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Comfy Fleece Sweater posted:These lil guys own, what series are they from? PJ Masks... my kid is obsessed. It's poo poo.
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Jan 4, 2018 21:02
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zaurg posted:JFC!!! Goons I need help. What can I say to my dad who is about to withdraw money out of his retirement account to put into crypto? He put 20k of savings into it LESS THAN A WEEK AGO and has seen it go up and today calls me convincing himself that it's silly to keep money in 401k/retirement "making only 10%". I want him to just be happy loving around with 20k into it. What reasons can I give him to settle the gently caress down the commodity has less than no value. bitcoins have large negative value. every bitcoin transaction requires the weekly energy usage of an american household. this energy requirement will get worse over time. the commodity has no practical use case and is useless as a currency for the following reasons:
cryptocurrencies are currently poor as a purely speculative bubble investment because your shoeshiner is giving you cryptocurrency tips if someone can't be convinced with those facts it is probably impossible to convince them
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Jan 4, 2018 21:27
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 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQBLDLkSlps ghosTTy fucked around with this message at 21:31 on Jan 4, 2018 |
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Jan 4, 2018 21:29
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the matrix was created to mine bitcoins edit - gently caress yo edit
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Jan 4, 2018 21:31
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"sharing economy"
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Jan 4, 2018 21:32
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FogHelmut posted:the matrix was created to mine bitcoins 
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Jan 4, 2018 21:32
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Often Abbreviated posted:it's hard keeping out when you see someone else doing so well right in front of you. Yes, that's why bubbles always suck so many people in and why they crash so hard. It's a hard-wired human brain thing to go "hmm John my neighbour put in $10 and came out with $1000, surely I can put in $10k and come out with $100k, the bubble will CERTAINLY NOT crash on me, it will crash on someone else, I'm smart and I'll get in and get out like a graceful butterfly" and maybe yes but also maybe no and you're not risking $10 like John.
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Jan 4, 2018 21:43
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comedyblissoption posted:explain to him that he is investing in a commodity with less value than beanie babies and tulips Lol, you idiot, it says right there Bitcoin is worth 20,000USD! ... 14.... 11... 15....
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Jan 4, 2018 21:50
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Pochoclo posted:Yes, that's why bubbles always suck so many people in and why they crash so hard. It's a hard-wired human brain thing to go "hmm John my neighbour put in $10 and came out with $1000, surely I can put in $10k and come out with $100k, the bubble will CERTAINLY NOT crash on me, it will crash on someone else, I'm smart and I'll get in and get out like a graceful butterfly" just posted this one today to this effect tl;dr no money can come out that didn't go in
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Jan 4, 2018 22:07
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divabot posted:just posted this one today to this effect tl;dr no money can come out that didn't go in Less comes out than what goes in because all these predatory exchanges want them Feeeeeeeeeeeeees.
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Jan 4, 2018 22:11
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I just caught up on this thread, 130+ pages, after I heard Bircoin took a hit. Everything about Bitcoin today is so different than it was a few years ago. The “advantages” preached by true believers from back then are no longer true and now it’s not even a currency any longer. The entire thing feels like a new Star Wars trilogy, some things are familiar, some are new versions of the events of the past. Are there still forums with small time businesses like the Silver Kid and petty scammers? Edit: ^^^ like fees! Where did fees come from?!
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Jan 4, 2018 22:13
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Ruggan posted:but this has been a flaw for a long time, so who knows if the NSA or some other group has known about it for longer... And of course they have Dude I bet you some black hat figured it out in the 90s and has been lolling about it for years
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Jan 4, 2018 22:13
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Pochoclo posted:Yes, that's why bubbles always suck so many people in and why they crash so hard. It's a hard-wired human brain thing to go "hmm John my neighbour put in $10 and came out with $1000, surely I can put in $10k and come out with $100k, the bubble will CERTAINLY NOT crash on me, it will crash on someone else, I'm smart and I'll get in and get out like a graceful butterfly" very true Adar posted:I've felt like it was going to be any week now the entire time I've been in and still think it's going to be soon, but it's not going to happen in the month before or in the first little while after Wall Street, which is either insanely long on BTC or staying away from it, pours all the money in the world on the pile. virtually every other time period is insanely risky but I pulled out my initial capital months ago so who cares on the other hand this is also very true and most people reading this thread should've figured this out months ago Adar fucked around with this message at 22:32 on Jan 4, 2018 |
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Jan 4, 2018 22:21
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One thing that's mentioned quite a bit (including in divabot's most recent article) is "Oh if you just sold $1 million of Bitcoin the price would drop $8000" or something like that, making the market cap a useless metric. That's gotta be true about every company listed on a stock exchange too. We say the market cap of AMZN is $500b but that's at its current price of $1200. Is there a way to see how many shares you'd have to sell of AMZN to get the price down to $1000, for instance?
