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Hekk
Oct 12, 2012

'smeper fi

LingcodKilla posted:

Has this jumped from rumor to reality?

Yes. Keep same rank at same duty station until separation if you can't pass pfa. No early out for failing.

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Crab Dad
Dec 28, 2002

behold i have tempered and refined thee, but not as silver; as CRAB


Holy poo poo.

So many tears.

Wonder if uniforms are going to be offered in bigger sizes now.

Boon
Jun 21, 2005

by R. Guyovich

Nostalgia4Ass posted:

Yes. Keep same rank at same duty station until separation if you can't pass pfa. No early out for failing.

Effective immediately or what? Because I got two dudes who gonna get processed after this cycle.

E: Can you point to the navadmin? Won't believe this till I see it.

Hekk
Oct 12, 2012

'smeper fi

Boon posted:

Effective immediately or what? Because I got two dudes who gonna get processed after this cycle.

E: Can you point to the navadmin? Won't believe this till I see it.

I am on the khaki distro for the ship I am on. Otherwise I wouldn't know anything about Navy PFA regulations. Bunch of folks from 7th Fleet and comnavsurfpac have been sending emails for the last week about it. Everyone has been up in arms because they think that this will suddenly let sailors fail all of their PFAs until they want to get promoted and then they'll suddenly be competitive when they pass one. I have the message at work and I can forward it but I won't be back there for another 16 hours or so.

Mr. Nice!
Oct 13, 2005

c-spam cannot afford



The navy doesn't throw more bodies at the problem. A big part of the problem is they're still reeling from trying to reduce the number of needed bodies from the early 00s. Optimal manning did decades of damage to the fleet.

poopkitty
Oct 16, 2013

WE ARE ALL ONE

shovelbum posted:

Just talked to a guy I know who is on a destroyer about the work hours, he told he about getting like three one hour naps per night and nothing else for months, with a crew of hundreds. As a merchant mariner it is just all super alien to me, you can run a thousand foot ultradeepwater drillship 24/7 such that everyone gets 12 hours of rest a day with half the crew I mean I know a destroyer is more complicated than a box full of boxes like I'm used to these days but gently caress man those schedules can't be good for not getting run over

:chiefsay: But is everyone awake for an hour of cleaning stations? How do your passageways stay spotless without an army of zombie OS's waving radiator brushes at your pipes? :chiefsay:

PneumonicBook
Sep 26, 2007

Do you like our owl?



Ultra Carp

Boon posted:

Effective immediately or what? Because I got two dudes who gonna get processed after this cycle.

E: Can you point to the navadmin? Won't believe this till I see it.

There's nothing on NPC yet and with the holidays coming up you'd think they'd want it out if it affects the cycle that ends in a week.

Meydey
Dec 31, 2005

poopkitty posted:

:chiefsay: But is everyone awake for an hour of cleaning stations? How do your passageways stay spotless without an army of zombie OS's waving radiator brushes at your pipes? :chiefsay:

There was nothing worse than spending a mid-8 shift staring at the scopes in cic, then having your oic get a hardon for shiny floors and demanding everyone not on station to start buffing. Well that and the bullshit duty chief throwing an orange flag on your bunk at 8 am on a Saturday in port and saying you spontaneously combusted or some poo poo. I just want to sleep dammit.

lightpole
Jun 4, 2004
I think that MBAs are useful, in case you are looking for an answer to the question of "Is lightpole a total fucking idiot".

Mr. Nice! posted:

The navy doesn't throw more bodies at the problem. A big part of the problem is they're still reeling from trying to reduce the number of needed bodies from the early 00s. Optimal manning did decades of damage to the fleet.

It's hard to compare to a merchant ship due to the warfighting need but there are only about 20 people on one. The merchant marine also has manning issues but it's one of the most hazardous jobs in the world with one of the highest suicide rates. Still, a just graduated 3rd engineer can be making 90k+ in 6 months fresh out of school so pay is above the national average at least.

As the complexity increases, the need for training and experience does as well. There's no real easy fix outside of a complete rework. To attract people the incentives would have to be better and I'm not sure how possible that is.

