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also yes destroy the states and territories if only to get rid of the hell that is coag
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Jan 24, 2018 06:57
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Whitlam posted:If we're on government reformation chat, I'm unironically in favour of abolishing local councils. I have to deal with a bunch for work and in my experience, they're universally shite because of so many different things that the best solution is to just get rid of them. There's nothing they do that a state government couldn't do. I agree. I work in the ACT Government which merged council and state jurisdiction at self government and HOLY poo poo does everything run smoothly. Abolish local councils. Make more states.
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Jan 24, 2018 06:57
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Communist Dictatorship is the only answer here, Comrades.
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Jan 24, 2018 07:01
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Hobo Erotica posted:Wrong way round Whitlam! Get rid of states, there's nothing they do that the federal / locals can't do. Surely we need councils more than we need states. States rool councilz drool.
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Jan 24, 2018 07:03
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Kafka Syrup posted:I'm super in favour of a Federal Council as head of state, but more like Switzerland than the old model. Each state (NT and ACT become states) directly elects OVOV one councillor as does the First Nations community, with a total of 9, with a rotating Presidency every six month, with a mere majority able to make most decisions and a supermajority of 7 required to use reserve powers to dissolve Parliament. Directly electing people to reserve positions without bipartisan approval is a worrying idea, though. Queensland alone... Whitlam posted:If we're on government reformation chat, I'm unironically in favour of abolishing local councils. I have to deal with a bunch for work and in my experience, they're universally shite because of so many different things that the best solution is to just get rid of them. There's nothing they do that a state government couldn't do. I wouldn't want to heap all of the large local responsibility on the state governments. It'd make the city vs rural neglect problem even worse. I would be in favour of moving from local to regional councils, though. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 07:06 on Jan 24, 2018 |
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Jan 24, 2018 07:03
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MikeJF posted:I wouldn't want to heap all of the large local responsibility on the state governments. It'd make the city vs rural neglect problem even worse. You'd need to break everything down a *lot*; Victoria would prolly have to split up into like 6 or 7 pieces to make it work.
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Jan 24, 2018 07:09
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Getting rid of councils makes a lot more sense than getting rid of states. There's no way that councils could provide the services that the states do and not run into severe funding issues, royally gently caress it up or both. LGA's are by far the most corrupt level of government in Australia, and by and large the majority of them aren't even ashamed of it. The concept of getting rid of the states is pretty nigh on impossible with how fundamental they are in regards to the constitution, where as removing LGA's is something that can be done on a state level.
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Jan 24, 2018 07:09
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CrazyTolradi posted:Getting rid of councils makes a lot more sense than getting rid of states. There's no way that councils could provide the services that the states do and not run into severe funding issues, royally gently caress it up or both. LGA's are by far the most corrupt level of government in Australia, and by and large the majority of them aren't even ashamed of it. I'm saying the federal level should do most of what the states do, not councils. And the constitutional thing is part of the problem and why they need to be done away with. Councils are more relevent to people's lives than the states, which are almost a pointlessly duplicitous abstraction. Whitlam posted:States rool councilz drool. goddamn it this makes me madder than almost anything in these threads, I'm out!
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Jan 24, 2018 07:17
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MikeJF posted:I wouldn't want to heap all of the large local responsibility on the state governments. It'd make the city vs rural neglect problem even worse. Which kinds of large local responsibility? IMO the main roles of council are around rubbish collection and maintaining local roads. Those would be super easy to incorporate into a portfolio (hell, roads would actually be easier to deal with, since at the moment you have to muck around with which roads are council maintained vs Vicroads), or just create a new Minister for Local Affairs or some bullshit who has carriage over that poo poo at a state level.
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Jan 24, 2018 07:19
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Abolish senate. Abolish state government. Elect sole governor of states. Elect 7 national level governors for each state to become the commons' new review function.
