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exploded mummy posted:The only person who probably could could beat Roman in revenue if he was healthy was Daniel Bryan. That's like saying the only person who could beat Diesel as champion is Shawn Michaels. There's better choices available but that's not even the biggest problem. Vince isn't looking for stars because he's somehow convinced himself he has one, even though he does not.
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Apr 14, 2018 01:51
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VJeff posted:I dunno about that, can you imagine many people dropping 60 bucks a pop on most or even some of the PPVs they've put on in the last four years? I imagine that given the need to actually sell something to their audience they would at least raise to the occasion of finding something to sell. They were capable of doing so on occasion before the switch, and I assume their laziness on that front has to do with the fact that they no longer feel like they need to . PPV business wasn’t great when they launched the network but it wasn’t bad either and was far from dead, as can be attested to by the continued on and off popularity of the UFC and boxing, both of whom make good money when they have something people want to see. People used to be willing to pay 60 dollars a PPV, and the network killed that, not anything else. Being ahead of the game in this case cost them money, and I don’t think it gained them anything. Nobody else was going to sell WWE content over a cheap streaming service except them, and they easily could have waited for other content providers to figure out the details and rode their still profitable PPV business until such time as they actually had reason to switch over to such a thing.
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Apr 14, 2018 01:55
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remusclaw posted:People used to be willing to pay 60 dollars a PPV People used to be willing to pay 60 dollars for a VHS movie. People used to be willing to pay 27 dollars for a compact disc.
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Apr 14, 2018 02:23
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Nipponophile posted:People used to be willing to pay 60 dollars for a VHS movie. Yeah, but they died at their time and there is no indication PPV was on its death bed yet. People still buy them, just not from WWE.
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Apr 14, 2018 02:26
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Fun Fact: According to Dave Meltzer, wrestling should have abandoned PPV because it was a dead market and long-term leaving it would be for the best. In 1994.
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Apr 14, 2018 02:27
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remusclaw posted:Yeah, but they died at their time and there is no indication PPV was on its death bed yet. People still buy them, just not from WWE. Only because no non-WWE PPV seller has provided an alternative. You would probably say the same thing about CDs if only one record label had started selling MP3s online. I mean, anecdote and all that, but I've been a Network subscriber for about 2 years now, and there is no way in hell I would ever in my lifetime drop $60 on a PPV. I know I'm not the only one. Nipponophile fucked around with this message at 02:31 on Apr 14, 2018 |
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Apr 14, 2018 02:29
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That's the thing, though. Vince traded the potential money he could've made continuing to sell PPVs to build the infrastructure he has now. All his money comes from stable, guaranteed sources. No peaks and valleys. He traded the money for the ability to do whatever the gently caress he wants and not have to care if his customers like it. Nipponophile posted:I mean, anecdote and all that, but I've been a Network subscriber for about 2 years now, and there is no way in hell I would ever in my lifetime drop $60 on a PPV. Yeah, I got into wrestling in 2016 and I can guarantee I wouldn't have bothered if the Network wasn't a thing.
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Apr 14, 2018 02:34
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Nipponophile posted:Only because no non-WWE PPV seller has provided an alternative. You would probably say the same thing about CDs if only one record label had started selling MP3s online. Nobody else was gonna sell WWE but WWE. There was no other way to get what they were selling except piracy, and now its piracy and 9.99/3.33/free/whatever goofy deal they got going. Not saying it was gonna live forever, but they still had more money to make on PPV and when there wasn’t that money to be made anymore there wasn’t any competing company who was going to be selling WWE on a streaming service. Waiting wouldn’t have hurt them at all.
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Apr 14, 2018 02:35
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If PPVs were still a thing with WWE I'd not watch unless I knew someone willing to shell out for the purposes of a get together. It's the main reason I haven't gotten into UFC despite finding it really appealing.
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Apr 14, 2018 02:50
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It's also a big reason why WWE is so (relatively) strong in the UK. Even if you buy the shows on PPV here, it's only £15-£18. That's basically the same price as a blu-ray movie, or movie ticket with concessions, instead of the same price as a video game or concert ticket. A lot easier to justify buying a show headlined by Randy Orton vs Dolph Ziggler when it costs the same as buying The Emoji Movie blu-ray.
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Apr 14, 2018 03:07
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VJeff posted:"You shouldn't push Bryan because he's too much of a risk for head injuries" falls super flat after Sunday. Roman is someone who they're building the company around for the long term. You can still push Bryan, but you shouldn't be building long term plans around him. Defiance Industries posted:That's like saying the only person who could beat Diesel as champion is Shawn Michaels. There's better choices available but that's not even the biggest problem. Dude you're the one who said that they've left money on the table. There really aren't many in the company that they could be seriously trying to make the longterm ace. Outside of maybe Seth, Dean, or Rusev. Seth is probably the best second choice, but he's kind of in TMZ hell if his profile ever gets high enough.
