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Macaluso posted:I really really really hate the thing in movies where the step dad and mom are assholes to the real dad, even though the daughter or son is super stoked to see him. No matter the context. I wish that was a story thing hat movies would just stop using. Oh poo poo I also want to comment on this. Cause IANAL but I am pretty sure child support does not work the way they imply, and I feel like it perpetuates a real weird stereotype about child support where it is something that dads have to pay to see their kids when a divorce happens. Like I believe it has to do with income and custody levels, i.e. since Scott has neither he would not just randomly need to pay the mother who appears super financially comfortable. I get that they are basically using it as shorthand for "you just got out of prison and your life is in shambles and your daughter has nowhere to visit you except your criminal buddy's apartment" but it comes off in a really creepy extortive way.
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Jun 15, 2017 16:17
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Guy A. Person posted:I think the issue is less about the music specifically and more that it seems to be becoming less and less Snyder's film and more Whedon's, and they kind of represent different takes on super heroes. We could wave off the rumors about how "extensive" the reshoots are going to be, but this seems like a pretty decisive "Junkie is Zack's guy, Elfman is Joss's" reversal. I'm still optimistic and the score is never really that important for me (I'm much more of a visual guy anyway, but I also don't think Junkie is on the level of Zimmer anyway) but I can understand the sinking feeling of looking forward to a film for very specific reasons, and it seems like things are going sideways quickly. I mean, even if you subscribe to the notion that there's this fantastical, unbridgeable gap between Whedon and Snyder as filmmakers (I don't), there's only so much Whedon can do, with almost all of the footage being shot. You're still basically getting a Zack Snyder film, but edited by Joss Whedon. It will still have Snyder's shot compositions and camera movement, it's just a matter of how they're arranged. Will it be different? Of course it will. That's unavoidable at this point. But Zack had faith in Joss, or he never would have chosen him. Besides, as Snyder himself said, it's just a movie. Go into it open to the possibility that it's going to be good and you'll almost certainly enjoy it more than if you go in convinced that Joss Whedon has infected it with his scary quips and car damage. The whole "Junkie is team Zack, Elfman is team Whedon" is weird. They're all team Justice League.
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Jun 15, 2017 16:17
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I don't really understand the appeal of the Universal Monster movie-verse. With comics, books, or plays you have a pre-established audience who is excited to see some kind of established media or story they are already invested in made into a movie. Was there a massive crowd of people who were wondering, "When will I finally get to see what a Mummy looks like on film?" or were really invested in the relationship between the mummy and whoever Tom Cruise is supposed to be?
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Jun 15, 2017 16:17
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Phylodox posted:I mean, I'm pretty much exactly the opposite of this. Neither the Nolan films nor the Amazing Spider-Man 2's score really did anything for me at all. Meanwhile, the Batman theme is iconic, and the Spider-Man's main theme (and Doc Ock's theme) remain some of my favourite to this day. Themes are different than scores. Early Elfman was great at making themes, but not so great at making scores. It makes sense, as Elfman was a pop artist that made catchy songs. So, when he scored, he would make a "catchy song" for a section of the film, that didn't necessarily ebb and flow with what was going on on screen. Lots of his old scores, including Batman, are basically a song popping in when something happens in the movie. Later Elfman got better at scoring, and as he got better at scoring, his themes became a little less apparent, as, he was no longer making "songs" (which are easier to remember) but attempting to flow in and out of what was happening on screen. Spider-man 2 is probably the best mix of old and new Elfman that we got.
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Jun 15, 2017 16:19
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Phylodox posted:I mean, even if you subscribe to the notion that there's this fantastical, unbridgeable gap between Whedon and Snyder as filmmakers (I don't), there's only so much Whedon can do, with almost all of the footage being shot. You're still basically getting a Zack Snyder film, but edited by Joss Whedon. It will still have Snyder's shot compositions and camera movement, it's just a matter of how they're arranged. Will it be different? Of course it will. That's unavoidable at this point. But Zack had faith in Joss, or he never would have chosen him. Besides, as Snyder himself said, it's just a movie. Go into it open to the possibility that it's going to be good and you'll almost certainly enjoy it more than if you go in convinced that Joss Whedon has infected it with his scary quips and car damage. The whole "Junkie is team Zack, Elfman is team Whedon" is weird. They're all team Justice League. Yeah and again I am not falling into the trap you are describing, I am still optimistic about the movie. But for people who are really invested in Snyder's vision, I can understand wanting as much of that as undistilled as possible.