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Jan 24, 2018 07:20
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Schlesische posted:You'd need to break everything down a *lot*; Victoria would prolly have to split up into like 6 or 7 pieces to make it work. Victoria is already split into regional development areas:  Abolish councils. Move some council responsibility to those levels. Figure out which responsibilities you could move to state instead without causing neglect and move those there. Move state responsiblities like hospitals to federal. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 07:26 on Jan 24, 2018 |
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Jan 24, 2018 07:20
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Hobo Erotica posted:Speaking of which, I thought it was weird when they decided that Clover Moore couldn't simultaneously be the mayor of Sydney and the Member for Sydney in state Parliment. Surely that's a good and efficient use of mayor-ing? To represent the citizens? It was because the Liberals were hoping that she'd choose being a state MP over being Lord Mayor and they'd get someone they liked in instead.
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Jan 24, 2018 07:22
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Hobo Erotica posted:I'm saying the federal level should do most of what the states do, not councils. And the constitutional thing is part of the problem and why they need to be done away with. Councils are more relevent to people's lives than the states, which are almost a pointlessly duplicitous abstraction. Just, no.
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Jan 24, 2018 07:24
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Hobo Erotica posted:I'm saying the federal level should do most of what the states do, not councils. And the constitutional thing is part of the problem and why they need to be done away with. Councils are more relevent to people's lives than the states, which are almost a pointlessly duplicitous abstraction. How are councils more relevant than states? Genuine question. It could be that Hobsons Bay City Council is more poo poo than others (it isn't, they're all trash), but I'd say it has almost zero relevance to my daily life. CrazyTolradi posted:No. Strong agree.
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Jan 24, 2018 07:30
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Surely you would get better economies of scale at a state level for stuff like rubbish bin collection.
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Jan 24, 2018 07:49
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We need local and state government to accomodate corruption at all levels. Removing local government will suffocate low level corruption, and people who outgrow local government corruption need the stepping stone provided by state government before they can move up to federal levels.
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Jan 24, 2018 07:50
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This thread once again displaying the intelligence of a herald sun comments thread
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Jan 24, 2018 07:53
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Whitlam posted:Which kinds of large local responsibility? IMO the main roles of council are around rubbish collection and maintaining local roads. Councils do a fuckload more than rates, rubbish and roads. Largely because the State has dumped a bunch of poo poo on them while simultaneously cutting local council funding options.
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Jan 24, 2018 07:57
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bigis posted:Surely you would get better economies of scale at a state level for stuff like rubbish bin collection. You need to assume: 1. If they could be trusted to organise it without some kind of handout more egregious than there already is to private companies. Remember, all government bureaucracy is still in the grip of neoliberal principles, we can't have government running things, that's socialism. 2. it's not just the mindset that's the problem, you also need administrative genius to figure out the corner cases and produce a generalised system that by and large works with an acceptable level of stuff-up. State departments are already struggling with this kind of thing already. Mr Chips posted:We need local and state government to accomodate corruption at all levels. Removing local government will suffocate low level corruption, and people who outgrow local government corruption need the stepping stone provided by state government before they can move up to federal levels. Sad but true, corruption vectors down fed -> state, state -> council, council -> local business in order of deniability and expendable minions.
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Jan 24, 2018 08:00
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Abolish federal and state leaving a series of mega councils declaring war on each other
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Jan 24, 2018 08:02
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Anidav posted:Abolish federal and state leaving a series of mega councils declaring war on each other They'll need justice. I suggest roaming officers who serve as judge, jury and executioner all in one.
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Jan 24, 2018 08:05
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I can't remember which month it was but we did this in depth a while back, and I don't want to redo it, but I'm talking about education, health, transport, police, etc. all of these would surely be better administered at a federal level and make little to no sense to be duplicated 8 times or whatever. Waste too, but that's another topic I can elaborate on later. Councils are for hokey local stuff like I don't know, color schemes of local streets and bake sales and stuff. Things which affect that community directly.
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Jan 24, 2018 08:08
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MikeJF posted:They'll need justice. I suggest roaming officers who serve as judge, jury and executioner all in one. Some sort of.... Judge that people may or may not Dread
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Jan 24, 2018 08:10
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Hobo Erotica posted:Waste too, but that's another topic I can elaborate on later.
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Jan 24, 2018 08:15
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Lol why is Australia and Japan trying to revive the TPP?