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Apr 14, 2018 03:13
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exploded mummy posted:Roman is someone who they're building the company around for the long term. Yes, this is exactly my point. Roman is, ostensibly, the single most important talent in all of WWE and Vince sent him out there to get his skull bashed in in a spot that Vince KNOWS FOR A FACT could cause him to get a concussion that will make him miss time, because the last time he did it, the person in question got a concussion and missed the next PPV (and the company lied about it because they couldn't admit their loving insane spot got their guy injured!). Vince sent his big dog out to get his skull crushed because he's too much of a carny freak to do some blading and risk pissing off his precious sponsors (y'know that infrastructure I talked about that lets him do whatever he wants?). This is not a man who cares even one whit about the safety and career longevity of his performers. Any idea that they won't do stuff with Bryan because of health risks is an out and out lie, because they don't care about their talent's health.
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Apr 14, 2018 03:18
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exploded mummy posted:Dude you're the one who said that they've left money on the table. There really aren't many in the company that they could be seriously trying to make the longterm ace. Outside of maybe Seth, Dean, or Rusev. Seth is probably the best second choice, but he's kind of in TMZ hell if his profile ever gets high enough. If Roman Reigns is your current best prospect for a long-term ace, you should have plans that don't involve having a longterm ace right now. As long as they continue to handle Roman like they are now, they're not going to find a big star and the company is going to continue its downward slide in audience. They're going to keep feeding people to him in the hopes THIS will be the one that finally gets Roman over.
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Apr 14, 2018 04:30
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And alas, all we can do is continue to poo poo on it and make sure the narrative WWE is trying to push doesn't take on TV. We could also, not go to shows or buy the network or anything. But they don't need us. They never needed us. Not since the 90's anyway. I miss when they needed us. Being powerless sucks.
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Apr 14, 2018 06:20
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jesus christ have some self-respect
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Apr 14, 2018 06:25
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Thing is until actual numbers go down there is no need for the Roman push to stop. House show numbers seemed to have recovered and while the product doesn't have any heat it's recovered slowly. The dip last summer really was do unhindered Jinder it seems and that got mostly stopped. So unless Roman tanks that bad or worse which hasn't really happened WWE is gonna keep pushing him as the guy.
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Apr 14, 2018 06:50
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I don't think Vince cares about the health of his performers at all, but given how public Daniel Bryan was with his issues I think he does care about his image and the prospect of people throwing more Chris Benoit stories at him. Or rather, he has to care even if he doesn't want to, for the money people. I hope. I tell myself this in the hope that they don't have Daniel Bryan wrestle every week. We talked about the worst Wrestlemania main events - which Wrestlemanias do you guys consider the worst Wrestlemanias, period? Hedgehog Pie fucked around with this message at 11:15 on Apr 14, 2018 |
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Apr 14, 2018 07:22
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MotU posted:HE'S LAUGHING. ROMAN REIGNS IS LAUGHING AT THIS POST I CAN'T BELIEVE IT Well, that's one move. Where's his other two? poo poo. Sorry. Three. I forgot he tries to one arm powerbomb people less good than the women's division. XeeD fucked around with this message at 07:39 on Apr 14, 2018 |
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Apr 14, 2018 07:25
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Hedgehog Pie posted:We talked about the worst Wrestlemania main events - which Wrestlemanias do you guys consider the worst Wrestlemanias, period? 32 is a pretty potent mix of gently caress You and Really Long. As straight up perplexing as 34 and 33 got near the end, at least they were a pretty fun shows prior to that. There was a point in both of those shows where you could say unironically that they were heading for One Of The Best Manias status. 32 had, like. Zack Ryder winning, then went straight into  town.
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Apr 14, 2018 07:50
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I was very bored with the first wrestle mania and the second and third ones. The 4th one was strange and somewhat bad. WM5 was pretty good. I'll keep going later on if i remember so check This post later on but if there's nothing else added onto it then forget it!
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Apr 14, 2018 09:17
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The answer is always WrestleMania 9
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Apr 14, 2018 13:42
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gently caress 32 - that was the first one that I watched live since I was a kid and I had a Wrestlemania party at my house. It was a wet fart that lasted for several hours too long. 2018 was the first year I was more excited for NXT, and it delivered on the hype.
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Apr 14, 2018 14:24
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If most people were paying $60 for it, ain't no way Survivor Series '16 would've ended with a minute squash by 100-year-old Goldberg, and we would've been worse for it. That poo poo was hilarious. I consider there to be a Big 4 of lousy Manias: 9: Cartoony as all hell, Hogan drags the company back into the dark ages 11: Overall it's not terrible terrible, match-wise, just desperate for attention in a world that had moved on 28: Literally nothing happened at this show – no title changes, they didn't even give heel Cole his comeuppance, and the main event set up the next year's Mania 32: Y'all have already spelled it out. Only match I look back on with any satisfaction (women's triple threat) still had a poor ending Both 15 and 25 would make it here if it weren't for the HUGE exception of one excellent match, especially 25 of course. 2000 is an overbooked McMahon-fest, but the talent was too good to hold it down.
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Apr 14, 2018 15:18
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Major shows in the network era are over saturated but overall are much better than they were in last few PPV years. I think people forget how much worse WWE was in like 2010.