They don't do that bullshit because they have to pay us more if they do and international regs say we need at least 6 hours off uninterrupted and 10 off in a 24 hour period. This leads to a degree of cleanliness that the navy wouldn't be happy with because people are lazy and don't care if they track oil everywhere.

lightpole fucked around with this message at 16:42 on Dec 20, 2017

shovelbum
Oct 21, 2010

Fun Shoe
One time me and the electrician were working in the elevator shaft and not thinking, tracked elevator grease though the elevator. The captain saw it later and lost his mind bc the pilot might see it so he called out the chief steward in the middle of the night, I felt bad I could've just wiped it up

Edit yeah complexity minus training means a huge reliance on smart people giving up on other careers and just blundering into the industry

shovelbum fucked around with this message at 16:50 on Dec 20, 2017

Laranzu
Jan 18, 2002
No dtg yet so still in draft


code:


TAB A - NAVADMIN PFA Separations-1
R XXXXXXZ DEC 17

FM CNO WASHINGTON DC//N1//

TO NAVADMIN

INFO CNO WASHINGTON DC//N1//

BT

UNCLAS

NAVADMIN XXX/17

MSGID/GENADMIN CNO WASHINGTON DC/N1/DEC//

SUBJ/PHYSICAL READINESS PROGRAM POLICY CHANGE//

REF/A/DOC/OPNAV/11JUL11//

REF/B/DOC/NAVPERS/22AUG02//

REF/C/DOC/BUPERS/01MAY15//

REF/D/DOC/BUPERS/6MAY14//

REF/E/DOC/SECNAV/26AUG15//

NARR/REF A IS OPNAVINST 6110.1J, PHYSICAL READINESS PROGRAM.  REF B IS NAVPERS 15560D, NAVAL MILITARY PERSONNEL MANUAL.  REF C IS BUPERSINST 1610.10D, NAVY PERFORMANCE EVALUATION SYSTEMS.  REF D IS BUPERSINST 1430.16F CH-1, ADVANCEMENT MANUAL FOR ENLISTED PERSONNEL IN THE U.S. NAVY AND U.S. NAVY RESERVE.  REF E IS SECNAVINST 1920.6C CH-5, ADMINISTRATIVE SEPARATION OF OFFICERS.//

RMKS/1.  This NAVADMIN announces revised Physical Readiness Program separation policies.  Adjustments to Physical Readiness Program policies reflect a continued emphasis to invest in and retain our most important resource, our Sailors.  Retention of every capable Sailor is critical to the operational readiness of the Navy.  The goal of the Navy’s physical readiness program is to maintain a minimum prescribed level of fitness necessary for world-wide deployment and to maintain a Sailor’s long-term health and wellness.  Revisions to references (a), (b), and (c) are forthcoming and will be published at a later date.

2.  Effective immediately:

    a.  All commands will discontinue processing members for separation as a result of Physical Fitness Assessment (PFA) failures.  Separation orders resulting from PFA failures prior to Soft End of Active Obligated Service (SEAOS) with approved dates after 31 March 2018 are cancelled.  Officers with approved separation orders for PFA failure with a directed separation date prior to 1 March 2018 can request their separation orders be cancelled in order to remain in the Navy by contacting PERS-834, subject to Secretary of Navy (SECNAV) approval.

    b.  MILPERSMAN 1910-170, Separation by Reason of PFA Failure, is cancelled.

3.  The following applies to all enlisted members:

    a.  Enlisted members who:

        (1) Fail one PFA will:

            (a) Be issued a NAVPERS 1070/613 via Navy Standard Integrated Personnel System (NSIPS) to inform them of the PFA failure.

            (b) Be enrolled in the Fitness Enhancement Program (FEP) until passing the next official PFA.

            (c) Not be frocked or advanced.  Members may regain eligibility for promotion by passing a command-directed monthly FEP mock PFA.  However, they must still remain enrolled in FEP until passing the next official PFA.

        (2) Fail two or more consecutive PFAs will continue service until SEAOS.  Additionally these members:

            (a) Will be ineligible for advancement under reference (a).

            (b) Will be ineligible to reenlist or extend under reference (b).

