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you can stick with your slow and bloated javascript if you want but I'll be very happy to see it go.
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Dec 31, 2017 18:37
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Shaggar posted:you can stick with your slow and bloated javascript if you want but I'll be very happy to see it go. i too can imagine many things better than javascript for the web but they'll never happen so why bother thinking about them?
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Dec 31, 2017 18:39
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Shaggar posted:javascript was only ever intended to open popup windows and close popup windows and everything else that's been tacked onto it is a disaster. its a very very bad language and its the only reason the web sucks. its not at all the fault of the dom. It's almost 2018. Don't you think you should get a different gimmick?
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Dec 31, 2017 18:58
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Zemyla posted:It's almost 2018. Don't you think you should get a different gimmick? are you telling me you don't use a browse with something to block the majority of javascript "content"? (ads)
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Dec 31, 2017 19:08
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Thermopyle posted:it kind of feels like you read one post somewhere that you disagree with and your article is the response to that https://tomassetti.me/introduction-to-webassembly/ this guy is a serious consultant > For instance, instead of compiling TypeScript to JavaScript, its developers could now compile to WebAssembly. wrong > In short, it is not a new virtual machine, it is a new format for the same JavaScript VM that is included in every browser. wrong > That is not all: it will be possible to port WebAssembly to other platforms. This means that if you write software in a language that compiles to WebAssembly you might be able to run it on .NET. what the gently caress are you smoking this guy literally made a library to parse wasm files and he's getting basic stuff wrong. https://github.com/WebAssembly/design/issues/219 this issue is just entirely lol i could find plenty more if i started looking
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Dec 31, 2017 19:11
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Zemyla posted:It's almost 2018. Don't you think you should get a different gimmick? the problem with being right when the world is wrong is that the world tends to stay wrong shaggar is, and was, and will be, right
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Dec 31, 2017 19:13
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Zemyla posted:It's almost 2018. Don't you think you should get a different gimmick? javascript being bad is no gimmick, friend ! ! !
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Dec 31, 2017 19:13
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Suspicious Dish posted:https://tomassetti.me/introduction-to-webassembly/ so what is wasm actually solving we've had a few posts about problems it doesn't solve
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Dec 31, 2017 19:14
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:the problem with being right when the world is wrong is that the world tends to stay wrong the hard part is differentiating being "right" about the world being flat and being right about relativity
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Dec 31, 2017 19:15
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:so what is wasm actually solving wasm is a high-performance aot compiler target for the web. its memory model is linear memory of floats and integers, and has an ffi that is basically that. if your problem fits into that space (read: "c/c++"), congratulations, wasm is designed for you.
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Dec 31, 2017 19:17
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Xarn posted:
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Dec 31, 2017 19:22
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make some sort of cage for unmanaged languages to run in and then have a javascript api on one side and pseudo syscall thing on the other to exchange buffers with it imo
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Dec 31, 2017 19:28
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Shaggar posted:you can stick with your slow and bloated javascript if you want but I'll be very happy to see it go. yeah, we should be using something fast and lean like WPF and C# lol
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Dec 31, 2017 19:31
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Blinkz0rz posted:yeah but what's the point unless wasm has its own vm? you're still going to have to write the js glue and dom manipulation anyway. the webassembly working group is only four months old, friend. i have confidence they'll do something of note to improve wasm - i don't think we're stuck with its capabilities as it is right now.
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Dec 31, 2017 20:02
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akadajet posted:yeah, we should be using something fast and lean like WPF and C# lol mega-agreedo
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Dec 31, 2017 20:06
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CommunistPancake posted:the webassembly working group is only four months old, friend. i have confidence they'll do something of note to improve wasm - i don't think we're stuck with its capabilities as it is right now. and...what is it actually going to do? to ship its own vm, browser makers will have to adopt the standard at practically the same time or else figure out an interop system and implement it themselves; shades of browser prefixes and all of that pain. otherwise isn't webass basically just ffi for the browser?
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Dec 31, 2017 20:45
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i have the feeling your conclusion in this discussion is that javascript is good enough and i really don't want to end up there
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Dec 31, 2017 20:47
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Internet Janitor posted:pic removed Thanks, but the part I didn't get was the dig at Wolfram 
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Dec 31, 2017 20:55
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it's more that js isn't going anywhere so anything you do with webass is going to have to involve js anyway so what's the point unless you're in a special case where things you're doing in the browser aren't dom-related but have serious performance implications so congrats, webass is going to be the new method for serving more ads, not content
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Dec 31, 2017 20:55
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anything you do with typescript is going to have to involve js anyway so what's the point?