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Apr 14, 2018 19:41
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I've heard the term King's Road a few times, can anybody tell me what it means?Feels Villeneuve posted:Major shows in the network era are over saturated but overall are much better than they were in last few PPV years. I think people forget how much worse WWE was in like 2010. I guess it's the difference between the storylines and the roster being absolutely dire and being like "wow this is poo poo" and the roster being so good and the storylines not being there and being like "wow this is so close to being good, it's really frustrating"
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Apr 14, 2018 19:41
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VJeff posted:Yes, this is exactly my point. Roman is, ostensibly, the single most important talent in all of WWE and Vince sent him out there to get his skull bashed in in a spot that Vince KNOWS FOR A FACT could cause him to get a concussion that will make him miss time, because the last time he did it, the person in question got a concussion and missed the next PPV (and the company lied about it because they couldn't admit their loving insane spot got their guy injured!). If wrestling's taught us anything, it's that you can't concuss a Samoan
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Apr 14, 2018 20:45
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VJeff posted:I've heard the term King's Road a few times, can anybody tell me what it means? King's Road is the All Japan wrestling style. Whereas Strong Style is strikes and submissions and MMA influences, King's Road is throws and brawling and suplexes and NWA style storytelling, derived from the fact that All Japan was in the NWA up until 1989.
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Apr 14, 2018 21:07
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I always associated King's Road with headdrops and one-count kickouts.
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Apr 14, 2018 21:19
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The Cameo posted:King's Road is the All Japan wrestling style. Whereas Strong Style is strikes and submissions and MMA influences, King's Road is throws and brawling and suplexes and NWA style storytelling, derived from the fact that All Japan was in the NWA up until 1989. So Strong Style Evolved is basically *takes these two things and smashes them together like action figures*
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Apr 14, 2018 21:24
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Gaz-L posted:I always associated King's Road with headdrops and one-count kickouts. burning hammer owns
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Apr 15, 2018 00:51
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Going by ones I've seen. WM 2 is a mess, and overlong on top of everything, BUT it does have a superb tag team match. WM 9, almost nothing works. There are maybe one or two good matches and a lot of stuff that is COMPLETE garbage, and it's made worse than that finish. And yet I do kinda like the stupid toga party aesthetic. WM 11 is a whole lot of nothing and it's made worse by having Bigelow job to LT (though this was heightened at the time by commentary bringing up his loss and trying to turn it into a face turn.) 27 was pretty bad, 32 and 33 were bland but kinda ran into each other.
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Apr 15, 2018 02:48
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Smoking Crow posted:burning hammer owns kobashi owns
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Apr 15, 2018 03:48
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D.N. Nation posted:If most people were paying $60 for it, ain't no way Survivor Series '16 would've ended with a minute squash by 100-year-old Goldberg, and we would've been worse for it. That poo poo was hilarious. Not only was all that true about 9, but it was also an incredibly unsatisfying Wrestlemania because the heels won all the midcard matches (except for a Steiners win over the Headshrinkers), all the faces won their matches via DQ or count out, two of those being title matches and then Yoko went over Bret. On paper the Hogan title win was the only thing the crowd could celebrate and even that was bullshit. God 12 year old me hated Wrestlemania 9. It was also the day my taste palette shifted and I could no longer enjoy Nacho Cheese Doritos.
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Apr 15, 2018 04:55
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9's wrestling is no worse than most of the earlier mania's but it's the first Mania where you get the feeling the booking is spiteful. Plus the crowd is super dead too
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Apr 15, 2018 05:06
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SatoshiMiwa posted:Plus the crowd is super dead too Weren't they just a bunch of people who happened to be staying on the Strip at the time?
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Apr 15, 2018 05:08
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D.N. Nation posted:I find them all Problematic® in their own ways. Dean's sloppy as hell, Seth is too much MOVEZ for the sake of MOVEZ and Roman doesn't have much in the arsenal, you know? In terms of ring presence, facial expressions and psychology Dean is pretty good but he's like a Miz tier wrestler when it comes to in ring ability and easily the weakest of the three. Seth is the top and better than his Tyler Black days when it comes to throwing everything at the wall but he's still a little too extra at times
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Apr 15, 2018 06:38
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I know blading used to be very common in America, but how common was it in Mexico and Japan?
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Apr 15, 2018 09:37
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TTBF posted:I know blading used to be very common in America, but how common was it in Mexico and Japan? If Perro Aguayo's disgusting forehead is an indicator, I think it may have been pretty common in Mexico as well. I've also seen a lot of old New Japan and All Japan matches that had blood, and I can only assume it wasn't all hard way.
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Apr 15, 2018 11:21
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TTBF posted:I know blading used to be very common in America, but how common was it in Mexico and Japan? Watch The Great Muta vs. Hiroshi Hase
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Apr 15, 2018 11:46
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TTBF posted:I know blading used to be very common in America, but how common was it in Mexico and Japan? Bloodbaths were and are common in Mexico although not in every company. But some of the bloodiest matches in history were in Mexico. In Japan in depends on the era and company.
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Apr 15, 2018 14:55
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