Comic Book Movie Megathread: Bubble? What bubble?

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Cinema Discusso > Comic Book Movie Megathread: Bubble? What bubble?

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porfiria: Dec 10, 2008; by Modern Video Games

He's a Neutral Good Paladin in CapAm 1, but I feel like he's kinda just a dude after that. Haven't seen CapAm 2 though.

# ? Oct 3, 2017 22:20

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# ? May 24, 2024 22:50

KVeezy3: Aug 18, 2005; Airport Music for Black Folk

BravestOfTheLamps posted:

Tell me, what actually makes Captain America a person of "impeccable moral character" in the Marvel movies?

His virginity.

# ? Oct 3, 2017 22:21

RBA Starblade: Apr 28, 2008; Going Home.

Games Idiot Court Jester

BravestOfTheLamps posted:

Tell me, what actually makes Captain America a person of "impeccable moral character" in the Marvel movies?

He punches nazis a lot

# ? Oct 3, 2017 22:28

BravestOfTheLamps: Oct 12, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Lipstick Apathy

Rough Lobster posted:

He's usually right due to his unerring moral compass and his actions have led to the savings of countless innocent lives while thwarting evil at every turn, often at great personal sacrifice.

This reads like a Bush admin memo.

# ? Oct 3, 2017 22:29

Brother Entropy: Dec 27, 2009

BravestOfTheLamps posted:

This reads like a Bush admin memo.

my first thought was back of a tom clancy paperback but we're basically saying the same thing

# ? Oct 3, 2017 22:32

Rough Lobster: May 27, 2009; Don't be such a squid, bro

BravestOfTheLamps posted:

This reads like a Bush admin memo.

You've failed to make a counter argument to the true and correct thing I have posted.

# ? Oct 3, 2017 22:39

Crisco Kid: Jan 14, 2008; Where does the wind come from that blows upon your face, that fans the pages of your book?

McCloud posted:

Reminder: This was a guy who said "Sometimes a soldier should just follow orders" when Stark questioned Shield

Man, the difference between a Whedon-written Cap and a Markus/McFeely Cap is pretty nuts.

# ? Oct 3, 2017 22:48

BravestOfTheLamps: Oct 12, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Lipstick Apathy

Rough Lobster posted:

You've failed to make a counter argument to the true and correct thing I have posted.

What's happened is that you've bought into the moral universe of the Avengers movies. Consider what "thwarting evil" actually means in this context: what is the evil that he's thwarted? Loki and Chitauri don't actually represent any believable evil (what does Loki actually want to do as ruler of the world, aside from vague promises of rule by fear?). SHIELD-Hydra is naive tinfoil conspiracy fodder: what if CIA bad because Nazis? You can't take him seriously for overcoming that.

He didn't even kill Tony Stark when he could have. That's genuine evil, un-thwarted.

# ? Oct 3, 2017 22:50

Megaman's Jockstrap: Jul 16, 2000; What a horrible thread to have a post.

It's funny because Cap's a rube who cares about the Rule of Law and if he signs the Slovenia Accord feels honor-bound to follow them.

Tony, as a corporate warmongering thief, knows that laws are meaningless and will be ignored by the powerful (i.e. him).

I thought they did a good job with that part.

# ? Oct 3, 2017 22:51

Mordiceius: Nov 10, 2007; If you think calling me names is gonna get a rise out me, think again. I like my life as an idiot!

Reminds me of the Piers Anthony. I'm that, God and Satan signed an agreement to not meddle with Earth. God is honor bound to not break the agreement whereas Satan immediately starts loving with mortals.

# ? Oct 3, 2017 23:06

Neo Rasa: Mar 8, 2007; Everyone should play DUKE games.

porfiria posted:

He's a Neutral Good Paladin in CapAm 1, but I feel like he's kinda just a dude after that. Haven't seen CapAm 2 though.

He's really awesome in 2 and becomes a Lawful Good Paladin when he determines that (mega spoilers if you do plan on seeing it) The US government is fully compromised by fascist assholes and says outright that SHIELD and Hydra as the same thing and then he performs a 9/11 on the settings equivalent of the NSA headquarters. Also the movie predicted the surveillance level stuff getting announced recently about using facial recognition/doxxing to learn if you might vote against the ruling party so you can be rounded up in advance. And we see that foreshadowed a little when Samuel L. Jackson is pulled over by some cops and ends up having to machinegun his way out of them to not get killed just for not being down with their new surveillance initiatives. It went in a pretty bold direction for a mainstream PG-13 mega-budget summer comic book movie because he doesn't do a there's some bad apples/both sides should be listened to thing it's just straight up SHIELD has to end so naturally none of that actually gets brought up again in future films and everything falls nicely back into place. Great sound design across the entire movie too and he also has the second coolest costume in it after his outfit in the first one.

