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What is the best flav... you all know what this question is: This poll is closed. |
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| Labour |
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907 | 49.92% |
| Theresa May Team (Conservative) |
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48 | 2.64% |
| Liberal Democrats |
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31 | 1.71% |
| UKIP |
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13 | 0.72% |
| Plaid Cymru |
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25 | 1.38% |
| Green |
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22 | 1.21% |
| Scottish Socialist Party |
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12 | 0.66% |
| Scottish Conservative Party |
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1 | 0.06% |
| Scottish National Party |
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59 | 3.25% |
| Some Kind of Irish Unionist |
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4 | 0.22% |
| Alliance / Irish Nonsectarian |
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3 | 0.17% |
| Some Kind of Irish Nationalist |
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36 | 1.98% |
| Misc. Far Left Trots |
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35 | 1.93% |
| Misc. Far Right Fash |
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8 | 0.44% |
| Monster Raving Loony |
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49 | 2.70% |
| Space Navies Party |
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39 | 2.15% |
| Independent / Single Issue |
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2 | 0.11% |
| Can't Vote |
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188 | 10.35% |
| Won't Vote |
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8 | 0.44% |
| Spoiled Ballot |
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15 | 0.83% |
| Pissflaps |
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312 | 17.17% |
| Total: | 1817 votes | ||
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Wolfsbane posted:Could be worse. In Germany they have basically the same system, except you register with the police. Yep this is what I was actually thinking of, I lived in Germany for a bit. I actually found it quite surprising that a country which is mostly pretty good on the "let's all remember how awful a nationalist dictatorship was" would stick with a law like that.
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Jun 12, 2017 09:08
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freebooter posted:I think CCTV coverage of public places and a national citizenry database are apples and oranges. Personally I don't mind them knowing where I live as it's a permanent or semi-permanent thing that basically isn't important. I mind the idea of them knowing where I go and move around on a daily basis more TBH. Ofcourse I don't live in a city so unless they got CCTVs mounted on pine trees they wouldn't spot me.
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Jun 12, 2017 09:08
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How can one man be so pure and innocent. HOW?
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Jun 12, 2017 09:09
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freebooter posted:The idea that your are required to update your address at a central government register, via the police, and will be penalised if you don't? Yes. There's a reason we don't do that in English common law countries. It's not done via the police, it's done via the civil magistrates. And you're still saying that it's super terrible that the government gets to know where you live, for some still unexplaned reason. Also it's kinda necessary for stuff like automatic voter registration and so on.
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Jun 12, 2017 09:11
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fwiw a whole bunch of English common law countries require address by registration - albeit mostly the former nonwhite empire anyway that aside, one of the major advantages of unifying registration with municipal service delivery is the elimination of the curious phenomenon of eligible non-claimancy, which can be as high as half of the eligible demographic for some social programmes "come here and get your free money" often does not work as well as it should, which aggravates a sense of malaise and crisis for no good reason
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Jun 12, 2017 09:11
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freebooter posted:
It's still perfectly possible to live without ever driving a car in quite a few areas of the UK - and unfortunately of course there's a lot of people who can't afford a car living in areas where it's not actually possible, as well.
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Jun 12, 2017 09:11
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Wait he's married? And to a 20 year younger woman. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/who-is-jeremy-corbyns-wife-10392461
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Jun 12, 2017 09:12
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goddamnedtwisto posted:It's still perfectly possible to live without ever driving a car in quite a few areas of the UK - and unfortunately of course there's a lot of people who can't afford a car living in areas where it's not actually possible, as well. Ah true - I remember trying to open a bank account in the UK without a driver's license and they said "just get a utility bill" and then stared at me blankly when I said I rented, as though I was the first person in London's history to a) not have a car, and b) rent Cerebral Bore posted:It's not done via the police, it's done via the civil magistrates. And you're still saying that it's super terrible that the government gets to know where you live, for some still unexplaned reason. I didn't say it was super terrible I said it was creepy and Orwellian, although on a creepy and Orwellian scale of 1 to 10 I'd rank it a 1. I just never liked it in Germany and I'd vote against it if they tried to implement it here. It's unnecessary. (And I live in a country with mandatory voting).
