Star Citizen: Death of a Space Thread?

The Something Awful Forums > Archives > Comedy Goldmine > The Goodmine > Star Citizen: Death of a Space Thread?

D_Smart: May 11, 2010; by FactsAreUseless; College Slice

EmesiS posted:

I have been questioning my own sanity in failing to see any viewpoint but the one you present. The previous Dallas/Whataburger/Exclusive conversation was melting my brain. If we correct the terms I would think it obvious that:
CryTek(CryEngine) = Whataburger
Dallas = CIG/RSI
Exclusive = tane

The earlier comparison fails because it assumes an unnamed agent seller, and exclusive right holder, in Dallas. In this case Dallas is CIG/RSI, and the earlier comparison fails to appreciate the the logical conclusion of that argument (once corrected) would mean that once Dallas has exclusive right to Whataburger no other city may sell Whataburger. This would be so obviously detrimental to Whataburger as to be wholly inconceivable.

I could be missing something here, and I am all for the devils advocate, but why even pretend that the term exclusive is debatable. There is no scenario one could imagine where the practical reality of CIG's interpretation is remotely reasonable.

Are you serious? If they were to exclusively use CryEngine, and nothing else, them switching to Lumberyard is a material breach of the GLA. So, short of admitting that they did violate it, this is their defense. Yes, I know - it's hilarious. But you'd be surprised at how often that happens. It's all going to be down to the merits and interpretation of "intent". Skadden aren't stupid. And Ortwin, who negotiated and helped draft the GLA, is in a particularly bad spot because HE is going to be deposed on that specifically. God, I hope he lies under oath that it was his interpretation of it.

----------------
This thread brought to you by a tremendous dickhead!

# ? Jan 6, 2018 22:03

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 21, 2024 11:05

The Titanic: Sep 15, 2016; Unsinkable

Goobs posted:

the year is 2018. people still reference the over 9000 meme un-ironically.

Memes age with time like fine wine. Referencing a meme probably over 15 years old gives the post distinction.

# ? Jan 6, 2018 22:03

Daztek: Jun 2, 2006

Nyast posted:

Well, that's if they argue that "only us in the entire world have the rights to use Cryengine no matter the product". Which is completely stupid.

Instead they're arguing that "only us in the entire world have the rights to use Cryengine [for Star citizen]". Which is equally stupid, but in a different way. Since they own the IP of SC in the first place. That line shouldn't even exist in the first place in that case, since it's standard copyright protection to say that nobody else can do anything with the product you own.

So I'm at a loss, I'm not sure which one they're arguing, both make no sense to me. Only Crytek's version kind of makes sense, even if I agree it seems to lack a more explicit clause in the "restrictions" chapter. But at least it makes some sense. CIG arguments do not.

https://i.imgur.com/ll5NTMy.gifv

Hope this helps

# ? Jan 6, 2018 22:04

D_Smart: May 11, 2010; by FactsAreUseless; College Slice

Nyast posted:

No, but seriously, there's so much potential for lolz that I almost want that to be true.

CIG defenders: "yeah we've got an exclusive right to use Cryengine"

Judge: "if you did, why did you never attack any of the Cryengine licensees in the past 5 years" ?

Amazon: "Actually Mr. Judge, we'd like to side up with Crytek on that matter. Otherwise our newly acquired Lumberyard engine is illegal".

pretty much!

----------------
This thread brought to you by a tremendous dickhead!

# ? Jan 6, 2018 22:05

intardnation: Feb 18, 2016; I'm going to space!

thatguy posted:

If any of you guys get upset if Crytek loses then you're playing the game wrong.

As long as I can laugh at poo poo I am happy.

# ? Jan 6, 2018 22:08

intardnation: Feb 18, 2016; I'm going to space!

TheAgent posted:

I'm only going to be upset if this doesn't go to an actual courtroom

because I will sit in on this poo poo for reals lol

skadden intern - please get the amd letter for discovery.

# ? Jan 6, 2018 22:09

The Titanic: Sep 15, 2016; Unsinkable

boviscopophobic posted:

Legal docs (not doxx), grab them while they're hot. Includes CIG's response, a motion to dismiss, and a copy of the GLA.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1mPjfXrjAf9RUq3_5cJgd-hF-I5XoCQta

Comedy addendum: they really did invoke the "wrong company" defense.

I�m glad CIG never stops being slimy and despite being an international corporation with hundreds of employees, it�s always got that fly by night and questionable professionalism outlook.

# ? Jan 6, 2018 22:11

Scruffpuff: Dec 23, 2015; Fidelity. Wait, was I'm working on again?

So again MoMA was wrong when he implied that Derek was just telling who he thought the defense would be, when in fact he knew for some time.

For those keeping score, that means that 100% of everything MoMA says is empirically false. With that in mind, I am ready to reveal who MoMA is - the truth was in front of us the whole time.