# ? Oct 3, 2017 23:25

McCloud: Oct 27, 2005

Neo Rasa posted:

because he doesn't do a there's some bad apples/both sides should be listened to thing it's just straight up SHIELD has to end

There's a moment when he gives a stupid speech and then everyone in shield divides into team good guys and team bad guys, thus undermining the point that sci fi CIA is toxic and full of assholes. Instead the morale becomes that these agencies must be vigilant because bad apples can sneak in and lead you astray, totally undercutting the point it's trying to make.

# ? Oct 3, 2017 23:36

josh04: Oct 19, 2008; "THE FLASH IS THE REASON
TO RACE TO THE THEATRES"
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Rough Lobster posted:

He's usually right due to his unerring moral compass and his actions have led to the savings of countless innocent lives while thwarting evil at every turn, often at great personal sacrifice.

E: sources: All Captain America and Avengers movies

He didn't thwart Hydra very well, seeing as they were running the USA.

# ? Oct 3, 2017 23:43

Crisco Kid: Jan 14, 2008; Where does the wind come from that blows upon your face, that fans the pages of your book?

McCloud posted:

There's a moment when he gives a stupid speech and then everyone in shield divides into team good guys and team bad guys, thus undermining the point that sci fi CIA is toxic and full of assholes. Instead the morale becomes that these agencies must be vigilant because bad apples can sneak in and lead you astray, totally undercutting the point it's trying to make.

I dunno, he forced everyone to make a choice. I found the sci-fi CIA turning into a huge Mexican standoff that devolved into a close-quarters shootout pretty horrifying. Reminds me of the collapse of Eastern Bloc governments where the military and secret police turned against each other and started waging war in the streets.

And, at least in early 2014, I thought it was cool as hell to see a superhero blockbuster where the handsome blond American-flag uniformed protagonist "won" by literally burning down a military industrial complex while refusing to punch his opponent to death.

# ? Oct 3, 2017 23:47

Rough Lobster: May 27, 2009; Don't be such a squid, bro

josh04 posted:

He didn't thwart Hydra very well, seeing as they were running the USA.

Being prevented from finishing the job by 80 years of cryosleep tend to do that, but he got around to it. See Marvel's fantastic Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier for further details.

# ? Oct 4, 2017 00:20

Electromax: May 6, 2007

The big reveal in Thor 3 is that the Odin family is basically Kim Jong Un'ing Asgard from even cooler future stuff in the rest of the universe.

# ? Oct 4, 2017 00:21

Brother Entropy: Dec 27, 2009

Rough Lobster posted:

You've failed to make a counter argument to the true and correct thing I have posted.

all you really posted was 'he's the protagonist of an action movie' but wordier which has nothing to do with morality

cap is right because it suits the narrative for him to be right, not because of any strong moral stance posed by the character

# ? Oct 4, 2017 00:27

got any sevens: Feb 9, 2013; by Cyrano4747

[quote="�Brother Entropy�" post="�477025918�"]
civil war is the product you get when you make a story explicitly about politics but want to avoid any possible stance that could impact revenue

so a story about justified force and culpability is actually just about tony stark�s feelings
[/quote]

This is why i will never bother watching it

# ? Oct 4, 2017 00:54

MonsieurChoc: Oct 12, 2013; Every species can smell its own extinction.

Let's face it, Winter Soldier went as far as it's possible for a big budget Hollywood movie to go these days. The American propaganda machine is just too powerful to really go after the Military-Industrial Complex nowadays.

# ? Oct 4, 2017 00:55

UmOk: Aug 3, 2003

Iron Man/Tony Stark are totally like if billionaire Donald J Trump suddenly got access to insane super weapons and wanted to use them to kill brown people.

# ? Oct 4, 2017 01:07

Rough Lobster: May 27, 2009; Don't be such a squid, bro

Brother Entropy posted:

cap is right

Correct.

# ? Oct 4, 2017 01:15

josh04: Oct 19, 2008; "THE FLASH IS THE REASON
TO RACE TO THE THEATRES"
_{This title contains sponsored content.}

Rough Lobster posted:

Being prevented from finishing the job by 80 years of cryosleep tend to do that, but he got around to it. See Marvel's fantastic Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier for further details.

Excuses, excuses.

# ? Oct 4, 2017 01:22

The MSJ: May 17, 2010

Jenny Slate and Michelle Williams are in the Venom movie with Tom Hardy.

# ? Oct 4, 2017 01:38

Snowman_McK: Jan 31, 2010

got any sevens posted:

This is why i will never bother watching it

It's the most astoundingly nothing movie I've seen. The broader point about oversight makes no impact on the plot, but neither does the personal struggle between the two men, since Cap forgives him at the end.

