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Freak Futanari posted:Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuullshit, the old PvP style was way better, because you had to actually think about what you were doing and which skills and cooldowns you used, instead of mashing the autocombo button until either you or the other guy mashing his own autocombo button keels over dead. The only people new PvP is better for is people who somehow failed to grasp that MMOs, in fact, sometimes expect you to press several - and sometimes even many! - buttons I think there's a reason why way, way more people go to MOBAs for their PVP then WoW and XIV, and the simple fact is that having a million buttons and complex rotations is usually not very fun when all it takes to gently caress you up is a single stun or CC ability contributes a significant amount. Complex rotations can be fun in PVE since its actually balanced around them. Old PVP felt completely overwhelming to try to get into. On top of the million skills i already was using, I now probably had uses for a bunch of job skills i never use, plus there was pvp skills I probably should have used too, but I didnt even have space on my bars/binds for. gently caress that. I'd much rather play pvp with distilled classes so I can focus on the action.
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Jul 4, 2017 14:47
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Truga posted:I'm glad they'll roll the one button per combo thing into pve in the next expansion. Was this confirmed? Awesome if true. My hotbars are gonna be so clean and smooth
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Jul 4, 2017 14:48
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Any idea where that cool new mount drops from?
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Jul 4, 2017 14:49
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Hm, Feast EXP more or less doubled. 300k for a 5:12 win. Not as good as frontlines, but much better than the like... 150k in the mid 60s it was previously.
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Jul 4, 2017 14:51
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Truga posted:TBH I don't mind having 3000 buttons to press, I just think the main rotation combo thing shouldn't be more than a few buttons (which is why I play BLM when I DPS, where I push 2-3 GCD buttons during fire phase and 3 during ice phase). There are definitely some places where buttons could be consolidated without even remotely reducing a job's complexity. Red Mage is an obvious example. Just like in PvP, Impact should just replace Jolt II when you have a proc--there's no reason you'd ever cast Jolt II if you have an Impactful proc, and Impact is functionally just Jolt III, so they might as well. The current melee combo could functionally be one button, too, though I think I'd prefer if they added some sort of branch to it, like one other ability you might use sometimes at one of the stages of the combo, which would mean you couldn't just condense it into one button. Samurai's combos could be condensed, too. They all start with the same weaponskill, but after that, they're linear--for example, if you do Jinpu, you want to follow it with Gekko, no exceptions. It's not like Monk, where your stances open up multiple options per combo stage. So they might as well make Jinpu and Gekko one button, and the same for Shifu and Kasha. Some abilities already work like that in some contexts, one ability transforming into another under certain contexts, so it definitely wouldn't be a foreign concept to PvE.
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Jul 4, 2017 14:55
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Harrow posted:There are definitely some places where buttons could be consolidated without even remotely reducing a job's complexity. The Jolt II -> Impact thing makes so much sense and Ruin/Ruin III already work like that with Ruin IV, so I'm not sure why it doesn't.
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Jul 4, 2017 14:57
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Freak Futanari posted:Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuullshit, the old PvP style was way better, because you had to actually think about what you were doing and which skills and cooldowns you used, instead of mashing the autocombo button until either you or the other guy mashing his own autocombo button keels over dead. The only people new PvP is better for is people who somehow failed to grasp that MMOs, in fact, sometimes expect you to press several - and sometimes even many! - buttons Heavy thrust.png --> Battle litany icon1.png --> Impulse drive.png --> Blood for blood.png Internal release.png --> Disembowel.png --> Leg sweep.png Blood of the dragon icon1.png --> Chaos thrust.png --> Power surge.png --> Fang and claw icon1.png or Wheeling thrust icon1.png --> Jump.png --> Phlebotomize.png --> Dragonfire dive.png --> True thrust.png --> Spineshatter dive.png --> Vorpal thrust.png --> Life surge.png --> Geirskogul icon1.png --> Full thrust.png --> Fang and claw icon1.png or Wheeling thrust icon1.png
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Jul 4, 2017 14:58
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The raid is excellent, I was fully expecting some visually monotonous trash like Alex but this is so beautiful and exciting.