His name, ManOfManyAliases, must, based on what we know, be a lie. Therefore, MoMA is not a man. In addition, she must not have many aliases. Hence a more appropriate name would be LadyOfFewAliases, or LOFA, a clear anagram of LOAF.

Sup, Ben. I always knew you had bigger boobs than the rest of us.

# ? Jan 6, 2018 22:15

IncredibleIgloo: Feb 17, 2011

D_Smart posted:

God, I hope he lies under oath that it was his interpretation of it.

Skadden: Mr. Freyermeyer, are you saying that the standard Crytek GLA gives each client the exclusive rights to use of the Crytek game engine, excluding all other companies from using the product?
Ortwin: Yes, that is correct.
Skadden: What leads you to believe that?
Ortwin: I wrote that, so I should know the intention.
Skadden: Are you saying that as the IP lawyer for Crytek you gave each licensee exclusive use of the game engine? Wouldn't that be an example of gross incompetence or malfeasance?
Ortwin: ...

# ? Jan 6, 2018 22:15

AlbieQuirky: Oct 9, 2012; Just me and my 🌊dragon🐉 hanging out

Not a lawyer, but I have worked for an organization whose contracts were so ineptly written that they tried to sue someone for breach once and the judge was all, "Dudes, if you want binding contracts, write a coherent contract," so perhaps Ortwin was playing 75-dimensional Hungry Hungry Hippos all along?

# ? Jan 6, 2018 22:16

Dusty Lens: Jul 1, 2015; All Glory unto the Stimpire. Give up your arms and legs and embrace the beautiful agony of electricity that doubles in pain every second.

TBH if you were a vampire you'd be stupid not to lure the hero in a house of mirrors.

# ? Jan 6, 2018 22:16

Bootcha: Nov 13, 2012; Truly, the pinnacle of goaltending; Grimey Drawer

What we saw was essentially bluff calling.

FKKS and CIG are calling that Skadden and CryTek are bluffing, as well as providing the first pieces of evidence to be entered into the case.

Limited to those pieces of evidence, yes, you could argue that CIG are in the right. That's what these initial filings are all about: arguing their merit.

Simply put, Skadden and CryTek are going to have to provide a response to evidence, either in the form of their own evidence, and/or the merit of the defense's evidence in part or in whole (I doubt the latter).

# ? Jan 6, 2018 22:21

AP: Jul 12, 2004; One Ring to fool them all
One Ring to find them
One Ring to milk them all
and pockets fully line them; Grimey Drawer

thatguy posted:

If any of you guys get upset if Crytek loses then you're playing the game wrong.

I don't think Crytek can lose, but this is a perfectly valid point.

# ? Jan 6, 2018 22:24

Beexoffel: Oct 4, 2015; Herald of the Stimpire

Galarox posted:

frorfl

# ? Jan 6, 2018 22:24

The Titanic: Sep 15, 2016; Unsinkable

Tortolia posted:

He can go for the trifecta afterwards and get sued by car rental agencies!

The man who had the world in his palm, and squandered it away with pride and incompetence.

# ? Jan 6, 2018 22:27

Dusty Lens: Jul 1, 2015; All Glory unto the Stimpire. Give up your arms and legs and embrace the beautiful agony of electricity that doubles in pain every second.

Tortolia posted:

He can go for the trifecta afterwards and get sued by car rental agencies!

Where's the Porsche Mr. Roberts.

What do you mean somewhere between San Diego and Costa Rica.

# ? Jan 6, 2018 22:31

AP: Jul 12, 2004; One Ring to fool them all
One Ring to find them
One Ring to milk them all
and pockets fully line them; Grimey Drawer

Nyast posted:

No, but seriously, there's so much potential for lolz that I almost want that to be true.

CIG defenders: "yeah we've got an exclusive right to use Cryengine"

Judge: "if you did, why did you never attack any of the Cryengine licensees in the past 5 years" ?

Amazon: "Actually Mr. Judge, we'd like to side up with Crytek on that matter. Otherwise our newly acquired Lumberyard engine is illegal".

The easier line to take is that they had the exclusive right to make Star Citizen with the Cryengine, which doesn't mean much but is an out for them. They just don't want the court to read it as "you can only use Cryengine to make Star Citizen and no other game engines", anything, anything at all is better than that.

Edit and before anyone jumps on me, I think I understand the intent behind the GLA, it's clear what Crytek thought it meant when it was signed, but it could have been a lot clearer. I really want to see CIG going into discovery and hopefully Space Court, so CIG being able to raise some issues with the allegations isn't a bad thing, as I think it means more chance of the case progressing along those lines.

AP fucked around with this message at 22:41 on Jan 6, 2018

# ? Jan 6, 2018 22:31

SelenicMartian: Sep 14, 2013; Sometimes it's not the bomb that's retarded.

