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Tom Perez B/K/M? This poll is closed. |
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| B |
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77 | 25.50% |
| K |
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160 | 52.98% |
| M |
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65 | 21.52% |
| Total: | 229 votes | ||
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So how bad is this Russia/Iran sanctions thing? Probably pretty bad, yeah?
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Jun 15, 2017 18:06
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Ornedan posted:Bernie's campaign apparently didn't spot it either. Balls dropped all around. Even if they had seen it there was no way they were going to use it. Despite while the Hillary and her super fans think Bernie wasn't trying to destroy her and the party by running in a primary election that the party had already decided the winner for.
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Jun 15, 2017 18:15
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Radish posted:Even if they had seen it there was no way they were going to use it. Despite while the Hillary and her super fans think Bernie wasn't trying to destroy her and the party by running in a primary election that the party had already decided the winner for. Yup. Not talking about the emails was as much about protecting her candidacy as it was about keeping his own positive and on message. Stooping to weird rear end smear campaigns on any microscopic dirt discovered (or just making up lies from whole cloth like the Bruce Rappaport story) is a Clinton thing, it's not universal in a primary campaign.
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Jun 15, 2017 18:21
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FuriousxGeorge posted:Yup. Not talking about the emails was as much about protecting her candidacy as it was about keeping his own positive and on message. Stooping to weird rear end smear campaigns on any microscopic dirt discovered (or just making up lies from whole cloth like the Bruce Rappaport story) is a Clinton thing, it's not universal in a primary campaign. Aka the "they go low, we go high" strategy.
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Jun 15, 2017 18:23
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Trabisnikof posted:Imagine being so bad at campaigning that your entire campaign forgot to read your opponent's book where they admitted to owning slaves. Or perhaps they just didn't want to run a particularly damaging campaign against Clinton, because they didn't expect to win the primary? 
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Jun 15, 2017 19:48
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While, of course, Bernie Would Have Won, it is also important at all times to recognize that he launched his campaign expecting to be home by November at the latest, having made his grumpy last-minute bid to remind America the Left still existed en route to Hillary's coronation. It's one of the larger signs of democratic party dysfunction, really; nobody, up to and including her primary opponents, could come to grips with the party's anointed one being an incredibly weak candidate.
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Jun 15, 2017 20:01
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Trabisnikof posted:Aka the "they go low, we go high" strategy. I feel like this can work if you have a positive message to "go high" on.
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Jun 15, 2017 20:09
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Ze Pollack posted:While, of course, Bernie Would Have Won, it is also important at all times to recognize that he launched his campaign expecting to be home by November at the latest, having made his grumpy last-minute bid to remind America the Left still existed en route to Hillary's coronation. Bernie doing as well as he did should have really been the point where people inside the Clinton campaign started panicking and changing course.
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Jun 15, 2017 20:16
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I'm glad effectronica is gone forever. I hope bernie wins next time, or at least grooms a really good protege in his stead.
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Jun 15, 2017 20:45
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Futuresight posted:I feel like this can work if you have a positive message to "go high" on. Corbyn's Labour with their excellent party manifesto being a good example. The endless negative campaign against them started losing effect sharpish from when the manifesto was leaked.
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Jun 15, 2017 20:50
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Realtalk, why do these two dickheads get to own this thread? I'm guessing because the mods aren't exactly friendly with the Bernie crowd?
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Jun 15, 2017 21:27
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stone cold posted:
I find it an act of deliberate, malicious ignorance that people would ever consider such economic policy racist, when the fact of the matter is that minorities stand to have their lives improved the most, as they are disproportionately higher in extreme poverty, no medical care, rundown housing, reduced transportation, going without lunches/eating poo poo food... and every other metric where an increase in income can improve the standard of living and health.
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Jun 15, 2017 21:33
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call to action posted:Realtalk, why do these two dickheads get to own this thread? I'm guessing because the mods aren't exactly friendly with the Bernie crowd? rigged moderators
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Jun 15, 2017 21:39
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call to action posted:Realtalk, why do these two dickheads get to own this thread? I'm guessing because the mods aren't exactly friendly with the Bernie crowd? mostly because as is abundantly demonstrated by what happens in their absence, there's not much to discuss on the subject. the upper echelons of the democratic party would prefer extinction to admitting it's not 1996 anymore. having established that, the question becomes precisely why this is the case. at some point during this discussion the few people who genuinely believe "social justice is just a plot to keep the white man down" try, bless them, to explain their theory in a way that won't get team Hillary Did Nothing Wrong to jump on them shouting "WE TOLD YOU." then the cycle repeats.
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Jun 15, 2017 22:05
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Ze Pollack posted:at some point during this discussion the few people who genuinely believe "social justice is just a plot to keep the white man down" who are these people?