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Jun 15, 2017 16:20
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Guy A. Person posted:Oh poo poo I also want to comment on this. Cause IANAL but I am pretty sure child support does not work the way they imply, and I feel like it perpetuates a real weird stereotype about child support where it is something that dads have to pay to see their kids when a divorce happens. Like I believe it has to do with income and custody levels, i.e. since Scott has neither he would not just randomly need to pay the mother who appears super financially comfortable. I get that they are basically using it as shorthand for "you just got out of prison and your life is in shambles and your daughter has nowhere to visit you except your criminal buddy's apartment" but it comes off in a really creepy extortive way. That actually is exactly how child support works. If you lose custody of the child, then you are still financially obligated to support the kid even if you never see them and the mom makes more than you. The mom can't even voluntarily waive the right to child support because the payments are made to the court and distributed to the beneficiary. So, even if she decided to never cash a check, then Scott still has to pay. The terms of custody arrangements are almost always agreed upon the basis of timely child support payments and abiding by any other terms of the settlement. Scott had the trifecta of "family court rules against you" traits. - No custodianship of child for extended period - Not abiding by court ordered financial obligations - No safe living space for the child
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Jun 15, 2017 16:23
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I enjoyed the Maguire Spider-Man movies when I saw them, but Elfman's theme/score didn't really do much for me. When I hear the theme now, all I recollect is Tobey's constipation face when he saves the subway train.
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Jun 15, 2017 16:24
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When Justice League is released, all Man of Steel, Avengers, Zack Snyder, and Joss Whedon arguments will merge into a singularity and this thread will be gassed. It's sad, but 100% unavoidable.
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Jun 15, 2017 16:27
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Darko posted:Themes are different than scores. Early Elfman was great at making themes, but not so great at making scores. It makes sense, as Elfman was a pop artist that made catchy songs. So, when he scored, he would make a "catchy song" for a section of the film, that didn't necessarily ebb and flow with what was going on on screen. Lots of his old scores, including Batman, are basically a song popping in when something happens in the movie. Again, I gotta disagree. I think Elfman is good at making strong themes, yeah, but also working them into a coherent musical soundtrack, kind of like John Williams. You can almost follow what's going on in the movie just based on the music (but not as strongly as William's work on Star Wars). Zimmer's work on the Batman films left me cold because it sounded kind of like a generic Zimmer score where he forgot to layer in most of the themes. And I just didn't care for his Spider-Man theme, which just kind of sounded like a generic fanfare to me.
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Jun 15, 2017 16:28
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Spider-Man 2 has the best opening credits: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkmNF1BKfKQ
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Jun 15, 2017 16:31
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FabioClone posted:When Justice League is released, all Man of Steel, Avengers, Zack Snyder, and Joss Whedon arguments will merge into a singularity and this thread will be gassed. It's sad, but 100% unavoidable. I can't wait for JL to come out and all the Snyder fans blame Whedon and start complaining "Not my JL"
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Jun 15, 2017 16:36
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thrawn527 posted:...what? Yeah, I mean two movies isn't much of a trend line, but I'm open to the idea that it will continue. Not trying to claim it's a particularly definitive pattern at this point.
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Jun 15, 2017 16:39
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Davros1 posted:I can't wait for JL to come out and all the Snyder fans blame Whedon and start complaining "Not my JL" That's only if it's bad. If it's good, all the Whedon fans will say he "saved" the movie. In reality, whether it's good or bad, it'll be the result of two mature professionals (and countless support staff) working together with mutual respect and admiration.
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Jun 15, 2017 16:40
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Phylodox posted:Again, I gotta disagree. I think Elfman is good at making strong themes, yeah, but also working them into a coherent musical soundtrack, kind of like John Williams. You can almost follow what's going on in the movie just based on the music (but not as strongly as William's work on Star Wars). Zimmer's work on the Batman films left me cold because it sounded kind of like a generic Zimmer score where he forgot to layer in most of the themes. And I just didn't care for his Spider-Man theme, which just kind of sounded like a generic fanfare to me. Forgot to layer in themes? Zimmer stuff tends to blend in more because it's tonal, but the Nolan Batman scores are always weaving themes in and out. Take these as prime examples: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ox7S0Nttbh0 And with an actual example with visuals, the score is always playing around with exactly what is going on, on screen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjffIi2Pl7M It goes from the "fishy pasta" (Lazarus) Pit score used for the pit, fails (and the score fails), hits the Thomas Wayne/Young Bruce theme when he recalls being lifted back up, and goes into the triumphant "rise" Batman theme when he succeeds. The "height" of Elfman's Batman scoring is basically just him playing a very trumphant song as a car is driving. A good song, but it's not telling a story in the same manner. There's no Vicki motif, no cave motif, the driving "theme" never comes back - it's basically just a song with a variation of the Batman theme in it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnVl_TXhoZs edit: Movie Score Fight, heh Darko fucked around with this message at 16:47 on Jun 15, 2017 |
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Jun 15, 2017 16:41
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Davros1 posted:I can't wait for JL to come out and all the Snyder fans blame Whedon and start complaining "Not my JL" or when the movies good and everyone credits Whedon
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Jun 15, 2017 16:41
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Davros1 posted:I can't wait for JL to come out and all the Snyder fans blame Whedon and start complaining "Not my JL" Let's explore this. These Snyder fans, the deviants they are apparently, how did they slight you that you want them to suffer so? They argue your points and defend movies you didn't like? They truly must be terrible wretches indeed. Come, express yourself. It's not the first time you made this exact jab at them either, so this is very personal for you.