            (c) Will receive an adverse report that states Significant Problems on evaluation under reference (c).

            (d) Will be detailed as required.  Changes to any program that has specific PFA requirements will be announced via revision to its governing instruction.

            (e) May regain eligibility for advancement and reenlistment by passing one subsequent official PFA.  In line with references (c) and (d), members must obtain the recommendation of their CO for advancement and retention on their most recent evaluation.  This may require a special evaluation to restore retention or advancement recommendations after a member passes an official PFA.

    b.  For those members who currently have approved separation or Fleet Reserve dates as a result of the previous PFA separation policy, the following information and guidelines are provided:

        (1) Members who currently have approved separation dates not aligned to their SEAOS on or before 31 March 2018 must contact their chain of command and decide no later than 1 February 2018 whether to cancel their separation/reserve orders and remain on active duty or execute their orders as originally planned.  Every effort will be made to retain Sailors who desire to stay Navy.

        (2) Enlisted members with SEAOS between 1 January 2018 and 30 June 2018 who are ineligible for retention or cannot submit a Career Waypoints (C-WAY) application due to adverse evaluations as a result of past PFA failure history and desire to stay Navy are authorized an extension to regain eligibility with command endorsement as follows:

            (a) Requested extension length should be of sufficient duration to allow for processing of a future special evaluation and application in C-WAY (if applicable), but must not exceed 30 September 2018.

            (b) Because this is an exception to policy, this action will not require a C-WAY quota (if applicable).

            (c) Once the member successfully passes the official Cycle 1, 2018 PFA, and has retention eligibility restored from the CO, the member can submit their reenlistment/extension request directly to their CO, or Bureau of Naval Personnel (BUPERS) Enlisted Community Manager (BUPERS-32) for enlisted members who must use C-WAY.  For Nuclear-trained members, all requests must be submitted via their CO to Deputy Chief of Naval Operations Nuclear Program Manager (OPNAV (N133)).  In all cases, PRIMS results must show the Cycle 1, 2018 results.

    c.  Members with approved Fleet Reserve dates on or after 31 July 2018 who pass Cycle 1, 2018 and desire to remain on active duty must first submit a cancellation request no later than 1 May 2018 to Commander, Navy Personnel Command (COMNAVPERSCOM) Enlisted Retirements Office (PERS-836) at the following e-mail address:  enlisted_active_duty_retirements(at)navy.mil.  Once received, approval of the Fleet Reserve cancellation request serves as authority to cancel previously issued retirement orders, which are issued by the local supporting personnel office.  PERS-836 will forward all approved cancellation requests to COMNAVPERSCOM, Enlisted Assignment Division (PERS-40), and to OPNAV (N133) for all nuclear-trained members.

    d.  Enlisted personnel affected by this change to PFA separation policy, who desire to stay Navy, must maintain advancement eligibility as outlined in reference (d) to participate in the Navy-Wide Advancement Exam (NWAE).  This may require a special evaluation to restore advancement recommendation once the member passes an official PFA.

    e.  Members who desire to stay Navy:

        (1) Who are not in receipt of separation/retirement orders but are within seven months of their Projected Rotation Date (PRD) must contact their detailer who can make a Career Management System Interactive (CMS-ID) application for them in the next CMS-ID cycle.

        (2) Who are in their normal 7-12 month negotiation window should submit an application via CMS-ID.  Those affected members beyond 12 months from their PRD will follow the normal detailing processes.

4.  The following applies to all officers:

    a.  Officers who:

        (1) Fail one PFA will:

            (a) Not eligible for promotion.  Commands are required to delay promotion and inform PERS-834.  Members will regain eligibility for promotion by passing the next command-directed monthly FEP mock PFA.

            (b) Be issued a Letter of Notification to inform them of the PFA failure.

            (c) Be enrolled in the FEP until passing the next official PFA.  

        (2) Fail two or more consecutive PFAs will be submitted to PERS-834 for administrative separation processing under reference (e).

            (a) If SECNAV determines the officer is to be separated (or retired), this action will occur at the PRD of the officer or upon the determination of SECNAV, whichever is later.