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Jun 12, 2017 09:14
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 My address is on my government issued driver's license and my voter registration card, I hope the government doesn't find out where I live.
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Jun 12, 2017 09:15
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https://twitter.com/QueerDiscOx/status/873841204747698176
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Jun 12, 2017 09:15
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VitalSigns posted:
You can opt out of driving and voting. You can't opt out of living.
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Jun 12, 2017 09:18
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Theresa May was 'in tears' and Tory staffer was physically sick on disastrous election nightquote:A Tory staffer was physically sick and Theresa May burst into tears as the Conservatives’ election night horror unfolded, it emerged today. 
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Jun 12, 2017 09:20
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freebooter posted:You can opt out of driving and voting. You can't opt out of living.
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Jun 12, 2017 09:20
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freebooter posted:You can opt out of driving and voting. You can't opt out of living. Try and stop me. Jose posted:E: Nuclear annihilation Posadist plat icon now.
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Jun 12, 2017 09:20
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simon wren-lewis can talk about helicopter money but in actuality the UK government does not have an exhaustive list of British people and their primary bank accounts, and so as a matter of governing infrastructure alone, cannot order that HM Treasury credit a hundred quid into every person's account considerations like that limit the policy space
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Jun 12, 2017 09:20
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coffeetable posted:can you opt out of council tax too? That's my landlord's problem 
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Jun 12, 2017 09:23
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Well we all know that only things that already exist can exist in the future so good point ronya
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Jun 12, 2017 09:25
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Miftan posted:How can one man be so pure and innocent. HOW? And he eats kebabs like a true man of the people.
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Jun 12, 2017 09:27
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I didn't think it was possible for me to like Corbs any more than I already did, but Fizzy Apple juice is MY favourite drink too!
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Jun 12, 2017 09:33
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ronya posted:simon wren-lewis can talk about helicopter money but in actuality the UK government does not have an exhaustive list of British people and their primary bank accounts, and so as a matter of governing infrastructure alone, cannot order that HM Treasury credit a hundred quid into every person's account
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Jun 12, 2017 09:36
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freebooter posted:I can't speak for everybody but coming from an English common law system, that actually sounds creepy and Orwellian. Turns out it's common in a lot of European countries and I also found it really weird. I didn't even tell the government when I left the UK, or when I moved back. Just got on a plane. Also if your local authority for some reason doesn't update your information when you report a move, it's a whole lot of hassle and getting incorrectly charged money, as I discovered in the Netherlands. big scary monsters fucked around with this message at 09:41 on Jun 12, 2017 |
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Jun 12, 2017 09:39
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Zephro posted:You can post £100 in cash to every house on the electoral register instead Postman Pat, Postman Pat, Postman Pat why's your wallet so fat?
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Jun 12, 2017 09:40
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Zephro posted:You can post £100 in cash to every house on the electoral register instead So when we go full 90s Russia it'll be postmen who end up as the new oligarchs.
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Jun 12, 2017 09:42
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Can anyone post the tweet that had the vote swing for each constituency?
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Jun 12, 2017 09:52
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Following on from a post-election discussion I'd taken part in on Facebook, I ended up in a surprising and slightly heated political debate with my mother yesterday. I was very disappointed to see her buying heavily into all the Daily Mail stories about Corbyn while applying no critical thinking on obvious bias and the absence of cited sources (she's a retired teacher with two degrees!). Putting aside the horror of watching my own mother turning into a 'kipper, one point did strike me. She kept coming back to "there's no money for all of this", and when I tried to explain that austerity was a huge con I quickly hit the limits of my knowledge on the subject. So I'm now wondering on how austerity policies have been used in other countries before (particularly in the last decade), how successful they've been, and if anywhere else has implemented Corbyn-style socialist policies instead. I did find a few articles like this, but they don't tend to be very well cited/sourced so I can't judge how accurate they are. Is this something anyone can expand on?
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Jun 12, 2017 09:54
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I'm loving loving how all of the corbs prior critics are back-pedalling and telling everyone to get the gently caress in line. Britain is so funny these days.
