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Condiv posted:https://twitter.com/WaywardWinifred/status/934843667768111105 There's no reason to vote Dem at any level with their attitude towards sexual assault.
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Nov 26, 2017 20:43
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C. Everett Koop posted:There's no reason to vote Dem at any level with their attitude towards sexual assault. i agree, all dems are same, why just look at dems like danica roem on the state level or like jackie speier on the national level  guess we should all vote republican, the party that truly cares about sexual assault
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Nov 26, 2017 21:29
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i write myself in for nearly every position because i care and i have the political positions that best align with myself
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Nov 26, 2017 21:30
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Raskolnikov38 posted:i write myself in for nearly every position because i care and i have the political positions that best align with myself g-governor brown??
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Nov 26, 2017 21:37
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C. Everett Koop posted:There's no reason to vote Dem at any level with their attitude towards sexual assault. Yeah, especially the women dems. All of the women running on the dem ticket at every level...
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Nov 26, 2017 21:43
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Y'all bite hard on trolls, eh?
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Nov 26, 2017 21:47
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Harik posted:Hey look you're refusing to engage with my argument again, even after I bolstered it with a quip and dog tax. I did respond to your argument, but like usual it was 13th dimensional chess, incomprehensible to the rubes itt, so I’ll unpack it. JeffersonClay posted:There's a collective action problem here, and every victim that comes forward makes it easier for the next one to come forward. Resignations are intended to thwart that dynamic. “wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_action” posted:The term "collective action problem" describes the situation in which multiple individuals would all benefit from a certain action, but has an associated cost making it implausible that any individual can or will undertake and solve it alone. The ideal solution is then to undertake this as a collective action, the cost of which is shared. We want more women to come forward because we want all the victims of sexual assault to come forward. Individual victims do not accrue most of the benefits of identifying themselves—society at large does. And each victim that identifies herself lends support and credence to the victims who have already done so. And each victim that identifies himself makes it easier for the next victim to come forward in turn. There are multiple positive externalities when these victims identify themselves. Therefore, we should be doing things that encourage more victims to come forward. There’s a difference between axiomatic and obvious. JeffersonClay fucked around with this message at 21:50 on Nov 26, 2017 |
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Nov 26, 2017 21:47
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JeffersonClay posted:I did respond to your argument, but like usual it was 13th dimensional chess, incomprehensible to the rubes itt, so I’ll unpack it. survivors shouldn’t have to come forward like we should believe what’s happening when one survivor comes forward and teach people not to do sexual violence like....what’s wrong with you it’s super traumatizing and hosed up for a lot of survivors to retell their story and so when they don’t want to come forward, that’s an okay thing the onus isn’t on them to come forward, the onus is on us to destroy the patriarchy you idiot
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Nov 26, 2017 21:51
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I’m not suggesting we force anyone to come forward. More women coming forward is helpful in dismantling the patriarchy. Additionally, more women coming forward is extremely helpful to the women who have already come forward Like are you seriously arguing it doesn’t matter if more women speak out and accuse their attackers?
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Nov 26, 2017 21:55
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Wouldn't more women be encouraged to come forward if they see that they don't need like 20+ accusers to unseat a senator?
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Nov 26, 2017 21:57
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JeffersonClay posted:I’m not suggesting we force anyone to come forward. what i’m arguing is we shouldn’t need multiple women to come forward what we need is a goddamn culture shift you know like how those idiots in trumppol were defending franken up and down even with goddamn photographic evidence those people need to be punched in the head or the men who knew about this stuff for years and were complicit: see jon stewart wrt louie ck i also prescribe one (1) punch to the head as needed
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Nov 26, 2017 21:58
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stone cold posted:what i’m arguing is we shouldn’t need multiple women to come forward what we need is a goddamn culture shift And I’m arguing that more victims coming forward and accusing their victimizers is helpful in shifting the goddamn culture. That’s the idea behind #metoo . Zanzibar Ham posted:Wouldn't more women be encouraged to come forward if they see that they don't need like 20+ accusers to unseat a senator? I mean sure, but it’s also very encouraging to have their experiences corroborated and bolstered by others who’ve been victimized in a similar manner. Also, women who are torn between the desire to speak out and the personal costs of speaking out would similarly be encouraged by the premise that other women are likely to speak out and share those costs. There’s a substantial difference between “that woman is a lying slut” and “that large group of women are all lying sluts”. Both are terrible but the latter is easier for an individual to bear. JeffersonClay fucked around with this message at 22:14 on Nov 26, 2017 |
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Nov 26, 2017 22:09
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JeffersonClay posted:I mean sure, but it’s also very encouraging to have their experiences corroborated and bolstered by others who’ve been victimized in a similar manner. Also, women who are torn between the desire to speak out and the personal costs of speaking out would similarly be encouraged by the premise that other women are likely to speak out and share those costs. So how many more women need to speak out before we believe them enough to unseat Franken? 1? 5? 10? Maybe it's like a videogame and all X of his victims need to speak out for the good ending.