            (b) If an officer passes an official PFA prior to the decision of SECNAV on retention or separation, processing will cease and the member will be retained upon notification to PERS-834.

            (c) Additionally, officers who fail two or more consecutive PFAs will receive an adverse report that states Significant Problems on their fitness report under reference (c).

5.  Additional information that applies to all members:

    a.  Effective 1 January 2018 all PFA failures will reset to zero.

    b.  All members must have a Body Composition Assessment (BCA) completed within five work days of reporting to a new command.  This BCA spot-check will not count as the official BCA for newly reported members during the command PFA cycle, regardless of the status of the official command PFA cycle.  Members exceeding Age Adjusted Body Fat Standards (AAS) during spot-checks must be enrolled into Command FEP.

    c.  FEP enrollment and disenrollment determination:  Upon either a BCA spot-check failure or PFA failure, members must participate in FEP until they pass an official PFA and are within AAS.

6.  The Nuclear Propulsion Program Manager, OPNAV (N133), will remain the single point of contact on all PFA failure policy matters relating to Naval Nuclear Propulsion Program (NNPP) personnel.  

    a.  Nuclear-trained members may be granted an exception to the criteria of paragraphs 3 and 4 with approval of OPNAV (N133).

    b.  All recommendations for administrative separation processing for nuclear-trained officers will be submitted to OPNAV (N133) for review and approval.

7.  Points of contact.  Physical Readiness Program, Mr. Bill Moore at (901)874-2210 or PRIMS(at)navy.mil.  For all other personnel related policies:  NAVPERSCOM at 1-866-827-5672 (U-ASK-NPC).

8.  Released by Vice Admiral Robert P. Burke, N1.//  

Crab Dad
Dec 28, 2002

behold i have tempered and refined thee, but not as silver; as CRAB


Interesting.

PneumonicBook
Sep 26, 2007

Do you like our owl?



Ultra Carp
Fail forever until you want to reenlist then pass a prt. The navy mist be in oh my loving god oh poo poo mode as far as manning goes

Mr. Nice!
Oct 13, 2005

c-spam cannot afford



The navy is giving over $100k and a free graduate degree to go along with a 6 figure salary and cannot get SWOs to stick around past their first obligation.

The fleet has been severely undermanned for over 15 years now and the consequences of it are up front and center.

Crab Dad
Dec 28, 2002

behold i have tempered and refined thee, but not as silver; as CRAB


PneumonicBook posted:

Fail forever until you want to reenlist then pass a prt. The navy mist be in oh my loving god oh poo poo mode as far as manning goes

Or advance. So the trick is make chief, sign a long contract then fuuuuuck it.

PneumonicBook
Sep 26, 2007

Do you like our owl?



Ultra Carp

LingcodKilla posted:

Or advance. So the trick is make chief, sign a long contract then fuuuuuck it.

You don't need to worry about hyt assuming you get your good years as a first, but yea, you're not wrong.

Edit: just looked at the newest hyt instruction and e6 is 22 so you can even gently caress up two years as a reservist.

shovelbum
Oct 21, 2010

Fun Shoe

Mr. Nice! posted:

The navy is giving over $100k and a free graduate degree to go along with a 6 figure salary and cannot get SWOs to stick around past their first obligation.

The fleet has been severely undermanned for over 15 years now and the consequences of it are up front and center.

Holy poo poo as a civilian this makes my blood boil, you can just be a shitbag and coast in the military if you have no respect or dignity right, I should've done that.

Crab Dad
Dec 28, 2002

behold i have tempered and refined thee, but not as silver; as CRAB


We have an IS1 in our unit who just failed his third. He actually wants to get out because he makes retarded money in the private sector but this is gonna gently caress him silly.
Oh well!

Null Integer
Mar 1, 2006

A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

LingcodKilla posted:

Has this jumped from rumor to reality?

Yes, talking points are being sent out to command leadership. AKA, It will suck to be fat with bad evals and FEP but we can't afford to train your replacement.

edit: page 75/76

Mr. Nice!
Oct 13, 2005

c-spam cannot afford



shovelbum posted:

Holy poo poo as a civilian this makes my blood boil, you can just be a shitbag and coast in the military if you have no respect or dignity right, I should've done that.