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Dec 31, 2017 20:57
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webass don't compile to js
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Dec 31, 2017 21:00
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akadajet posted:yeah, we should be using something fast and lean like WPF and C# lol (screenshot comparison of Windows IoT Core vs. some Linux on raspberry pi) *finger hovering between two choices* hmm now which one of these should I choose
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Dec 31, 2017 21:04
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Xarn posted:Thanks, but the part I didn't get was the dig at Wolfram wolfram is well-known for not reading the literature, like even at an undergraduate level, and then coming up with some basic result and thinking that he's done something really original. he's a genuinely smart guy but likes to reinvent things in new terms which is why ultimately he is going to die not having made any significant contributions
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Dec 31, 2017 21:07
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Blinkz0rz posted:webass don't compile to js you have discovered the true purpose of wäsm
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Dec 31, 2017 21:12
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CommunistPancake posted:anything you do with typescript is going to have to involve js anyway so what's the point? i keep coming back to this. this is a phenomenally stupid thing to post. like, one of the dumbest things i think i've read in a long time. webass will never replace js. it just offloads some of the logic to compiled code which still has to be called and used by the browser. typescript transpiles to valid js and can do dom manipulation natively. ts assets are transpiled and distributed as js files. unless you're doing something computationally expensive that doesn't involve the dom there's no point in using webass over typescript because typescript gives you the same compile-time-like safety with the advantage that a) you're not severely restricted in terms of the data types you can use, and b) ts actually works now and you can use it and not a pipe dream.
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Dec 31, 2017 21:14
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Max Facetime posted:(screenshot comparison of Windows IoT Core vs. some Linux on raspberry pi) just get an apple tv
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Dec 31, 2017 21:17
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rjmccall posted:wolfram is well-known for not reading the literature, like even at an undergraduate level, and then coming up with some basic result and thinking that he's done something really original. he's a genuinely smart guy but likes to reinvent things in new terms which is why ultimately he is going to die not having made any significant contributions the difference is Lisp did all this stuff like 25-30 or more years ago, and it’s the rest of the industry that’s reinventing things in new terms
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Dec 31, 2017 21:26
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akadajet posted:just get an apple tv bonus: no UIWebView on Apple TV so web “developers” can’t just wrap an app around a web page and claim it’s native
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Dec 31, 2017 21:28
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Blinkz0rz posted:i keep coming back to this. this is a phenomenally stupid thing to post. like, one of the dumbest things i think i've read in a long time. wásm won't replace js right now. because it's been out for only about nine months so far. do you think that "how should web assembly access the dom" would be a question if there weren't plans for it to access the dom
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Dec 31, 2017 21:32
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your argument seems to be "why should anyone use web assembly ever if it doesn't have all the features right now?"
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Dec 31, 2017 21:34
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but in the end, what's the point? if it's legit to not have to write js for the browser you'd be better served to spend some time learning js rather than waiting until ~~future~~ when webass might do what you want
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Dec 31, 2017 21:34
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i already know js and i yearn for the day i am freed from this mind prison
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Dec 31, 2017 21:35
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CommunistPancake posted:your argument seems to be "why should anyone use web assembly ever if it doesn't have all the features right now?" yes, this is exactly my point. webass is a pipe dream and it's stupid to talk about it as if it were useful. just learn loving javascript and stop complaining
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Dec 31, 2017 21:35
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I predict that webass will be used for the same things that asm.js is used for and that's all there will be to it.
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Dec 31, 2017 21:35
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i think everyone who wants to see webasm be a thing already know js, because they are web developers who hate js
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Dec 31, 2017 21:38
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maybe? idk i'd rather write js than c or c++ but maybe that's just me
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Dec 31, 2017 21:38
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Blinkz0rz posted:i too can imagine many things better than javascript for the web this is a phenomenally stupid thing to post it is exactly this attitude that prevents making something actually good. why have we bothered with any advancement in tooling or languages? in the time it took to make java everyone could have just learned c instead. it's a perfectly fine language and it's not going anywhere and has support on everthing in the foreseeable future
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Dec 31, 2017 21:51
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so, you could imagine introducing a sound, statically-typed vm that generalizes javascript. it would be very jvm-like, or maybe clr-like, but with explicit js support, so e.g. it would have fundamental value types/operations like "uint16" and "uint16 +" but also "js value" and "js +", "js call", etc because of all the dynamic js operations it would naturally be a highly dynamic vm with all sorts of dynamic specialization optimizations, like good js implementations are today, but the primitive types would support some additional expressiveness without performance penalty, and the vm would naturally have direct access to the javascript heap then sure, that's a vm which might gradually replace js. but it would be very jvm-like, in that you couldn't really imagine compiling an arbitrary language to it without basically rewriting half of the frontend, you certainly couldn't just compile llvm to it. it would be a lot like, well, the jvm in that it would have its own family of languages designed to target it. and you would not easily be able to support stuff like stack-allocated objects but that is very much not what wasm is designed to be rjmccall fucked around with this message at 22:05 on Dec 31, 2017 |
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Dec 31, 2017 21:57
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Suspicious Dish posted:https://tomassetti.me/introduction-to-webassembly/ Uh, he calls himself a software architecture and does nothing other than creating awful DSLs. 
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Dec 31, 2017 21:58
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HoboMan posted:this is a phenomenally stupid thing to post there's a big difference between creating a language and vm in isolation and trying to get google, mozilla, microsoft, opera, apple, etc to work together and fundamentally change the way that browsers work. my point is that webass isn't currently solving any problem that actually learning js would solve if the future state of it is that it allows other languages to interact with the browser that would be awesome, but web history is littered with applets, flash, activex, and other sadness which tried to do the same thing.
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Dec 31, 2017 22:00
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