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Solkanar512 posted:Crossposted from the antifa thread: Tech is such an interesting field, I'm an independent that employs a few folk and would love it if they were part of a union. Point me in the direction of this effort.
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Oct 6, 2017 01:06
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Venuz Patrol posted:you're the one who whined about the article being too mean to tech workers in the first place. when people roll their eyes at you, they're rolling their eyes at your immediate impulsive desire to defend a multibillion dollar industry No, I said that the guy was too loving lazy to talk to one, not that it was too mean. If there were so many there (and I have no reason to believe that the author is lying), why couldn't he interview one? Isn't that what a loving journalist does? Pointing out that "there are race issues all over" and that the PNW has had a history of these issues is not the same as erasing the fact that it's also a problem in the tech industry nor is it the same as "defending a multibillion dollar industry", whatever the gently caress that means. How about next time you read what I wrote and we skip the passive-aggressive bullshit, ok?
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Oct 6, 2017 01:31
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Solkanar512 posted:How about next time ... we skip the passive-aggressive bullshit, ok? Sir, you're in the PNW thread.
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Oct 6, 2017 03:42
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seiferguy posted:85% of Boeing execs are old white males, though. Were we talking about executive level employees?
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Oct 6, 2017 05:03
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Solkanar512 posted:No, I said that the guy was too loving lazy to talk to one, not that it was too mean. If there were so many there (and I have no reason to believe that the author is lying), why couldn't he interview one? Isn't that what a loving journalist does? Are you really that dumb that you're confused about why the dude didn't interview one of the actual nazis at a nazi gathering about being a nazi after sneaking in? What the gently caress? That's the bug up your butt?
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Oct 6, 2017 05:41
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"Excuse me Mr. Fellow Nazi, I was wondering if I could ask you a question about your, er, our Nazi ways. Please speak clearly into my backpack."
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Oct 6, 2017 05:51
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If he was truly there under the guise of being a filmmaker, I wonder why he didn't try to just walk in with a camera and a laminated badge. Talk about a missed opportunity. All of those bad haircuts.
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Oct 6, 2017 06:33
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Teabag Dome Scandal posted:Are you really that dumb that you're confused about why the dude didn't interview one of the actual nazis at a nazi gathering about being a nazi after sneaking in? What the gently caress? That's the bug up your butt? Given that he talked to a whole bunch of other Nazis there, why is this such an unreasonable expectation? If he's going to go on and on about how there were "so many techbros" then gather the evidence that supports the claim rather than relying on "I heard a bunch of dudes talking about code" and then only speaking to anyone but them. It's basic journalism to have sources for poo poo, it's not that difficult. But if you're going to make a link between profession and being a Nazi, there better be more than just "I overheard some dudes talking about code or computers or some poo poo, I dunno they must be techbros." And let's skip the inevitable bullshit "he just wants evidence because he doesn't believe there's a problem" posts. It's pretty loving clear that there's a problem. Like no poo poo, it's obvious. But this problem has existed long before Amazon, before Microsoft, Boeing and so on. Historical context is important.
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Oct 6, 2017 13:18
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The Stranger's piece was poorly written sensationalist crap in the hope to get ad revenue. The whole piece can be summed up as "You hate hipsters, you hate tech, meet your worst nightmare. The hipster tech nazi!" I'm not saying that coddled white guys in tech don't have an important part to play in fascism, but this article didn't really show those connections, or why tech dude would support facism. It didn't even give concrete evidence, it just repeated tropes that could have easily been made up. I especially love the very detailed description of the dude twirling his mustache. We all know the hipster mustache style that he is referring to. So it was very detailed, but the detail was meaningless. As others have said, he should have dug in and gotten something out of them. Mention a name of a company they work at or something. Of course The Stranger wouldn't directly call out a company like that, because they would be too worried about backlash. Instead, they write pieces like this that allow liberals to feel superior to techies, which is a pretty easy thing to reinforce in this city. Compare this to the Buzzfeed article, and it really stands out as poo poo. The Buzzfeed article clearly had the advantage of containing documents, but it also clearly showed the connections between well know neo-nazis and their financial backers. Of course it doesn't play up the visceral hate people have for tech bros, so it wouldn't be as popular with people that just want a quick affirmation of their feelings, which is most readers of The Stranger.
