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Tom Perez B/K/M? This poll is closed. |
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77 | 25.50% |
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160 | 52.98% |
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65 | 21.52% |
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JeffersonClay posted:Like I know what the holocaust was, and I know the Nazis extracted slave labor from their victims and stole their property, but did those actions actually produce more economic prosperity than the counterfactual where there is no holocaust and European Jews weren't liquidated or forced to emigrate? No.
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Aug 15, 2017 20:48
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JeffersonClay posted:Like I know what the holocaust was, and I know the Nazis extracted slave labor from their victims and stole their property, but did those actions actually produce more economic prosperity than the counterfactual where there is no holocaust and European Jews weren't liquidated or forced to emigrate? No. And I'm sure the holocaust museum does not think so. Several occupied western european countries benefited from the imported slave labourers of the lebensraum. Industrial capacities were expanded, and the new factories continued to boost their economies after the war. You are an idiot who knows nothing. [edit] https://www.researchgate.net/publication/233942769_Occupied_Economies_An_Economic_History_of_Nazi-Occupied_Europe_1939-1945 Kilroy posted:It kinda sounds like, based on this post and a few others in this thread, that if the answer was "Yes" you'd think the Holocaust was a swell idea. Nosfereefer fucked around with this message at 20:52 on Aug 15, 2017 |
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Aug 15, 2017 20:49
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Call Me Charlie posted:Step back, boys. I'm about to drop the hottest of takes. It's possible to be anti-facist...while also not supporting antifa/black bloc Antifa/black bloc are good tho.
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Aug 15, 2017 20:51
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imagine a group of people whose ideology is to protect people from genocidal maniacs. now imagine thinking that's bad 
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Aug 15, 2017 21:01
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JeffersonClay posted:Like I know what the holocaust was, and I know the Nazis extracted slave labor from their victims and stole their property, but did those actions actually produce more economic prosperity than the counterfactual where there is no holocaust and European Jews weren't liquidated or forced to emigrate? No. And I'm sure the holocaust museum does not think so. more economic prosperity for the Nazi party and their clients, yes. Everyone else? No, but they didn't care, now did they. The Dipshit fucked around with this message at 21:05 on Aug 15, 2017 |
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Aug 15, 2017 21:01
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Condiv posted:imagine a group of people whose ideology is to protect people from genocidal maniacs. now imagine thinking that's bad I dunno i heard they punched a dude once.
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Aug 15, 2017 21:26
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JeffersonClay posted:They advocate for amnesty and oppose deportation in the absence of amnesty. They support Kamala Harris' efforts for the same. MAybe Kamala would find more sympathy if she focused more on the human side of the story instead of the beancounter side that ultimately has nothing to do with the people she is supposed to be helping.
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Aug 15, 2017 21:42
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Based off the past few days, how many centrists do you think have started to practice goose-stepping? none they're already masters of it
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Aug 15, 2017 22:24
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So old Donald used the phrase 'alt-left' this afternoon; doesn't look good that some Dems have been using the same propaganda/language as the guy who thinks Nazis are good people.
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Aug 15, 2017 22:25
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If anything, this should make centrist dems want to drop the term, the one thing they all agree on is that Trump is uniquely awful and they are definitely in no way like him. Now we just need Donny to say "BernieBros"
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Aug 15, 2017 22:27
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Nosfereefer posted:Several occupied western european countries benefited from the imported slave labourers of the lebensraum. Industrial capacities were expanded, and the new factories continued to boost their economies after the war. You are an idiot who knows nothing. Did they benefit more than in the counterfactual where there's no holocaust and their Jewish populations weren't liquidated? No. And your citation doesn't suggest they did. Maybe if you've been maneuvered into defending the economic benefits of the holocaust you should think twice about calling other people idiots. Kilroy posted:It kinda sounds like, based on this post and a few others in this thread, that if the answer was "Yes" you'd think the Holocaust was a swell idea. Based on this post, and a few others in this thread, you are an illiterate moron. JeffersonClay posted:A better analogy would be criticizing the appropriation of Jewish businesses and the removal of Jews from the German labor force as both immoral and economically harmful. Nazis claimed they were helping the German economy by removing the Jews--rebutting that assertion is smart. steinrokkan posted:MAybe Kamala would find more sympathy if she focused more on the human side of the story instead of the beancounter side that ultimately has nothing to do with the people she is supposed to be helping. She did and does focus on more than just "rotting crops" you moron. And regardless, she's supposed to be helping farmers, farm workers, and people who eat vegetables-- these are all people negatively impacted by deporting agricultural workers resulting in lost production.
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Aug 15, 2017 22:42
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You know what, JC, you're right. We all lost sight of the true victims here, the vegetable eaters.
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Aug 15, 2017 22:44
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Ahaha, Trump has started using the term "Alt-left". Thanks Liberals
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Aug 15, 2017 22:47
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mods, pls word filter "centrist" to "Alt-Republican" tia
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Aug 15, 2017 22:49
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Neera Tanden has been called to resign.