# ? Oct 4, 2017 02:21

BravestOfTheLamps: Oct 12, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Lipstick Apathy

It explains a lot that people who see a superhero character as a moral exemplar also parse characters in terms of the D&D alignment system.

# ? Oct 4, 2017 08:49

Ghost Leviathan: Mar 2, 2017; Exploration is ill-advised.

I like to think it's Cap realising Tony is brokebrained and never gonna really change, and also has a huge man crush on him, so he leaves his options open in case he needs backup sometime.

# ? Oct 4, 2017 09:11

Gyges: Aug 4, 2004; NOW NO ONE
RECOGNIZE HULK

BravestOfTheLamps posted:

All that muscle talk and still no explanation how the Avengers are not fascist.

Can you be a fascist if you don't give a gently caress about any nation or state? The Avengers are a collection of Autocrats, Anarchic-Libertarians, Philosopher Kings, Ideologues, and Mercenaries. All of them of course have hearts of gold, even if sometimes that heart is coated in tin, but none of them are fascist.

Brother Entropy posted:

civil war is the product you get when you make a story explicitly about politics but want to avoid any possible stance that could impact revenue

so a story about justified force and culpability is actually just about tony stark's feelings

Having read the comic attempt at being about politics, the version without real politics is infinitely better.

McCloud posted:

There's a moment when he gives a stupid speech and then everyone in shield divides into team good guys and team bad guys, thus undermining the point that sci fi CIA is toxic and full of assholes. Instead the morale becomes that these agencies must be vigilant because bad apples can sneak in and lead you astray, totally undercutting the point it's trying to make.

The point was that SHIELD wasn't lead astray. It was ruined from almost the founding. The agency did not take the time to make sure they did not become a monster when carrying out their mission of fighting monsters. The original sin of inviting Hydra in happened almost immediately after the agency's founding when they when full operation paperclip. The speech was about uncovering the good apples left in the shipping container of rotten ones.

# ? Oct 4, 2017 18:46

Dark_Tzitzimine: Oct 9, 2012; by R. Guyovich

Ready for more unsourced plot details? This time for Flashpoint

quote:

The first draft of the script was penned by Joby Harold, who previously wrote Guy Ritchie's "King Arthur: Legend of the Sword" and it is only loosely based on the comics' storyline. WB executives are apparently very happy and are planning for release the movie in 2020 or 2021 (depends on schedule).

Like the comics, the script follows Barry Allen�s attempt to prevent his mother�s murder and his father�s wrongful incarceration. DCEU�S Barry is younger than previous adaptations. He got his powers in college, and has just graduated and got a job as an assistant in Central City police�s forensics lab. He�s also the youngest and least experienced member of the Justice League, and has a secret crush on Iris West, who is a rookie reporter that spends a lot of time down at the crime lab looking for scoops. The movie is essentially a �coming of age� story for him.

Eobard Thawne is the main villain. He�s from the future and was obsessed with the Flash, reproducing the accident that created him and going back in time to kill Barry�s mother and prevent Barry from becoming the Flash, only to find out that due to a time paradox that was the event that steered Barry towards becoming the Flash. The Reverse Flash needs to exist for Barry to become the Flash and the Flash needs to exist for Thawne to become the Reverse Flash. Barry�s connection to the Speed Force is stronger because it�s �natural�, and when Barry creates the Flashpoint timeline, Thawne basically becomes a living paradox and can do whatever he wants.

Thawne is responsible for preventing the members of the Justice League from becoming heroes and subjugated the world with an army of meta-human criminals. Superman was captured the government as a child, Bruce Wayne�s parents never died and he became a douchebag playboy (yes, no Thomas Wayne Batman), Wonder Woman never left the Amazons� island, Aquaman is a troublemaking drifter who never found out about Atlantis, and Cyborg spends his days under surveillance at S.T.A.R. Labs. Barry convinces Flashpoint Iris to help him regain his powers, in the process working up the courage to express his feelings for her, and then goes around recruiting the heroes and encouraging them to remember who they were and fight back against Thawne�s oppressive rule. So the least experienced hero that everyone treats as a kid must rise to the occasion and essentially lead the League and help them rediscover the heroes within. And of course ultimately Barry is forced to let his mother die by Thawne's hands to fix the timeline.

WB�s goal here is to get everyone back for what is essentially a Flash-centric stealth "Justice League" movie. Gal Gadot, Ray Fisher and Jason Momoa are already in, and Henry Cavill and Ben Affleck are currently in talks. Affleck is the only one that might not be up for it, so if that happens there�s a chance they go back to the Thomas Batman idea (JFM is down for it). Kiersey Clemons and Billy Crudup are in, and Vera Farmiga is currently the top choice to play Barry�s mother, who is supposed to have a pretty big role.

