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Tom Perez B/K/M? This poll is closed. |
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| B |
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77 | 25.50% |
| K |
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160 | 52.98% |
| M |
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65 | 21.52% |
| Total: | 229 votes | ||
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WampaLord posted:Untrue, there have been times the centrists aren't posting and yet the thread manages to move along just fine. Please do not encourage them, I'm serious. God created centrists to train the faithful.
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Aug 25, 2017 06:59
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Every single centrist who has subscribed to the alt-left smear has done more to validate Trump and the alt-right than a Bernie bro who voted for Trump.
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Aug 25, 2017 07:16
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Calibanibal posted:When the centrists send their people, they’re not sending their best. They’re bringing insults. They’re bringing shitposts. They’re trolls. And some, I assume, are good people This should be in the OP.
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Aug 25, 2017 07:16
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If we're shaming people for making arguments against their purported allies which Trump cynically co-opted to facilitate and legitimize white supremacy, lets do "Clinton foundation", "DNC cheated", and "Wall Street speeches" next.
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Aug 25, 2017 07:30
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Aug 25, 2017 07:31
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VitalSigns posted:You were asked a question about the past: "Obama abandoned promises he made in his platform; how can you point to the platform but then tell people they shouldn't expect it to be carried out" and your response was that of course the platform is a lie because the stupid untrustworthy voters wouldn't have voted for Obama if he'd said "I'm going to bail out the banks while your homes go into foreclosure, then protect Wall Street from any criminal charges even if they're flagrantly violating the law and illegally kicking you out of your homes, then I'll pass Romneycare, try to cut Social Security as hard as I can, keep torturing people in Guantanamo for eight years, and Afghanistan will become our forever war as I send soldiers to die who aren't old enough to remember how the war started" And we are right back to "Dad said he'd take us to Disneyland, but he won't cause he's a mean meany poophead! Losing his job is just an excuse!" And you wonder why you need to be treated like children. See, here's how it goes - being aspirational makes you all throw tantrums when reality arrives. Being strictly realistic makes you throw tantrums. So clearly the only option for dealing with you is lying.
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Aug 25, 2017 07:36
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friend this is no way to treat children
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Aug 25, 2017 07:38
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"Can you believe Trump started using some of the bullshit we've been flinging at each other against us?!?" Yes. It's been happening for 18 loving months, I'm glad you've finally got him figured out.
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Aug 25, 2017 07:39
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WampaLord posted:This style of communication doesn't get us anywhere. You have to engage with what people are saying, not make up strawmen and debate them. Someone responded to the objective fact that Trump ran a campaign based on unethical and illegal tactics including collaborating with Russia, by claiming there is no proof. I pointed out that's a right wing screeching point untethered to reality, someone tried to claim that doubting the idea that there is no proof is like doubting the sky is blue. Where is the strawmanning in pointing out that they were suggesting Trumps illegal actions had no proof?
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Aug 25, 2017 07:41
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 You meanies pointed out some of Abuela's flaws, you deserve to be slandered with made up accusations that basically amount to a red scare
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Aug 25, 2017 07:42
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Anyway, what happened that even Fulchrum suddenlz feels he can crawl out of his hole without everybody recoiling in disgust?
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Aug 25, 2017 07:44
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Fulchrum posted:Someone responded to the objective fact that Trump ran a campaign based on unethical and illegal tactics including collaborating with Russia, by claiming there is no proof. I pointed out that's a right wing screeching point untethered to reality, someone tried to claim that doubting the idea that there is no proof is like doubting the sky is blue. Where is the strawmanning in pointing out that they were suggesting Trumps illegal actions had no proof? Calm down and try this again, because I have no idea what you're saying with these words. Maybe quote people's actual words and engage with them instead of making up what you think happened?
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Aug 25, 2017 07:44
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steinrokkan posted:
All Hillary's talk about Russia is going to cause world war 3! She's just redscaring about Putin's puppet because she's a bloodlusty warhawk/ wants to distract from her loss. Did Trump adopt these noted factual and not at all made up arguments from the left to further his ends, during the campaign and after? My memory is hazy. The bad Dems thread kvetching about Trump coopting "alt-left" when y'all traffic daily in the arguments against democrats that trump coopted to win the election is just 
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Aug 25, 2017 07:57
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Majorian posted:This should be in the OP. done!
