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Tom Perez B/K/M?
This poll is closed.
B 77 25.50%
K 160 52.98%
M 65 21.52%
Total: 229 votes
[Edit Poll (moderators only)]

 
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Call Me Charlie
Dec 3, 2005

by Smythe

Glazier posted:

So progressive!

For Nebraska and with a policy that was guaranteed to pass? Yeah.

But hey, who gives a gently caress about the activists on the ground who supported him or the rest of his record. Cast them all out of the party!

charlie slowly whittling down the article so hopefully you'll read it instead of being a reactionary dope posted:

Mello successfully led the fight to overturn Republican Governor Pete Ricketts’s veto of a bill permitting young people in the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) program to obtain a driver’s license. Last year, he again put together a coalition that managed to reverse another of Ricketts’s vetoes—this time of a bill allowing young undocumented immigrants to apply for professional or commercial licenses. In Nebraska, which resettled more refugees per capita in 2016 than any other state, that kind of leadership stands out. As does Mello’s outspoken emphasis—unusual in a state dominated by Big Agriculture, and which still gets most of its energy from coal—on fighting climate change and protecting the environment. Likewise his record on LGBTQ issues, including a call for a law to ban discrimination in housing and employment. With strong union support from firefighters, teachers, and city workers, the Sierra Club’s enthusiastic endorsement, and the backing of an array of Democratic heavyweights, from former senator Ben Nelson to former Maryland governor Martin O’Malley, Mello was beginning to look like the party’s best chance for a win after disappointments in Kansas and Georgia.

(..)

“I would have appreciated it if NARAL had taken the time to talk to some of us on the ground” regarding Mello, said Megan Hunt, an Omaha reproductive-rights activist.

(...)

What’s more interesting is what happened next—and what didn’t. In 2012, Mello voted with Planned Parenthood on two out of three bills tracked by the group—and was excused from voting on the third. After that, Mello, who had become the influential chair of the state legislature’s budget committee, voted with Planned Parenthood 100 percent of the time. By 2015, the group was celebrating a “fourth straight year…without enacting any new abortion restrictions in Nebraska, thanks largely to committed women’s health advocates engaged in the legislative process.”

Hunt, who spent much of the past week lobbying the legislature, is one such activist. Another is her friend Sofia Jawed-Wessel, who teaches sexual health at the University of Nebraska Omaha. Long before The Wall Street Journal made it an issue, Mello had asked Jawed-Wessel to speak at Thursday’s rally. “You know the slogan ‘Women’s rights are human rights’? Well, women’s rights are economic rights, too,” said Jawed-Wessel, to cheers from the crowd.

(...)

But in Omaha, the DNC’s response was greeted with dismay. “It was Heath’s credibility with pro-life legislators that enabled him to take mandatory ultrasounds off the table and substitute a bill that stated that women had a choice to have one and to see the image,” said Jane Kleeb, chair of the Nebraska Democratic Party, of the ultrasound legislation. The competing bill not only required ultrasounds before an abortion; it also required clinics to position the screen so that women would be forced to view the fetus.

“I wish the national organizations would respect the relationship we have been nurturing, instead of just assuming we don’t know what we’re doing,” Jawed-Wessel told me afterward. “Then they might have reframed their statement in a way that added momentum to someone we consider a strong ally.”

That last part may be hard for someone in Washington—or New York—to understand. All of the women I spoke with here were well acquainted with Mello’s personal opposition to abortion. But they also knew that while remaining true to his beliefs and his Catholic faith, he has been a public defender of Planned Parenthood, one who has shifted his efforts from blocking abortion to helping women avoid unwanted pregnancies by supporting comprehensive sex education and access to contraception

Call Me Charlie fucked around with this message at 18:00 on Jul 31, 2017

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Eggplant Squire
Aug 14, 2003


Inescapable Duck posted:

Even if any of the 'BernieBro' strawman actually existed, they'd still be better and more reliable allies for social justice than establishment Democrats have proven to be.

Seriously. All of the complaining about these Bernie bro strawmen but the centrist Democrat allies by their own messaging are willing to make pragmatic choices (translation do what conservatives want) to win elections. It was only a matter of time before the moved from the economic part to the social. This needs to be denounced strongly by everyone in the party or it's going to end up being really damaging.

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

yronic heroism posted:

Well I'm sure you'll win a bunch of primaries if your sworn enemies aren't even trying.

