|
Astroman posted:
The stories get lots of weird minutiae right but completely miss the broad strokes of what these events actually did. And it's picked up a lot of insane baggage from more modern events. Like, it starts out with the Japanese drone strike on Pearl Harbor. The pilots commit seppuku as their drones are destroyed. Then America's response is a bunch of pregnant Sonic the Hedgehog fanart and freedom sushi. I'm picturing FDR on an aircraft carrier with a huge mission accomplished banner in 1943.
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2017 16:48
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 15:55 |
|
|
remusclaw posted:Yeah, unfortunately for Trek it already sloughed off most of it's casual fanbase years ago and I don't know how much the relative success of JJ Trek did to replace them. I mean, people went to see those movies, but seeing a film every few years is just a couple hours out of your day, once. A TV show, much less one that requires you to buy it, is much more demanding of your time and weirdly enough to your money as well. How much is HBO go? Because CBS ALL Access is not worth what HBO GO is. One show will not change that. At the end of the day, they're just typical Hollywood blockbusters. They're kinda forgettable. They were sort of here today and gone tomorrow. People saw them, went "that was OK" and went on with their lives. That, and there seems to have been way less buzz and hype around them than Marvel and Star Wars. Because while Marvel and Star Wars are getting tiring at this point, a huge number of people seem to really still like them. The general public's reaction to JJTrek just feels like a large resounding "meh." GET IN THE ROBOT fucked around with this message at 16:56 on Jul 19, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2017 16:53
|
|
|
Unbelievably Fat Man posted:Oh my God. I want a reboot of World War 2 so bad now. Everyone has modern technology. All the different countries have to be forehead aliens. The Soviets are literally just a diesel punk version of the Borg. -Blitzkrieg is now a 'Shock and Awe' campaign -Japanese justify Pearl Harbor as a 'Preemptive Strike' -Internment camps are now pretty much Guantanamo Bay -US tries to prevent Russia from acquiring Weapons of Mass Destruction -Enemy soldiers called 'terrorists' -In reference to Hitler "He's not a politician, he means what he says, and at least he's honest" knowing look at camera
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2017 16:57
|
|
|
I know the Kamikaze were addressed in the initial post but recasting them as suicide bombers is much more apt I think.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2017 17:00
|
|
|
Astroman posted:Just a question--is caring about continuity and history as childish as stuff like going to cons, cosplaying, collecting merch and figures? Or are those forms of fandom more mature and acceptable? Is this a trick question? Because, yeah, those are up there on the as-you-get-older-that-should-stop-that checklist. While pretty dumb otherwise, I remember being mildly impressed with the Ferengi episode of Enterprise, where they made the laser whip actually look kinda cool.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2017 17:05
|
|
|
MisterBibs posted:Is this a trick question? Because, yeah, those are up there on the as-you-get-older-that-should-stop-that checklist. So what should people do instead?