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Oct 6, 2017 15:50
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Solkanar512 posted:Given that he talked to a whole bunch of other Nazis there, why is this such an unreasonable expectation? lol you're stretching so hard I'm surprised you haven't pulled a muscle. Gather the evidence? What a loving nerd. He went to a secret nazi gathering and wrote about what he observed. You're applying your own biased expectation on what you think journalism should be. If you want to castigate the guy for being a lovely writer or busting out boring tropes about the unfairly maligned techbro that's fine since its your opinion but being salty about him not getting specific info from one of these cretins and then publishing it is beyond stupid. lol "basic journalism" hahah I just can't get over it "its just basic journalism bro. you call someone a nazi techbro you drat well better be sure you interview them, do a technical skill check on a whiteboard, verify their linked in, demand pay stubs, and get a comment from their corporate HR" Teabag Dome Scandal fucked around with this message at 16:33 on Oct 6, 2017 |
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Oct 6, 2017 16:22
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That doesn't sound like what he said at all though? Are you guys having two different conversations?
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Oct 6, 2017 16:36
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HEY NONG MAN posted:That doesn't sound like what he said at all though? Are you guys having two different conversations? He's taking issue with the fact that the author said quote:According to my observations, the standard Seattle Nazi is a white male under 30 who either works in the tech industry or is going to school to work in the tech industry. “You’re also a coder? Do you mind if I send you something I’ve been working on?” I heard that more than once." quote:Two years ago, this method would have seemed like a total joke, but these guys really do mostly work in tech, and they were doing a lot of networking. Which if you read the article (I'm not sure he did) are the ONLY times it comes up in the entire piece. Now that I realize how little the article talks about the seattle type and tech(outside of the already mentioned mustache twirling) it's even funnier how upset he is by this lack of journalistic integrity. And that THIS is what some posters have glommed onto is really interesting.
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Oct 6, 2017 16:52
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Teabag Dome Scandal posted:He's taking issue with the fact that the author said Yeah, really insidious part of the article is the "secret agent" aspect of their strategy, hiring nazis and getting them in positions of authority at area companies in an effort to weed people out during the hiring process. The actual sector is kinda meaningless to me, and the fact the people are focusing only on the Techbro part is incredibly stupid.
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Oct 6, 2017 17:26
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Cactrot posted:Yeah, really insidious part of the article is the "secret agent" aspect of their strategy, hiring nazis and getting them in positions of authority at area companies in an effort to weed people out during the hiring process. The actual sector is kinda meaningless to me, and the fact the people are focusing only on the Techbro part is incredibly stupid. Have you read this? https://www.buzzfeed.com/josephbernstein/heres-how-breitbart-and-milo-smuggled-white-nationalism?utm_term=.vf5o7NzR3#.ygYApLKrR Seriously, go read that. It is a way better piece that actually maps out how they are using their influence and connections in a much more concrete way.
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Oct 6, 2017 17:32
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Perhaps the Stranger piece and the BuzzFeed piece had like different purposes or something
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Oct 6, 2017 17:38
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Teabag Dome Scandal posted:He's taking issue with the fact that the author said The author made it pretty loving clear that he was surrounded by tech workers but he couldn't be bothered to speak to one. The author made it pretty loving clear that he was talking about tech workers specifically. The comments on the Slog and on Twitter make several references to this, so I'm not the only one who interpreted it that way. You can't ignore that nor can you ignore the sorts of issues the mention of "techbros" bring up - as the sole cause of the housing crisis, as outsiders destroying Seattle's arts and culture, that they're terrible people who make too much money and the stereotype goes on and on. As mentioned above, this piece just comes off as a way to pretend that Nazis and the systemic bigotry that come with are new here that no self reflection is needed to solve this. quote:And that THIS is what some posters have glommed onto is really interesting. Again, stop it with the vague bullshit. Come out and say what you mean and we can discuss it. EDIT: Cactrot posted:Yeah, really insidious part of the article is the "secret agent" aspect of their strategy, hiring nazis and getting them in positions of authority at area companies in an effort to weed people out during the hiring process. The actual sector is kinda meaningless to me, and the fact the people are focusing only on the Techbro part is incredibly stupid. Which is why talking to one would have been really loving useful. gently caress, employees at major employers are ratted out all the time (a human trafficking ring comes to mind from last year) for terrible poo poo, so why not continue the good work? Solkanar512 fucked around with this message at 17:42 on Oct 6, 2017 |
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Oct 6, 2017 17:40
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Officer Sandvich posted:Perhaps the Stranger piece and the BuzzFeed piece had like different purposes or something DevNull posted:The Stranger's piece was poorly written sensationalist crap in the hope to get ad revenue. The whole piece can be summed up as "You hate hipsters, you hate tech, meet your worst nightmare. The hipster tech nazi!" I'm not saying that coddled white guys in tech don't have an important part to play in fascism, but this article didn't really show those connections, or why tech dude would support facism.
