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Tom Perez B/K/M? This poll is closed. |
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77 | 25.50% |
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160 | 52.98% |
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65 | 21.52% |
| Total: | 229 votes | ||
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Again, as long as you are aware of your child's attendance, and have attempted a nonzero number of reasonable parenting actions in an attempt to make your child go to school, you are not prosecutable here, even if your child is willfully disobedient. You are prosecutable if you a) do nothing to encourage your child to go to school or b) assert your child does not need to attend school. Being poor doesn't make you an incompetent parent.
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Aug 3, 2017 03:38
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JeffersonClay posted:You might have to justify your parenting to the state if you are objectively failing at it oh the humanity i can't believe the democratic party is losing elections
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Aug 3, 2017 03:38
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I'm sure the type of person prosecuted for having a truant child can easily swing twenty-five hundred bucks. Tough but fair.
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Aug 3, 2017 03:39
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Mecha Gojira posted:Actually, the way the law is worded, you can be on the hook for misdemeanor "contributing to the deliquency of a minor," which itself potentially carries a $2,500 fine and a year-long jail sentence source ON TOP of their definition of "chronic truancy" which applies to the K-8. That's not the law Harris drafted, and her law says you can't be punished by both. Are you also suggesting we decriminalize "contributing to the delinquency of a minor"?
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Aug 3, 2017 03:41
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The Kingfish posted:I'm sure the type of person prosecuted for having a truant child can easily swing twenty-five hundred bucks. Tough but fair. Like this law sees much play in the white suburbs and wealthy communities. Fuckin' black kids are being shipped from school to jail while white kids skip class and do whatever the gently caress white kids do.
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Aug 3, 2017 03:42
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Razputeen posted:i can't believe the democratic party is losing elections I'm loving the political geniuses who think "decriminalize child neglect" and "decriminalize contributing to the delinquency of a minor" are winners for the democrats.
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Aug 3, 2017 03:42
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JeffersonClay posted:Again, as long as you are aware of your child's attendance, and have attempted a nonzero number of reasonable parenting actions in an attempt to make your child go to school, you are not prosecutable here, even if your child is willfully disobedient. You are prosecutable if you a) do nothing to encourage your child to go to school or b) assert your child does not need to attend school. What's the title number? I'm trying to find it on Westlaw. E:its hard to find this poo poo on my phone The Kingfish fucked around with this message at 03:45 on Aug 3, 2017 |
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Aug 3, 2017 03:42
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JeffersonClay posted:That's not the law Harris drafted, and her law says you can't be punished by both. Are you also suggesting we decriminalize "contributing to the delinquency of a minor"? As use as a cudgel against minority communities, like most of these loving laws are? Hell yes I am. In fact, I'm all for the complete destruction of the American justice system because it doesn't operate out of principles of justice, but out of retribution and grift. Basically, what I'm saying is go gently caress yourself, JeffersonClay. You don't believe in the ideals of egalitarian justice; you're a sociopath who believes in nothing but scoring rhetorical points or trolling or whatever the gently caress you're trying to do.
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Aug 3, 2017 03:45
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I, too, support destabilizing the families of at-risk youth. Certainly no truancy is part of greater alienation or kids making money to support their families, perhaps the poor can be relieved of their character deficiencies through discipline. Threatening to make them watch those videos JeffersonClay made would straighten them out real fast.
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Aug 3, 2017 03:46
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The Kingfish posted:What's the title number? I'm trying to find it on Westlaw. Ive quoted it twice ffs. http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=PEN§ionNum=270.1. Mecha Gojira posted:As use as a cudgel against minority communities, like most of these loving laws are? Hell yes I am. In fact, I'm all for the complete destruction of the American justice system because it doesn't operate out of principles of justice, but out of retribution and grift. I don't think minority communities would be better off if we decriminalized educational neglect sorry
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Aug 3, 2017 03:47
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Sneakster posted:I, too, support destabilizing the families of at-risk youth. Certainly no truancy is part of greater alienation or kids making money to support their families, perhaps the poor can be relieved of their character deficiencies through discipline. Threatening to make them watch those videos JeffersonClay made would straighten them out real fast. Yes one of the benefits of this law is that it criminalizes parents who would use their K-8th grade child as a wage laborer instead of sending them to school. Was not expecting you to white knight child labor.