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Jan 4, 2018 22:21
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CassandraZara posted:One thing that's mentioned quite a bit (including in divabot's most recent article) is "Oh if you just sold $1 million of Bitcoin the price would drop $8000" or something like that, making the market cap a useless metric. That's gotta be true about every company listed on a stock exchange too. We say the market cap of AMZN is $500b but that's at its current price of $1200. Is there a way to see how many shares you'd have to sell of AMZN to get the price down to $1000, for instance? yes, it's the depth of the order book in actually popular shares, like amazon or apple, it'd take a LOT of shares to shift the price way up or down penny stocks are the shitcoins of share trading and have volatility, thin order books and manipulability more like cryptos
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Jan 4, 2018 22:27
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CassandraZara posted:One thing that's mentioned quite a bit (including in divabot's most recent article) is "Oh if you just sold $1 million of Bitcoin the price would drop $8000" or something like that, making the market cap a useless metric. That's gotta be true about every company listed on a stock exchange too. We say the market cap of AMZN is $500b but that's at its current price of $1200. Is there a way to see how many shares you'd have to sell of AMZN to get the price down to $1000, for instance?
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Jan 4, 2018 22:28
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CassandraZara posted:One thing that's mentioned quite a bit (including in divabot's most recent article) is "Oh if you just sold $1 million of Bitcoin the price would drop $8000" or something like that, making the market cap a useless metric. That's gotta be true about every company listed on a stock exchange too. We say the market cap of AMZN is $500b but that's at its current price of $1200. Is there a way to see how many shares you'd have to sell of AMZN to get the price down to $1000, for instance? at this particular moment in time, cashing out $900,000 on GDAX would have dropped the price $1 cashing out six figures the other day raised the price $5 since all I did was put up some sell orders on an uptick and let the market catch up, which is what most people with decent but not overwhelming amounts should do if I were cashing out 5 million and wanted to do it 'correctly' without affecting the market it would take a few hours, but for 5 million dollars you can work a lil' bit there are OTC services and most exchanges have official dark pools that do larger amounts, as well if you have 500 million and want to get rid of all of it, yes, you'll probably have an issue and dent the bubble for a day or two (pls give me some warning first tia)
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Jan 4, 2018 22:41
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comedyblissoption posted:explain to him that he is investing in a commodity with less value than beanie babies and tulips but do you really believe that?
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Jan 4, 2018 22:56
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zaurg posted:but do you really believe that? If bitcoin could be used for anything it would be. I have a pretty solid understanding of why it's not useful (security, transaction limit), but those things deign in comparison to the fact that it's been around for 8 years and nobody is using it for anything other than speculation. This is with a devout fanbase trying to shoehorn it into everything. They just can't do it, it's not useful. It doesn't solve any problems in the real world except for black market transactions, and it was only useful for that when it had low volume and fees because nobody else was using it. This is a separate conversation from whether some crypto will ever be useful for anything, but that doesn't even matter because your bitcoin won't become more useful if, e.g., Ripple becomes the new global currency (it won't).