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2017 17:12
|
|
|
Grand Fromage posted:Cardassians are the best. The TVtropes joke of their racial trait is being magnificent bastards is about the only thing I remember from that site. I know you know this, I'm just quoting this for context on returning to Cardassian-chat, but they're so much more than that. Their culture is interesting for highly valuing beauty and great creativity within traditional structures. I like their trait of particularly valuing skillful use of speech, it reminds me of Feste in Shakespeare's Twelfth Night: "A foolish word was but a toy." As a culture they have a sense of dignity but they aren't a "face" culture like the IRL Chinese or in-universe Klingons. They obviously have a lot of elements of various real world cultures, but the one that as a whole they remind me of the most would be Austria-Hungary. (Yeah the Cardassians are supposed to have been like the Nazis to Bajor, but their history is not very Nazi-Germany-Like. And Austria-Hungary had plenty of innocent blood on its hands.) Compare Klingons. Like, OK, they are a feudal "face" culture (that means honor is a huge deal) and they are obsessed with battle. Like, what do they do all day? Is nearly all the Klingon empire either attending to their estates or a serf? It seems a bit one-dimensional, even with neat character like Martok. How would a Klingon tailor think of their job? How would they see their place in the bigger scheme of things? I can imagine how a Ferengi tailor would see their role in society; I don't even need to imagine a Cardassian one, as we got the very best example  , I suppose a Vulcan one makes sense "Society needs clothes and I provide the greatest utility by making them, so it's only logical  " ...I don't even know wtf a Romulan one would be like. Yeah I could imagine a Bajoran one but I don't know how they'd be appreciably different from one from Federation culture.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2017 17:14
|
|
|
Inescapable Duck posted:So what should people do instead? Only consume media higher than a B rating on The AV Club. Bonus points if it's mentioned on NPR.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2017 17:15
|
|
|
Romulan culture seems almost less well detailed than Federation culture.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2017 17:16
|
|
|
vermin posted:Only consume media higher than a B rating on The AV Club. Bonus points if it's mentioned on NPR. While sitting in a straight backed chair (no cushions) and keeping silent. Use the commercial breaks to think about how millennials are ruining everything.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2017 17:19
|
|
|
remusclaw posted:Romulan culture seems almost less well detailed than Federation culture. Romulan culture is mostly based around shoulder pads.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2017 17:21
|
|
|
And I assume the barber shop.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2017 17:22
|
|
|
TNG era Romulans are not at all interesting and the fact that they are obviously different-looking from Vulcans now is stupid as hell. The writers never really committed to any interpretation of the concept -- they're sort of like Vulcans with another religion/philosophy, but not really because they don't have any religion or philosophy apart from "be a dick"; they're sort of like Romans I guess, but not really in any substantive way, they just use Latin titles on occasion; they're kind of like a police state, but the Cardassian police state is way more detailed and effectively presented. In shortWheat Loaf posted:Romulan culture is mostly based around shoulder pads.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2017 17:27
|
|
|
Yeah I think it would be better both from a scientific and storytelling POV if Romulans and Vulcans were the same species but with hugely different cultures.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2017 17:31
|
|
|
Xibanya posted:Yeah I think it would be better both from a scientific and storytelling POV if Romulans and Vulcans were the same species but with hugely different cultures. I thought that kinda was what they were. Romulans split off form Vulcans hundreds of thousands of years ago and stayed with their war-like ways, while Vulcans subscribed to Surak's philosophy of non-violence and suppression of emotion.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2017 17:33
|
|
|
F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:I thought that kinda was what they were. Romulans split off form Vulcans hundreds of thousands of years ago and stayed with their war-like ways, while Vulcans subscribed to Surak's philosophy of non-violence and suppression of emotion. No man, in TNG era they have funny foreheads that look really dumb. I think JJ Trek went back to the TOS version, which is what I think is better, where they split off thousands of years ago and have their own language and culture but aren't a different species altogether.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2017 17:35
|
|
|
Xibanya posted:No man, in TNG era they have funny foreheads that look really dumb. I think JJ Trek went back to the TOS version, which is what I think is better, where they split off thousands of years ago and have their own language and culture but aren't a different species altogether. Maybe Vulcans had those foreheads too but after Sarek they chilled out and they lost the frown-marks. Frowning, on the other hand, is seen as a mark of beauty and prestige on Romulus, so the foreheads develop apace.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2017 17:46
|
|
|
The Bloop posted:While sitting in a straight backed chair (no cushions) and keeping silent. Use the commercial breaks to think about how millennials are ruining everything. I don't need commercials to do that.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2017 17:55
|
|
|
