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Tom Perez B/K/M? This poll is closed. |
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77 | 25.50% |
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160 | 52.98% |
| M |
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65 | 21.52% |
| Total: | 229 votes | ||
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Fulchrum posted:Its weird how you have this amazing power to instantly destroy theRepublican party with your sheer power, yet are so utterly cowed and powerless by the Democrats, who according to you, are the same as the Republicans. I would think you'd use that power to get rid of Democrats and wouldn't need to just sit on your fat asses and do nothing to contribute whatsoever while feeling smug. What are the Democrats contributing to that's worthwhile? They're losers who have no political power and you're suggesting they double-down on the same losing strategies and policy. Apparently calling people fat asses will help somehow. You're also here addressing people who probably voted for Obama twice and probably went and voted for HRC. People want policy that will make their lives better, right loving now - not ten years from now - right loving now. If Democrats can't offer that, I hope they enjoy being losers.
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Jul 21, 2017 02:33
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I've been doxxed and threatened by right wingers, had to go to protests where we were outnumbered by 3%ers and oathkeepers and league of the south, spend a good 10-20 hours a week of my free time organizing while I have a full time job. I don't just sit on my rear end but I'll admit I am smug
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Jul 21, 2017 02:34
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Huzanko posted:My dude you are stuck on this persecution complex nonsense. You're the only hope for the future of this earth. Everyone else is actively working to hurt you and stop you because of just how evil they are - there are no opposing viewpoints or other means of achieving the same ends, they wish to destroy everything. My mistake, you don't just have a persecution complex, you have a messiah complex. Do you understand this concept of democracy? That things need to get votes? That we can't just wave a magic wand and change things overnight in a way that forever blocks Republicans from changing it back? Or do you think that Republicans are a myth invented by Democrats, that congress is all theatre, and that its all them just pulling the strings to create this fiction to enact their one true goal of hurting you for no reason? Or lemme guess, Dems are just lying - everyone knows that ploticis is bing bong so simple. Fulchrum fucked around with this message at 02:39 on Jul 21, 2017 |
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Jul 21, 2017 02:36
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Haha yeah but you're critical of the democratic party so even if you vote for them you're the reason Republicans won ~ Fulchrum
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Jul 21, 2017 02:36
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Fulchrum posted:
My man have you heard of gerrymandering or looked at an electoral map for any state lately? The Republicans have done this to a large extent.
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Jul 21, 2017 02:38
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SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:My man have you heard of gerrymandering or looked at an electoral map for any state lately? The Republicans have done this to a large extent. And where were the leftist voters in 2010 to prevent them getting that power? Oh, I know, indulging in a belief they had been betrayed because Obama didn't wave a magic wand and change everything permanently.
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Jul 21, 2017 02:40
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Fulchrum posted:You're the only hope for the future of this earth. Everyone else is actively working to hurt you and stop you because of just how evil they are - there are no opposing viewpoints or other means of achieving the same ends, they wish to destroy everything. You don't seem to possess the faculties necessary to process anything being said to you here. Your sole interest seems to be preventing criticism of Democrats because Republicans exist. Republicans will always exist. Republicans have a floor of 25% of likely voters. That being the case, why not go all-out and support things like single-payer, free college, $15 minimum wage right now, etc.? Why not support more unions? They have you duped into thinking these are fantasies because that's what the donors want. You are stuck on this weird complex thing but there is actual policy that could be supported and passed that will help actual people. Leftists support these policies but you, apparently, don't. You are concerned with insulting and browbeating leftists more than you are with supporting policy that actually helps people. People like you will need to bend the knee to leftists if you want to win in 2018 and beyond.
