liked that better because even though I rolled my eyes when the old British guy was revealed as Ares, thinking on it makes it work better in my head.
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Jun 4, 2017 18:05
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Apraxin posted:Has there been any word on why they went with actual historical-figure General Ludendorff as an antagonist instead of just inventing a General von Evilstein character to fill the role? I know it's not a huge issue, but I thought it was kind of weird; like if the bad guys in Captain America had been the Red Skull, and Dr Zola, oh and also Heinrich Himmler. Please do not make fun of my favorite blue cocaine gas using character of the movie. Just think if he had enough to restore all his power!
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Jun 4, 2017 18:27
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It never seriously occurred to me that Ares would be anyone but David Thewlis, from almost the moment he appeared, since he was over-cast for the role otherwise. It's like spotting the murderer on Law and Order.
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Jun 4, 2017 18:27
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:The Marvel movies have been successful because with the exception of Thor (who serves as a foil), the heroes are normal people who happen to be superheroes. DC's characters are space aliens and gods, and inherently outside the understanding of mortals. DC has struggled with what to do about that, so it's made its films "dark." What the studio should do, and what Wonder Wonder seems to do, is bring out the otherworldy and epic nature of the characters. I dont understand this. MoS wasn't so much dark as a more realistic take on Superman, where everyone feared him and showed the logical repercussions of what happens when Gods do battle in a real world like setting and happened to have genocidal villains which is something classic Superman had as well. Batman is dark by nature and so is Suicide Squad since they are just the dirty dozen and are full of vile individuals. I would also argue that MoS brought out the otherworldly nature of kryptonians with the smallville fight, showing that a goddamned A-10 is loving useless against these gods from above and how hosed everyone is without Superman on their side. MoS brings a feeling of "these people are some next-level poo poo." far stronger than any Marvel film. Is the sword from this film the same model as the one in BvS? Just asking since Ares kinda broke her little toy in this movie
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Jun 4, 2017 18:42
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I don't get why people call MoS dark. The darkest thing in the movie is the kryptonians raising their entire population with imposed genetic limits to breed slaves but no one ever talks about that and its a small point in the movie.
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Jun 4, 2017 18:46
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DC Murderverse posted:I'm gonna be perfectly honest (regarding the ending/villain) from the moment Ludendorff got stabbed and nothing happened I immediately thought that Maru was going to be the actual Ares since she was the one actually inventing the weapon and the moment she actually first encounters Diana (the gala) she stares just as much as Steve Trevor does. I can't decide if I would have liked that better because even though I rolled my eyes when the old British guy was revealed as Ares, thinking on it makes it work better in my head. My wife and I were talking about how for a moment we thought the movie was going to take the gutsy choice of having her kill Ludendorff and not even have ares show up. The entire airfield act could have played out exactly the same, and maru and super soldier Ludendorff read like they came out of an earlier (and better probably) draft where instead of a lovely DBZ fight, Diana is fighting the two villains that were actually established in the movie while Steve and co. do their thing. Then Diana stabs Ludendorff and has the same flip out and then Steve sacrifices himself. The DBZ fight muddies the entire fuckin movie and drops it from "pretty solid" to "fine"
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Jun 4, 2017 18:48
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Waffles Inc. posted:My wife and I were talking about how for a moment we thought the movie was going to take the gutsy choice of having her kill Ludendorff and not even have ares show up. I agree that this would be more thematically appropriate but the problem is that in order for Steve to make his sacrifice you need to have Diana distracted or otherwise occupied so that she wouldn't just go and save him. it would also make the movie just a little bit too cynical, even though I think where they ended up is too far down the other side of that.
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Jun 4, 2017 18:51
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MrJacobs posted:I would also argue that MoS brought out the otherworldly nature of kryptonians with the smallville fight, showing that a goddamned A-10 is loving useless against these gods from above and how hosed everyone is without Superman on their side. MoS brings a feeling of "these people are some next-level poo poo." far stronger than any Marvel film. and after that you have the loving World Engine.
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Jun 4, 2017 18:53
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DC Murderverse posted:I agree that this would be more thematically appropriate but the problem is that in order for Steve to make his sacrifice you need to have Diana distracted or otherwise occupied so that she wouldn't just go and save him. it would also make the movie just a little bit too cynical, even though I think where they ended up is too far down the other side of that. Oh no doubt she would need to be distracted. I really believe an early draft must have had a gassed-up Ludendorff being the distraction fight. It otherwise makes absolutely no sense for him to be a super soldier except for maybe, charitably, a red herring
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Jun 4, 2017 19:02
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Waffles Inc. posted:Oh no doubt she would need to be distracted. I really believe an early draft must have had a gassed-up Ludendorff being the distraction fight. It otherwise makes absolutely no sense for him to be a super soldier except for maybe, charitably, a red herring It's a red herring meant to make you think that Dr. Maru is the overall mastermind with a broader plot, and also a foreshadowing of what happens if the characters fail. Maru refers to it as "rejuvenating" because she doesn't know what the hell any of this does beyond what Ares whispers in her ear.