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Jun 15, 2017 22:12
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:So how bad is this Russia/Iran sanctions thing? Probably pretty bad, yeah? https://twitter.com/JStein_Vox/status/874468249475452928
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Jun 15, 2017 22:15
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call to action posted:Realtalk, why do these two dickheads get to own this thread? I'm guessing because the mods aren't exactly friendly with the Bernie crowd? https://forums.somethingawful.com/dictionary.php?act=3&topicid=2006
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Jun 15, 2017 22:19
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NewForumSoftware posted:who are these people? Rudatron most notably. I fully agree that Hillary partisans were pretty good at bringing up the rhetoric of social justice to shut down people like him, and in so doing paint all leftists as being cut from the same poo poo-stupid cloth. That he and a small, unrepresentative group of Extremely Online left-wingers have decided the solution to the problem is to discard all social justice rhetoric as, I quote, "constructed to screen out poors" going forwards, as opposed to learning how to speak it themselves, is an embarrassing misstep both morally and strategically, and should be called out as such. If for no other reason than "hillary clinton owned slaves" is a much more effective counterargument than "you're just saying racism is bad to keep poor people out."
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Jun 15, 2017 22:38
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call to action posted:Realtalk, why do these two dickheads get to own this thread? I'm guessing because the mods aren't exactly friendly with the Bernie crowd? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mw7_bY44LQ8
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Jun 15, 2017 22:39
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Ze Pollack posted:Rudatron most notably. I fully agree that hillary partisans were pretty good at bringing up the rhetoric of social justice to shut down people like him! Hmm, well maybe you'd like to quote the post where he said "social justice is just a plot to keep the white man down" since you put it in quotes? Also let's be honest, it's not about "social justice" it's about extreme anti-racism at any cost, including sacrificing any and all economic justice. Seriously, you're going to attempt to defend someone who unironically writes this: stone cold posted:nobody cares what you think, pal The amount of ignorance you'd have to hold to write something like this is just staggering. To do it while voting for a slaveowner during the primary is just 
NewForumSoftware fucked around with this message at 22:44 on Jun 15, 2017 |
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Jun 15, 2017 22:40
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The entire idea that you can separate racial justice from economic justice is a fraud and MLK jr was killed for figuring it out.
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Jun 15, 2017 22:45
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oh hey someone got permabanned why
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Jun 15, 2017 23:03
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NewForumSoftware posted:The entire idea that you can separate racial justice from economic justice is a fraud and MLK jr was killed for figuring it out. I think America is now hosed in such a way that suggesting wealth equality makes each respective oppressed group go "no - speak directly to us" And then the groups think they're in competition with each other when they collectively could rise from poverty together Bernie laid it out as well as anyone could have
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Jun 15, 2017 23:08
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Ze Pollack posted:Rudatron most notably. I fully agree that Hillary partisans were pretty good at bringing up the rhetoric of social justice to shut down people like him, and in so doing paint all leftists as being cut from the same poo poo-stupid cloth. That he and a small, unrepresentative group of Extremely Online left-wingers have decided the solution to the problem is to discard all social justice rhetoric as, I quote, "constructed to screen out poors" going forwards, as opposed to learning how to speak it themselves, is an embarrassing misstep both morally and strategically, and should be called out as such. In fact, I also went and suggested an alternative: anti racism as praxis, something created by continuous unified action and interdependence. That you conveniently ignore this to push your dishonest stuff, in lieu of effectronica doing it for you, suggests that you're here to just do what he did. But he's gone, and I can't let you repeat what he did. Its sort of why I hesitate to make this reply, because I think the thread can recover, now that effectronica is gone, into something worthwhile, and I don't want you derailing that. So how about this: report what you think says that to a mod. Then shut up.
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Jun 15, 2017 23:16
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NewForumSoftware posted:The entire idea that you can separate racial justice from economic justice is a fraud and MLK jr was killed for figuring it out. Agreed in full. Which is why when I see someone saying the rhetoric of social justice is designed to exclude the poor, and that progress is contingent on ignoring it going forward, an eyebrow goes up. When I learn what that person's opinions on aboriginals are, well, a couple of missing puzzle pieces slot into place. The boogeyman the Hillaryites so desperately appealed to does not exist. But when the JeffersonClays of the world don't get their internships with CAP, their habit of discarding all concerns not immediately their own as exercises in 'white guilt' do not go away. Their hearts are in the right place. They've just got a couple of bad habits left over from their pre-woke periods. And like any sheltered white person scared of social justice rhetoric, getting them to work with someone with a melanin count tends to sand off the rough edges.