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Nov 26, 2017 22:13
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JeffersonClay posted:And I’m arguing that more victims coming forward and accusing their victimizers is helpful in shifting the goddamn culture. That’s the idea behind #metoo . that’s uh jesus what’s your whole scene what happened to make you lack empathy
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Nov 26, 2017 22:13
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stone cold posted:that’s uh brain spiders
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Nov 26, 2017 22:14
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beep boop clearly women don’t speak out because they weigh their costs rationally like me between beep boop emotional pain beep boop and the net benefit to society beep boop what emotional pain of being survivor of sexual violence is? what it is?
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Nov 26, 2017 22:15
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Zanzibar Ham posted:So how many more women need to speak out before we believe them enough to unseat Franken? 1? 5? 10? Maybe it's like a videogame and all X of his victims need to speak out for the good ending. Unseating Franken isn’t the end game here. Putting Franken through a rigorous investigation before he resigns or gets kicked out has benefits beyond his removal. stone cold posted:that’s uh When I see the #metoo movement blowing up, and masses of women (and men) identifying themselves as victims and encouraging others to do the same as a way of fixing our broken culture, I listen to them.
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Nov 26, 2017 22:20
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stone cold posted:that’s uh JC is the end result of mainlining centrism No morals, just concerned with winning. No policy goals, just a gigantic concern for preserving the status quo and decorum of the system.
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Nov 26, 2017 22:20
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JeffersonClay posted:Unseating Franken isn’t the end game here. Actually, it is the end goal, and victims of sexual abuse shouldn't have to be thrown into the spotlight and dragged out for weeks/months in order to get human filth removed from office.
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Nov 26, 2017 22:23
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JeffersonClay posted:Unseating Franken isn’t the end game here. Putting Franken through a rigorous investigation before he resigns or gets kicked out has benefits beyond his removal. He confessed, though! He should resign and be tried (in a criminal court).
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Nov 26, 2017 22:24
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WampaLord posted:JC is the end result of mainlining centrism If I were just concerned with democrats winning I’d have wanted Franken to resign weeks ago. This is an impressively dumb response to “more women victims of the patriarchy identifying themselves is helpful in smashing the patriarchy”
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Nov 26, 2017 22:25
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stone cold posted:that’s uh liberalism
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Nov 26, 2017 22:29
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Horseshoe theory posted:Actually, it is the end goal, and victims of sexual abuse shouldn't have to be thrown into the spotlight and dragged out for weeks/months in order to get human filth removed from office. No, the end goal is smashing the patriarchy. Nobody’s suggesting we out victims against their will. I’m suggesting we create environments where victims are more comfortable and motivated to accuse their victimizers. Zanzibar Ham posted:He confessed, though! He should resign and be tried (in a criminal court). The only official investigation you’re going to see into Franken’s behavior is a senate investigation. Raskolnikov38 posted:liberalism I mean, Im defending the Bernie Sanders position here.
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Nov 26, 2017 22:37
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I, see I’m upping my prescription from earlier to “guillotine constantly” Go run along and fill that one immediately
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Nov 26, 2017 22:40
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stone cold posted:I, see I dunno telling other posters to kill themselves doesn’t have an excellent track record but who knows? JeffersonClay posted:When I see the #metoo movement blowing up, and masses of women (and men) identifying themselves as victims and encouraging others to do the same as a way of fixing our broken culture, I listen to them. Sentence: guillotine
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Nov 26, 2017 22:44
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JeffersonClay posted:I dunno telling other posters to kill themselves doesn’t have an excellent track record but who knows? yeah, that’s definitely what calling for the guillotine means you robot of a goon
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Nov 26, 2017 22:45
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JeffersonClay posted:No, the end goal is smashing the patriarchy. Nobody’s suggesting we out victims against their will. I’m suggesting we create environments where victims are more comfortable and motivated to accuse their victimizers. How about by forcibly removing the predators from positions of power ASAP to show that they're not invulnerable?