If the agreement is' no one but CIG can make SC' then what's the status of the other 13 companies involved?

# ? Jan 6, 2018 22:36

AP: Jul 12, 2004; One Ring to fool them all
One Ring to find them
One Ring to milk them all
and pockets fully line them; Grimey Drawer

SelenicMartian posted:

If the agreement is' no one but CIG can make SC' then what's the status of the other 13 companies involved?

They'd be covered under subcontractors or whatever, though there was something about getting permission from Crytek, I dunno. I think that probably happened and then stopped, as Crytek mentioned the Faceware company.

# ? Jan 6, 2018 22:40

The Rabbi T. White: Jul 17, 2008

Virtual Captain posted:

But it's not particularly persistent, you change what you're wearing or change your load out, that's really not saved back to the database. We save it locally on a local XML file but that's a really short term solution. The real proper solution is changes to your state, changes to your ship, whatever. Whether it's getting old, dirty or broken, they get saved back out to your entry in the player database"

This is loving hilarious. So you mean to tell me that if I want any ship in the game right now all I need to do is edit a local xml file that the server trusts as authoritative?

I would bet anything that even when (If) they put a solution in place that pulls this data from their end that the initial request will be done by the client and then back to them, allowing for easy intercept and modification.

# ? Jan 6, 2018 22:43

Bootcha: Nov 13, 2012; Truly, the pinnacle of goaltending; Grimey Drawer

AP posted:

They'd be covered under subcontractors or whatever, though there was something about getting permission from Crytek, I dunno. I think that probably happened and then stopped, as Crytek mentioned the Faceware company.

F42 are on there, Faceware is not. But I suspect that argument will be that they aren't using CryEngine, and therefore don't need a CryTek signoff.

# ? Jan 6, 2018 22:44

EmesiS: Feb 5, 2016

game development is loving awesome.

# ? Jan 6, 2018 22:46

AP: Jul 12, 2004; One Ring to fool them all
One Ring to find them
One Ring to milk them all
and pockets fully line them; Grimey Drawer

Bootcha posted:

F42 are on there, Faceware is not. But I suspect that argument will be that they aren't using CryEngine, and therefore don't need a CryTek signoff.

Yeah, I didn't read everything but that's the impression I got too.

# ? Jan 6, 2018 22:46

SelenicMartian: Sep 14, 2013; Sometimes it's not the bomb that's retarded.

2.6 doesn't mention using CE. As long as they are working on THE GAME, Crytek signs off on them.

# ? Jan 6, 2018 22:55

Ayn Marx: Dec 21, 2012

My opinion isn't a lie!!!!!

# ? Jan 6, 2018 22:56

Strangler 42: Jan 8, 2007; SHAVE IT ALL OFF
ALL OF IT

nnnotime posted:

How is Crytek supposed to prove to the court SQ42 was ever built in the CryEngine? Do they have to compel CIG to bring a computer to court and compile the code right in front of the jurors?
Or can Crytek provide evidence from prior marketing materials or web content from CIG that SQ42 existed and was using Crytek assets prior to the alleged Lumberyard switchover?

CIG could say, "We don't have any materials prior to X date since we didn't start building SQ42 until we started to use Lumberyard". I don't know how you would refute that except by compelling CIG to bring in their source code management system or have it examined by the plaintiffs, and CIG could have already wiped or hidden SQ42 development evidence by then.

EDIT: Hmm, I wonder if Crytek has an emails or other exchanges with CIG prior to the Lumberyard switchover that would prove SQ42 was in development with the Crytek engine before then. Perhaps CIG emailed CryTek some SQ42 code they were having issues with.

They have somebody on the inside. somebody who has been working under constant crunch for the past 2 years. Somebody who hates Chris Roberts.

# ? Jan 6, 2018 22:57

Bootcha: Nov 13, 2012; Truly, the pinnacle of goaltending; Grimey Drawer

also please change thread title to Star Citizen: The Stimpire Writes Back (intentionally)

# ? Jan 6, 2018 22:58

Phi230: Feb 2, 2016; by Fluffdaddy

nnnotime posted:

How is Crytek supposed to prove to the court SQ42 was ever built in the CryEngine? Do they have to compel CIG to bring a computer to court and compile the code right in front of the jurors?
Or can Crytek provide evidence from prior marketing materials or web content from CIG that SQ42 existed and was using Crytek assets prior to the alleged Lumberyard switchover?

CIG could say, "We don't have any materials prior to X date since we didn't start building SQ42 until we started to use Lumberyard". I don't know how you would refute that except by compelling CIG to bring in their source code management system or have it examined by the plaintiffs, and CIG could have already wiped or hidden SQ42 development evidence by then.