I suppose the litmus test for a fictional culture (that I made up just now!) is that a member of that culture should be able to have pretty much any set of personality traits and be both different from other members of their culture who don't have those personality traits and different from members of another culture that have the same personality traits. Here's an exercise, grab a Star Trek character and write how they would be if they were from another Star Trek culture and see how different they are while still expressing the idea of that character. Picard As a Ferengi: a leader of a guild, a keen negotiator admired by many; someone with such a genuine appreciation for archaeology that he charges a very fair price to let people see his collection of artifacts As a Cardsssian, pretty much Picard except with a much higher body count because he'd stick as closely to the Cardassian moral code as he does to the Federation moral code. Would speechify even more. Rather than philosophizing on what it means to be human, would philosophize on what it means to be Cardassian. As a Romulan uhh. See we don't really have a model for a Romulan other than "be an rear end in a top hat," so this is hard even though Picard went undercover as a Romulan. As a Reman.....uhh let's just skip this one. As a Klingon....see the best I can get is a standard Klingon who happens to enjoy reciting Klingon opera more than most. Can't see a way for a Klingon to be especially "Picard-like." Opposite problem for as a Bajoran. Not sure if he'd be different at all, except for nominally being religious.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2017 18:48
|
|
|
McSpanky posted:Oh good, DnD is here to tell us all about reasonable engagement. Yard-arm to yard-arm is the only gentlemanly engagement.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2017 18:50
|
|
|
Gammatron 64 posted:The Klingons appear in almost every single Star Trek movie. The Romulans got no love and the Cardassians never showed up in them at all. Yeah this is what bugged me too. It's like they consulted a focus group of average people who never even heard of any races other than Klingons and keep going back to that. I actually kind of liked Nemesis because at least it was about the Romulans and the Romulans are cool. I want a movie with nothing but Cardassians. Cardassian protagonist and main antagonist. No humans or federation.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2017 19:00
|
|
|
If they added a certain perpetual ensign as a human viewpoint characters they could call it Kim and the Cardassians and get about 50% extra butts in seats due to the misunderstanding
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2017 19:03
|
|
|
Shibawanko posted:Yeah this is what bugged me too. It's like they consulted a focus group of average people who never even heard of any races other than Klingons and keep going back to that. I actually kind of liked Nemesis because at least it was about the Romulans and the Romulans are cool. I'd love to see some Cardassian Engima stories. They strike me as being a structured format like opera or Noh theater or even a Broadway show in that you can't break away from certain must-haves but within them go hog wild. Oh yeah and Cardassian women had interesting makeup. They put blue "rouge" on their necks and foreheads. That was cool.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2017 19:05
|
|
|
If we don't count Worf we have Klingons in 1, 3, 5, 6, 7? And the Klingons in TMP are minor. That's fewer movies than I thought actually. There were Klingons in one? of the JJTreks too I think but I don't remember it clearly.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2017 19:06
|
|
|
Shibawanko posted:Yeah this is what bugged me too. It's like they consulted a focus group of average people who never even heard of any races other than Klingons and keep going back to that. That's likely entirely the case, and it's entirely reasonable to do so. You can slot in Klingons because the audience you want to attract knows them. Borg, same thing. You might have Romulans because they might know them. But you actively avoid using Cardassians by the same metric.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2017 19:20
|
|
|
MisterBibs posted:That's likely entirely the case, and it's entirely reasonable to do so. You can slot in Klingons because the audience you want to attract knows them. Borg, same thing. You might have Romulans because they might know them. But you actively avoid using Cardassians by the same metric. It's boring though.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2017 19:22
|
|
|
Xibanya posted:As a Klingon....see the best I can get is a standard Klingon who happens to enjoy reciting Klingon opera more than most. Can't see a way for a Klingon to be especially "Picard-like." Klingons are really big on their ancestors. Piclingon obviously scours ancient battlefields and forgotten cities for artifacts belonging to his honorable forefathers
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2017 19:42
|
|
|
Grand Fromage posted:If we don't count Worf we have Klingons in 1, 3, 5, 6, 7? And the Klingons in TMP are minor. That's fewer movies than I thought actually. There were Klingons in a deleted scene in the first JJTrek, and Tony Todd played a Klingon in the second.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2017 19:54
|
|
|
Mike the TV posted:There were Klingons in a deleted scene in the first JJTrek, and Tony Todd played a Klingon in the second. That wasn't Todd.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2017 20:06
|
|
|
Timby posted:That wasn't Todd. Huh. My memory is tricking me then.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2017 20:13
|
|
|
Gorelab posted:Honestly I don't get why they wouldn't just throw it up on Hulu or Netflix. Star Trek is generally not mass market enough to pull for something like that on it's own. I kinda hope if it's good the Netflix part of the budget it gets it to Netflix for any second season rather than languishing forever on CBS All Access. Because it was the other way around. They came up with All Access and went 'what can we use to push this? How about a new Star Trek?'