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Jun 12, 2017 09:55
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xtothez posted:Following on from a post-election discussion I'd taken part in on Facebook, I ended up in a surprising and slightly heated political debate with my mother yesterday. I was very disappointed to see her buying heavily into all the Daily Mail stories about Corbyn while applying no critical thinking on obvious bias and the absence of cited sources (she's a retired teacher with two degrees!). Putting aside the horror of watching my own mother turning into a 'kipper, one point did strike me. She kept coming back to "there's no money for all of this", and when I tried to explain that austerity was a huge con I quickly hit the limits of my knowledge on the subject. I recommend the book Austerity by Mark Blythe. And I guess Naomi Kleins Shock Doctrine for a general thesis on how the poor get hosed at every turn in the modern world
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Jun 12, 2017 09:58
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And we didn't go Corbyn-style socialism, but Australia weathered the GFC without going into recession entirely because we didn't do austerity for the first few years while we had a labor government. And instead spent lots of money on public works projects and giving everyone $900 in the mail.
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Jun 12, 2017 10:00
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xtothez posted:Following on from a post-election discussion I'd taken part in on Facebook, I ended up in a surprising and slightly heated political debate with my mother yesterday. I was very disappointed to see her buying heavily into all the Daily Mail stories about Corbyn while applying no critical thinking on obvious bias and the absence of cited sources (she's a retired teacher with two degrees!). Putting aside the horror of watching my own mother turning into a 'kipper, one point did strike me. She kept coming back to "there's no money for all of this", and when I tried to explain that austerity was a huge con I quickly hit the limits of my knowledge on the subject. There's this guy called John Maynard Keynes your mother may have heard of him
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Jun 12, 2017 10:01
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xtothez posted:Following on from a post-election discussion I'd taken part in on Facebook, I ended up in a surprising and slightly heated political debate with my mother yesterday. I was very disappointed to see her buying heavily into all the Daily Mail stories about Corbyn while applying no critical thinking on obvious bias and the absence of cited sources (she's a retired teacher with two degrees!). Putting aside the horror of watching my own mother turning into a 'kipper, one point did strike me. She kept coming back to "there's no money for all of this", and when I tried to explain that austerity was a huge con I quickly hit the limits of my knowledge on the subject. Agree with above. Mark Blyth's book puts forward a pretty thorough case for the cons of austerity, with examples throughout history of its failures. If you're like me and enjoy watching lectures, he has lots of talks on Youtube where you explains a lot of the ideas in his book in puntuated with a wry, Scottish sense of humour. I've heard that Canada's economic policy matches Corbyn's quite closely, but haven't done any reading to verify for myself. Would be interested to see if someone can confirm this?
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Jun 12, 2017 10:03
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xtothez posted:Following on from a post-election discussion I'd taken part in on Facebook, I ended up in a surprising and slightly heated political debate with my mother yesterday. I was very disappointed to see her buying heavily into all the Daily Mail stories about Corbyn while applying no critical thinking on obvious bias and the absence of cited sources (she's a retired teacher with two degrees!). Putting aside the horror of watching my own mother turning into a 'kipper, one point did strike me. She kept coming back to "there's no money for all of this", and when I tried to explain that austerity was a huge con I quickly hit the limits of my knowledge on the subject. Just point out the proportion of wealth accumulated by the very rich, mention the trillions held offshore, the constant sweetheart deals given to large corporations by hmrc (the multiple billions to vodaphone a few years back, for example). Fifth or sixth richest nation on earth e.t.c Just be ready for it not to work even with all the facts and such. Decades of dripfed propaganda take more than a few conversations to overthrow.
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Jun 12, 2017 10:07
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xtothez posted:Following on from a post-election discussion I'd taken part in on Facebook, I ended up in a surprising and slightly heated political debate with my mother yesterday. I was very disappointed to see her buying heavily into all the Daily Mail stories about Corbyn while applying no critical thinking on obvious bias and the absence of cited sources (she's a retired teacher with two degrees!). Putting aside the horror of watching my own mother turning into a 'kipper, one point did strike me. She kept coming back to "there's no money for all of this", and when I tried to explain that austerity was a huge con I quickly hit the limits of my knowledge on the subject. Keynes.