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Jul 4, 2017 14:59
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i don't trust them to consolidate the combo actions for jobs where the combo doesn't add anything meaningful without also reaching too far and consolidating actions for all the jobs
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Jul 4, 2017 14:59
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enmity changes Flash: 1200 Potency (Doubled from 600 potency) Savage Blade: 6.3x multiplier (Up from 4.2) Skull Sunder: 6.3x (Up from 4.2) Overpower: 10x (Doubled from 5) Spinning Slash: 5.25x (Up from 3.5) Unleash: 20.6x (Doubled from 10.3)
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Jul 4, 2017 15:07
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Can anyone remember how to fix that unable to download patch files thing? (PC) This  e: Deleting .exe did it. Always figure this out moments after asking Josuke Higashikata fucked around with this message at 15:12 on Jul 4, 2017 |
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Jul 4, 2017 15:08
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Freak Futanari posted:For Monks, the indignities never end You're wrong.
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Jul 4, 2017 15:08
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queeb posted:enmity changes
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Jul 4, 2017 15:10
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Any idea how much they nerfed PVP exp by?
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Jul 4, 2017 15:10
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What ilvl is necessary to really contribute in the raid? I'm not 70 yet but I'm curious how long after I hit 70 I can jump in, at least in normal mode.
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Jul 4, 2017 15:11
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Harrow posted:What ilvl is necessary to really contribute in the raid? I'm not 70 yet but I'm curious how long after I hit 70 I can jump in, at least in normal mode. i hit 70 yesterday and a few dungeon drops + verity accessories already got me over i295, it shouldn't take you long at all just remember to pick up your af from your job quest
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Jul 4, 2017 15:13
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Freak Futanari posted:For Monks, the indignities never end it is indeed much more strategic to hit 1 2 3 4 with 2 different ogcd's as opposed to the childish 1 1 1 1 with only one ogcd
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Jul 4, 2017 15:13
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Augus posted:Was this confirmed? Awesome if true. My hotbars are gonna be so clean and smooth It wasn't but I honestly don't see them doing it, seeing how much people love it in PVP. I was saying in discord earlier, I really like the monk combos idea, but I just find it so drat annoying that the base rotation is playing between 6 buttons constantly, when it should really be two: rear attack and flank attack, and both have the correct skill depending on your current stance. I'd honestly macro that long ago, if macros weren't garbage for GCD skills. Hell, I probably will once I finally hit max level with it, just not with the ingame macro solution. Josuke Higashikata posted:Can anyone remember how to fix that unable to download patch files thing? (PC) Check your IE proxy settings, they should be on off/autodetect. If that's fine, flush DNS. If that doesn't help either, no idea.
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Jul 4, 2017 15:13
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ugh im not sure what order to go in to pick up the gears and whatever tokens from omega
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Jul 4, 2017 15:14
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Verranicus posted:Any idea how much they nerfed PVP exp by? Feast is better in almost all scenarios except losing super fast Frontlines are almost always worse, something like a 40% nerf if you come in third now, which averages out to a 15-20% nerf depending on game length and if you win or lose more often.
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Jul 4, 2017 15:16
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Harrow posted:What ilvl is necessary to really contribute in the raid? I'm not 70 yet but I'm curious how long after I hit 70 I can jump in, at least in normal mode. I think exdr has an ilvl req of 280 and drops 300, with Omega dropping 320 gear, I'm guessing it has a req. of 300. I assume a 300+ weapon and left side gear is enough to pull your weight. I was able to queue exdr when I hit 70, but getting to 300 took like a week of doing exdr each day, but i basically saw no casting left side gear drop the entire time.