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2017 20:32
|
|
|
re: the Romulans, I think the fact that they are so undefined is what gives them a magnetic allure to a lot of people's imaginations. Romulans have been involved with various things, have a distinctive look and a really cool technology - so you can just kind of imagine whatever cool poo poo makes sense to you there and nothing goes against it the way that it would be kind of ridiculous to say that the Ferengi have an egalitarian society, or that Klingons are actually peace-loving.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2017 20:35
|
|
|
Xibanya posted:I'd love to see some Cardassian Engima stories. They strike me as being a structured format like opera or Noh theater or even a Broadway show in that you can't break away from certain must-haves but within them go hog wild. Was the blue stuff on Cardassian womens' forehead spoon really makeup? I always assumed that was a natural coloration.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2017 20:35
|
|
|
over under on Destiny having a saucer separation based on that ring?
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2017 20:44
|
|
|
Nullsmack posted:over under on Destiny having a saucer separation based on that ring? Somehow I know it's not called Destiny but I'm genuinely struggling to remember what it's actually called e: Oh Discovery. I cheated and looked up the page
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2017 20:49
|
|
|
Pakled posted:Was the blue stuff on Cardassian womens' forehead spoon really makeup? I always assumed that was a natural coloration. Those areas turn blue when Cardassian ladies are turned on, so they apply makeup to make them appear blue as a way of appearing more attractive. #lipstick Made it up
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2017 20:52
|
|
|
Romulans didn't really work well as a society that we actually interact with on more than a surface level, but they worked pretty well as a mysterious enemy with whom you engage in tense cold war negotiations whenever one of you crosses the neutral zone
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2017 20:54
|
|
|
Pakled posted:Was the blue stuff on Cardassian womens' forehead spoon really makeup? I always assumed that was a natural coloration. I always assumed it was makeup because humans don't have any color-based sexual dimorphism but do have colorful makeup But I just googled "cardassian woman" and browsed through the image results and the only non-blue spoons I can find are a) Ziyal (thus half-Bajoran) and b) a child (and the blue could easily be something that develops in puberty if it's not makeup) So, the jury is out as far as I'm concerned
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2017 20:57
|
|
|
Xibanya posted:I'd love to see some Cardassian Engima stories. They strike me as being a structured format like opera or Noh theater or even a Broadway show in that you can't break away from certain must-haves but within them go hog wild. I think one of the pink panther movies technically qualifies as one.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2017 20:59
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 15:55 |
|
|
I finished my Enterprise watch through, and I think a couple people (I forget whom exactly, sorry) have put it well recently. It's needless, and it's dull. Much of the time Enterprise can be mistaken for almost exactly what it is; an early 2000s sci-fi show that doesn't do anything spectacularly different or innovative. Much of the first two seasons wouldn't even be recognizably Star Trek if you didn't have previous knowledge about species and technology (word find and replace not withstanding), and many of the episodes do something I mentioned earlier, being every cliche sci-fi episode that every sci-fi show does. It's a shame really, because it's obvious that a lot of the actors are trying harder than the ones on Voyager did, and season four is genuinely good instead of just inoffensively bland. I stand by what I said in this thread ages ago, it's better than Voyager and by and large I'd much rather watch Enterprise, but there's just nothing there to recommend, even the fourth season isn't worth putting somebody through the other three. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2017 21:07
|
|