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MonsieurChoc posted:Yeah, the time Hal Jordan went crazy is probably the most interesting one to use for a movie, and so won't be. It doesn't super work without a bunch of movies establishing the Green Lantern Corps. Like its the sort of thing you could pencil in as the plot for a Green Lantern 3 movie. I mean, I guess you could tell a story about just some guy who gets a super powerful weapon and gets all crazy god complex murdery with it but then you're just telling the story of a super villain, not the story of a fallen hero. BiggerBoat posted:That's exactly what I meant. Is it just a throwaway line, an acknowledgement of the previous film or a hint at something else? That line is the first I've heard mentioned in the DCU so it caught my attention. Sorry for wondering about it.
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Oct 21, 2017 20:45
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Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:Yall gorgot Guy Gardner, Space rear end in a top hat McCloud posted:
Aside from the three that matter, you have Guy Gardner: obnoxious jerk whose claim to fame is being punched out by batman, Alan Scott, the original green lantern from the 40', with a weaknesses to wood, and whose lantern is magic based, and who was also turned gay in the last wave of retcons, And Jessica and Baz, thr latest GL duo, ones a woman and the other is a muslim who wields a gun as a backup
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Oct 21, 2017 21:08
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STAC Goat posted:It doesn't super work without a bunch of movies establishing the Green Lantern Corps. Like its the sort of thing you could pencil in as the plot for a Green Lantern 3 movie. Far more complex stories are told in standalone movies all the time.
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Oct 21, 2017 21:42
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sassassin posted:Far more complex stories are told in standalone movies all the time. But like, the crux of the Parallax story is that its the fall of the great hero Hal Jordon, the best of the Green Lanterns. It also helps to establish the Green Lantern Corp as a big organization of hero cops where one could stand out amongst all. So in order to tell that story properly you have to establish "the great hero". I suppose its not impossible to do that in half a movie and leave room for his fall but that seems like a lot to fit in and at some point you're just telling a protracted super villain origin story (basically Sinestro's story, really). Plus you'd basically have to set up your secondary hero to fight Jordan/Parallax at the same time you were establishing Jordan (or make the movie even more protracted). First Act: Establish Hal and the Corps Second Act: Establish Kyle/John/whoever, Hal's fall and taking down the Corps Third Act: Defeat Hal. That just feels very, very dense and a tough sell job to us non-comic nerds who already know the basics and are invested. That format works easier in like a trilogy of movies.
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Oct 21, 2017 22:00
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I mean, Charles Foster Kane does all that, and he runs a newspaper.
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Oct 21, 2017 22:07
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To say it's impossible to tell a story in a certain amount of time is displaying a lack of imagination. There are 40 minute Justice League episodes with more plot than all of BvS. Hell, the original Batman/Superman movie is like an hour long and successfully establishes Joker, Lex, Lois, Bruce Wayne. It shouldn't take 90 minutes to establish an origin story. Back in the day, comics would have like one page and a few sentences at the beginning describing the heroes origin.
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Oct 21, 2017 22:09
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STAC Goat posted:First Act: Establish Hal and the Corps You could do that in like five minutes.
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Oct 21, 2017 22:13
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Super decompressed stories are considered more natural is their point. Compressed stories did have a habit of rushing through things.
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Oct 21, 2017 22:33
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It's not a good point. What's 'compressed'? 'Decompressed?' How many events per second are movies allowed to have? It's a strange, technocratic view of how fiction works.
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Oct 21, 2017 22:39
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I thought Hal Jordan was okish as The Spectre after he died a semi-redemptive death. The problem was bringing him back and having him just be white bread as gently caress, boring ol' mega hero Hal Jordan.