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Jun 4, 2017 19:31
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:In the final fight they're mostly wearing gas masks and get mowed down by WW pretty relentlessly but once the fight is over the survivors take their masks off and we see that they're scared young men barely out of their teens so they're instantly re-humanized There's also a weird moment when the villain is defeated where they all look refreshed and almost like they just snapped out of mind control. It was a weird way for that to play out considering what the conflict of the previous 10 minutes was about. Steve Yun posted:Thanks... so this film putting a Judeo Christian lens on Greek mythology, this moment could be construed as Satan tempting Jesus in the wilderness or something Pretty much, though it gets muddy here because Steve is clearly performing a Jesus-esque deed by sacrificing himself to redeem humanity in the eyes of God, AKA Wonder Woman. Also, as an aside, it kinda seems like Wonder Woman shouldn't know what Dr. Poison looks like. Nickoten fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Jun 4, 2017 |
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Jun 4, 2017 19:34
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I don't understand why people are saying the movie puts a Judeo-Christian lens on Greek mythology, unless they're familiar with neither.
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Jun 4, 2017 19:42
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Nickoten posted:There's also a weird moment when the villain is defeated where they all look refreshed and almost like they just snapped out of mind control. It was a weird way for that to play out considering what the conflict of the previous 10 minutes was about. She knows what she looks like because of a previous scene.
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Jun 4, 2017 19:45
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Brainiac Five posted:I don't understand why people are saying the movie puts a Judeo-Christian lens on Greek mythology, unless they're familiar with neither. Yeah I was reading this too and I haven't seen the movie yet but LMAO. I think part of it is that a lot of people (in the US especially) assume Judeo-Christianity is the oldest number one first "real" religion ever in all of history therefore any similarities to it in a thing obviously means it's through that lens even though basic concepts of like "one dude is waaaaay more powerful than everyone else and controls and guides everything" and "forgiveness is a thing" and so on are pretty universal things.
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Jun 4, 2017 19:47
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Just came back from watching it. Overall it was a pretty solid movie, certainly better than Suicide Squad but MoS and BvS are still the better DCEU movies for me. Chris Pine does a hell of a job as Steve Trevor and makes a great foil to Gal Gadot. Gadot herself is a wonderful Diana but then again I enjoyed the hell out of her appearance on BvS so she was never a concern for me. The plot is pretty straightforward and does what it sets to do for the most part. Introduce the Amazons and their mythos, create a strong supporting cast for Diana, an interesting conflict to drop Diana into and a mostly satisfactory conclusion. I'm not well versed on the events that transpired during WW1 but I think the film adequately used as backdrop for Diana's story. And really, is kind of silly to expect a documentary level of detail when that is clearly not the focus of the film makers. That said, I agree with the criticism the final battle is by far the weakest part of the film. And not because I feel is out of place -I thought the Ares' twist was well executed- but because it lacks the impact I'd expect from two gods clashing. Jenkins is a good director but she ain't Zack Snyder. Ares creating an armor from debris was an inspired idea but the execution left a lot to be desired. Personally I don't found the montage of the German soldiers looking relieved was out of place or contradicted the idea killing Ares would end the war. The film mentions multiple times that the war was already over and Ludendorff was the only one still pushing for it, so it makes sense that once he's gone, his soldiers would stop fighting altogether. Where the film did fail to stick the landing was on explaining why Diana's reason to stop getting involved on humanity's affairs. My best guess is that she embraced her godly status to defeat Ares and decided against taking an active role so she wouldn't influence the humanity's choices in the same way Ares did.
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Jun 4, 2017 19:59
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Tenzarin posted:I don't get why people call MoS dark. The darkest thing in the movie is the kryptonians raising their entire population with imposed genetic limits to breed slaves but no one ever talks about that and its a small point in the movie. It is dealt with in a satisfactory way. As opposed to the countless lives lost in the final battle.
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Jun 4, 2017 20:34
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LionArcher posted:She knows what she looks like because of a previous scene. Unless I'm misremembering, she never interacts with Dr. Poison nor has Dr. Poison pointed out to her during the gala. Is there a scene before that where people show her a picture or something? Brainiac Five posted:I don't understand why people are saying the movie puts a Judeo-Christian lens on Greek mythology, unless they're familiar with neither. Because if you know Greek mythology, then you know Zeus never created humanity nor really cared about them enough to make a "godkiller" to counter Ares who is reimagined in this movie as akin to the Antichrist (a "false prophet" who sows discord and incites world-ending war among men). And these changes are made to a movie that has to tie in with Batman vs. Superman, which is absolutely drenched in similar imagery. So why are you saying people must not be familiar with either of these mythos to make this observation, exactly? quote:Yeah I was reading this too and I haven't seen the movie yet but LMAO. I think part of it is that a lot of people (in the US especially) assume Judeo-Christianity is the oldest number one first "real" religion ever in all of history therefore any similarities to it in a thing obviously means it's through that lens even though basic concepts of like "one dude is waaaaay more powerful than everyone else and controls and guides everything" and "forgiveness is a thing" and so on are pretty universal things. Grew up half Hindu and I can tell you the allegories are pretty obvious, especially coming from a movie made, as far as I can tell, by WASPs. Nickoten fucked around with this message at 20:46 on Jun 4, 2017 |
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Jun 4, 2017 20:43
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