I mean, being a department head isn't necessarily a walk in the park, but there are hundreds of thousands in perks for an extra 3-4 years of sea duty.

lightpole
Jun 4, 2004
I think that MBAs are useful, in case you are looking for an answer to the question of "Is lightpole a total fucking idiot".

shovelbum posted:

Holy poo poo as a civilian this makes my blood boil, you can just be a shitbag and coast in the military if you have no respect or dignity right, I should've done that.

You get your own stateroom, shower and shitter and someone to clean it and change your sheets right now. I think they still have to be responsible over there for awhile until you get high enough to where you can sell out to foreign contractors for cigars, whiskey and paid pussy.

The current SWO path is hosed for women since if they want to have a baby and they don't get it timed just right they will gently caress up their promotion track.

They also can't specialize or stay in a watch officer position for an extended period while we can spend our career sailing 3rd if we want.

That's all in addition to similar problems as the merchant marine, extended time away from home, family etc.

shovelbum
Oct 21, 2010

Fun Shoe
Lol with the way the union is now, first is a lower seniority job than third

tacopie
Apr 29, 2009
If you're tired on an air capable small boy just sign up for the flight deck crew. You will be able to take an hour nap every three hours when the bird comes in for fuel. And get flight deck pay. For sleeping during flight quarters.

Dingleberry
Aug 21, 2011

shovelbum posted:

Just talked to a guy I know who is on a destroyer about the work hours, he told he about getting like three one hour naps per night and nothing else for months, with a crew of hundreds. As a merchant mariner it is just all super alien to me, you can run a thousand foot ultradeepwater drillship 24/7 such that everyone gets 12 hours of rest a day with half the crew I mean I know a destroyer is more complicated than a box full of boxes like I'm used to these days but gently caress man those schedules can't be good for not getting run over

That would require other people to work more than a 6 or 8 hour day and no one on those good schedules is having that...

Boon
Jun 21, 2005

by R. Guyovich
Our bridge watches routinely were five and dimes because "it wasnt fair to other watch-stations" if we went to four-section rotations.

Dr. Arbitrary
Mar 15, 2006

Bleak Gremlin
So if 75 ships get added to the fleet, are they gonna just go dime and five?

Laranzu
Jan 18, 2002

Dr. Arbitrary posted:

So if 75 ships get added to the fleet, are they gonna just go dime and five?

By the time they manage to add 75 ships, the AIs will have already taken over.

lightpole
Jun 4, 2004
I think that MBAs are useful, in case you are looking for an answer to the question of "Is lightpole a total fucking idiot".

Dr. Arbitrary posted:

So if 75 ships get added to the fleet, are they gonna just go dime and five?


Seriously though we don't have the capacity or money to build much more than like 2 a year. Even with the money the capacity isn't there, the experienced labor takes years to train up. One of the reasons the Jones Act is such a big deal.

Cerekk
Sep 24, 2004

Oh my god, JC!
We just need to build a bunch of small cheap ships really fast. They can be low quality since they'll be cheap and expendable and easily replaceable. Maybe they can specialize in littoral combat since that's a weakness of our blue navy fleet. As long as the procurement process works the way it's supposed to and people don't start tacking on tons of expensive features it should work great.

Serjeant Buzfuz
Dec 5, 2009

Cerekk posted:

We just need to build a bunch of small cheap ships really fast. They can be low quality since they'll be cheap and expendable and easily replaceable. Maybe they can specialize in littoral combat since that's a weakness of our blue navy fleet. As long as the procurement process works the way it's supposed to and people don't start tacking on tons of expensive features it should work great.

Fortunately, the DoD always gets procurement right and congress never fucks with it so this will be an easy win.

Laranzu
Jan 18, 2002

Lou Takki posted:

Fortunately, the DoD always gets procurement right and congress never fucks with it so this will be an easy win.

Contract not specific enough. Ship yards delivered 75 Boston whalers with a baseball bat (Wooden, dry rotted) attached to the front. 90 million per.

lightpole
Jun 4, 2004
I think that MBAs are useful, in case you are looking for an answer to the question of "Is lightpole a total fucking idiot".