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Nov 26, 2017 22:46
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Horseshoe theory posted:How about by forcibly removing the predators from positions of power ASAP to show that they're not invulnerable? beep boop unless a horde of victims come forward we must only investigate
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Nov 26, 2017 22:51
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Smash patriarchy by keeping abusive patriarchs in power and not pushing for any consequences for their actions until some as-yet-undecided point in the future. Brilliant.
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Nov 26, 2017 22:53
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pretty hosed up that survivors choose to perpetuate the patriarchy by not coming forward, imho. wish they would be less selfish
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Nov 26, 2017 22:56
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JeffersonClay posted:I’m suggesting we create environments where victims are more comfortable and motivated to accuse their victimizers. Hint: telling them 'that's nice, but we need more victims to come forward first' isn't really a motivator.
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Nov 26, 2017 23:05
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Calibanibal posted:pretty hosed up that survivors choose to perpetuate the patriarchy by not coming forward, imho. wish they would be less selfish Yeah, no kidding. Can't they see that we need an undefinable number of victims to step forward before we take any concrete action on the matter? Why can't they understand that their suffering only matters in aggregate, and step forward to have every aspect of their lives scrutinized and criticized before we decide if their claims have any merit or warrant any action? Edit: Okay I have to stop the sarcasm now because I'm actually starting to feel sick (though that admittedly might be because I am in fact actually sick). Also JC really loving sucks.
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Nov 26, 2017 23:08
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JeffersonClay posted:No, the end goal is smashing the patriarchy. Yes, I totally believe you, JeffersonClay, noted defender of the status quo, are committed to smashing the patriarchy. Especially because putting X number of women through Republican led Anita Hill style hearings before allowing a sexual predator to resign is a Good Thing and definitely is not patronizing in any way!
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Nov 26, 2017 23:44
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The party will never hold itself accountable and will do whatever it takes to keep the American people from taking it to task.
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Nov 27, 2017 00:17
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MooselanderII posted:Yes, I totally believe you, JeffersonClay, noted defender of the status quo, are committed to smashing the patriarchy. Especially because putting X number of women through Republican led Anita Hill style hearings before allowing a sexual predator to resign is a Good Thing and definitely is not patronizing in any way! So we’re back to “senate investigations of sexual misconduct are misogyny”. Cool. Do you believe Bernie and Elizabeth Warren? because i’m defending their strategy here. Zanzibar Ham posted:Hint: telling them 'that's nice, but we need more victims to come forward first' isn't really a motivator. I’m suggesting we say “thanks for coming forward we’re going to launch an investigation and encourage other victims to come forward so we can force him to resign”. Like he’s pretty obviously not going to resign on his own right now. Maybe if you make enough bad faith arguments in this thread he’ll change his mind. Roland Jones posted:Smash patriarchy by keeping abusive patriarchs in power and not pushing for any consequences for their actions until some as-yet-undecided point in the future. Brilliant. The yet undefined point in the future being after the investigation. Horseshoe theory posted:How about by forcibly removing the predators from positions of power ASAP to show that they're not invulnerable? How do you imagine that they forcibly remove Franken without an investigation?
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Nov 27, 2017 00:19
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JeffersonClay posted:Maybe if you make enough bad faith arguments in this thread he’ll change his mind. Please, you don't get to tell people they're arguing in bad faith. (he loving confessed!)
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Nov 27, 2017 00:21
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franken should step down why is this hard for you maybe that’s just my dame brain talking, jc, but that seems like a pretty simple loving solution especially when there’s goddamn photographic evidence
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Nov 27, 2017 00:23
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stone cold posted:franken should step down Because that means goals and affirmative political visions to work towards in lieu of incestuous networks of favors and personal affiliation and we can’t have that now, can we?
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Nov 27, 2017 00:26
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Like that’s not hard for me, I agree that Franken should resign. I think there are benefits to having a senate investigation before that happens. Regardless, it seems pretty unlikely that he’s going to step down before an investigation anyway, so you might as well be howling at the moon here.
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Nov 27, 2017 00:27
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JeffersonClay posted:Like that’s not hard for me, I agree that Franken should resign. I think there are benefits to having a senate investigation before that happens. Regardless, it seems pretty unlikely that he’s going to step down before an investigation anyway, so you might as well be howling at the moon here. are we still pretending you can't do both? how many pages is it now?
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Nov 27, 2017 00:28
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