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Oct 21, 2017 22:41
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McCloud posted:The green lantern break down: Also has a chip on his shoulder regarding girlfriends chilling out
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Oct 21, 2017 23:13
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RBA Starblade posted:You could do that in like five minutes. There's a difference between stating facts and getting your audience emotionally invested and believing. "This is the Green Lantern Corps. They are intergalactic police who protect the residents of the universe from all manner of threat. They operate without fear and with the most powerful weapons in the universe. Hal Jordan is the greatest that has ever lived." Its an easy enough thing to state but does it carry any emotional weight? That's basically the introduction of Sinestro. What makes the Parallax story is that "Hal Jordan" isn't just a guy we just met and were told is awesome like Sinestro. He's the actual hero people know as "Green Lantern." So his betrayal and fall carries more weight. If you short change that you fundamentally change the nature of the story. That's not telling the story of the Hero Hal Jordan's corruption and fall to become a villain. That's just telling the story of the Villain Hal Jordan. SolidSnakesBandana posted:To say it's impossible to tell a story in a certain amount of time is displaying a lack of imagination. There are 40 minute Justice League episodes with more plot than all of BvS. Hell, the original Batman/Superman movie is like an hour long and successfully establishes Joker, Lex, Lois, Bruce Wayne. It shouldn't take 90 minutes to establish an origin story. Back in the day, comics would have like one page and a few sentences at the beginning describing the heroes origin. I don't say its impossible (in fact I specifically said its not impossible). Its just strikes me as an unnecessary challenge. And without getting into the fact that I feel different about BvS than you do I think the reality is that comic books and Justice League episodes are speaking to a different - more invested - audience than what you want out of a major motion picture. I have no doubt that its theoretically possible to tell a 90-120 or even 150 minute version of the Parallax story with no previous buildup that would resonate with a lot of pre-existing fans the way those animated movies do. I'm even sure there's some director/writer out there who could make a smash Hollywood hit with it. But it doesn't strike me as the best course for an introductory Green Lantern movie or the best way to tell the Parallax story. edit: Just to be clear, I'm not actually a big fan of Hal either. I agree with most of the criticisms about him. But like the entire point of the Parallax story is that Hal WAS "Green Lantern" for decades in a way that John Stewart and Guy Gardner never were and him not only turning into a murdering villain but destroying the Corps was huge because of all that established history. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 23:31 on Oct 21, 2017 |
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Oct 21, 2017 23:28
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STAC Goat posted:There's a difference between stating facts and getting your audience emotionally invested and believing. You defeat your own argument here. You're right that Sinestro is basically the story of Hal Jorden falling but without the thirty years of set up, but Sinestro is a good character. Evidently, you don't need those thirty years of set up.
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Oct 21, 2017 23:54
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introduce parallax hal jordan in the first trilogy of green lantern films and then have a prequel trilogy where he's a green lantern and we see his downfall
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Oct 21, 2017 23:56
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Brother Entropy posted:introduce parallax hal jordan in the first trilogy of green lantern films and then have a prequel trilogy where he's a green lantern and we see his downfall This. I mean, it worked for Star Wars. People loved the prequels.
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Oct 21, 2017 23:59
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STAC Goat posted:edit: Just to be clear, I'm not actually a big fan of Hal either. I agree with most of the criticisms about him. But like the entire point of the Parallax story is that Hal WAS "Green Lantern" for decades in a way that John Stewart and Guy Gardner never were and him not only turning into a murdering villain but destroying the Corps was huge because of all that established history. Well yeah, the point of the Parallax story was that Hal Jordan was a boring arrogant rear end in a top hat and the Green Lanterns sucked. What you're really arguing for here is for some mediocre-to-bad setup films to occur purely so that the audience can get bored with Green Lanterns and find it cathartic to see them all die.
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Oct 22, 2017 00:01
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look me in the eyes and tell me you wouldn't want to see kilowog as obi-wan
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Oct 22, 2017 00:04
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Schwarzwald posted:You defeat your own argument here. You're right that Sinestro is basically the story of Hal Jorden falling but without the thirty years of set up, but Sinestro is a good character. Evidently, you don't need those thirty years of set up. Sinestro IS a good character who shares the same basic origin story as summed up in 150 words or less. The difference between Sinestro and Parallax, and the reason someone might say "the Parallax story is a better movie than Sinestro" is because of all that time and experience with Hal Jordan and the Corps that makes their fall mean something that Sinestro's simply doesn't. Sinestro is a villain and all that "greatest GL" stuff is just his origin. Parallax is a fallen hero story. Now if you don't care about any of that "Hal the Hero" stuff or the fall of the Corps, that's cool. But then what's the point of the Parallax story?