Cerekk posted:

We just need to build a bunch of small cheap ships really fast. They can be low quality since they'll be cheap and expendable and easily replaceable. Maybe they can specialize in littoral combat since that's a weakness of our blue navy fleet. As long as the procurement process works the way it's supposed to and people don't start tacking on tons of expensive features it should work great.

Hah! One of my classmates is a port engineer for these in SD. After one bitch session I decided I wanted to remain ignorant. I didn't realize that they put civmars on them to bring them out of the yard over to the West Coast for their shakedown cruise.

M_Gargantua
Oct 16, 2006

STOMP'N ON INTO THE POWERLINES

Exciting Lemon

Laranzu posted:

Contract not specific enough. Ship yards delivered 75 Boston whalers with a baseball bat (Wooden, dry rotted) attached to the front. 90 million per.

best deal the navys gotten in a long while, boston whalers are pretty nice boats for lake and river work (fishing)

PneumonicBook
Sep 26, 2007

Do you like our owl?



Ultra Carp

lightpole posted:

Hah! One of my classmates is a port engineer for these in SD. After one bitch session I decided I wanted to remain ignorant. I didn't realize that they put civmars on them to bring them out of the yard over to the West Coast for their shakedown cruise.

They don't for freedom. That's an Indy specific thing I guess.

Nick Soapdish
Apr 27, 2008


New PRT changes are out http://www.public.navy.mil/bupers-npc/reference/messages/Documents/NAVADMINS/NAV2017/NAV17304.txt

quote:

UNCLASSIFIED
ROUTINE
R 211859Z DEC 17
FM CNO WASHINGTON DC
TO NAVADMIN
INFO CNO WASHINGTON DC
BT
UNCLAS
PASS TO OFFICE CODES:
FM CNO WASHINGTON DC//N1//
INFO CNO WASHINGTON DC//N1//

NAVADMIN 304/17

MSGID/GENADMIN CNO WASHINGTON DC/N1/DEC//

SUBJ/PHYSICAL READINESS PROGRAM POLICY CHANGE//

REF/A/DOC/OPNAV/11JUL11//
REF/B/DOC/NAVPERS/22AUG02//
REF/C/DOC/BUPERS/01MAY15//
REF/D/DOC/BUPERS/6MAY14//
REF/E/DOC/SECNAV/26AUG15//
NARR/REF A IS OPNAVINST 6110.1J, PHYSICAL READINESS PROGRAM.
REF B IS NAVPERS 15560D, NAVAL MILITARY PERSONNEL MANUAL.
REF C IS BUPERSINST 1610.10D, NAVY PERFORMANCE EVALUATION SYSTEMS.
REF D IS BUPERSINST 1430.16F CH-1, ADVANCEMENT MANUAL FOR ENLISTED PERSONNEL
IN THE U.S. NAVY AND U.S. NAVY RESERVE.
REF E IS SECNAVINST 1920.6C CH-5, ADMINISTRATIVE SEPARATION OF OFFICERS.//

RMKS/1. This NAVADMIN announces revised Physical Readiness Program
separation policies. Adjustments to Physical Readiness Program policies
reflect a continued emphasis to invest in and retain our most important
resource, our Sailors. Retention of every capable Sailor is critical to the
operational readiness of the Navy. The goal of the Navys physical readiness
program is to maintain a minimum prescribed level of fitness necessary for
world-wide deployment and to maintain a Sailors long-term health and
wellness. Revisions to references (a), (b), and (c) are forthcoming and will
be published at a later date.

2. Effective immediately:
a. All commands will discontinue processing members for separation as a
result of Physical Fitness Assessment (PFA) failures. Separation orders
resulting from PFA failures prior to Soft End of Active Obligated Service
(SEAOS) with approved dates after 31 March 2018 are cancelled. Officers with
approved separation orders for PFA failure with a directed separation date
prior to 1 March 2018 can request their separation orders be cancelled in
order to remain in the Navy by contacting PERS-834, subject to Secretary of
Navy (SECNAV) approval.
b. MILPERSMAN 1910-170, Separation by Reason of PFA Failure, is
cancelled.

