|
skasion posted:Jadzia wasn't impossible to write well, they just didn't do it mostly. They figured that "she's possessed by a worm which contains the souls of past worm buddies" was enough of a character hook, and while it is cool, it doesn't work well as a basis for a character for a couple reasons. It's this, at least for me. She essentially has 0 flaws, and any flaws she has are written off as "Another personality used to have this flaw!" Characters with no flaws are boring.
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2017 15:09
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 11, 2024 16:32 |
|
|
vermin posted:This is a stupid question, but what the hell is going on with their hair? Not everyone keeps their genitals in the same place, Captain.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2017 15:11
|
|
|
WampaLord posted:It's this, at least for me. She essentially has 0 flaws, and any flaws she has are written off as "Another personality used to have this flaw!" Characters with no flaws are boring. It's too bad she wasn't on Discovery -- the first Star Trek where characters have flaws!
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2017 15:20
|
|
|
Jada was a super high achieving science student and athlete because that's what you have to be to get into the symbiote program and a Starfleet chief science officer, which is the highest position available in the science division. Shame they didn't do anything with that.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2017 15:22
|
|
|
it doesn't help that Terry Farrell couldn't pull off the scant material she was handed for Jadzia either. I kinda of wish they'd just started the series with the Ezri character. They didn't have enough time in season 7 to build her, but it was a very interesting starting point. I think Terry's best episodes as Jadzia were either the wedding episode where's she just completely over Martok's wife's bullshit or in The Ship where she's being pushed to her limits of tolerance along with everyone else and people are popping off and mad about everything.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2017 15:30
|
|
|
I'll be honest: even if Jadzia wasn't the most fleshed-out character, I liked her more than Ezri. With Jadzia I felt like her character had the gravity of someone who had lived several lifetimes. Then Ezri comes along and she's like a little girl playing dress-up in her mother's clothes. It's not that Nicole DeBoer did a bad job with the character at all; Ezri was just too "Golly...I'm just a girl trying to figure things out" for me after seasons of Jadzia being a confident, self-possessed woman.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2017 15:33
|
|
|
MillennialVulcan posted:it doesn't help that Terry Farrell couldn't pull off the scant material she was handed for Jadzia either. I kinda of wish they'd just started the series with the Ezri character. They didn't have enough time in season 7 to build her, but it was a very interesting starting point. When I was younger I probably thought it was one of the ones where we see a lot of spots. Now I think it's the one where Dukat surprises her in the orb temple.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2017 15:33
|
|
|
Inescapable Duck posted:IIRC, her actor regretted leaving the show, because she was 'basically a superhero'. Terry Farrell never regretted leaving, because she loving hated Berman. Her whole issue was that Dax wasn't doing jack on the show and was basically window dressing at that point (as someone else said, her role was "Worf's love interest"), so she offered to take a part-time role in the seventh season, appearing in half the episodes. Her rationale was that the show had introduced so, so many recurring characters that it would be ridiculously easy to write around her absences. Berman basically told her to go to hell, and also made sure that Ira Behr was never told of Farrell's part-time request. Farrell had no interest at all in doing another full season, so she just let her contract expire.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2017 15:48
|
|
|
I was born in late 1989 and my parents let me hang around and watch Trek with them for nearly as long as my working memory goes back. I watched DS9 episodes alongside them when they first came out and I remember liking them, but since we didn't own them on home video I didn't watch DS9 again until high school. So in my mind there are two DS9s, the one that exists, and the one I remember from my early childhood. The latter contains episodes and plot points that I later found out never existed or were amalgamations of DS9 with other Treks or indeed other live action shows I was watching at the time (and given my age that was a wide range, from Barney to Power Rangers to that show about a girl who turned into Capri Sun) I can remember specific episodes from season 6 and 7, but the earlier parts of the show were a total blur and indeed when rewatching the show I found I couldn't remember ever having watched the majority of them, though sometimes I had a moment of "holy poo poo, I remember this scene!" Probably those are from earlier episodes being re-run during this period since my working memory doesn't really go back much farther than 1994. It's funny now to think back because the nuances of what anyone was talking about went over my head, but despite not really getting what was going on, I loved sitting on the couch with my mom and dad and watching it. Not long after DS9 ended we moved to another state and didn't get UPN or any channel that syndicated DS9 so my impressions of the show were frozen from there on out until I was in high school and DS9 reruns started showing on Spike TV or whatever it's called now. The characters are illustrated clearly enough that the impressions they left on me as a very young child turned out to be the same impressions I had on rewatch: O'Brien is good and nice and smart, Worf is funny and cool, Kira is pretty and tough, Quark is ugly and funny, Odo is weird and funny, Sisko is like my dad. There were two characters who didn't quite match the recollections of my early childhood: Bashir and Dax. Bashir mainly because in my recollections was "nice and super smart," and if I saw the earlier seasons, whether first airing or on reruns, when I was old enough to form any kind of memories of them, his being arrogant and annoying flew right over my head. (In this regard TNG matched my age-appropriate shows for having a cast that was intended to essentially be role models!) I ended up really enjoying his character arc on second watch in part from being so surprised by what he was really like. Now as for Dax, hahaha, my initial impression of her was "Dax is pretty and has cool tattoos." The symbiote thing went completely over my head. Also, I knew she was married to Worf and at one point cut her hair. I didn't pick up on the names Jadzia or Ezri at all, didn't pick up that the character wasn't human, and in fact didn't even pick up on the fact that the actress had changed. Random other factoid, for years I had a memory of the episode Rascals as having been a DS9 episode with O'Brien, Keiko, Kira, and Guinan being turned into kids. When I was very little I remember really liking that episode. Kid me had bad taste though, when I was 5 I liked Alexander too.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2017 16:18
|
|
|
Xibanya posted:that show about a girl who turned into Capri Sun Good post, but I have to give this a 
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2017 16:22
|
|
|
The Bloop posted:Good post, but I have to give this a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Secret_World_of_Alex_Mack
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2017 16:29
|
|
|
Wait, how has this thread never come up with a "Buy me some peanuts and Cracker Dax" pun from Take Me Out to the Holosuite?