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Oct 6, 2017 17:42
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DevNull posted:Have you read this? https://www.buzzfeed.com/josephbernstein/heres-how-breitbart-and-milo-smuggled-white-nationalism?utm_term=.vf5o7NzR3#.ygYApLKrR I saw it on Twitter and got about halfway through before I got too disgusted to continue and lost the link. This poo poo is all bad, and it makes me very sad and angry.
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Oct 6, 2017 17:45
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https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/seattle-could-spend-a-bundle-defending-itself-kshama-sawant-in-defamation-suits/ Seattle Times is upset the city might have to pay litigation for Sawant because of the defamation lawsuits over lovely pigs upset that she called them murderers.
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Oct 6, 2017 19:29
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seiferguy posted:https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/seattle-could-spend-a-bundle-defending-itself-kshama-sawant-in-defamation-suits/
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Oct 6, 2017 19:32
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seiferguy posted:https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/seattle-could-spend-a-bundle-defending-itself-kshama-sawant-in-defamation-suits/ Don't worry, Bruce Harrell will almost certainly throw her under the bus.
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Oct 6, 2017 19:33
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anthonypants posted:Also a slumlord, because she called him a slumlord. And not without reason. Hey, he was totally just about to fix all the problems with those buildings!
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Oct 6, 2017 20:02
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anthonypants posted:Also a slumlord, because she called him a slumlord. And not without reason.  GRANDSTANDING
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Oct 6, 2017 20:34
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ElCondemn posted:I'd rather have refugees and immigrants than someone who thinks they deserve what they have because they "worked for it". Eh, lots of "immigrants and refugees" feel this way too. I've known just off the plane Gujarati dudes who run their businesses like petty tyrants and are infuriated by all the taxes they have to pay. Peachfart posted:Agreed. Refugees/immigrants bring culture and food and important perspectives. That guy seems to bring entitlement and whining. Officer Sandvich posted:Refugees and immigrants are way cooler than people who think like this. Have...you guys actually met or socialized with any immigrants/refugees? Had a conversation that goes beyond small talk? You'll find just as much viewpoint diversity among the immigrants as the native population. More, probably. My kid goes to a majority refugee/immigrant school, so most of the people I socialize with are families who came here from other parts of the world. Some are pretty liberal, but lots are very religious/conservative, and I've known kids I think would honestly be risking a beating if they came home with blue hair and a nose ring. I'm pro-immigration, and I'm glad they're here, but it feels like a lot of people are idealizing them simply because they're immigrants or refugees. Most of the people I've met would never vote republican, because of the anti-immigrant rhetoric, but their citizenship status doesn't mean they're automatically going to be your ideological allies, especially if your politics are those of your average PNW leftist.
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Oct 6, 2017 20:55
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herbaceous backson posted:Have...you guys actually met or socialized with any immigrants/refugees? Had a conversation that goes beyond small talk? Yes
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Oct 6, 2017 21:04
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herbaceous backson posted:Have...you guys actually met or socialized with any immigrants/refugees? Had a conversation that goes beyond small talk? Nobody but you said anything about liberalism or conservatism.
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Oct 6, 2017 21:14
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silicone thrills posted:Regardless of the tech bit - the white dudes getting into managerial positions and loving minorities out of jobs definitely seems like a real thing that is happening. My wife's experience, as a woman of color working in tech, is that she does get interviews pretty much constantly, but actually working with people sucks balls and she's either dismissed or talked down to as being "factually correct but too assertive" (a real quote from a performance review). The frequent interviews help mitigate the issue, as she has no issue bailing on a company when problems arise, but she also hasn't worked for any one company for more than 2 years, which she doesn't mind but does wonders contributing to my constant terror that said interviews will dry up and I'll no longer have a sugar mama to carry my worthless rear end.
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Oct 6, 2017 21:17
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reignonyourparade posted:Nobody but you said anything about liberalism or conservatism. A sentence like "Refugees and immigrants are way cooler than people who think like this." implies that refugees and immigrants, as a category, do not think like that, where "that" maps readily onto "conservative". Bingo bango fetishized Other.
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Oct 6, 2017 21:24
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herbaceous backson posted:Eh, lots of "immigrants and refugees" feel this way too. I've known just off the plane Gujarati dudes who run their businesses like petty tyrants and are infuriated by all the taxes they have to pay. lol 'I can only like diversity if it agrees with me' isn't a good look for you.