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Jul 21, 2017 02:41
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Fulchrum posted:And where were the leftist voters in 2010 to prevent them getting that power? Oh, I know, indulging in a belief they had been betrayed because Obama didn't wave a magic wand and change everything permanently. Probably staying home because a ton of people were unemployed and were losing their houses and Democrats didn't want to prosecute the banks or prosecute the Bush admin for the War in Iraq. Can't promise hope and change and then bailout the banks and pass a health insurance industry bailout, written by the insurance industry, in the form of healthcare reform. The Democrats owned everything in 2008 and did mostly nothing instead of pressing their advantage hard and creating real change, because they don't want real change. They just wanted things back the way they were before the financial crisis. I won't even delve into the prosecution of whistleblowers, NSA spying, bullshit bipartisanship, and on and on. The Democrats aren't leftist and aren't moving left and have been moving to the right for 30 years. If you had any kind of political or historical knowledge beyond "Republicans are bad you guys!" you'd know that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKUaqFzZLxU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VW_R98EBO7s We need real change and real hope if we're going to survive climate change and the automation of mostly all work. Liberals are not offering that right now and will probably never offer that. Huzanko fucked around with this message at 02:50 on Jul 21, 2017 |
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Jul 21, 2017 02:45
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Huzanko posted:What are the Democrats contributing to that's worthwhile? They're losers who have no political power and you're suggesting they double-down on the same losing strategies and policy. Apparently calling people fat asses will help somehow. "I WANT IT NOW!" - what a sensible adult says. Huzanko posted:You don't seem to possess the faculties necessary to process anything being said to you here. Your sole interest seems to be preventing criticism of Democrats because Republicans exist. quote:They have you duped into thinking these are fantasies because that's what the donors want. quote:Leftists support these policies quote:but you, apparently, don't. You are concerned with insulting and browbeating leftists more than you are with supporting policy that actually helps people. quote:People like you will need to bend the knee to leftists if you want to win in 2018 and beyond. "And thus, by a constant shifting of rhetorical focus" and all that jazz.
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Jul 21, 2017 02:49
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Jaxyon posted:It's a stylistic issue. His policies are already better, but that deosn't win elections. 
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Jul 21, 2017 02:50
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So Bernie Sanders is actually Donald Trump? No wonder white males loved him so much.
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Jul 21, 2017 02:53
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Fulchrum posted:So Bernie Sanders is actually Donald Trump? Are you retarded
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Jul 21, 2017 02:54
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Fulchrum posted:"I WANT IT NOW!" - what a sensible adult says. Well, liberals sure aren't.
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Jul 21, 2017 02:55
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tekz posted:Are you retarded Am I the one who used Trump as proof that a socialist could win? No? Then I'm not the retarded one here.
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Jul 21, 2017 02:56
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I admit it, guys, it was me. Hillary was scratching the floor as I dragged her down the hallway, saying "I have to go tour rust-belt states and get in touch with people who feel forgotten by DC! It's what I care about and live for!" But no, I just grabbed her by the shoulder pands and went "No way. You're going to take some pics smiling with Henry Kissinger and like it, granny. The go on about Nancy Reagan being an AIDS hero instead of a silent accomplice of a shameful neglect. It will accelerate the contradictions and bring about FULL COMMUNISM, like we leftists want! And if you ever bring up that socialist crap about health care and poo poo that's in your program in a speech or debate, I'll have Chelsea shot. Keep going on about Putin, middle america cares a lot about that!" And I can't wait to do it all over again. Maybe run Chuck Schumer this time, list the whole criminalizing BDS thing as bi-partisan reaching across the aisle and getting things done.
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Jul 21, 2017 02:56
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Shut up Fulchrum.
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Jul 21, 2017 02:56
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Huzanko posted:Well, liberals sure aren't. And yet according to you, they effortlessly ground you into the dirt, and took your lunch money. C'mon, motherfuckers, which is it?
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Jul 21, 2017 02:57
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Fulchrum posted:Am I the one who used Trump as proof that a socialist could win? No? Then I'm not the retarded one here. What are you loving talking about dude lol stfu
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Jul 21, 2017 02:57
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Fulchrum posted:And yet according to you, they effortlessly ground you into the dirt, and took your lunch money. I never said any of that. I said they won't move left and have been moving right for 30 years, and that they are beholden to their donors and won't support the kind of policy we need for us to survive the oncoming crises. Seems like you're the one with the persecution complex.