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Oct 22, 2017 00:04
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You could introduce Hal as the most boring Green Lantern in the proposed DCU Flashpoint, follow it up with him being around in the Green Lantern Corps movie and then in Green Lantern 2, Green With Envy have him go full Parallax but get thwarted by our plucky heroes from the first Green Lantern movie.
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Oct 22, 2017 00:07
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Gyges posted:You could introduce Hal as the most boring Green Lantern in the proposed DCU Flashpoint, follow it up with him being around in the Green Lantern Corps movie and then in Green Lantern 2, Green With Envy have him go full Parallax but get thwarted by our plucky heroes from the first Green Lantern movie. Yeah, absolutely you don't necessarily need 3 Green Lantern films starring Hal Jordan to tell that story. I just used that as a generic hypothetical. But the point is establishing Hal and the Corps enough to make the weight of his fall and destruction of the Corp mean something. If you can do that in one movie, more power to you. I think it would take some actual establishment. 2-3 films, maybe. Maybe if you just establish it in Justice League and others. I don't know. There's a lot of storytelling paths to get to the same place.
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Oct 22, 2017 00:09
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Brother Entropy posted:look me in the eyes and tell me you wouldn't want to see kilowog as obi-wan Checks out.  
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Oct 22, 2017 00:11
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How about just don't ever do the lovely parallax story.
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Oct 22, 2017 00:12
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Al Borland Corp. posted:How about just don't ever do the lovely parallax story. Yeah, I feel like I fell down a hole here because I don't actually have any pressing need for that. I just think if you did it and compressed it into an introductory GL movie it would be very dumb. And then this thread would spend years arguing about it and building it up it as the greatest film ever.
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Oct 22, 2017 00:23
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Al Borland Corp. posted:How about just don't ever do the lovely parallax story. Unfortunately we're getting Hal Jordan in our DCCU Green Lanterns, so everyone is brainstorming the best lemonade we can make with those rotten lemons.
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Oct 22, 2017 00:23
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Al Borland Corp. posted:How about just don't ever do the lovely parallax story. it's the closest hal jordan ever gets to interesting and there's no reason to have faith that geoff john's golden boy won't be the main gl we're getting for the dceu i can't blame people for trying to think up a way to make the story work for the big screen
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Oct 22, 2017 00:23
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I pretty much agree with everything you're saying here, but... ...well they've already done Death of Superman and they're working on Flashpoint -- clearly the DCEU isn't worried about establishing a status quo before they bring out their big-gun stories. I'm actually surprised Parallax is apparently so popular a story. I remember it being horribly received at the time. didn't the writer receive death threats for what he did to Jordan?
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Oct 22, 2017 00:31
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I'd say Kyle Raynor would be a good intro to Green Lantern, since his origin involves him being introduced to the Corp from the perspective of someone who knows nothing about it. Have the Parallax thing already have happened to explain where the Corps has been all this time.
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Oct 22, 2017 00:38
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Yakmouth posted:I pretty much agree with everything you're saying here, but... For sure. Certainly a lot of this disagreement goes back to the same basic things I don't like about the DCEU so far and that lots of people in here love. I could definitely see how the very things I see as a problem in a theoretical Parallax story are the very things other posters see as positives.
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Oct 22, 2017 00:43
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Breaking news! Foreign royal couple spotted entering Australia illegally. https://twitter.com/7NewsGoldCoast/status/921246989383114752
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Oct 22, 2017 00:57
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Al Borland Corp. posted:How about just don't ever do the lovely parallax story. This is my vote. Maybe expend all this creative energy on making Jordan a more interesting character. Surely he cannot be SO boring that he's unsalvageable or worse than any other square-jawed white guy who's helmed an action/adventure movie before.
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Oct 22, 2017 01:08
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Yakmouth posted:This. Lolz. 4 real brah. all that grean screen.