3. The following applies to all enlisted members:
a. Enlisted members who:
(1) Fail one PFA will:
(a) Be issued a NAVPERS 1070/613 via Navy Standard Integrated
Personnel System (NSIPS) to inform them of the PFA failure.
(b) Be enrolled in the Fitness Enhancement Program (FEP) until
passing the next official PFA.
(c) Not be frocked or advanced. Members may regain eligibility
for promotion by passing a command-directed monthly FEP mock PFA. However,
they must still remain enrolled in FEP until passing the next official PFA.
(2) Fail two or more consecutive PFAs will continue service until
SEAOS. Additionally these members:
(a) Will be ineligible for advancement under reference (a).
(b) Will be ineligible to reenlist or extend under reference (b).
(c) Will receive an adverse report that states Significant
Problems on evaluation under reference (c).
(d) Will be detailed as required. Changes to any program that
has specific PFA requirements will be announced via revision to its governing
instruction.
(e) May regain eligibility for advancement and reenlistment by
passing one subsequent official PFA. In line with references (c) and (d),
members must obtain the recommendation of their CO for advancement and
retention on their most recent evaluation. This may require a special
evaluation to restore retention or advancement recommendations after a member
passes an official PFA.
b. For those members who currently have approved separation or Fleet
Reserve dates as a result of the previous PFA separation policy, the
following information and guidelines are provided:
(1) Members who currently have approved separation dates not aligned
to their SEAOS on or before 31 March 2018 must contact their chain of command
and decide no later than 1 February 2018 whether to cancel their
separation/reserve orders and remain on active duty or execute their orders
as originally planned. Every effort will be made to retain Sailors who
desire to stay Navy.
(2) Enlisted members with SEAOS between 1 January 2018 and 30 June
2018 who are ineligible for retention or cannot submit a Career Waypoints (C-
WAY) application due to adverse evaluations as a result of past PFA failure
history and desire to stay Navy are authorized an extension to regain
eligibility with command endorsement as follows:
(a) Requested extension length should be of sufficient duration
to allow for processing of a future special evaluation and application in C-
WAY (if applicable), but must not exceed 30 September 2018.
(b) Because this is an exception to policy, this action will not
require a C-WAY quota (if applicable).
(c) Once the member successfully passes the official Cycle 1,
2018 PFA, and has retention eligibility restored from the CO, the member can
submit their reenlistment/extension request directly to their CO, or Bureau
of Naval Personnel (BUPERS) Enlisted Community Manager (BUPERS-32) for
enlisted members who must use C-WAY. For Nuclear-trained members, all
requests must be submitted via their CO to Deputy Chief of Naval Operations
Nuclear Program Manager (OPNAV (N133)). In all cases, the Physical Readiness
Information Management Systems (PRIMS) results must show the Cycle 1, 2018
results.
c. Members with approved Fleet Reserve dates on or after 31 July 2018
who pass Cycle 1, 2018 and desire to remain on active duty must first submit
a cancellation request no later than 1 May 2018 to Commander, Navy Personnel
Command (COMNAVPERSCOM) Enlisted Retirements Office (PERS-836) at the
following e-mail address: enlisted_active_duty_retirements(at)navy.mil. Once
received, approval of the Fleet Reserve cancellation request serves as
authority to cancel previously issued retirement orders, which are issued by
the local supporting personnel office. PERS-836 will forward all approved
cancellation requests to COMNAVPERSCOM, Enlisted Assignment Division (PERS-
40), and to OPNAV (N133) for all nuclear-trained members.
d. Enlisted personnel affected by this change to PFA separation policy,
who desire to stay Navy, must maintain advancement eligibility as outlined in
reference (d) to participate in the Navy-Wide Advancement Exam (NWAE). This
may require a special evaluation to restore advancement recommendation once
the member passes an official PFA.
e. Members who desire to stay Navy:
(1) Who are not in receipt of separation/retirement orders but are
within seven months of their Projected Rotation Date (PRD) must contact their
detailer who can make a Career Management System Interactive (CMS-ID)
application for them in the next CMS-ID cycle.
(2) Who are in their normal 7-12 month negotiation window should
submit an application via CMS-ID. Those affected members beyond 12 months
from their PRD will follow the normal detailing processes.