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Jun 15, 2017 16:46
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Davros1 posted:I can't wait for JL to come out and all the Snyder fans blame Whedon and start complaining "Not my JL" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxQsXRRP1cA Oh it's already begun(video is decent, but this guy is a huge fanboy who arbitrarily hates all of Marvel and loves all of DC regardless of the actual films)
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Jun 15, 2017 16:46
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:I don't really understand the appeal of the Universal Monster movie-verse. The studio will have almost zero interest in most cases in whether the pre-established fans will buy tickets, the name brand recognition among the general population is what they'd be banking on. The perfect reaction to a movie announcement as far as they're concerned would be "Huh, I know that character, I vaguely remember enjoying that old movie/comic/cartoon years ago." The only reason the studio might invest any time in wooing people who self-identify as fans of the IP in question would be to either build positive hype or head off negative hype since pre-existing fanbases are usually too small a demographic to make much of a dent in ticket sales (with a few exceptions) but they can be horrifically vocal on social media. Having one guy on your Facebook feed repeatedly posting "Oh my god this movie is going to be awesome I can't wait!" or "The loving studio is completely loving up this loving film, sign my petition argh!!!" can be a pretty big influence on whether people bother to see the film on opening week or they go "Eh, I'll wait a bit and see how the reviews pan out..." which would often mean they'd forget about the film and go and see something else the following week. With the classic Universal monsters I guess the studio would mostly be banking on the nostalgia factor of people remembering watching the older films when they were kids.
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Jun 15, 2017 16:50
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Justice League will be the Return of the Jedi of the trilogy, for better or worse.
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Jun 15, 2017 16:50
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I'd like it to be good. my hot take since i love mos and bvs
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Jun 15, 2017 16:51
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Hello again comic thread. That fight between Ant-Man and Falcon was 
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Jun 15, 2017 16:53
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Come to think of it I actually would go watch Tim Burton's Justice League.
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Jun 15, 2017 16:55
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Darko posted:Forgot to layer in themes? Zimmer stuff tends to blend in more because it's tonal, but the Nolan Batman scores are always weaving themes in and out. Take these as prime examples: Maybe I misspoke, I don't think there are no themes, I just don't think they're particularly interesting. The main Batman theme is just a driving drumbeat with ascending and descending notes. Like you said, it's more tonal than musical. If that's what you're into, okay, but I don't think it's very interesting. It sounds like, as I said, the backing track to one of Zimmer's other scores. It's not that I don't like him. I enjoyed his work on the Pirates movies, among others. I just don't really care for his Batman stuff. quote:The "height" of Elfman's Batman scoring is basically just him playing a very trumphant song as a car is driving. A good song, but it's not telling a story in the same manner. There's no Vicki motif, no cave motif, the driving "theme" never comes back - it's basically just a song with a variation of the Batman theme in it: A better example would probably be the dancing/fighting scene at the end, with Joker's whimsical waltz interspersed with Batman's more ominous theme.
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Jun 15, 2017 16:55
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RBA Starblade posted:Come to think of it I actually would go watch Tim Burton's Justice League. don't need tim just need production designer Anton Furst
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Jun 15, 2017 16:56
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Another movie score fight: In Amazing Spider-man 2, as much as I don't remember any of this movie, the score itself has Spider-man's motif "fighting" Electro's motif through the whole fight with one overriding the other depending on what is going on (but still blending together perfectly and flowing throughout): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msoyjm3gCBM In Spider-man 2, in the most similar scene, which is one of Elfman's best, he does this somewhat, but has to revert to a lot of start/stop with the score to make it work. It works in both instances, but the former takes a bit more skill to do: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgrUa-IOf_8
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Jun 15, 2017 16:56
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RBA Starblade posted:Come to think of it I actually would go watch Tim Burton's Justice League. Counter-Point: Tim Burton hasn't made a good movie since 2003.
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Jun 15, 2017 16:57
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Counter-Point: Tim Burton hasn't made a good movie since 2003. but if he made a superhero equivalent to mars attacks
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Jun 15, 2017 16:59
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Counter-Point: Tim Burton hasn't made a good movie since 2003. I didn't say it would be a GOOD movie.