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Oct 22, 2017 01:13
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UmOk posted:Lolz. 4 real brah. all that grean screen. Messa Superman
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Oct 22, 2017 01:16
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Just take Kyle Rayner and rename him Hal Jordan except also he's a pilot now
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Oct 22, 2017 01:25
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Al Borland Corp. posted:Just take Kyle Rayner and rename him Hal Jordan except also he's a pilot now He's in the military but he's also an artist and nobody knows he's secretly a superhero and he fights Nazis and has an unbreakable shield and
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Oct 22, 2017 01:37
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Yakmouth posted:I'm actually surprised Parallax is apparently so popular a story. I remember it being horribly received at the time. didn't the writer receive death threats for what he did to Jordan? Hal Jordan went crazy and stopped being Green Lantern in early 1994. He didn't come back until 2004/5. Given the general age of posters here Hal Jordan wasn't the Green Lantern we "grew up with" or whatever. I know that outside of Super Friends and occasional appearances in other comics I never payed any attention to Green Lantern until Kyle was the only one. As a result we're not the long term smelly comic nerds angry at the change in our beloved Green Lantern in 1994. We're the long term smelly comic nerds angry at the change in our beloved Green Lantern in 2004. Also though, Emerald Twilight was doing something new and changing things for a new direction while Rebirth was largely about undoing that just because the writer was one of those long term smelly comic nerds from 1994. He also did the same thing with Barry Allen, and I'm sure others. Also reborn Hal learned nothing and was exactly the same as he was before he killed all his friends, tried to destroy time, sacrificed himself to save the Earth, and was then the divine aspect of vengeance. That seems like some poo poo that should have changed him, but nope, Hal's jaw is just too square for that poo poo to do anything but bounce off it. Lobok posted:This is my vote. Maybe expend all this creative energy on making Jordan a more interesting character. Surely he cannot be SO boring that he's unsalvageable or worse than any other square-jawed white guy who's helmed an action/adventure movie before. Hal Jordan is the Ur-square jawed white guy helming an action/adventure movie. He's whitebread personified, and the only stories he's ever been interesting in are the time he went super evil, the time he was the divine spirit of vengeance fighting to instead offer redemption, or when he was the stuffy old conservative he is only Green Arrow was using him a foil.
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Oct 22, 2017 02:01
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Lobok posted:This is my vote. Maybe expend all this creative energy on making Jordan a more interesting character. Surely he cannot be SO boring that he's unsalvageable or worse than any other square-jawed white guy who's helmed an action/adventure movie before. They tried that already.
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Oct 22, 2017 02:14
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Fair points. To be clear, I'm not questioning people disliking Hal Jordan, I'm questioning Emerald Twilight being regarded fondly as a storyline. Although that was Kyle's intro into the universe, wasn't it? So I guess it makes sense after all.
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Oct 22, 2017 02:31
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josh04 posted:Well yeah, the point of the Parallax story was that Hal Jordan was a boring arrogant rear end in a top hat and the Green Lanterns sucked. What you're really arguing for here is for some mediocre-to-bad setup films to occur purely so that the audience can get bored with Green Lanterns and find it cathartic to see them all die. Treat the lanterns like space cops, they clock in at 8am and get assigned a planet to patrol for the day, and how lovely everything is and they make things worse, it drives Hal mad, bing bong. Act 2 is him going more crazy and being "villainous" and act 3 is whatever conclusion, the other lanterns fighting back or whatever.
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Oct 22, 2017 02:35
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Yakmouth posted:Fair points. I mean, it was a massive, shocking status quo changing story that kind of destroyed everything about Green Lantern and started from scratch. So it's memorable if nothing else. And yeah, brought in Kyle. Even if Rebirth and countless "status quo changing" stories since probably dilute that quite a bit in retrospect.
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Oct 22, 2017 02:36
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got any sevens posted:Treat the lanterns like space cops, they clock in at 8am and get assigned a planet to patrol for the day, and how lovely everything is and they make things worse, it drives Hal mad, bing bong. Act 2 is him going more crazy and being "villainous" and act 3 is whatever conclusion, the other lanterns fighting back or whatever. Or just have Sinestro + Earth Lantern and remake Training Day in outer space.
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Oct 22, 2017 02:43
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