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Aug 15, 2017 22:55
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Aug 15, 2017 22:59
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Nonsense posted:Neera Tanden has been called to resign. Lol that owns
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Aug 15, 2017 23:00
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Jizz Festival posted:You know what, JC, you're right. We all lost sight of the true victims here, the vegetable eaters. I mean, it seems like you should be concerned with poor people facing higher food prices, but I'm not really surprised that you aren't.
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Aug 15, 2017 23:02
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BadOptics posted:So old Donald used the phrase 'alt-left' this afternoon; doesn't look good that some Dems have been using the same propaganda/language as the guy who thinks Nazis are good people. WampaLord posted:If anything, this should make centrist dems want to drop the term, the one thing they all agree on is that Trump is uniquely awful and they are definitely in no way like him. Now we just need Donny to say "BernieBros" I was thinking the same thing. Also Kos and Joy-Ann Reid need to loving apologize.
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Aug 15, 2017 23:02
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In light of the latest presser I feel compelled to urge Warner to gently caress himself, the son of a bitch.
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Aug 15, 2017 23:06
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Nonsense posted:Neera Tanden has been called to resign. wow this will have as much impact as when Heritage fired DeMint
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Aug 15, 2017 23:12
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:wow this will have as much impact as when Heritage fired DeMint One less impediment to Democratic coalition unity.
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Aug 15, 2017 23:29
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Nonsense posted:Neera Tanden has been called to resign. By who?
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Aug 15, 2017 23:32
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Majorian posted:I was thinking the same thing. Also Kos and Joy-Ann Reid need to loving apologize. I imagine you'll see apologies to the left for "alt-left" right around the time you see apologies from the left for "Clinton foundation" and "DNC cheated Bernie".
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Aug 15, 2017 23:33
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JeffersonClay posted:Based on this post, and a few others in this thread, you are an illiterate moron.
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Aug 15, 2017 23:38
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Mister Facetious posted:mods, pls word filter "centrist" to "Alt-Republican" tia
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Aug 15, 2017 23:39
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Please just stop engaging with Bad Democrat and Scat Fetishist JefforsonClay who is really bad and dumb and is pro slavery.
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Aug 15, 2017 23:39
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when was the last time jeffersoncrazy ratfucked
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Aug 15, 2017 23:51
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Yeah, the fact that Trump and centrists are now using the same language to go after anything vaguely left-wing should be a giant clue about how hosed politics in the US has become.
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Aug 15, 2017 23:59
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JeffersonClay posted:Yes and did it produce prosperity for the German laborer as the Nazis promised? Like are you arguing that actually the holocaust had real economic benefits? Benefits for who? In fact WWII Germany lived off the spoils of conquered territory and slave labor. And for the people who weren't rounded up as enemies of the regime, quality of life was pretty good until they started losing the war. That's very basic history. And how any kind of exploitation works. Someone loses, someone else benefits.
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Aug 16, 2017 00:15
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Granted, there is an argument to be made if the Nazis had simply kept everything running relatively smoothly rather than starving/murdering entire categories of people they could have gotten more out of their conquests.
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Aug 16, 2017 00:18
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I'm willing to give Kamala Harris the relative benefit of the doubt with regard to the dumb "the crops are rotting!!!" tweet as Twitter is a terrible medium for transmitting nuance, as stupid as the messaging of that particular tweet may be. I'm sure as a politician there is at least SOMETHING to be said in the potential for her to listen to which direction the political winds are blowing. However, as long as there are dumb fucks like JeffersonClay who concern troll about market COSTS as the ultimate determiner of any and all quality of life issues, she will be pulled more in that particularly cold and politically shallow direction. So get hosed JC, and while this:Kilroy posted:It kinda sounds like, based on this post and a few others in this thread, that if the answer was "Yes" you'd think the Holocaust was a swell idea. is hyperbolic to an extent (but honestly I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't...), it hits the mark well enough that you really do need to take a hard, deep look at yourself and be ashamed. It's bad enough that you yourself are that much of a piece of poo poo (and likely always will be), but the fact that you would prefer that the Democratic party adopt that cold economic calculus as the core of its political and policy-making process means that you prefer to pursue political doom on the rest of us for the sake of your dumb ideology, all the while fueling the conditions that become a breeding ground for the alt-right. MooselanderII fucked around with this message at 00:25 on Aug 16, 2017 |
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Aug 16, 2017 00:23
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It's interesting to see the wheel of history turning round and coming back to this point again: the fascists and the liberals team up to marginalize and jail the socialists, and when that's done the fascists murder all the liberals. For a while I had hoped it would be different this time but it's really not looking to be the case.
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Aug 16, 2017 00:59
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Kilroy posted:It's interesting to see the wheel of history turning round and coming back to this point again: the fascists and the liberals team up to marginalize and jail the socialists, and when that's done the fascists murder all the liberals. For a while I had hoped it would be different this time but it's really not looking to be the case. Well it's a little bit different; Russia is also ruled by fascists this time.