This is probably a waste of time, but leftists are effectively facing an uphill battle for a variety of reasons. Most of the establishment media and existing party structure is opposed to them, and the former in particular is very important (as people are obviously heavily influenced by what they see and hear in the media). There's also a big difference in views depending upon age, with boomer (and i think also Gen X) Democrats generally being pretty right-wing. This gap will only continue to shrink as boomers die off and younger people growing up in the current poor economy become a bigger portion of the voting population. I'm not quite as optimistic as others in this thread about how soon this shift will result in significant electoral success, but things are definitely moving in that direction.

Also there's the previously mentioned fact that "but you aren't already winning" is such a transparently stupid argument that it's very difficult to believe that someone making it is acting in good faith. Individuals are very limited in what they can do, especially if they have other obligations in their lives. Most people can't do much more than vote and maybe donate some money or volunteer, and that doesn't somehow make their opinions less valid. I would even go so far as saying that this argument is essentially a class-based attempt to discredit people, because those who are the most vulnerable are inherently the least capable of putting significant time, money, and effort towards political action.

edit: As a side note, I'm also deliberately not focusing on the posters who seem to just be young/naive (Condiv springs to mind), because their hearts seem to generally be in the right place and almost everyone involved in politics at that age is like that. Unless someone is saying something explicitly wrong (like the wrong interpretation of Pelosi from earlier, which others already addressed), I don't see much harm in people reacting emotionally towards people who are, in fact, quite bad.

Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Jul 31, 2017

yronic heroism
Oct 31, 2008

The issue is claiming "people agree with me period, get hosed everyone I call a centrist"... yes Democratic voters love single payer. Guess what? The whole party is moving in that direction. Most of our voters do not want "a purge" or to be dictated to by a neckbeard podcast.

Condiv
May 7, 2008

Sorry to undo the effort of paying a domestic abuser $10 to own this poster, but I am going to lose my dang mind if I keep seeing multiple posters who appear to be Baloogan.

With love,
a mod


yronic heroism posted:

The issue is claiming "people agree with me period, get hosed everyone I call a centrist"... yes Democratic voters love single payer. Guess what? The whole party is moving in that direction. Most of our voters do not want "a purge" or to be dictated to by a neckbeard podcast.

lol the dems are not moving towards single payer. pelosi says it should be tried at a state level and then dems in her loving state stonewall it and say it should be done at a national level. we're getting the runaround

Sneakster
Jul 13, 2017

by R. Guyovich

Inescapable Duck posted:

Even if any of the 'BernieBro' strawman actually existed, they'd still be better and more reliable allies for social justice than establishment Democrats have proven to be.
"Socialism is racism, you know, like national socialism" Conservatives already, and now centrists.

Steve Bannon is the most prominent figure who's advocated for raising taxes, and within a decade congress is going to be nothing but post-Citizens United sitcom characters. We all know where this is headed.

The Ol Spicy Keychain
Jan 17, 2013

I MEPHISTO MY OWN ASSHOLE

yronic heroism posted:

The issue is claiming "people agree with me period, get hosed everyone I call a centrist"... yes Democratic voters love single payer. Guess what? The whole party is moving in that direction. Most of our voters do not want "a purge" or to be dictated to by a neckbeard podcast.

? The hell are you talking about? Schumer literally came out and said their 2018 platform wasn't about moving left (or right). They're just rebranding and giving us the same neoliberal policies they've been pushing.

Call Me Charlie
Dec 3, 2005

by Smythe

yronic heroism posted:

The issue is claiming "people agree with me period, get hosed everyone I call a centrist"... yes Democratic voters love single payer. Guess what? The whole party is moving in that direction. Most of our voters do not want "a purge" or to be dictated to by a neckbeard podcast.

The whole party isn't moving in that direction. See the establishment people still trying to push the line that we need to salvage the ACA instead of supporting Medicare For All or thinking that the way forward is snatching up disillusioned McCain/Romney style conservatives from their fainting couch over Trump's outrageous behavior.

And you wouldn't see people calling for a purge if it wasn't for the long documented history of centrists (or neoliberals or New Democrats or Third Way Democrats or whatever the gently caress you want to call them) intentionally marginalizing/sabotaging the progressive movement.

Gynocentric Regime
Jun 9, 2010

by Cyrano4747

Call Me Charlie posted:

For Nebraska and with a policy that was guaranteed to pass? Yeah.

But hey, who gives a gently caress about the activists on the ground who supported him or the rest of his record. Cast them all out of the party!