EDIT: Hmm, I wonder if Crytek has an emails or other exchanges with CIG prior to the Lumberyard switchover that would prove SQ42 was in development with the Crytek engine before then. Perhaps CIG emailed CryTek some SQ42 code they were having issues with.

You have CIG testify to the public advertisements they made. If they lie then it works against them

# ? Jan 6, 2018 23:00

Truga: May 4, 2014; Lipstick Apathy

https://twitter.com/SocialHistoryOx/status/949425538992570369

# ? Jan 6, 2018 23:03

Solarin: Nov 15, 2007

Mne nravitsya posted:

While catching up on the pages i've missed in the thread......................I was awed by Beet's Wagon

Stupid sexy Beetwagon

# ? Jan 6, 2018 23:06

Dusty Lens: Jul 1, 2015; All Glory unto the Stimpire. Give up your arms and legs and embrace the beautiful agony of electricity that doubles in pain every second.

nnnotime posted:

How is Crytek supposed to prove to the court SQ42 was ever built in the CryEngine

My guess would be thousands of emails, staff exchanges, trainings and build sharing across multiple versions.

The point at which that communication ceased is probably going to fold into the part where CIG failed to provide updated build info to Crytek.

At the moment we're all just spinning wheels. However my lizard brain is telling me that this lawsuit wasn't launched without planning in advance for these types of rebuttals. If the 8000 word version of "nuhuh" was enough to disarm the case I imagine they would have been advised to find another way to proceed.

"Skadden gets poo poo pushed in due to not anticipating the very obvious" generally isn't the kind of headline that I imagine people chase.

# ? Jan 6, 2018 23:09

Strangler 42: Jan 8, 2007; SHAVE IT ALL OFF
ALL OF IT

Dusty Lens posted:

My guess would be thousands of emails, staff exchanges, trainings and build sharing across multiple versions.

The point at which that communication ceased is probably going to fold into the part where CIG failed to provide updated build info to Crytek.

At the moment we're all just spinning wheels. However my lizard brain is telling me that this lawsuit wasn't launched without planning in advance for these types of rebuttals. If the 8000 word version of "nuhuh" was enough to disarm the case I imagine they would have been advised to find another way to proceed.

"Skadden gets poo poo pushed in due to not anticipating the very obvious" generally isn't the kind of headline that I imagine people chase.

They can pull up Bugsmashers and point to Cryengine code on the screen. The most open development in history, guys.

# ? Jan 6, 2018 23:11

Colostomy Bag: Jan 11, 2016; C-Bangin' it

The discovery process might be interesting.

$160 million to keep up with space objects and LTI stuff which they failed at. You think the emails are going to come this easy?

# ? Jan 6, 2018 23:15

Solarin: Nov 15, 2007

TheAgent posted:

I mean how do you even like

how do you even write this and not go "what the gently caress are we doing here guys"

# ? Jan 6, 2018 23:19

G0RF: Mar 19, 2015; Some galactic defender you are, Space Cadet.

thatguy posted:

If any of you guys get upset if Crytek loses then you're playing the game wrong.

^This guy gets it. Or thatguy.

# ? Jan 6, 2018 23:20

Mirificus: Oct 29, 2004; Kings need not raise their voices to be heard

# ? Jan 6, 2018 23:25

Beet Wagon: Oct 19, 2015

I'll go on record as saying Crytek losing (not that I have any guess one way or another, this poo poo show is only just beginning) is actually bad for Crobbler and great for future comedy generation.

I mean sure, of course it would be funny if reality took the easy way out and Crytek got to strangle Star Citizen in the crib, but it'd be even funnier if CIG had no excuse and the world got to see it in all its glory.

# ? Jan 6, 2018 23:29

Colostomy Bag: Jan 11, 2016; C-Bangin' it

The weird twist will be when Irish Smart is called to the stand as an expert witness.

# ? Jan 6, 2018 23:34

Raskolnikov: Nov 25, 2003

Breetai posted:

I cleaned it up a little by delineating the individual letters in different colours, but the silly man really has a problem with crossing his ts.

Skadden Response: "See you next Thursday, in space court."

# ? Jan 6, 2018 23:39

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 21, 2024 11:05

karoshi: Nov 4, 2008; "Can somebody mspaint eyes on the steaming packages? TIA" yeah well fuck you too buddy, this is the best you're gonna get. Is this even "work-safe"? Let's find out!

Colostomy Bag posted:

The weird twist will be when Irish Smart is called to the stand as an expert witness.

Crobber is convicted but runs for it. Believing Ireland is not part of Europe (because it's an island) he flys there. The Interpol is involved and an Irish policeman is tasked with apprehending him.

# ? Jan 6, 2018 23:44

The Something Awful Forums > Archives > Comedy Goldmine > The Goodmine > Star Citizen: Death of a Space Thread?

«‹›6530 »