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Ganson posted:That is absolutely not the case. They are in fact over-represented due to how the senatorial election and electoral college systems work. If anything they'll be given even more influence as their homes thin out in favor of their children moving to the city. Their outsized influence is being exploited by the wealthy. The first step in uniting with them against the wealthy is to stop blaming them for their own exploitation.
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Dec 14, 2017 17:28
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Cerebral Bore posted:Reserving absolutely all your scorn for poor rural white people is a bit of missing the target, because they're by and large shut out of power on a systemic level. More efficient to mainly point the finger at the capitalist class and the suburban GOP-voting petty bourg, who are at the very least just as much of a bunch of racist, hateful and ignorant assholes, except that they do hold real power in society, and hence do far more harm. Okay so first of all, I'm not laying scorn on anyone. Ambivalence isn't the same thing. I can reserve my empathy for other people and still hate the upperclasses and capitalism. And loving second of all, I'm not about to sit here and feel sorry for people that are complicit in my oppression so maybe you need to sit down and get some drat perspective.
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Dec 14, 2017 17:29
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Ganson posted:That is absolutely not the case. They are in fact over-represented due to how the senatorial election and electoral college systems work. If anything they'll be given even more influence as their homes thin out in favor of their children moving to the city. Buddy, I think you need to deepen your understanding of how political power works, because you're mixing up the dynamics here something fierce.
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Dec 14, 2017 17:29
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Cerebral Bore posted:Buddy, I think you need to deepen your understanding of how political power works, because you're mixing up the dynamics here something fierce. Enlighten me then. Nevvy Z posted:Their outsized influence is being exploited by the wealthy. The first step in uniting with them against the wealthy is to stop blaming them for their own exploitation. I agree. I'm also not the person to do this as I hold a significant grudge due to growing up queer in the boonies (and I was town, not even full fledge boonie). I'm not the better man and I'll absolutely admit it, that's why I donate money to and vote for groups that have a better chance of doing this than me. Ganson fucked around with this message at 17:35 on Dec 14, 2017 |
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Dec 14, 2017 17:30
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Koalas March posted:I don't think anyone here is saying that. We're saying it's hard to muster up sympathy for white idiots who continue to act against their own interests just to stick it to minorities. I was expressly talking about the person so full of himself that he types up the phrase "the children they have that are worth anything."
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Dec 14, 2017 17:31
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Nevvy Z posted:Their outsized influence is being exploited by the wealthy. The first step in uniting with them against the wealthy is to stop blaming them for their own exploitation. Koalas March posted:I don't think anyone here is saying that. We're saying it's hard to muster up sympathy for white idiots who continue to act against their own interests just to stick it to minorities. I think it's definitely other white folk's job to do what I said above, not PoCs. And then to get them to stop being so drat racist, hopefully.
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Dec 14, 2017 17:32
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Ganson posted:I'm not mocking them for not moving away. I'm mocking them because in my experience large majorities discounted every possible action they could take to improve their situation and then bitch when their situation doesn't improve. that's some high-tier grudge holding right there. a couple of people told me to give up or tried to get in my way when i was trying to get a degree, but i don't blame rural america for those people being asses quote:And here I am years later still doing it with a bright future, great job, great house, no debt, and a couple g/fs who like doing wildly inappropriate things with me and each other on a regular basis. A lot of my opinions on the subject revolve around, "None of you supported me when I was nothing and now that I'm something you can sod right off." wow, you're a real piece of work
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Dec 14, 2017 17:37
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Oh Snapple! posted:I was expressly talking about the person so full of himself that he types up the phrase "the children they have that are worth anything." Ah, that's fair. I missed that somehow. as you were
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Dec 14, 2017 17:39
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Condiv posted:that's some high-tier grudge holding right there. a couple of people told me to give up or tried to get in my way when i was trying to get a degree, but i don't blame rural america for those people being asses Yes and Yes 
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Dec 14, 2017 17:40
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Koalas March posted:Okay so first of all, I'm not laying scorn on anyone. Ambivalence isn't the same thing. I can reserve my empathy for other people and still hate the upperclasses and capitalism. Wasn't directing that at you, because from what I've seen you get how this stuff works. Besides that, I's like to point out that I literally said that you didn't have to do that bolded part in the very post you quoted. Ganson posted:Enlighten me then. The long and short of it is that actually rural rural poor people generally have very low voter participation and in any case there are so few of them that they wouldn't matter very much even if they did vote, and finally they're actually not as solid a GOP block as you might think. The actual red state GOP base is small-town and suburban people.