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Jan 4, 2018 23:01
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anyone posted this yet? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dErRj6V8_xQ zaurg posted:but do you really believe that? tulips and beanie babies ostensibly have some kind of scrap value
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Jan 4, 2018 23:02
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zaurg posted:but do you really believe that? the biggest bitcoin maximalists in the world define the BTC use case as 'a store of value' whatever it is, it's not a store of value if you wanted to buy cryptocurrency for the tech, it would not be bitcoin also, you're zaurg, so...please don't bet on cryptocurrency
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Jan 4, 2018 23:15
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Andy Dufresne posted:If bitcoin could be used for anything it would be. I have a pretty solid understanding of why it's not useful (security, transaction limit), but those things deign in comparison to the fact that it's been around for 8 years and nobody is using it for anything other than speculation. This is with a devout fanbase trying to shoehorn it into everything. They just can't do it, it's not useful. It doesn't solve any problems in the real world except for black market transactions, and it was only useful for that when it had low volume and fees because nobody else was using it. Gotcha. Makes sense, how can anyone argue against that? The separate conversation is really what I was thinking about. Couldn't one of these supposed "lightning fast, low transaction fees" cryptos become bigger than bitcoin one day and perhaps actually be used for something other than speculation? I guess it's a long shot. Just seems like there has to be something to come out of this. zaurg fucked around with this message at 23:20 on Jan 4, 2018 |
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Jan 4, 2018 23:16
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zaurg posted:Gotcha. The separate conversation is really what I was thinking about. Couldn't one of these supposed "lightning fast, low transaction fees" cryptos become bigger than bitcoin one day and perhaps actually be used for something other than speculation? I guess it's a long shot. Just seems like there has to be something to come out of this. the only use case over actual money is that they are exploiting loopholes to avoid taxes and fees that pertain to actual money
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Jan 4, 2018 23:18
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bitcoin is not even useful for the black market because it is not anonymous compromise a black market and then subpoena an exchange where users exchange bitcoins for fiat currency and you have a public ledger of their financial activity tumbling is no panacea to cover your tracks. tumblers can be compromised by authorities as well.
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Jan 4, 2018 23:21
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Right, they are an expensive solution in search of a problem.
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Jan 4, 2018 23:22
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FogHelmut posted:the only use case over actual money is that they are exploiting loopholes to avoid taxes and fees that pertain to actual money One of the big red flags that worries me is you have what APPEARS to be these shitcoins popping up all over the place that follow the same mold; Think of some wild idea while high, write out a cute whitepaper, make a pretty web site, get some peoples to buy in, do an ICO, have people like my dad throw thousands/millions of dollars into it, BOOM PROFIT. All on NOTHING. No product, nothing. Just some 2-3 year roadmap with a plan to develop something that seems highly unlikely.
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Jan 4, 2018 23:23
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comedyblissoption posted:bitcoin is not even useful for the black market because it is not anonymous what about the cryptos that claim they are actually anonymous? are you not familiar with them or ignoring them? or are you saying they're not anonymous either. not talking about bitcoin.
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Jan 4, 2018 23:24
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At least you can use wonderhangers to hang your clothes up with.
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Jan 4, 2018 23:24
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there are certainly use cases for a distributed, trustless ledger those use cases can be argued in a couple of years, sometime after every instance of such a ledger is no longer overvalued by a factor of 100 and long after people like zaurg take the first sentence to be a green light to dump money into v1.0 when it'll take until 4.0 at best for that to not be lighting money on fire
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Jan 4, 2018 23:24
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If cryptos are primarily used for small transactions on a small scale, i.e. drugs or microtransactions for international games, online poker, etc, I can see something like Ripple being useful. They will never take off to widespread institutional use because they are impossible to insure. That puts a pretty hard limit on their value IMO.Andy Dufresne posted:Imagine if you could clear out anyone's bank account in an untraceable way from across the world with nothing but their online banking password.
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Jan 4, 2018 23:28
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zaurg posted:what about the cryptos that claim they are actually anonymous? are you not familiar with them or ignoring them? or are you saying they're not anonymous either. not talking about bitcoin. Sure, you could imagine a scale-able cryptocurrency that doesn't fundamentally suck as a currency (ignoring security and legal issues). I have no idea if that actually exists yet. The entire ecosystem is a garbage fire right now and lol at trying to go through literally over 1,000 cryptocurrencies hyped with extreme ponzi propaganda to try to figure out what doesn't suck.
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Jan 4, 2018 23:30
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zaurg posted:The separate conversation is really what I was thinking about. Couldn't one of these supposed "lightning fast, low transaction fees" cryptos become bigger than bitcoin one day and perhaps actually be used for something other than speculation? I guess it's a long shot. Just seems like there has to be something to come out of this. It's quite possible it will. It's also possible it won't. Don't forget that we have heard about AR, VR, and AI for a long time now (20-30 years) and they still haven't found a place where they are sufficiently useful. It's very unlikely you could invest in it early. Why would a bank pick up a solution where others already own all the coins? In any case, this future coin or technology very likely doesn't exist today, and you can most likely only tell it has won 10 years after it already has. Right now, the technology is struggling with extremely basic properties nobody wants and fundamental misconceptions repeated until "everybody" thinks them true (Bitcoin is not a distributed ledger, it's a replicated ledger: everybody has a full copy of everything, there is no limit on Bitcoins: there's just a current consensus not to ever mine more than 23 million, but no guarantee that doesn't change in the future). Friendster and MySpace are forgotten for Facebook today, as are Yahoo and Altavista for Google, Motorola and Nokia for Apple and Samsung. The first mover will most likely not win long term.