Yes, cast them out! I don't give a poo poo about "building bridges" with loving conservatives and authoritarians, they don't need to be bargained with they need to be destroyed.

yronic heroism
Oct 31, 2008

Scent of Worf posted:

? The hell are you talking about? Schumer literally came out and said their 2018 platform wasn't about moving left (or right). They're just rebranding and giving us the same neoliberal policies they've been pushing.

When more and more officials come out for single payer, that is moving left.

Sneakster
Jul 13, 2017

by R. Guyovich

Call Me Charlie posted:

And you wouldn't see people calling for a purge if it wasn't for the long documented history of centrists (or neoliberals or New Democrats or Third Way Democrats or whatever the gently caress you want to call them) intentionally marginalizing/sabotaging the progressive movement.
What if you're over thinking this? What if they're not the bad guy, and they just want more people to purchase a product from the companies they have stock in? Have you stopped to consider the feelings of our middle class representatives? Do you not respect their property rights?

Scent of Worf posted:

? The hell are you talking about? Schumer literally came out and said their 2018 platform wasn't about moving left (or right). They're just rebranding and giving us the same neoliberal policies they've been pushing.
Leadership needs to be dismantled but the rank and file are going in right direction:

quote:

For a proposal that used to be a rallying cry for only a handful of House Democrats, Michigan Rep. John Conyers now has 112 members of the caucus signed up for his “Medicare for All” bill — nearly 60 percent of the rank and file.

Yeowch!!! My Balls!!!
May 31, 2006

Glazier posted:

Yes, cast them out! I don't give a poo poo about "building bridges" with loving conservatives and authoritarians, they don't need to be bargained with they need to be destroyed.

it rules the same guy is demanding we purge centrists for being willing to compromise with the right and also supporting leftists compromising with the right

purity for thee, but not for me, eh, friend Trump voter?

Condiv
May 7, 2008

Sorry to undo the effort of paying a domestic abuser $10 to own this poster, but I am going to lose my dang mind if I keep seeing multiple posters who appear to be Baloogan.

With love,
a mod


Ze Pollack posted:

it rules the same guy is demanding we purge centrists for being willing to compromise with the right and also supporting leftists compromising with the right

purity for thee, but not for me, eh, friend Trump voter?

what are you even talking about?

call to action
Jun 10, 2016

by FactsAreUseless

Kokoro Wish posted:

Why do you need caricatures when you can have some real ones?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1hg6VrXcjg

This was great, thanks. Any chance you remember that Hillary Rap video, the one where that awkward looking white dude leads the change about "we need a woman in the white house"?

WampaLord
Jan 14, 2010

yronic heroism posted:

Politician blows off Fox News question. Checkmate, centrists. :smuggo:

I can't believe you can't even admit you were wrong and you're trying to double down harder. I'm never going to take you seriously again.

yronic heroism
Oct 31, 2008

How was I wrong about a story condiv posted that got a retraction printed on it?

WampaLord
Jan 14, 2010

yronic heroism posted:

How was I wrong about a story condiv posted that got a retraction printed on it?

There's loving video of it, you goddamned liar

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lHRYGKlB-Y

Sneakster
Jul 13, 2017

by R. Guyovich
If all members of congress and everyone in the media on tv are millionaires, and much of the federal government and anyone who has direct contact with members of congress are 6 figured salary professionals, maybe democracy has failed.

yronic heroism
Oct 31, 2008

WampaLord posted:

There's loving video of it, you goddamned liar

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lHRYGKlB-Y

I have not watched any video because I'm phone posting.

yronic heroism
Oct 31, 2008

Here is what happened.

galenanorth posted:

Condiv:

You quoted earlier


http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/07/30/pelosi-midterm-elections-so-unimportant

however


The question's exact words were "What are the chances Democrats win back the House in 2018, and if so, will you run for Speaker?"

It looks like she was asked both questions at the same time, answered the latter one, and FOX News initially reported it as answering the first one

steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011



Soiled Meat
Ihave not, and will not watch the video, but let me tell you all about what's in it...

yronic heroism
Oct 31, 2008

Better than just swallowing whatever Fox feeds you... but I'm sure I'll watch when I'm on wifi.

WampaLord
Jan 14, 2010

yronic heroism posted:

Better than just swallowing whatever Fox feeds you... but I'm sure I'll watch when I'm on wifi.