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Jul 21, 2017 03:02
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Fulchrum posted:And yet according to you, they effortlessly ground you into the dirt, and took your lunch money. It's not like party primaries and general elections are -different- things, after all. poo poo, Trump mentioned both Universal Health Care ('We have to take care of everyone") and giving up on Iraq War-style interventionism last year, more than Hillary ever did. Lying through his teeth, sure, but it still resonated with the crowd and set him apart from the other GOP-bots. Imagine what someone who actually meant it might have achieved! The democrats are a waste, and if Fulchrum is their standard-bearer, they are beyond recycling.
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Jul 21, 2017 03:03
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Sephyr posted:It's not like party primaries and general elections are -different- things, after all. No, don't you know?! Trump only won because of racism and absolutely nothing else. Certainly not because he said a lot of things people wanted to hear, even though it was all lies. Imagine if a Democrat supported UHC, less military interventionism, less offshoring and outsourcing, etc.
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Jul 21, 2017 03:06
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Re: 2010 https://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2010/11/22/democrats-lose-because-they-didnt-fight-for-popular-progressive-policies quote:We commissioned a post-election national poll of those who voted. It showed that the 2010 electorate was much more conservative than the 2008 electorate. Many Democrats didn't show up. Neither did many independents who voted in 2008 for President Obama. Why not? Now, fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck off. Man, I wonder why Democrats, almost a decade later, only sheepishly support a policy supported by most people?!?!?!?!
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Jul 21, 2017 03:09
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Sephyr posted:It's not like party primaries and general elections are -different- things, after all. He also said that we have to bomb them all, kill the terrorists families, and take their oil. Then he said that we need to have a plan where people pay their fair share and let the free market sort health insurance out. Trump has a schizophrenic monkey at a typewriter instead of a brain. He said so many contradictory and nonsensical things, you can't just point to the comments he said that support your position and claim thats why he won, while quietly trying to ignore all the poo poo he said that represents the opposite of what you want and got the same reaction. If we try that, by the simple fact that he is constantly loving talking and will say literally anything, the law of averages means we could say Trump won for anything. Including for insulting the military, NATO, and for saying KFC makes you healthy.
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Jul 21, 2017 03:12
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Huzanko posted:Re: 2010 And thats why the Republicans, who took great pains to paint the ACA as a public option even as they watered it down, suffered heavy losses. That is totally a thing that happened.
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Jul 21, 2017 03:13
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Its difficult to tell if Fulchrum is intentionally arguing in bad faith, provocative sophistry, or just a genuinely terrible person. Fulchrum posted:Or do you think that Republicans are a myth invented by Democrats, that congress is all theatre, and that its all them just pulling the strings to create this fiction to enact their one true goal of hurting you for no reason? Fulchrum posted:And thats why the Republicans, who took great pains to paint the ACA as a public option even as they watered it down, suffered heavy losses. That is totally a thing that happened.
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Jul 21, 2017 03:18
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Whoa, whoa guys. I think we all need to step back, breathe, remember that Bernie would have Won, and resume pleasant discussion.
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Jul 21, 2017 03:19
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Fulchrum posted:And thats why the Republicans, who took great pains to paint the ACA as a public option even as they watered it down, suffered heavy losses. That is totally a thing that happened. It would've been pretty cool if Democrats supported a public option in the first place and, failing that, actually supported the ACA instead of running away from it. It would be cool if the Democrats weren't a bunch of spineless losers. Man, that would be cool. Again, if Republicans - by your own admission - are going to paint Democrats as job-killing commies, then why not ACTUALLY support socialist policies? Right, because they don't actually support policies that help people, just policies that enrich their donors and happen to have a side-effect of helping some people some of the time.
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Jul 21, 2017 03:21
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Man, Corbyn really broke a lot of peoples' brains. I can't blame them; kooky old commie humiliates conservative campaign spearheaded by Obama alumni via 68% 'never vote' youth turnout? That has to really mess with some worldviews.