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Jan 4, 2018 23:35
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wide stance posted:That's normal. The few unlucky people who got their transfer hosed up are burning the place down as to be expected.
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Jan 4, 2018 23:39
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comedyblissoption posted:that's a fair counterpoint. a rebuttal would be that the market cap of beanie babies is materially different than the market cap of amazon stock. I don't think so. What's true is that market cap is a bullshit metric for anything except for talking about an asset's value on the open market, and that's true whether you're talking about cryptocurrency or stocks. It doesn't tell you how much it costs to buy out that asset, how much money was pumped into the asset (a common mistake made by cryptocurrency "gurus"), likely future earnings, the legitimacy or trustworthiness of the investment, or anything like that. You can use it to refer to the overall value of a cryptocurrency or stock, but that's about it. But the second part of your post does apply. Amazon is a huge business, and it gives value to its shares by making shitloads of money. Bitcoin doesn't make money; it loses it, perpetually, by design, to the giant pyre of mining.
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Jan 5, 2018 00:00
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It's kind-of a fair point. Back a decade ago, Microsoft invested $250M in Facebook, giving it a valuation of $15B. That was ridiculous at the time but turned out to make some sense. An important difference is that for stocks, you also have an inner value (the actual value of assets like buildings and immaterial bullshit like goodwill and brand recognition) plus an earning potential. For butts, both of these are zero (or negative earning counting energy pumped into mining).
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Jan 5, 2018 00:14
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Adar posted:there are certainly use cases for a distributed, trustless ledger - yourself, to remember secrets - yourself, not to gently caress up transactions - your computer, not to be compromised - your bitcoin software, to be accurate and benign - other people, that they will interpret the information stored in the ledger the same way as you do (!!!) forget trustless being better, I submit that it's not even a thing
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Jan 5, 2018 00:22
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I love finding obscure bitcoin stuff like this. Bounty for information leading to arrest of EtherDelta hacker. quote:Dec 27, 2017 - Feb 25, 2018 Also totally unrelated but I searched bitcoin on that same bounty site for more nuggets. Here you can promote our altcoin in your forum signature to get shares in our altcoin! COTI Bitcointalk Signature Bounty quote:Bounty Description:
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Jan 5, 2018 00:22
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There is definitely a use case for some kind of intra-industry "SettleCoin" that could be used to instantly settle a wide variety of poo poo that these days takes T+2 or T+3 due to agent banks having to settle local currency via whatever local system. However there's been an industry-wide push to reduce settlement cycles since before crypto was ever a thing, so it's not like blockchain is some gift from Satoshi/God. Securities and OTC settlements can be quite complex and the actual payment component of that is just one piece. I think UBS has already proposed such a coin. BUT there's no way that any company would use a crypto that's currently out there for this purpose. It would have to be something completely unrelated, and likely not accessible to consumers at all. Blockchain is a different story. There's a use case for shared ledgers in industry but given everything that's gone wrong with Bitcoin hacks and immutable contracts, do you really think they'd leave it accessible to the public? In which case you're talking about permission-based access and from that point it gets hard to justify a blockchain versus just a shared database. We already have the latter for the interest rate swap market for example, trades that are mutually affirmed on Swapswire are legally binding. Most companies as a result use it as their golden source for trade/contract data. What's the benefit of opening that up to more security concerns and making it impossible to change, even if both parties agree to do so? I can't see one.
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Jan 5, 2018 00:32
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Novo posted:like what? one of the main lessons of bitcoin seems to be that despite whatever you want to believe, you always have to trust things: You're making the connection "trustless ledger" -> "buttcoin-like." That's not correct. A ledger does not have to transfer money. It's just an immutable log. Git is largely a trustless distributed ledger and works wonders for software development. It's even actually distributed.
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Jan 5, 2018 00:32
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Party Boat posted:Has he actually cashed out yet because otherwise his savings have gone from £7,000 to £0 He actually hasn't. I've been telling him to take his winnings and leave the table but he thinks it's still gonna go up another 20x. I'm torn whether to wish him well, knock his head or buy in myself.
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Jan 5, 2018 00:34
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