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Jun 15, 2017 23:17
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ArfJason posted:oh hey someone got permabanned why repeat repeat offender
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Jun 15, 2017 23:40
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I remember when this was earthworm jim 2's "puppy love" stage
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Jun 15, 2017 23:46
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R. Guyovich posted:repeat repeat offender Pete and Repeat were in a boat. Pete fell out. Who was a cis male?
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Jun 15, 2017 23:52
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R. Guyovich posted:repeat repeat offender shouldnt permabans be reserved for criminals and illegal stuff
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Jun 15, 2017 23:58
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ArfJason posted:shouldnt permabans be reserved for criminals and illegal stuff take it to qcs if you want to defend mr death threats
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Jun 15, 2017 23:59
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NewForumSoftware posted:take it to qcs if you want to defend mr death threats ah, thats dumb, but i dont think i tdeserves permabann
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Jun 16, 2017 00:03
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ArfJason posted:ah, thats dumb, but i dont think i tdeserves permabann He's been permabanned before Like, for over a decade this has been going on
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Jun 16, 2017 00:04
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yeah but were those for like credit card fraud or murdering people over pumpkins
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Jun 16, 2017 00:06
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NewForumSoftware posted:The entire idea that you can separate racial justice from economic justice is a fraud and MLK jr was killed for figuring it out. Considering this country was founded on the backs of black slaves whose forced labor was used for the white man's profit, liberalism's desperate attempt to save the two is ahistorical schadenfreude.
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Jun 16, 2017 00:07
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Ze Pollack posted:If for no other reason than "hillary clinton owned slaves" is a much more effective counterargument than "you're just saying racism is bad to keep poor people out." Except it indicts FDR and Carter simultaneously, and to a much more significant degree. If the argument is "you supported a person who benefitted from prison labor, and thus your views on race can be safely ignored", none of us get away clean. Maybe we shouldn't tear down the entire edifice of the Democratic Party in order to relitigate a fractious primary--particularly now, given we've got an existential threat in the White House, and given the right is very happy to use our infighting to attack the party's credibility on racial justice as a whole, as they did with "Hillary owned slaves!!!" A week ago.
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Jun 16, 2017 00:10
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god forbid we criticize politicians who did horrible things in the past first Hillary, then Carter, then FDR, then MArtin luther king junior do those furious leftists have no shame?! spoiler alert: your party has no credibility, you just lost to an orange cheeto man by running a slaveowner in 2016
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Jun 16, 2017 00:12
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JeffersonClay posted:Except it indicts FDR and Carter simultaneously, and to a much more significant degree. Who gives a gently caress? Like, honestly. One is dead and the other is politically irrelevant other than making a celebrity appearance at the DNC. Indict the gently caress out of them.
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Jun 16, 2017 00:20
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Criticize politicians all you want, I don't care. Here's what I care about :NewForumSoftware posted:: your party has no credibility, you just lost to an orange cheeto man by running a slaveowner in 2016 I don't want to give the right this argument on a plate. Y'all seem regally enamored with cutting your nose to spite your face but I think it's probably a bad long term strategy. You know how republicans always fall back on the canard "democrats are the real racists"? Let's not give them a bunch of ammunition to use against us--and again, I don't just mean Hillary Clinton. If we're describing her as a slave owner then we've undermined Carter and FDR as well, and much more substantively.
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Jun 16, 2017 00:20
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JeffersonClay posted:Except it indicts FDR and Carter simultaneously, and to a much more significant degree. If the argument is "you supported a person who benefitted from prison labor, and thus your views on race can be safely ignored", none of us get away clean. Maybe we shouldn't tear down the entire edifice of the Democratic Party in order to relitigate a fractious primary--particularly now, given we've got an existential threat in the White House, and given the right is very happy to use our infighting to attack the party's credibility on racial justice as a whole, as they did with "Hillary owned slaves!!!" A week ago. The Democratic Party has been losing ground for more than a decade and, as you say, let an existential threat into the White House through sheer, mind boggling incompetence. Tearing down the entire edifice of the Democratic Party is pretty much the only good move left. You're making the exact same argument that the Blairites did when they spent most of last year trying to depose Corbyn. It didn't work for them, and it's not going to work for you.
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Jun 16, 2017 00:20
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JeffersonClay posted:I don't want to give the right this argument on a plate. Y'all seem regally enamored with cutting your nose to spite your face but I think it's probably a bad long term strategy. You know how republicans always fall back on the canard "democrats are the real racists"? Let's not give them a bunch of ammunition to use against us--and again, I don't just mean Hillary Clinton. If we're describing her as a slave owner then we've undermined Carter and FDR as well, and much more substantively. Oh my god, why care? The right will argue anything and everything, us making valid criticisms of Bad Dems doesn't "empower" the right, they WON ALREADY YOU IDIOT.
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Jun 16, 2017 00:21
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