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Aug 16, 2017 01:01
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MooselanderII posted:is hyperbolic to an extent (but honestly I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't...), it hits the mark well enough that you really do need to take a hard, deep look at yourself and be ashamed. It's bad enough that you yourself are that much of a piece of poo poo (and likely always will be), but the fact that you would prefer that the Democratic party adopt that cold economic calculus as the core of its political and policy-making process means that you prefer to pursue political doom on the rest of us for the sake of your dumb ideology, all the while fueling the conditions that become a breeding ground for the alt-right. On the contrary, rebutting the alt-right's racist arguments about immigrants hurting the economy and reducing wages for American laborers directly is vital. It's not my fault you're too dumb to tell the difference between all the arguments about the economy. Ardennes posted:Granted, there is an argument to be made if the Nazis had simply kept everything running relatively smoothly rather than starving/murdering entire categories of people they could have gotten more out of their conquests. Right. When Hitler said "the economy sucks because of the Jews, if we get rid of them the economy will improve", he was loving wrong. The idiots coming out of the woodwork to say "well, actually, he was right" are, well, not that surprising in this thread honestly. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Aug 16, 2017 01:03
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JeffersonClay posted:Right. When Hitler said "the economy sucks because of the Jews, if we get rid of them the economy will improve", he was loving wrong. The idiots coming out of the woodwork to say "well, actually, he was right" are, well, not that surprising in this thread honestly. So when you say this: JeffersonClay posted:A better analogy would be criticizing the appropriation of Jewish businesses and the removal of Jews from the German labor force as both immoral and economically harmful.
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Aug 16, 2017 01:11
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JeffersonClay posted:On the contrary, rebutting the alt-right's racist arguments about immigrants hurting the economy and reducing wages for American laborers directly is vital. It's not my fault you're too dumb to tell the difference between all the arguments about the economy. And it's been pointed out to you here a million times: counter it with something better than pearl clutching over rotten food, such as improved labor standards across the board (and no, this discussion is not inherently limited to just farm workers). But I guess you would rather punch left than acknowledge your own harm to the political discourse.
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Aug 16, 2017 01:29
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BadOptics posted:Well it's a little bit different; Russia is also ruled by fascists this time.
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Aug 16, 2017 01:35
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MooselanderII posted:And it's been pointed out to you here a million times: counter it with something better than pearl clutching over rotten food, such as improved labor standards across the board (and no, this discussion is not inherently limited to just farm workers). But I guess you would rather punch left than acknowledge your own harm to the political discourse. "Immigrants hurt the economy and depress wages" isn't a leftist argument, it's an alt-right argument. Rebutting it isn't punching left. "actually, immigrant laborers do jobs that help the economy" needs to be part of the response, and that's exactly what "pearl clutching about rotten food" means you imbecile. Kilroy posted:Actually, the "idiots" are coming out of the woodwork to point out for you that even engaging in the argument at that level is already monstrous. If you find you're engaging with the prospect of Nazism at the level of its economic efficiency (or lack thereof), then you need to turn right the gently caress back around the floor it in the opposite direction, because you are way deep into some very dark woods. No, they were arguing that the holocaust had economic benefits for the german people. Goddamn you are terrible at reading. quote:It is hard to overstate how wrong this is. If you are arguing with a person who can only be convinced of the folly of Nazism if you engage it on economic grounds, then the appropriate response is not to engage them on economic grounds. The appropriate response is to punch that person in the face, hard, because they are an enemy of democracy, liberty, and life itself. If you're arguing with a person who can be convinced of the folly of Naziism with an economic argument, and you choose not to make that argument because it gives you bad feels, you are a moron. The notion that "actually immigrants (or jews) are good for our economy" is somehow a terrible, immoral argument is just insane.
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Aug 16, 2017 01:37
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Its turns out when you support a social order thats moral insofar as it doesn't impede the interests of capital and social cohesion breaks down while the destitute are left to die because human life has no value beyond a vote, a violent social order of ethnic sectarianism emerges. Seizure of capital by the dominant tribe is the inevitable result of a political economy that boils down to kill or be killed. When the "left" party dismantles welfare and there's a bipartisan consensus that permanent war is the new normal, nothing really matters. The modern democrats are the remnant of the wing of the party that venerate their dismantling of welfare for women and children while exploiting an idpoll lexicon that's a mask for reactionary, largely white, bourgeois interests. The Republican party is emptying out, which means the remaining Republicans are only going to be crazier and nazi-er. GOP doesn't like the decorum of the crazy at the moment, but as the lunatics stay to vote and the donor pool strangles them more so that they support insane white nationalists as the only way to keep votes, while moderate Republicans are becoming conservative Democrats, and democrats are starting to bleed into the DSA. The Democrats threw women under the bus real loving quick, and you're acting a little unrealistic if you expect the party that betrayed women and children to be too principled to embrace racism. Once the white nationalist vote becomes defined enough to pander to, and GOP goes full nazi ensuring minorities either disengage, or start supporting the DSA, what do you think the democrats are going to do? https://twitter.com/randygdub/status/796229362643152896
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Aug 16, 2017 01:38
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