I know that Fox News is evil, but you do realize they're still capable of asking questions that deserve honest answers, yes? Particularly in the case of Chris Wallace, him and Shep Smith are the only respectable people left there.

yronic heroism
Oct 31, 2008

WampaLord posted:

I know that Fox News is evil, but you do realize they're still capable of asking questions that deserve honest answers, yes? Particularly in the case of Chris Wallace, him and Shep Smith are the only respectable people left there.

Look, the bottom line is that it's small ball bullshit punditry to hang on some interview question to see which way any politician spins an answer so you can shout "Eureka! They're not trying to win! Video proof!" No one in this thread would give two shits if Bernie Sanders gave that answer. Quite literally, nobody cares.

WampaLord
Jan 14, 2010

yronic heroism posted:

Look, the bottom line is that it's small ball bullshit punditry to hang on some interview question to see which way any politician spins an answer so you can shout "Eureka! They're not trying to win! Video proof!" No one in this thread would give two shits if Bernie Sanders gave that answer. Quite literally, nobody cares.

I didn't exactly have a lot of respect for you before this moment, but know that you've lost literally all of my respect. I can't stand fucks like you who refuse to admit they were wrong.

yronic heroism
Oct 31, 2008

WampaLord posted:

I didn't exactly have a lot of respect for you before this moment, but know that you've lost literally all of my respect. I can't stand fucks like you who refuse to admit they were wrong.

The difference between me and condiv (and the slave guy a couple days back) is I wasn't wrong. Not answering a question is pure spin. It's not some signed heartfelt confession that states "I don't want to win an election." Even many of the posters who have not been called centrist pieces of poo poo acknowledge this is ridiculous.

And if you care so much about people refusing to say they're wrong, you'd be stepping all over the slave guy's bullshit.

NewForumSoftware
Oct 8, 2016

by Lowtax
oh well if it's just spin that's ok by all means spin away Nancy you're our only hope

yronic heroism posted:

And if you care so much about people refusing to say they're wrong, you'd be stepping all over the slave guy's bullshit.

:cry:

yronic heroism
Oct 31, 2008

NewForumSoftware posted:

oh well if it's just spin that's ok by all means spin away Nancy you're our only hope

Well it's better than spinning Trump's slaves as "not slaves" so compared to you she's still the lesser of two evils.

WampaLord
Jan 14, 2010

yronic heroism posted:

And if you care so much about people refusing to say they're wrong, you'd be stepping all over the slave guy's bullshit.

You would think someone with a 2008 regdate would be smart about not feeding trolls. I don't respond to nonsense.

Condiv
May 7, 2008

Sorry to undo the effort of paying a domestic abuser $10 to own this poster, but I am going to lose my dang mind if I keep seeing multiple posters who appear to be Baloogan.

With love,
a mod


yronic heroism posted:

Here is what happened.

the funniest part about that post that you, wj, and all the other pretend leftists fell hook line and sinker for is this: the supposedly missing information galenanorth was talking about, was already in my post!

galenanorth posted:

Condiv:

You quoted earlier

quote:

House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) on Sunday said it is “unimportant” for Democrats to win the midterm elections in 2018.

During an appearance on “Fox News Sunday,” host Chris Wallace asked Pelosi to estimate the chances that Democrats win back the lower chamber back in 2018 and whether she would run again for speaker if they did.

“That’s so unimportant. What is important is that we have the lively debate on a better deal,” Pelosi said.

http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/07/30/pelosi-midterm-elections-so-unimportant

however

quote:

House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) was asked on "Fox News Sunday" whether she'll run for speaker if Democrats win back the House in 2018.

"That's so unimportant," she told Chris Wallace. "What is important is that we have a lively debate on a better deal, better pay, better jobs and a better future. And that's what we look forward to having."

...

UPDATE: A previous version of this article stated that Pelosi referred to the midterm elections as "so unimportant." Rep. Pelosi's office clarified that she was speaking only about her future as speaker if Democrats were to win the House.

The question's exact words were "What are the chances Democrats win back the House in 2018, and if so, will you run for Speaker?"