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Aug 3, 2017 03:48
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JeffersonClay posted:Kamala Harris advocated locking up parents who willfully neglected their children's education. Educational neglect is a subset of child neglect. Ergo, people who disagree with Kamala Harris' decision to prosecute willful educational neglect want to decriminalize educational neglect, and therefore want to decriminalize some child neglect. There's a reasonable argument to be made that punishment for neglect that doesn't involve doing something that would be a crime in other contexts (like sexual or severe physical abuse) should just peak with having the child removed from custody. A fine or prison time given to a parent who retains custody of the child accomplishes nothing but hurting the child, and even if it's given after removing the child from custody it still doesn't accomplish much of anything. The only plausible purpose is for it to act as a deterrent, but from what I understand truancy rates haven't improved much (if at all) in response to her policy (which is honestly what you'd expect; punishments as a deterrent are rarely effective). The fact that truancy is heavily disproportionately an issue among low income and minority families also casts heavy doubt on your attempt to frame it as primarily a moral failing. Edit: You are quite literally using the exact same "ARE YOU SAYING WE SHOULD BE SOFT ON CRIME???" argument conservatives use. In your fervor to find some way prove leftists wrong (and let's not kid ourselves - you had already decided they were wrong before even beginning the discussion), you've adopted the same rationale as Republicans (and many Democrats) use to justify countless terrible decisions that have been made with respect to our criminal justice system. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 03:57 on Aug 3, 2017 |
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Aug 3, 2017 03:51
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JeffersonClay posted:Yes one of the benefits of this law is that it criminalizes parents who would use their K-8th grade child as a wage laborer instead of sending them to school. Was not expecting you to be notorious for those scat videos.
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Aug 3, 2017 03:51
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Okay, it's time to just poo poo on JC now. He's being willfully disingenuous to the point where he's pretending he cares about the exploitation of children. If we really gave a poo poo about child truancy, they'd fix the underlying systemic issues with both our educational system AND justice system. But that's just so hard and would take work and actual redistribution of wealth in this country. Better to just throw even more loving people in jail and pretend the problem is lazy minority parents or whatever.
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Aug 3, 2017 03:57
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Ytlaya posted:There's a reasonable argument to be made that punishment for neglect that doesn't involve doing something that would be a crime in other contexts (like sexual or severe physical abuse) should just peak with having the child removed from custody. A fine or prison time given to a parent who retains custody of the child accomplishes nothing but hurting the child, and even if it's given after removing the child from custody it still doesn't accomplish much of anything. The only plausible purpose is for it to act as a deterrent, but from what I understand truancy rates haven't improved much (if at all) in response to her policy (which is honestly what you'd expect; punishments as a deterrent are rarely effective). Again, truancy isn't criminalized here, and neither is being the parent of a chronically truant student. Failure to reasonably supervise and encourage school attendance is criminalized, but only in cases where material harm has been caused to the child, chronic truancy. The state is required to provide training and support to parents who might lack the skills to "reasonably supervise" their child before prosecuting. This law is about giving school districts leverage over parents who choose not to send their kids to school. Sneakster posted:One of the benefits of centrism is the lack of welfare, and erasure of poverty in political discourse. But what about the noble child laborer that this law will criminalize? Lol.
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Aug 3, 2017 03:59
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JeffersonClay posted:I'm loving the political geniuses who think "decriminalize child neglect" and "decriminalize contributing to the delinquency of a minor" are winners for the democrats. people resent being threatened with jail time on the whim of teenagers, yes. moreover, they resent social engineering by idiot democrats who can't beat the most howling gaggle of turkeynecked morons to ever live in an election
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Aug 3, 2017 04:00
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From the people that brought you socialism can't lose, it's legalize child abuse!
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Aug 3, 2017 04:03
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From the people who brought you the 2016 Democratic presidential campaign, it's more criminalized poverty!
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Aug 3, 2017 04:05
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I'm putting a call into rush limbaugh for your celebrity appearance, your attitudes on education could drive a hundred years of republican fodder for charter and homeschooling.
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Aug 3, 2017 04:06
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JeffersonClay posted:Again, truancy isn't criminalized here. Failure to avoid truancy is criminalized, but only in cases of truancy. This law is about giving school districts leverage Lol. Mecha Gojira posted:Okay, it's time to just poo poo on JC now.
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Aug 3, 2017 04:06
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Don't you guys see the law is actually design to discourage people from having children. It's a overpopulation thing. It's all about environmentalism. And it's a good bridge until we are able to implement the one child policy.
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Aug 3, 2017 04:07
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Oh poo poo, here we go again.quote:The financial scene is familiar, the stuff of films like Inside Job and The Big Short. Rocket-scientist financiers buy up billions of dollars of risky loans and repackage them into complex investments with multiple layers of debt. Credit rating agencies classify the top layers as triple A. Institutional investors, including pension funds and charitable organisations, flock to buy these apparently risk-free yet high-yielding investments. Tension builds. Let's see what the response to this kind of news will be.