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Jul 4, 2017 15:17
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Verranicus posted:You're wrong. No, you're the one who's wrong actually. Farg posted:it is indeed much more strategic to hit 1 2 3 4 with 2 different ogcd's as opposed to the childish 1 1 1 1 with only one ogcd Different skills that do different things = being able to do more different things. Less skills that do less different things = being able to do less different things. Being able to do more different things = more strategic because you get to decide which of the different things is best suited to the current situation. This isn't rocket science, though i guess for some people it might as well be
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Jul 4, 2017 15:23
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Oxyclean posted:I think exdr has an ilvl req of 280 and drops 300, with Omega dropping 320 gear, I'm guessing it has a req. of 300. I assume a 300+ weapon and left side gear is enough to pull your weight. Omega's req. is actually only 295, for what that's worth. It's easily doable at that rank too, I didn't have any good verity pieces or ex primal pieces, all I got was the verity weapon and a bunch of random non-essential-but-cheap verity bits to pump up the ilvl score. Infinity Gaia fucked around with this message at 15:34 on Jul 4, 2017 |
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Jul 4, 2017 15:23
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Freak Futanari posted:No, you're the one who's wrong actually. Except most of your "different skills" you use is the main rotation combo, which you need to push in order because otherwise it's super bad.
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Jul 4, 2017 15:25
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queeb posted:ugh im not sure what order to go in to pick up the gears and whatever tokens from omega Looks like you need to pick legs from v3.0 and chest from v4.0 if you want to collect a full set in a reasonable amount of time, other stuff is more flexible edit: look at this helpful thing: SwissArmyDruid posted:They are re-using the old drop table from Alexander, so have this handy goon-created table.
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Jul 4, 2017 15:25
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Freak Futanari posted:Different skills that do different things = being able to do more different things. Less skills that do less different things = being able to do less different things. Being able to do more different things = more strategic because you get to decide which of the different things is best suited to the current situation. This isn't rocket science, though i guess for some people it might as well be I certainly agree with the idea of a diverse tool kit, but needing complex rotations to do your damage/utility seems unnecessary. But I kind of disagree that being able to do more is inherently more strategic. Maybe in a 1v1 sense, but in a team game each person/role should be bringing something different to the table, but perhaps the game moved to far in the other direction.
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Jul 4, 2017 15:29
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In honor of omega normal and since I'll be doing a full blind run with my static this evening, let's  about role actions!Specifically, control actions. Since most of the defensives and refreshes have different effects from different roles, there's not a lot of overlap, just choosing which ones to take depending on the boss damage type and party makeup. Interrupts: Tanks; stun 25s cd, silence 30s cd Melee; stun 40s cd Range; stun 25s cd MELEE, silence 30s cd RANGED Job options: Holy, Shield Bash, 1 ilm punch, Shoulder Tackle, Fluid Aura, Holmgang? These are the classes with interrupts available, previous fights suggest that the extra 15s on the melee stun might not be that big a deal, big interrupt mechanics just don't show up that often. Generally the tanks will probably be the go to for interrupts, since they're next to the boss anyway. If its an add situation ranged might be better suited, since they can possibly run over and interrupt without losing a gcd. As for control, Ranged has a heavy and bind off the GCD, Casters have a heavy ON the GCD. And the, uh, tri-bind equivalent they all have. Ranged definitely wins the day here, unless this raid tier we suddenly have a big mob of enemies that absolutely must be binded or else. Presuming, of course, if any of this is necessary at all. If nothing needs control or interrupting, well, second wind isn't terrible.
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Jul 4, 2017 15:31
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queeb posted:enmity changes I ran Haukke Manor and Halitali as PLD this morning. Before this patch, it was pretty easy for DPS (especially RDM) to rip threat away at those levels. It was rock-solid today, a couple of flashes and nothing was even thinking about escaping.