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Oct 6, 2017 22:02
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Also, you can win people over to your politics by making real and material efforts to improve their living conditions through shared struggle. There are few things more effective at persuading someone to a left politics than showing true solidarity in a time of need. And even if you don't win a given person over, there's also... I don't know, basic decency to account for? Not that this has ever been compulsory or even commonplace in the political sphere. Would be nice if it were though, no?
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Oct 6, 2017 22:11
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I can't read "I'm pro-immigration, but..." as anything but a giant concern troll.
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Oct 6, 2017 22:13
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[quote="“just another”" post="“477125557”"] A sentence like “Refugees and immigrants are way cooler than people who think like this.” implies that refugees and immigrants, as a category, do not think like that, where “that” maps readily onto “conservative”. Bingo bango fetishized Other. [/quote] Yes, this is all I was getting at. [quote="“seiferguy”" post="“477127282”"] I can’t read “I’m pro-immigration, but...” as anything but a giant concern troll. [/quote] A concern troll for more immigration? I'm talking about the way you guys talk about them, not their presence. [quote="“seiferguy”" post="“477127282”"] I can’t read “I’m pro-immigration, but...” as anything but a giant concern troll. [/quote] I can point out that a lot of Pacific northwesterners have an almost starry eyed sort of naïveté that comes out in conversation about immigration without being anti-immigrant myself. They aren't mutually exclusive positions. I grew up in the Los Angeles area, there's definitely a noticeable difference. herbaceous backson fucked around with this message at 23:03 on Oct 6, 2017 |
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Oct 6, 2017 22:58
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Has anyone followed up with UW, asking how they feel about having given Milo a platform? I don't think they did after he admitted he was a pedophile, but I think it would feel nice to continue to rub their nose in it.
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Oct 6, 2017 23:23
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herbaceous backson posted:Yes, this is all I was getting at. The way we talk about them? We were responding to some dickbag who thought he deserves to live here more than someone else because he "worked hard" to get here. This has nothing to do with how immigrants and refugees are seen and everything to do with how entitled assholes think they deserve more than someone else because of their perceived "hard work". herbaceous backson posted:I can point out that a lot of Pacific northwesterners have an almost starry eyed sort of naïveté that comes out in conversation about immigration without being anti-immigrant myself. They aren't mutually exclusive positions. Please tell us how we should feel and talk about immigration oh great wunderkind from the far off land of LA! edit: I am one of these immigrants you're talking about, I am under no illusion that people from other countries potentially have hosed up world-views and ideals. I'm not accepting of these views, but I'm not going to turn people away that need help just because some of them might think women shouldn't work or whatever. There are plenty of home grown Americans with these points of views. The only practical difference is that one group faces imminent death and starvation, the other had to "work really hard" to move to a city. ElCondemn fucked around with this message at 23:33 on Oct 6, 2017 |
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Oct 6, 2017 23:29
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anthonypants posted:Also a slumlord, because she called him a slumlord. And not without reason. Rent control all apartments throughout the state to $550 a month.
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Oct 7, 2017 02:11
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Freakazoid_ posted:Rent control all apartments throughout the state to $550 a month. I'm in favor of this because people would flood across the border from Oregon, driving down our own rents and making the Portland area less lovely and crowded.
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Oct 7, 2017 02:14
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Freakazoid_ posted:Rent control all apartments throughout the state to $550 a month.
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Oct 7, 2017 02:18
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anthonypants posted:I know there's people who oppose rent control in here, or claim to, so what do they think about the Carl Haglund law? Do they think it isn't rent control? Why in the hell aren't rent payments completely stopped when there are so many violations? Holy poo poo.
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Oct 7, 2017 02:42
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Solkanar512 posted:Why in the hell aren't rent payments completely stopped when there are so many violations? Holy poo poo. 
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Oct 7, 2017 02:43
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anthonypants posted:I know there's people who oppose rent control in here, or claim to, so what do they think about the Carl Haglund law? Do they think it isn't rent control? I'm against rent control in general because it does little to keep rents down overall and it like winning the lottery for the people who get a controlled unit. Additionally it its usually paired with laws that make it really hard to get a tenant out, and I kind of think that a property owner should be able to charge what the market will bear and get a different tenant if they so choose, as long as the process is not abusive and there is no discrimination based on protected status. I don't have a huge problem with this law in theory but looking at the list there are somethings that are major habitability issues and some that aren't really aren't a big deal. Ideally you would only punish them for serious stuff that indicated neglect. I also think it would be better if you could get a city inspector in there and just let the tenant withheld rent altogether if there was something major wrong with the property. TI think that would hurt the slumlords more than just not allowing them to raise rents until it was remedied.
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Oct 7, 2017 05:29
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