It looks like she was asked both questions at the same time, answered the latter one, and FOX News initially reported it as answering the first one


see, galenanorth pretended i sourced fox news cause he's a hack, quoted a correction on a fox news article at me as if it meant anything to what i posted, and then claimed i left out something I didn't leave out

centrists sure like to smear people with false claims

Condiv fucked around with this message at 20:44 on Jul 31, 2017

NewForumSoftware
Oct 8, 2016

by Lowtax

yronic heroism posted:

Well it's better than spinning Trump's slaves as "not slaves" so compared to you she's still the lesser of two evils.

lol that your brain can be twisted enough to start unironically thinking that forum posters are the real problem and not elected officials who sell out their constituents for donor dollars

really it distills your opinions to the core. democrats aren't the problem, leftists being mean to democrats on the internet is the problem

yronic heroism
Oct 31, 2008

WampaLord posted:

You would think someone with a 2008 regdate would be smart about not feeding trolls. I don't respond to nonsense.

Then why are you seeing some spin interview answer as this "checkmate" moment. It was obvious to me just from the quote the "unimportant" part was related to the question about her running for speaker. Which I don't believe anyway because I don't believe any television interview as providing useful information that reflects what the speaker is really thinking.

NewForumSoftware posted:

lol that your brain can be twisted enough to start unironically thinking that forum posters are the real problem and not elected officials who sell out their constituents for donor dollars

really it distills your opinions to the core. democrats aren't the problem, leftists being mean to democrats on the internet is the problem

You are a "leftist" being nice to slave owners, drat right you're a problem.

WampaLord
Jan 14, 2010

yronic heroism posted:

Then why are you seeing some spin interview answer as this "checkmate" moment. It was obvious to me just from the quote the "unimportant" part was related to the question about her running for speaker. Which I don't believe anyway because I don't believe any television interview as providing useful information that reflects what the speaker is really thinking.

It's not "checkmate" it's just another in the long list of tone deaf statements Nancy Pelosi has made that show her to be a Hillary-type/Bad Dem, just like the "we're capitalists and that's just the way it is" comment to the nice young kid who asked about economic leftism.

And you defending it, then doubling down when proven that you were wrong shows a real lack of integrity.

NewForumSoftware
Oct 8, 2016

by Lowtax

yronic heroism posted:

You are a "leftist" being nice to slave owners, drat right you're a problem.

Just for the record, I'm not opposing to disbarring anyone who voted for a slaveholder in 2016 to ever vote again in a presidential election.

Maybe we'll get a non-slaveowner as a major party nominee in 2020.

yronic heroism
Oct 31, 2008

WampaLord posted:

It's not "checkmate" it's just another in the long list of tone deaf statements Nancy Pelosi has made that show her to be a Hillary-type/Bad Dem, just like the "we're capitalists and that's just the way it is" comment to the nice young kid who asked about economic leftism.

And you defending it, then doubling down when proven that you were wrong shows a real lack of integrity.

attack my motives all you want. There's a difference between tone deaf statements, which I may even agree is a fair characterization, and this loving histrionic bullshit of "you guys don't want to win STArT TH E PURGE!"

mila kunis
Jun 10, 2011

yronic heroism posted:

The issue is claiming "people agree with me period, get hosed everyone I call a centrist"... yes Democratic voters love single payer. Guess what? The whole party is moving in that direction.

Are they?

tekz posted:

California democrats block state single payer:

https://twitter.com/davidsirota/status/878417673264087040

tekz posted:

If a democratic supermajority in a solid blue state with an economy that dwarfs that of most countries in the world refuses to implement UHC, I think it's time to give up on the democratic party.

NewForumSoftware
Oct 8, 2016

by Lowtax

yronic heroism posted:

this loving histrionic bullshit of "you guys don't want to win STArT TH E PURGE!"

dude you're getting purged and there's nothing you can say to stop it

kneel to st bernard and we shall consider sparing your family

Condiv
May 7, 2008

Sorry to undo the effort of paying a domestic abuser $10 to own this poster, but I am going to lose my dang mind if I keep seeing multiple posters who appear to be Baloogan.

With love,
a mod


what's wrong with pelosi and manchin getting purged? and schumer?

yronic heroism
Oct 31, 2008

I think I'll be safe from the NFS-style neckbeards in spit of your best efforts to post the dankest of memes.

Willie Tomg posted:

It is a fair answer for both. It's reasonable to not speculate on future outcomes and focus on running the race with integrity, except we've seen bits of the Dem platform going into midterms and it's tax credits, so what the hell IS she focusing on aside from a barely-restrained panic attack?

This is what an intellectually honest criticism looks like, btw.

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NewForumSoftware
Oct 8, 2016

by Lowtax
"we need intellectual honesty" centrists scream as they try to implore with the american people that Hillary Clinton was the good kind of slaveowner

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