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Jul 21, 2017 03:29
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Huzanko posted:It would've been pretty cool if Democrats supported a public option in the first place and, failing that, actually supported the ACA instead of running away from it. It would be cool if the Democrats weren't a bunch of spineless losers. Man, that would be cool. http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/barbara-hollingsworth/pelosi-obamacare-i-wanted-single-payer Are you going to shut the gently caress up and take your dose of reality? Or come up with how she didn't REALLY care about it, obstructionism isn't real, and the Dems got exactly what they wanted?
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Jul 21, 2017 03:33
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"The current dem strategy gets all the downsides of proposing leftist policy and non of the upsides, this totally make sense as part of my defense of the dems."
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Jul 21, 2017 03:34
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Huzanko posted:It would've been pretty cool if Democrats supported a public option in the first place they did! the house bill that was sent to the Senate had a public option every Senate Democrat backed the public option, but the party got tarred over its failure because of Lieberman, who wasn't even a member WhiskeyJuvenile fucked around with this message at 03:42 on Jul 21, 2017 |
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Jul 21, 2017 03:38
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Fulchrum posted:Are you going to shut the gently caress up and take your dose of reality? Or come up with how she didn't REALLY care about it, obstructionism isn't real, and the Dems got exactly what they wanted?
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Jul 21, 2017 03:47
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Fulchrum posted:"I WANT IT NOW!" - what a sensible adult says. This may be tough for you to understand, but political issues are Actually Important and people in real life suffer and die every single year we don't accomplish these goals. There is a steep opportunity cost for taking extra time to accomplish political goals. While it's obviously not possible to accomplish everything you want immediately, it is important that people continue to apply pressure, because otherwise those goals will never be accomplished. Democrats moved to the left (or at least their platform did) in 2016 not because of people like you, but because of the millions of voters who expressed discontent with the status quo. It's kinda funny when liberals say stuff like this and unintentionally reveal just how divorced they are from these issues. It's just an intellectual debate for them, so they naturally get confused and offended when people actually care about things.
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Jul 21, 2017 04:06
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tekz posted:Are you retarded Either that or just a sad reflection of how much funnier political characters used to be here. *pours a 40 whilst mouthing "hardcore sax..."*
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Jul 21, 2017 04:30
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Ytlaya posted:This may be tough for you to understand, but political issues are Actually Important and people in real life suffer and die every single year we don't accomplish these goals. So there's no time for Dems to worry about things like electability, but when it comes to throwing the country under the bus by handing things over to Republicans, we can do that endlessly.
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Jul 21, 2017 04:37
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Fulchrum posted:So there's no time for Dems to worry about things like electability, but when it comes to throwing the country under the bus by handing things over to Republicans, we can do that endlessly. As eloquent a summary of the 2016 race as I've ever seen.
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Jul 21, 2017 04:43
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That blue dog don't hunt.
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Jul 21, 2017 04:44
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Clinton lost to Trump. The thing that's throwing people under the bus rn is corporate centrism, not principled populism.
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Jul 21, 2017 04:49
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 """electability""" *loses entire government*
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Jul 21, 2017 05:05
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Fulchrum posted:So there's no time for Dems to worry about things like electability, but when it comes to throwing the country under the bus by handing things over to Republicans, we can do that endlessly. See, the problem is you're just assuming by default that both 1. moving to the left will hurt electability and 2. it will hurt it enough - in the places that matter - to actually make a difference in elections in the places that matter. In this case the burden of proof is ultimately on you to show that doing things like this will hurt electorally, because you're arguing with people who believe that the policy itself is good and helpful. There needs to be some sort of damned good excuse for why we shouldn't do these things. Basically (as I'm mentioned to JC in the past), you're creating a false dilemma where the choice is between "winning with a more centrist Democrat" and "losing with a leftist". Another thing worth mentioning is that a lot of your arguments are only valid when applying to who people vote for. If a leftist who criticizes the Democrats is still willing to vote for a Democrat (assuming it's an election in a state/area where that has a chance of mattering, at least), your argument falls apart because they're already making the pragmatic choice. At that point, all you're doing is telling people to shut up and stop criticizing the Democrats.
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Jul 21, 2017 05:07
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