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Dec 14, 2017 17:41
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Cerebral Bore posted:Wasn't directing that at you, because from what I've seen you get how this stuff works. I may be not communicating properly, but when I read you saying to keep perspective, while I now realize that you weren't pointing that at minorities, it's still difficult to read because we are constantly told to feel sorry for the people who are oppressing us, and also constantly inundated with excuses for their behavior as a roundabout way to subdue us into forgiving or ignoring their collusion.
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Dec 14, 2017 17:46
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Cerebral Bore posted:The long and short of it is that actually rural rural poor people generally have very low voter participation and in any case there are so few of them that they wouldn't matter very much even if they did vote, and finally they're actually not as solid a GOP block as you might think. The actual red state GOP base is small-town and suburban people. Most of my experience in central PA was suburban/townies so perhaps I've been misnaming people throughout the course of this thread (I don't know what to call them besides rural voters). However the sad truth in 2017 is, if you don't vote (consistently) you essentially do not matter to the political process. If you want to make an argument towards pushing for better voter participation and less disenfranchisement in rural areas I'll absolutely vote for you and throw money your way, though I won't take direct action myself as I'm a vindictive prick (but hey, I'll at least admit it as opposed to be nice to your face and then stabbing you in the back and stealing your health insurance). As to my statement about 'kids who are worth it' that rustled a lot of jimmies, if you're going to make an argument to me that I should care in the slightest about what happens to the characters from (at the time) decently well off families who were getting trashed off cough syrup in high school (I'm old enough this was before meth/heroin were the thing) excuse me while I have a hearty laugh at your expense. Ganson fucked around with this message at 17:52 on Dec 14, 2017 |
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Dec 14, 2017 17:47
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Koalas March posted:I may be not communicating properly, but when I read you saying to keep perspective, while I now realize that you weren't pointing that at minorities, it's still difficult to read because we are constantly told to feel sorry for the people who are oppressing us, and also constantly inundated with excuses for their behavior as a roundabout way to subdue us into forgiving or ignoring their collusion. Right, I see what you're getting at. I certainly didn't mean to imply any of what you're describing, and I suppose I should have worded my statement more specifically to make it clear.
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Dec 14, 2017 17:56
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Koalas March posted:I may be not communicating properly, but when I read you saying to keep perspective, while I now realize that you weren't pointing that at minorities, it's still difficult to read because we are constantly told to feel sorry for the people who are oppressing us, and also constantly inundated with excuses for their behavior as a roundabout way to subdue us into forgiving or ignoring their collusion. The sole piece of remorse I have about my position is that, if others actually took it up, it would significantly harm PoC, hispanics, other trapped LGBT people, etc who have 10 times greater reasons to be bitter and spiteful than me. At least I had a family that was well off enough to send me to school for an in demand field with only moderate amounts of student loan debt and taught me enough about money to make some astute choices in my 20s that paid off. This is why I'm just another internet idiot posting on a comedy website forum than someone involved with politics (that and the whole, I'm having threesomes with my trans women partners on a regular basis thing, though at least they aren't kids).
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Dec 14, 2017 17:57
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Condiv posted:wow, you're a real piece of work 
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Dec 14, 2017 18:01
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Ganson posted:I'm not going to pretend to have empathy when I don't..  yronic heroism posted:Or are you just mad Obama didn’t literally drone strike Wall Street.
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Dec 14, 2017 18:20
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Inescapable Duck posted:Remember when that meant that a man with a wife and three kids would have to stay in a well compensated, unionised 9-5 weekday job until retirement? *for a relatively small percentage of predominantly white people Union penetration at its height was only like 30% in the US iirc. Ganson posted:Most of my experience in central PA was suburban/townies so perhaps I've been misnaming people throughout the course of this thread (I don't know what to call them besides rural voters). The term you’re looking for is “rural cosplayers.”
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Dec 14, 2017 18:24
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How in the world did a discussion about whether Obama was bad for presiding over the destruction over substantial low and middle class wealth get turned into whether people should empathize with white rural voters voting for Republicans? Like if you want to hate on Republican voters, maybe that's not great, but I'm certainly not going to stop you, but don't judo a discussion on Obama's policies into hating on Republican voters, that's just weirdly obsessive. edit: Unless the subtext is "Obama is just a Republican", maybe I missed that.