4. The following applies to all officers who:
a. Fail one PFA will:
(1) Not be eligible for promotion. Commands are required to delay
promotion and inform PERS-833. Members will regain eligibility for promotion
by passing the next command-directed monthly FEP mock PFA.
(2) Be issued a Letter of Notification to inform them of the PFA
failure.
(3) Be enrolled in the FEP until passing the next official PFA.
b. Fail two or more consecutive PFAs will be submitted to PERS-834 for
administrative separation processing under reference (e).
(1) If SECNAV determines the officer is to be separated (or retired),
this action will occur at the PRD of the officer or upon the determination of
SECNAV, whichever is later.
(2) If an officer passes an official PFA prior to the decision of
SECNAV on retention or separation, processing will cease and the member will
be retained upon notification to PERS-834. A special fitness Report may be
submitted to document the officers satisfactory physical readiness status
under reference (c).
(3) Additionally, officers who fail two or more consecutive
PFAs will receive an adverse report that states Significant Problems
on their fitness report under reference (c).

5. Additional information that applies to all members:
a. Effective 1 January 2018 all PFA failures will reset to zero only for
enlisted reenlistment policy and officer administrative separation policy as
outlined in paragraphs 3.a and 4. No other records will be changed such as
PRIMS, Fitness Reports or Evaluations.
b. All members must have a Body Composition Assessment (BCA) completed
within five work days of reporting to a new command. This BCA spot-check
will not count as the official BCA for newly reported members during the
command PFA cycle, regardless of the status of the official command PFA
cycle. Members exceeding Age Adjusted Body Fat Standards (AAS) during spot-
checks must be enrolled into Command FEP.
c. FEP enrollment and disenrollment determination: Upon either a BCA
spot-check failure or PFA failure, members must participate in FEP until they
pass an official PFA and are within AAS.
d. All members who have regained promotion/advancement eligibility are
reminded of their ability to communicate in writing to promotion and
selection boards as outlined in MILPERSMAN 1420-010 of reference (b) and
reference (d).

6. The Nuclear Propulsion Program Manager, OPNAV (N133), will remain the
single point of contact on all PFA failure policy matters relating to Naval
Nuclear Propulsion Program (NNPP) personnel.
a. Nuclear-trained members may be granted an exception to the criteria
of paragraphs 3 and 4 with approval of OPNAV (N133).
b. All recommendations for administrative separation processing for
nuclear-trained officers will be submitted to OPNAV (N133) for review and
approval.

7. Points of contact. Physical Readiness Program, Mr. Bill Moore at
(901)874-2210 or PRIMS(at)navy.mil. For all other personnel related
policies: NAVPERSCOM at 1-866-827-5672 (U-ASK-NPC).

8. Released by Vice Admiral Robert P. Burke, N1.//

BT
#0001
NNNN
UNCLASSIFIED//

DustyNuts
Jun 1, 2000

Have you seen me?

LingcodKilla posted:

Holy poo poo.

So many tears.

Wonder if uniforms are going to be offered in bigger sizes now.

The new policy is bananas. But hey, the CNO or whoever did say we were a "growing" Navy!

PneumonicBook
Sep 26, 2007

Do you like our owl?



Ultra Carp
Whelp guess I'm still in the navy whoooooo.

To show how angry I am I will get increasingly larger with no repercussions that I care about and then draw a pension at 60 lmao.

Note, due to heart failure I won't ever collect the pension. Go go survivor benefits!

Stultus Maximus
Dec 21, 2009

USPOL May
So first they go from 3 to 2 failures for ADSEP, now they go to unlimited? WTF?

PneumonicBook
Sep 26, 2007

Do you like our owl?



Ultra Carp

Stultus Maximus posted:

So first they go from 3 to 2 failures for ADSEP, now they go to unlimited? WTF?

We crashed some ships.

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maffew buildings
Apr 29, 2009

too dumb to be probated; not too dumb to be autobanned
The only reasonable explanation for this policy is it was enacted so all personnel being denied transfer separation for another service and program have to hang out with fat kids and further piss us off

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