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Jun 15, 2017 17:00
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:That actually is exactly how child support works. Oh well I am just super wrong then, I was under the impression that Scott wouldn't be on the hook until he had an established income since it was based on each party's income. Thanks for the info!
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Jun 15, 2017 17:04
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Tim Burton's Justice League should be a Big Fish-style movie narrated by Aquaman. At the end, it's revealed that the Jason Mamoa look and the "badass" re-imagining of Aquaman was all a tall-tale spun by the unreliable narrator as the camera pans out to show his blonde bowl-cut and orange spandex suit as he finishes telling his story to pack of jellyfish.
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Jun 15, 2017 17:06
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MacheteZombie posted:but if he made a superhero equivalent to mars attacks I would legitimately love this.
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Jun 15, 2017 17:06
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RBA Starblade posted:Come to think of it I actually would go watch Tim Burton's Justice League. Johnny Depp as Plastic Man.
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Jun 15, 2017 17:07
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Darko posted:Another movie score fight: I mean, I just hate Zimmer's Spider-Man fanfare. quote:In Spider-man 2, in the most similar scene, which is one of Elfman's best, he does this somewhat, but has to revert to a lot of start/stop with the score to make it work. It works in both instances, but the former takes a bit more skill to do: He has a lot of abrupt shifts because the scene involves a lot of "Oh, poo poo, Doc Ock outta nowhere!" moments, but the part where Spider-Man's triumphant theme when rescuing Mary-Jane transitions into a more ominous, frantic composition while she's being sucked into the reactor thing and then to the full-on Ock theme once Otto's recovered and ready for round two is the business.
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Jun 15, 2017 17:08
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Phylodox posted:A better example would probably be the dancing/fighting scene at the end, with Joker's whimsical waltz interspersed with Batman's more ominous theme. Okay, Movie Score Fight P3: In BvS, during the Superman fight, again, the motifs are telling the whole story. Batman's motif is overriding most of the battle, Superman starts to rise a bit, and it calls back to the motif of Superman rising against the world engine in MoS, Batman still beats him up, but as Superman gets his power back, the Superman theme starts to come in...but since he becomes the aggressor, it changes entirely to the Zod/city destruction theme instead. Very subtle, but also drives the scene because there are a ton of score callbacks to emotional moments that happened before. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1y4LlY-on3k Here's the Batman vs. the Joker scene you referenced (unless your'e talking about the cathedral fight before that) which seems to be more Mickey-Mousing than really telling a story in the same manner: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptNkOgvfd1E
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Jun 15, 2017 17:11
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Guy A. Person posted:Oh well I am just super wrong then, I was under the impression that Scott wouldn't be on the hook until he had an established income since it was based on each party's income. Thanks for the info! If you are completely unable to be employed (disability is pretty much the only way), then you can get a temporary stay. If you have a job and get fired/quit it, even if it reduces your income to 0, then you are still obligated to pay. Even if the mom doesn't file for child support until the kid is 10, then you are still obligated. Child support goes to the kid and is designed to be nearly impossible to avoid. In all 50 states, both parents have financial obligations for the kid (which can include being the primary caregiver) until the kid is 18. Since Scott wasn't actually arrested for non-payment of child support, the fact that he was arrested for a felony and had back child support would mean that most courts would terminate his parental rights after his conviction and he would have to re-establish them by appealing to family court and getting up-to-date on child support/establishing a payment plan with the court.
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Jun 15, 2017 17:11
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Phylodox posted:I mean, I just hate Zimmer's Spider-Man fanfare. It's my least favorite of all the superhero fanfares he's done, but then again, I don't like that Spider-man at all either. His Electro work with Junkie XL was fantastic though.
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Jun 15, 2017 17:13
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Darko posted:Here's the Batman vs. the Joker scene you referenced (unless your'e talking about the cathedral fight before that) which seems to be more Mickey-Mousing than really telling a story in the same manner: I was talking about the previous scene, where Joker is waltzing with Vicki while Batman fights the thugs, but I do really like the music in this scene, the ominous, subtle, incomplete rendition of Batman's leitmotif as he stalks the Joker.
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Jun 15, 2017 17:22
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:I don't really understand the appeal of the Universal Monster movie-verse. Have you not seen Monster Squad???
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Jun 15, 2017 17:26
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MacheteZombie posted:or when the movies good and everyone credits Whedon The movie was good/bad despite the Whedon/Snyder parts. Circle whatever you feel like and repeat for 200 pages.
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Jun 15, 2017 17:37
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Tezcatlipoca posted:Have you not seen Monster Squad??? Monster Squad remains one of the finest movies ever made.
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Jun 15, 2017 17:38
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