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Dec 14, 2017 18:39
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Obama was a good president because only the bad half of this country hasn't recovered from the recession.
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Dec 14, 2017 18:49
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Ytlaya posted:For some reason I've noticed this tendency to conflate not actively praising Democratic politicians with an unwillingness to vote for them to prevent Republican candidates from winning. It is entirely possible to simultaneously vote Democratic as a pragmatic decision while also believing they're generally bad people perpetuating a bad status quo. If someone specifically argues about their choice to not vote (in a contested election), it's reasonable to argue on those grounds, but it usually seems like people resort to this angle because they don't really have any other plausible argument to use.
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Dec 14, 2017 18:57
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Ganson posted:I'm not mocking them for not moving away. I'm mocking them because in my experience large majorities discounted every possible action they could take to improve their situation and then bitch when their situation doesn't improve. The reason why your opinion is stupid is that, on a large population-wide scale, there is nothing that people can do to improve their situations. While you might be able to envision a path towards a better future for a specific individual, it is literally impossible for a significant percent of the people currently working (for example) minimum wage jobs at a rural Wal-Mart to move to a better career. This is because those jobs need to be filled regardless, and the percent of jobs that pay well and are required for society to function are more or less limited as a fraction of total jobs. This is why opinions that blame groups of people for having a bad lot in life are essentially regressive, and liberals who have such views share far more in common with Republicans than they do anyone who actually comprehends the nature of injustice and inequality in our society. At the end of the day, the people who actually deserve blame are those who actually have wealth and power. Liberals who focus on the uneducated poor are just helping those with the real power (not to mention the fact that such views are hilariously wrong by virtue of the fact that the worst Republicans tend to be middle class, college educated suburbanites). The focus on the idea of "an uneducated hick" is extremely counterproductive, because the real enemies we should be focusing on are generally very well educated. edit: You sort of remind me of this other poster who posted about the meritocracy being a worthwhile concept. I remember he also grew up in a rural area and now makes 6 figures and has a giant hate boner for rural people. I feel like their username started with an "r" or something. They were almost like some sort of exaggerated caricature of all the worst liberal stereotypes. edit2: I very rarely make assumptions about reregs (or account name changes or whatever) but after reading some other posts in this thread the similarity is pretty uncanny. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 19:11 on Dec 14, 2017 |
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Dec 14, 2017 19:05
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Ytlaya posted:The reason why your opinion is stupid is that, on a large population-wide scale, there is nothing that people can do to improve their situations. A lot of them could start by not huffing paint thinner. It's especially pathetic when the person I'm thinking of had parents who owned several successful businesses. Yet this person gets to vote for people who try their damndest to take away my girlfriends healthcare or both of ours civil rights. edit: No, I'm not a rereg. Though I've run into others in my situation with very similar sentiments. Ganson fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Dec 14, 2017 |
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Dec 14, 2017 19:16
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Ganson posted:A lot of them could start by not huffing paint thinner. It's especially pathetic when the person I'm thinking of had parents who owned several successful businesses. Yet this person gets to vote for people who try their damndest to take away my girlfriends healthcare or both of ours civil rights. half the black wealth in the country being destroyed was good, actually, because some racists suffered too. cool beans
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Dec 14, 2017 19:31
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Ze Pollack posted:half the black wealth in the country being destroyed was good, actually, because some racists suffered too. Yep I definitely said that. It's right there. You win. *masturbatory motion*
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Dec 14, 2017 19:34
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did i stumble into an e/n thread
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Dec 14, 2017 19:45
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Calibanibal posted:did i stumble into an e/n thread USPOL THUNDERDOME: 
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Dec 14, 2017 19:45
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Ganson posted:Yep I definitely said that. It's right there. You win. That's Ze's post history summed up completely.
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Dec 14, 2017 19:46
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joepinetree posted:Pretty sure the attorney general answers to the president. I mean, unless your argument is that Trump also has nothing to do with what Sessions is doing now. I have news for you, the Trump admin is corrupt as gently caress hth
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Dec 14, 2017 19:48
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Rent-A-Cop posted:Yes. Too bad
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Dec 14, 2017 19:49
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Swap "urban" for "rural" and you're just repeating the argument for why no one in Flint deserves clean water.yronic heroism posted:Too bad Rent-A-Cop fucked around with this message at 19:54 on Dec 14, 2017 |
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Dec 14, 2017 19:52
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So are the whites dead yet? I want to know how culpable this thread is for my memoirs.