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2017 16:31
|
|
|
Jadzia should just have been more flawed, the worm with all its experience would have been the perfect metaphor for the burden of cultural and family expectations, a superego-organ, making the host an insecure overachiever. Ezri had more of that, but they ran out of time.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2017 16:32
|
|
|
Jadzia's best episode is definitely the wedding one where she gets into a spite-and-holier-than-thou-off with Martok's wife and has to swallow her pride to get what she wants. Also the USS Party Ship Sutherland. Ezri's problem is that she has the same problem as Jadzia but instead of being attached to a confident and outgoing personality its attached to someone who seems like they're just barely hanging on most of the time. I still do kind of wobble back and forth but even with Jadzia rarely getting anything interesting to do besides occasionally not being quite as a confident and outgoing person her interactions with the rest of the cast are just so much better than Ezri's. See nearly everything between Ezri and Worf being just painful to watch Like a lot of things Star Trek if we had seen Curzon to Jadzia to Ezri with some actual thought behind it that would have been really interesting and just one more feather in DS9's cap.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2017 16:34
|
|
|
The Ezri/Garak plotline justifies her entire existence.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2017 16:35
|
|
|
Just watched The Mind's Eye. The crew should have known something was wrong the moment Geordi said he hooked up with a woman.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2017 16:35
|
|
|
WampaLord posted:The Ezri/Garak plotline justifies her entire existence. And this scene. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfNe2uv-bHs
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2017 16:58
|
|
|
Kibayasu posted:Also the USS Party Ship Sutherland. Captained by Shelby from BOBW, no less.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2017 17:03
|
|
|
Lord Hydronium posted:Just watched The Mind's Eye. The crew should have known something was wrong the moment Geordi said he hooked up with a woman. They just assumed he was making it up. "Sure Geordi, good for you." data_laughing.avi
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2017 17:12
|
|
|
Honestly, Dax has several lifetimes of experience, she should be something akin to the Doctor (Who, not hologram). "Ohhh! It's an Iconian gateway! I haven't seen one of these for, ohh, 500 years?"
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2017 19:35
|
|
|
The_Doctor posted:Honestly, Dax has several lifetimes of experience, she should be something akin to the Doctor (Who, not hologram). "Ohhh! It's an Iconian gateway! I haven't seen one of these for, ohh, 500 years?" They did have a bit of fun with that in Trials and Tribble-ations, when she mentioned that a past Dax had boned Bones.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2017 20:00
|
|
|
Old Pine Cone Head
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2017 02:37
|
|
|
STAR TREK: DISCOVERY Hired Fact Checkers and Superfans to Ensure Canon Adherencequote:The new Star Trek series Discovery is only a few months away from launching, and many longtime Trekkers have been worried that this prequel show might not adhere to the fifty plus years of continuity already established. After all—based on the trailers so far—the show, which is set a decade before the five year mission of Captain Kirk and Mister Spock on the Enterprise, looks very different aesthetically to anything in the classic series. Will CBS make sure that there are no major continuity contradictions to established Trek canon?
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2017 03:15
|
|
|
believe nothing and pirate the pilot LLAP
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2017 03:25
|
|
|
Man, why even bother at this point? Just admit that you wanted to take it in a different direction. "Spock, did I ever tell you about Cap--I mean, Commander Sonequa Martin Green? I raised her from an early age; she was the first black woman with a first name in Starfleet, despite the fact that I think Starfleet is an unworthy career for a scientist to pursue, and commanded the starship Discovery, despite the fact that Starfleet thinks such a thing is literally unimaginable and systematically excludes women from command. That's why I never mentioned her before. Still, she was a good friend."