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Jul 4, 2017 15:41
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Truga posted:Except most of your "different skills" you use is the main rotation combo. Okay, look. Let me try to demonstrate what i mean with an example. Let's say that i'm playing MNK in pre-SB PvP. First off, the idea of a main rotation flies out the window, since this is PvP and you can't reasonably expect to be able to always have somebody in front of you to punch. So you need to put more thought into each move in your combo, and whether the buffs/debuffs are worth applying right now. If you're just harassing the enemy team without currently focusing someone down, then you might want to spread some Dragon Kicks, One Ilm Punch off some buffs (knock the Aetherflow off the SCH for extra Fun), and maybe put some demolishes on people too. If you start getting focused, hit Fists of Earth, and if necessary Fetter Ward and Purify to make sure you can back to your healers to get patched up. Once your team DOES focus someone down, hit Fists of Fire and start hitting them with the upfront damage combo skills. Throw some stuns in there to keep them rooted in place, and if they build stun resistance and try to make a run for it, catch up with them with either Sprint or Fists of Wind (which was actually really handy in pre-SB PvP for catching up with people, since meleeing someone who's moving away from you could be pretty frustrating). If melee DPS start focusing down someone on your team, hit Axe Kick to pacify them, and take advantage of the free GL3 to do a Tornado Kick beforehand, if you already had GL3 at the time. Make sure to Somersault the enemy healers on CD to keep their spell speed debuffed as much as possible. Whenever Perfect Balance is up, use it to either build GL3 if you're about to burst someone, or to spread some One Ilm Punches if people on the enemy team just used their cooldowns. When your LB is ready, make sure Fetter Ward is up before using it. Now, let's say i'm playing MNK in SB PvP. Use your Demolish combo on the target once, then repeat your Bootshine combo while using Somersault as many times as your TP allows, then use Forbidden Chakra. Use Riddle of Earth if people start punching you, even though it won't help you very much, and i guess use Riddle of Fire if you're for some reason only going to be able to hit someone very rarely. And that's just one job. Like i said earlier, some jobs suffered more than others, but i don't think removing this many layers of strategy makes for very compelling gameplay. It reduces the barrier for entry at the cost of putting the skill ceiling and the skill floor at pretty much the same place.
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Jul 4, 2017 15:42
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They removing a bunch of utility skills has *zero* effect on the fact that you need to do your main combo rotation in a specific order, though. I'm talking about combos being rolled into a single button, you're talking about utility skills.
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Jul 4, 2017 15:46
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That's a lot of words about a terrible PVP system. Almost as long as the wait to get in a PVP match back then.
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Jul 4, 2017 15:48
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Minrad posted:Feast is better in almost all scenarios except losing super fast Glad I got the Garo mount from Frontlines while queues were still instant, I guess.
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Jul 4, 2017 15:49
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I never understood why people cared that much about tank threat in low level dungeons. It's usually not a big deal if the DPS or healer ends up tanking a loose mob unless it happens during a big pull
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Jul 4, 2017 15:49
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Obligatum VII posted:Unfortunately there's no central repository of class guides. There's a google doc that I know of but that was for pre-SB BLM. You don't F2 in BLM aoe rotation ever after 50 Failboattootoot posted:There's no functional difference tbh. Says me as I sit here glowering at shitass potd. I actually prefer tearing around killing FATEs while waiting for my dungeon queue to pop over spamming potd or pvp Nostalgia4Infinity posted:Quoting this for future reference It's not right tho Renegret posted:Triple casting flares is the funniest loving thing in this game. It's less funny when I forget to pop diversion beforehand but it's worth it. Yes, F2 is bad and you should never use it Ferrinus posted:I have, and on four or five enemies, your potency/second is marginally higher if you skip the F2s, while on six+enemies a pair of F2s mildly wins out. P sure it's more like 20 enemies for F2 to be worth it
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Jul 4, 2017 15:51
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Fortuitous Bumble posted:I never understood why people cared that much about tank threat in low level dungeons. It's usually not a big deal if the DPS or healer ends up tanking a loose mob unless it happens during a big pull 
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Jul 4, 2017 15:57
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Mmo pvp with a billion buttons is insanely hot garbage and im glad it's 3 buttons now. It's more about what you can see they have job-wise and positioning-wise rather than what cooldowns they might have, and that's good.
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Jul 4, 2017 15:57
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I prefer the new pvp system because it lets me focus more on situational awareness and tactical decisions.
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Jul 4, 2017 15:58
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He's not wrong.
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Jul 4, 2017 15:59
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Kalenn Istarion posted:You don't F2 in BLM aoe rotation ever after 50 Whats the 60-68 AOE roation look like? Fortuitous Bumble posted:I never understood why people cared that much about tank threat in low level dungeons. It's usually not a big deal if the DPS or healer ends up tanking a loose mob unless it happens during a big pull It feels bad not being able to do the one thing your role is supposed to do?
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Jul 4, 2017 15:59
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Fister Roboto posted:He's not wrong. i think he is but he's less wrong than the pvp person with a homestuck avatar in 2017
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Jul 4, 2017 16:00
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