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Jun 12, 2017 10:08
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Ie austerity is great during times of boom and not so great during times of recession.
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Jun 12, 2017 10:10
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Hmm, lessee, our minwage is still tiny, only propped up where I live by Alberta being a moneyboat, our government at all levels wants to keep shoveling money into the housing bubbles while chanting "middle class middle class middle class" all the way to the firey crash, our workers protections are mediocre, though acceptable compared to our neighbour. Our government pension is mostly inept at this point, though despite all that, we haven't privatised our health services ( they're just devolved to province level and none of them cover dental, optical or most elective health issues) I mean, we aren't *awful* but that's mostly looking at our southern firestorm neighbour.
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Jun 12, 2017 10:10
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xtothez posted:Following on from a post-election discussion I'd taken part in on Facebook, I ended up in a surprising and slightly heated political debate with my mother yesterday. I was very disappointed to see her buying heavily into all the Daily Mail stories about Corbyn while applying no critical thinking on obvious bias and the absence of cited sources (she's a retired teacher with two degrees!). Putting aside the horror of watching my own mother turning into a 'kipper, one point did strike me. She kept coming back to "there's no money for all of this", and when I tried to explain that austerity was a huge con I quickly hit the limits of my knowledge on the subject. No expert either but, from what I gather, we're the only ones in Western Europe who completely stopped investing in infrastructure when the recession hit, which is why our recovery was much slower than our neighbours - there's not a great deal of data since it's pretty much universally accepted that you do not cut investment during a recession (but cuts to public services are another matter). A lot of people also don't consider that poorer people tend to actually spend, meaning it goes straight back into the economy and gets spent again over and over, whereas the Tory model of giving money to wealth From what I gather, the Labour costing involves actually taking into account the effect of investment and greater distribution on growth, whereas the Tory objections are based on the assumption that investment just means throwing money into a hole and fiscal policy has no effect whatsoever on the economy. Safe hands, amiright e: PS - don't forget to always challenge the myth that it's Labour's spending that caused the global financial crisis, it's ridiculous how often you see statements like "we all know what happened last time" go unchallenged on the telly and whatnot. Yes, we all know what eventually happens when you spend the entire 1980s deregulating the financial services industry whilst rendering the entire economy dependent on it in the name of curbing union power, what of it? Borrovan fucked around with this message at 10:20 on Jun 12, 2017 |
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Jun 12, 2017 10:14
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Nthing Mark Blyth- if yer maw's a kipper she might enjoy his anti euro stuff and that can be the wedge for full re-education. I think I've seen everything he's put on YouTube and it's accessible and persuasive. I also spam them at my idiot friends with mixed results. Mugsbaloney fucked around with this message at 10:17 on Jun 12, 2017 |
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Jun 12, 2017 10:14
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Tory policy is "do nothing and say everything".
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Jun 12, 2017 10:15
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qhat posted:Ie austerity is great during times of boom and not so great during times of recession. Also what the Tories were up to wasn't actually austerity as the term has been applied at any other point in the UK's history. Previous periods of austerity were marked by high taxation and extensive redistribution to soften the blow on the poorest (normally along with large capital projects to stimulate the economy). Tory-style austerity - cutting progressive taxes, raising regressive taxes, and slashing spending on the bottom of the pile- not only hurts the very poorest disproportionately and massively enriches those at the top, it is provably ineffective at actually reducing the deficit because it shrinks the tax take far more than it can shrink spending because of the multiplier effect - poor people spend money, rich people save it. Which is better for the economy?
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Jun 12, 2017 10:22
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Jam Man representin'
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Jun 12, 2017 10:23
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goddamnedtwisto posted:Also what the Tories were up to wasn't actually austerity as the term has been applied at any other point in the UK's history. Previous periods of austerity were marked by high taxation and extensive redistribution to soften the blow on the poorest (normally along with large capital projects to stimulate the economy).
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Jun 12, 2017 10:26
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