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2017 03:28
|
|
|
At least they're paying lip service to it I guess, but I'll believe it when I see it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2017 03:58
|
|
|
What they didn't say is that behind the canon expert whose job was to say "no", there was an executive producer or something whose job was to say "gently caress you we're doing it anyway"
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2017 04:01
|
|
|
I've heard a lot of mixed opinions on the Voyager episode The Void (I personally liked it, not the best but was fine) and on a recent rewatching I re-remembered how much I liked this dude: Cool makeup way beyond the usual forehead dealio, he rocks the cool collected yet vicious guy...and drat that jacket is noice.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2017 04:02
|
|
|
cheetah7071 posted:What they didn't say is that behind the canon expert whose job was to say "no", there was an executive producer or something whose job was to say "gently caress you we're doing it anyway" Or to say to the writers "okay, come up with a handwave for this" see: the Enterprise episode with the Ferengi
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2017 04:04
|
|
|
Shibawanko posted:Jadzia should just have been more flawed, the worm with all its experience would have been the perfect metaphor for the burden of cultural and family expectations, a superego-organ, making the host an insecure overachiever. Ezri had more of that, but they ran out of time. Jadzia's best moments were when she was trolling people and generally being a brat. If they just had her as a sarcastic troll goading people on the whole time it'd be great. It'd work with pretty much every person on that show except for Sisko, who would have been used to it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2017 04:34
|
|
|
After reading that article, it's almost guaranteed that the ST:D writers room smells like a paper mill.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2017 04:49
|
|
|
Trip report: DS9 season 3, episode 5 "Second Skin" You know, I'm not a violent person by nature, so it's amazing how often my solution to being thrown into a situation like Kira's here (made up as a Cardassian, part of a psyop) would be just to find a sharp or blunt object and try to kill everyone involved. Perhaps I took inspiration from Starbuck.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2017 04:53
|
|
|
Good way to get yourself killed.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2017 04:55
|
|
|
Arglebargle III posted:Good way to get yourself killed. I'd be working under the assumption I don't have long to live anyway, IRL it's not wise to count on the constant last-minute rescue missions that happen in Star Trek. O'Brien's trial on Cardassia wasn't even that long ago.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2017 05:05
|
|
|
Arglebargle III posted:Good way to get yourself killed. Yeah, but Kira has a much better record of killing Cardies than I do
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2017 05:34
|
|
|
skasion posted:Starfleet thinks such a thing is literally unimaginable and systematically excludes women from command. Speaking of, I just rewatched Turnabout Intruder a few weeks ago to finish out TOS, and  at the trial scene.Janice-in-Kirk's-body is like "Spock, even if you could prove that James Kirk's mind, psyche, all his skills and memories and personality, are all in this woman's body, what are you going to do, make it captain? Pffft he doesn't even have a cock-and-balls, you'd never take orders from that and Starfleet would never let you", and Spock doesn't even contest it. He's just like "yeah okay but you shouldn't be captain either". E: One thing I did like about that episode is it's the only time when someone says "but it's impossible" and someone else points out "uh this wouldn't even be the 10th most impossible thing we've seen this year". E2: Also bodysnatching technology had been used on Kirk and Spock before in front of tons of witnesses so it was doubly weird that anyone doubted it could happen, although Spock didn't bring up that specific incident at least he pointed out that the crew sees way weirder poo poo on the reg VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 06:49 on Jul 14, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2017 06:40
|
|
|
turn left hillary!! noo posted:Trip report: DS9 season 3, episode 5 "Second Skin"
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2017 07:14
|
|
|
Second Skin is weird because in previous episodes we've seen that a cosmetically altered Cardassian still lights up Cardassian on a simple medical scan. That just happened when that dude tried to frame O'Brien for war crimes, so there was no reason to ever suppose Kira could be convinced she's a Cardassian with false memories because it would have shown up. But even if they counted on the strangeness of the situation to confuse Kira enough that she didn't remember that fact, since the real target was her dissident legate "father" again any tricorder would have told him right away it was a scam, hell not even that, a thermometer would have revealed she has the wrong body temperature.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2017 07:58
|
|
|
Had DS9 already started when they cast Gul Dukat as the poker player in Time's Arrow?
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2017 08:24
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 11, 2024 16:32 |
|
|
VitalSigns posted:Second Skin is weird because in previous episodes we've seen that a cosmetically altered Cardassian still lights up Cardassian on a simple medical scan. That just happened when that dude tried to frame O'Brien for war crimes, so there was no reason to ever suppose Kira could be convinced she's a Cardassian with false memories because it would have shown up. People can ignore mountains of evidence against things they desperately want to believe.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2017 08:35
|
|