For Thawne, WB is aiming for a big name and has a �watchlist� that includes Colin Farrell, Michael Fassbender, Jake Gyllenhall, Oscar Isaac, Joel Edgerton, Ed Skrein, Adam Driver, Dan Stevens, Matthew Goode, Eric Bana, Alexander Skarsgard and Tom Hiddleston. Among others. Since a "watchlist" is basically a bunch of producers throwing names around, none of them have actually been approached and there's no guarantee they'll ever be once a director steps in and brings his own vision to the project, but it gives you a nice idea of what direction they�re going for.

Speaking of directors, Robert Zemeckis is still top of the list, but they�re talking to other people like Michael Bay, Matthew Vaughn and Duncan Jones. A lot of directors have already turned it down, like Sam Raimi and Tim Miller, since it�s a pretty intimidating project. It�s low-key by now but is expected to be WB�s main tentpole release of whatever year it comes out, and the first "Justice League" movie since 2017 since the actual sequel is treading muddy waters right now. So the execs are prepared to handle a budget on the upswing of $200M+, and are going for established directors who can manage their budget well and keep on schedule. Bay is actually high up the list, right after Zemeckis, and he�s actually shown interest. But the whole thing is still early and they're in no rush to lock anyone down. The first order of business is avoid troubled shoots like "Suicide Squad" and "Justice League". They want to get it right on the first go.

# ? Oct 4, 2017 18:53

John Wick of Dogs: Mar 4, 2017; A real hellraiser

If it's Michael Fassbender I'm gonna call him Michael Fastbender

# ? Oct 4, 2017 19:00

Guy A. Person: May 23, 2003

Al Borland Corp. posted:

If it's Michael Fassbender I'm gonna call him Michael Fastbender

drat good

# ? Oct 4, 2017 19:25

Doronin: Nov 22, 2002; Don't be scared

Gyges posted:

Having read the comic attempt at being about politics, the version without real politics is infinitely better.

As lame as the comic story ended up being, I was still surprised at how much better the movie version was.

# ? Oct 4, 2017 19:50

Diabetic: Sep 29, 2006; When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world Diabeetus.

Dark_Tzitzimine posted:

Ready for more unsourced plot details? This time for Flashpoint

Fassbender or Alexander Skarsgard I could see playing a psycho like Thawne pretty well. Also, one step closer to Jeffrey Dean Morgan as best Batman.

# ? Oct 4, 2017 21:23

Neo Rasa: Mar 8, 2007; Everyone should play DUKE games.

I.....would be totally down with a Michael Bay Flash movie.

I'm still sad that WB blew it in like 2008-ish when George Miller was attached to direct both Batman/Superman: World's Finest and Justice League, like can you even imagine?

# ? Oct 4, 2017 21:42

John Wick of Dogs: Mar 4, 2017; A real hellraiser

Neo Rasa posted:

I.....would be totally down with a Michael Bay Flash movie.

I'm still sad that WB blew it in like 2008-ish when George Miller was attached to direct both Batman/Superman: World's Finest and Justice League, like can you even imagine?

Nerds in the 2009 where this is reality: The loving director of BABE!?

# ? Oct 4, 2017 21:45

Detective No. 27: Jun 7, 2006

And Happy Feet. They would be talking about how George Miller is too soft.

# ? Oct 4, 2017 21:54

The D in Detroit: Oct 13, 2012

It all worked out for the best tho with Snyder taking over.

# ? Oct 4, 2017 22:38

Leon Trotsky 2012: Aug 27, 2009; YOU CAN TRUST ME!*

_{*Israeli Government-affiliated poster}

Upcoming Marvel news.

https://twitter.com/TheOnion/status/915610998979129345

# ? Oct 4, 2017 23:05

The MSJ: May 17, 2010

# ? Oct 4, 2017 23:41

porfiria: Dec 10, 2008; by Modern Video Games

BravestOfTheLamps posted:

It explains a lot that people who see a superhero character as a moral exemplar also parse characters in terms of the D&D alignment system.

My tongue is always and ever firmly in my cheek. I think even known communist SMG agrees that Cap is a True Hero in Captain America: The First Avenger though.

# ? Oct 5, 2017 00:16

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# ? May 24, 2024 22:50

SolidSnakesBandana: Jul 1, 2007; Infinite ammo

Wasn't there this moment in Civil War where Stark is arguing with Cap, and right as Cap is about to cave someone says some dumb poo poo and Cap becomes even more stubborn?

# ? Oct 5, 2017 00:50

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Cinema Discusso > Comic Book Movie Megathread: Bubble? What bubble?

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