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Aug 25, 2017 07:58
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JeffersonClay posted:All Hillary's talk about Russia is going to cause world war 3! She's just redscaring about Putin's puppet because she's a bloodlusty warhawk/ wants to distract from her loss. Motherfucker I was as big a Hillaryman as you currently are before November 8th. I was all in for Hill-dawg, I actually made several dozen posts arguing how she would be a good President to the Bernie crowd before the election. And then the election happened. I took a month or so away from D&D and politics and I reconsidered everything I thought I knew, and realized the truth, Bernie Would Have Won. I invite you to try to do the same.
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Aug 25, 2017 08:04
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WampaLord posted:Motherfucker I was as big a Hillaryman as you currently are before November 8th. I was all in for Hill-dawg, I actually made several dozen posts arguing how she would be a good President to the Bernie crowd before the election. more like berniebros took you to a secret blacksite and brainwashed you for a month wake up from your cultist stupor!
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Aug 25, 2017 08:07
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Peachfart posted:Please don't call everyone a Nazi, it gives cover to actual Nazis and white supremacists.
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Aug 25, 2017 08:12
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JeffersonClay posted:"Can you believe Trump started using some of the bullshit we've been flinging at each other against us?!?"
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Aug 25, 2017 08:14
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WampaLord posted:Motherfucker I was as big a Hillaryman as you currently are before November 8th. I was all in for Hill-dawg, I actually made several dozen posts arguing how she would be a good President to the Bernie crowd before the election.  Kilroy posted:Dude I was basically JeffersonClay until Nov 8 2016, the only difference is I learn from unexpected events, rather than rationalize them.
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Aug 25, 2017 08:17
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JeffersonClay posted:
The difference is our arguments were objectively true.
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Aug 25, 2017 08:47
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WampaLord posted:Motherfucker I was as big a Hillaryman as you currently are before November 8th. I was all in for Hill-dawg, I actually made several dozen posts arguing how she would be a good President to the Bernie crowd before the election. Well don't be disappointed when the resurgent centrist tide leaves you behind, and you won't get any of the crumbs thrown by Abuela Kamala to her pragmatic henchmen! I wonder if the suicidally stubborn defense of failed ideologies and parties is basically just a sunk cost fallacy, if these people have spent so much of their own self in building up a worthless political project that they can't comprehend now it's time to abandon it even if it has paid nothing back to them in dividends. steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 08:56 on Aug 25, 2017 |
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Aug 25, 2017 08:53
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Fulchrum posted:And we are right back to "Dad said he'd take us to Disneyland, but he won't cause he's a mean meany poophead! Losing his job is just an excuse!" No sorry most of that list was not forced on him by Republicans. Republicans didn't make Obama protect white collar criminals so hard that even establishment Democrats said 'hey what the gently caress', or leave homeowners to twist while making GBS threads money all over the people who crashed the economy in the first place, or ignore economists on the stimulus and pass something too small and too heavy on inefficient tax cuts, or mass murder Arabic children from the air, or flail around in Afghanistan with no plan and no hope of leaving, or illegally spy on us etc etc. He did that all in his own, because that's what he believes in. Look you and I, we're on the same side. So let's be pragmatic. Ok here's the problem: 1. With a credible leftist platform we can win, without it we can't 2. But we can't keep winning if we break our promises, we have to make a good faith effort to implement it to the best of our ability Where do we go from here, Pragmatic Man?
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Aug 25, 2017 11:39
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The difference between Kilroy and JC can be summed up as the former is a white Floridian who voted for Trump and the latter voted for Abuela
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Aug 25, 2017 12:40
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shrike82 posted:The difference between Kilroy and JC can be summed up as the former is a white Floridian who voted for Trump and the latter voted for Abuela I'm like 99% sure he voted for Hillary and also that you shouldn't be throwing stones in the "lol you voted for Trump" department.
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Aug 25, 2017 12:45
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Nah, I'm a white progressive that voted for Trump to punish the centrists and I'll do it again in 2020 against Corey Booker
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Aug 25, 2017 12:46
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shrike82 posted:Nah, I'm a white progressive that voted for Trump to punish the centrists and I'll do it again in 2020 against Corey Booker You are Very Dumb. 
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Aug 25, 2017 12:47
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shrike82 posted:Nah, I'm a white progressive that voted for Trump to punish the centrists and I'll do it again in 2020 against Corey Booker it's not really punishing the centrists to re-elect their guy
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Aug 25, 2017 12:51
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My vote would go (in order) - 1) Tulsi Gabbard 2) Gary Johnson 3) Trump
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Aug 25, 2017 12:52
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shrike82 posted:My vote would go (in order) - "white progressive"
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Aug 25, 2017 12:55
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I just don't get how the "well Hillary won the primary, therefore she was the best candidate" argument really holds water. Of the last four time it's really been used, the Democratic primary has picked one winner. You can argue maybe that Gore did win and had the election stolen, but like with Hillary it was absurdly close enough that it could happen. Who knows if Bernie would have won or not, but arguing that since he lost the Democratic primary then he for sure would have lost the general means that the Democrats REALLY need to work on their stable when their sure fire system of picking the best candidate means they have nothing but losers and one Obama.