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Aug 3, 2017 04:10
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like i don't think the democrats really understand how much their above-it-all, smart-morally-superior-expert stance was dependent on their success. that poo poo got tired with all the stuff they were universally wrong about for the last 20 years but losing to trump and watching the party collapse around them should have been both the killing blow and final humiliation of the issuance of these kinds of pompous edicts
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Aug 3, 2017 04:11
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Kokoro Wish posted:Oh poo poo, here we go again. Bipartisan move to bail out Wall Street, regular people die in the street as they lose their homes and jobs. Again. First as tragedy, then as farce, then as tragedy again, then as farce again...
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Aug 3, 2017 04:12
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Razputeen posted:people resent being threatened with jail time on the whim of teenagers, yes. moreover, they resent social engineering by idiot democrats who can't beat the most howling gaggle of turkeynecked morons to ever live in an election Ya see, Americans hate it when the government tells them what to do. Now let me tell you about my plans for a government takeover of the economy. Grognan posted:I'm putting a call into rush limbaugh for your celebrity appearance, your attitudes on education could drive a hundred years of republican fodder for charter and homeschooling. Actually this policy is also about getting public schools their ADA money from the state and federal government. Attendance pays. You don't get parents who refuse to send their kids to school at charter schools, right? This law is also about giving the state power over homeschoolers by forcing them to demonstrably provide education and not just let their kid run around all day. You couldn't be more wrong. This law is giving public schools more tools to keep their attendance numbers up and therefore stave off charter school takeover. JeffersonClay fucked around with this message at 04:16 on Aug 3, 2017 |
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Aug 3, 2017 04:13
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Kokoro Wish posted:Oh poo poo, here we go again. Reminder: centrist trash completely owned by these companies are complicit in destroying the economy through normalizing massive graft and crimes, they're literally robbing the country to pay these criminals that they have acknowledged as above the law even when handling the most overtly acknowledged blood money. These people are dangerous criminals, they aren't going to stop until they're brought to justice. JeffersonClay posted:Ya see, Americans hate it when the government tells them what to do. Now let me tell you about my plans for a government takeover of the economy. Sneakster fucked around with this message at 04:19 on Aug 3, 2017 |
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Aug 3, 2017 04:14
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Sneakster posted:"Cut it out" now let me tell you about the noble child laborer and his equally noble parents
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Aug 3, 2017 04:19
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JeffersonClay posted:Ya see, Americans hate it when the government tells them what to do. Now let me tell you about my plans for a government takeover of the economy. americans like it when you give them things. they dislike it when you threaten them with punitive damages, particularly for things mostly out of their control. or did i just blow your mind
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Aug 3, 2017 04:19
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On the other hand, Americans hate child abuse, and frown upon contributing to the delinquency of minors, so decriminalizing those things might be thornier than you think. And those arguments seem equally applicable to child labor. If the government can't tell you to send your child to school, who are they to tell you you can't use them to earn some scratch, if they're not going to school anyway?
JeffersonClay fucked around with this message at 04:24 on Aug 3, 2017 |
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Aug 3, 2017 04:21
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*lives in world's largest prison system with most meager social services in industrialized world* what we need now to fix this social problem is the threat of more prison
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Aug 3, 2017 04:21
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Harris 2020: Bailouts for wal-street, bail bonds for children.Razputeen posted:*lives in world's largest prison system with most meager social services in industrialized world* what we need now to fix this social problem is the threat of more prison
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Aug 3, 2017 04:24
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Sneakster posted:Harris 2020: Bailouts for wal-street, bail bonds for children. No I'm saying bail bonds for negligent parents. You're the one who wants them in wage slavery instead of school lol.
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Aug 3, 2017 04:27
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JeffersonClay posted:No I'm saying bail bonds for negligent parents. You're the one who wants them in wage slavery instead of school lol.
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Aug 3, 2017 04:35
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I dunno I personally find unironic defenses of child labor in the United States to be grosser.
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Aug 3, 2017 04:36
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But you're ok with it overseas?
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Aug 3, 2017 04:38
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wait until you find out what kind of labor policy abuela pushed for in haiti
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Aug 3, 2017 04:39
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JeffersonClay posted:I dunno I personally find unironic defenses of child labor in the United States to be grosser. 
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Aug 3, 2017 04:39
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Let's go to south LA tomorrow and ask "in what way is your community different from, say, Haiti, I'm curious, is that a good comparison for me to be making?" and see how it goes.
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Aug 3, 2017 04:48
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JeffersonClay posted:I dunno I personally find unironic defenses of child labor in the United States to be grosser. Where does goddamn child labor come into play here? If we don't jail people because their kids cut class, they're going to be put to work in workhouses? You're so disingenous
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Aug 3, 2017 05:01
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Hahaha suddenly "evidence-based policy" liberals need zero evidence for the effectiveness of jailing the poor for societal problems like truancy in poor communities.
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Aug 3, 2017 05:13
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