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Jan 24, 2018 08:21
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Hobo Erotica posted:I can't remember which month it was but we did this in depth a while back, and I don't want to redo it, but I'm talking about education, health, transport, police, etc. all of these would surely be better administered at a federal level and make little to no sense to be duplicated 8 times or whatever. Waste too, but that's another topic I can elaborate on later. I don't disagree entirely necessarily, but I think it's important to remember that historically, Australia votes Liberal. If we didn't have a state government in Victoria, we'd lose voluntary assisted dying, have Dutton free to target "African gangs" more or less unrestricted, and goodbye safe schools and Gonski, and that's just off the top of my head. I think it's easy to argue for national unification when it's discussed in a relative vacuum and you ignore who you'd be handing unified power to. Generally speaking, I have no issue with expanding federal powers. Speaking specifically to Australia as it is governed today, gently caress no.
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Jan 24, 2018 08:23
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CrazyTolradi posted:You already do with every post you make. What? And yeah Whitman I hear ya, cheers.
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Jan 24, 2018 08:29
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Maternal & child health programs are one very huge thing councils do that's largely invisible until you encounter those programs. But every single baby born is being routed through the local council, even if it's just the first check where they make sure you're not running a Turpin farm or meth den that's a pretty important community role. It should be better publicised what they do because honestly I thought it was just bus stops and street cleaners until I got more involved.
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Jan 24, 2018 08:42
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G-Spot Run posted:Maternal & child health programs are one very huge thing councils do that's largely invisible until you encounter those programs. But every single baby born is being routed through the local council, even if it's just the first check where they make sure you're not running a Turpin farm or meth den that's a pretty important community role. It should be better publicised what they do because honestly I thought it was just bus stops and street cleaners until I got more involved. That's cool, I didn't know that. Thanks.
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Jan 24, 2018 08:53
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Like a lot of other countries, a huge problem with Australian democracy is lack of engagement and knowledge, which the school system really doesn't help with.
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Jan 24, 2018 09:02
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Whitlam posted:I don't disagree entirely necessarily, but I think it's important to remember that historically, Australia votes Liberal. If we didn't have a state government in Victoria, we'd lose voluntary assisted dying, have Dutton free to target "African gangs" more or less unrestricted, and goodbye safe schools and Gonski, and that's just off the top of my head. The it's hard to predict. Even QLD elects Labor state government's, suggesting people want different voices locally to those they want nationally. If the two levels of government were consolidated then voting patterns would probably become an average of the two.
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Jan 24, 2018 09:47
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https://twitter.com/VICEAU/status/956050124479836160 Old mate's on Vice.
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Jan 24, 2018 09:48
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ScruntyJordies
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Jan 24, 2018 09:50
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Who would've thought Jordies throw away joke about Dutton being secret Prime Minister would become real.
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Jan 24, 2018 09:58
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G-Spot Run posted:Maternal & child health programs are one very huge thing councils do that's largely invisible until you encounter those programs. But every single baby born is being routed through the local council, even if it's just the first check where they make sure you're not running a Turpin farm or meth den that's a pretty important community role. It should be better publicised what they do because honestly I thought it was just bus stops and street cleaners until I got more involved. Isn't this something of an issue due to the inconsistency of support and resources you can get from one council to the next?
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Jan 24, 2018 10:03
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Hobo Erotica posted:I can't remember which month it was but we did this in depth a while back, and I don't want to redo it, but I'm talking about education, health, transport, police, etc. all of these would surely be better administered at a federal level and make little to no sense to be duplicated 8 times or whatever. Waste too, but that's another topic I can elaborate on later. Whitlam posted:That's cool, I didn't know that. Thanks.
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Jan 24, 2018 10:06
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:https://twitter.com/VICEAU/status/956050124479836160 quote:We're not going to link to Shanks' video here, but you can check it out on YouTube if you feel compelled to watch 10 minutes of Reject Shop costume changes. 
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Jan 24, 2018 10:10
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:https://twitter.com/VICEAU/status/956050124479836160 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d87mqdtXz-E
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Jan 24, 2018 10:10
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i hate babies and books so you're only strengthening my disdain for local councils
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Jan 24, 2018 10:12
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MikeJF posted:Isn't this something of an issue due to the inconsistency of support and resources you can get from one council to the next? Probably, but that's likely due to the close relationship between property value, rates, the lack of knowledge we all seem to suffer and "I'm a ratepayer!!!" bs about every competing priority people are aware of.
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Jan 24, 2018 10:27
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