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Aug 25, 2017 13:00
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dunno what kinda melted brain you have to have to think "hmm, the democrats suck, i'm gonna vote for the fascist!!" that's just sad. if you're a leftist, at least vote for the socialist party or write in bernie sanders or something. geez
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Aug 25, 2017 13:20
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Just so you guys know, when the left inevitably take over the democratic party and democratise it, all but one or two of the centrist apologists will stop posting entirely and the remaining one(s) will become a cliche of bad faith arguing because they like the attention You're just in the bit before that when the incredulous rage is at its peak
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Aug 25, 2017 13:23
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brian posted:Just so you guys know, when the left inevitably take over the democratic party and democratise it, all but one or two of the centrist apologists will stop posting entirely and the remaining one(s) will become a cliche of bad faith arguing because they like the attention My six figure consulting job! No! Precious! 
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Aug 25, 2017 13:36
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brian posted:Just so you guys know, when the left inevitably take over the democratic party not gonna happen, too much money on the line I mean that in the way that the centrists will scuttle the boat before letting anyone else drive it
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Aug 25, 2017 13:55
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brian posted:Just so you guys know, when the left inevitably take over the democratic party and democratise it, all but one or two of the centrist apologists will stop posting entirely and the remaining one(s) will become a cliche of bad faith arguing because they like the attention If history is any indication, 25% of them will just straight shift to the GOP. Party unity only works in one direction!
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Aug 25, 2017 15:13
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The thing about the Russia narrative is that no one outside of the beltway press and centrists that can't admit that the incarnate avatar of their world view legitimately lost loving cares. At all. Honestly, why should they? Their lives don't change if the President is selling our country out to Russian oligarchs instead of strictly selling it off to American oligarchs.
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Aug 25, 2017 15:24
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Iron Twinkie posted:The thing about the Russia narrative is that no one outside of the beltway press and centrists that can't admit that the incarnate avatar of their world view legitimately lost loving cares. At all. Honestly, why should they? Their lives don't change if the President is selling our country out to Russian oligarchs instead of strictly selling it off to American oligarchs. This misses the entire reason why Putin is a problem, which is that he is intentionally funding and assisting far right nationalist movements and parties across the West and having a degree of success. And, you know, invading his neighbors and annexing their poo poo, but I guess whatever to that right? Successful far right parties are bad for leftists. 
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Aug 25, 2017 15:36
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I think some people will care if it comes out that he committed verified illegal behavior. Not enough to really lose his base but probably do some damage. Of course until then, yeah no one cares about Russia and banking on that to win elections by default is a very dangerous strategy from the Democrats. Russia basically playing a one sided information war with us is a real problem that we need to address (and there's no loving way the GOP will do poo poo about it since it's helping them now), but it's not going to result in dissatisfied voters coming to the polls in large numbers.
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Aug 25, 2017 15:36
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Radish posted:I think some people will care if it comes out that he committed verified illegal behavior. Not enough to really lose his base but probably do some damage. Of course until then, yeah no one cares about Russia and banking on that to win elections by default is a very dangerous strategy from the Democrats. Russia basically playing a one sided information war with us is a real problem that we need to address (and there's no loving way the GOP will do poo poo about it since it's helping them now), but it's not going to result in dissatisfied voters coming to the polls in large numbers. I agree. I think that until there is ironclad indisputable evidence we should treat the Russia thing as if it didn't happen and isn't important (though I do believe it happened and is important) and even with evidence a lot of people just won't care very much. The Democrats are dumb to bet the farm on the Russia thing and I think they shouldn't, but I think there's a distinction between "the Russia thing isn't a useful angle of attack" and "the Russia thing materially doesn't matter." It's actually super bad that there's a foreign power willing to use it's intelligence service and money to support far right parties, just as it's always been bad when American leaders did the same. It's very, very bad for far right parties to get any kind of help because left wing parties won't be getting that help.
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Aug 25, 2017 15:47
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The Russian narrative could possibly work if people were actually rooting for Dems and incensed that they had lost. Instead the support from most people is begrudging at best, so why should they care about some trickery that has not even been proven.
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Aug 25, 2017 15:52
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