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Dec 14, 2017 19:54
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HootTheOwl posted:So are the whites dead yet? I want to know how culpable this thread is for my memoirs. what is even the point of this shitpost
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Dec 14, 2017 19:57
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Ganson posted:I'm not going to pretend to have empathy when I don't. I have empathy for poor black and hispanic citizens who are stuck in awful conditions in rural areas though a combination of generational poverty and actively racist policies by white politicians. As far as rural whitey is concerned outside of lgbt people they can get hosed for all I care. They'll never change and aren't worth a Wendy's dollar menu items worth of What about all the poor rural white people that vote Democrat? Alabama was a victory gained through insane turnout from the black vote, but even then almost half of the votes cast for Jones were white people. White people vote for Republicans statistically overall, but behind the statistics there's plenty of white people voting against them. Everywhere the white people vote breaks for Republicans there's a sizeable (though smaller) cohort of white people who vote Democrat, even white rural voters. From the shaky information we have the very worst demographic for voting for Trump was non-college whites who did so at 67%. That's still 33%, fully a third, who didn't vote for Trump (plus however many didn't go to the polls). It's a loving terrible showing for the demographic overall, but when it comes to empathy we're talking actual people here not just some data points. Do you have no empathy for those 33% because they share the same skin color and class as people who voted Republican?
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Dec 14, 2017 19:58
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on my part. Their towns will continue to die their slow deaths while the children they have that are worth anything will flee to the cities at the first opportunity.
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Koalas March posted:what is even the point of this shitpost I might be blurring threads between this and uspol.
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Dec 14, 2017 19:59
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HootTheOwl posted:I might be blurring threads between this and uspol. so what lurk more or make a post that's actually funny/informative and not about your white fragility
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Dec 14, 2017 20:00
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Ganson posted:Yep I definitely said that. It's right there. You win.
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Dec 14, 2017 20:01
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Koalas March posted:so what  But I'm all out of reaction gifs.
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Dec 14, 2017 20:09
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twodot posted:Unironically, Ze Pollack's post, to me, looks like a correct and charitable interpretation of what you've said. Why bother to bring up how you have no sympathy for white rural voters in the context of Obama policies other than to excuse their destruction? Scroll back a couple pages. I went into how my disdain for rural voters does not extend to PoC, trapped LGBT people, etc. It's almost exclusively for white rural voters, mostly the townies/suburbanites I had the displeasure of growing up with. I fully admit to growing up in white hegemony and am guilty of the sin of forgetting about others, even though I have sympathy for their cause and vote/donate money accordingly. Futuresight posted:What about all the poor rural white people that vote Democrat? Alabama was a victory gained through insane turnout from the black vote, but even then almost half of the votes cast for Jones were white people. White people vote for Republicans statistically overall, but behind the statistics there's plenty of white people voting against them. Everywhere the white people vote breaks for Republicans there's a sizeable (though smaller) cohort of white people who vote Democrat, even white rural voters. From the shaky information we have the very worst demographic for voting for Trump was non-college whites who did so at 67%. That's still 33%, fully a third, who didn't vote for Trump (plus however many didn't go to the polls). It's a loving terrible showing for the demographic overall, but when it comes to empathy we're talking actual people here not just some data points. Do you have no empathy for those 33% because they share the same skin color and class as people who voted Republican? I would put them under the same category as above. My family falls into this category. If I hadn't bailed at the first opportunity this would be me.
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Dec 14, 2017 20:10
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HootTheOwl posted:
Lmao why are gifs some kind of white man kryptonite Every time I call out fragility/racism it's straight to the gifs like it's some sort of burn. I should make a bingo card Get the gently caress over it 😂😂😂
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Dec 14, 2017 20:13
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Ganson posted:Scroll back a couple pages. I went into how my disdain for rural voters does not extend to PoC, trapped LGBT people, etc. It's almost exclusively for white rural voters, mostly the townies/suburbanites I had the displeasure of growing up with. I fully admit to growing up in white hegemony and am guilty of the sin of forgetting about others, even though I have sympathy for their cause and vote/donate money accordingly. then why gloat about those people getting left behind?
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Dec 14, 2017 20:14
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