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quote:To: Berlin_Freeper quote:To: MeganC I mean, who among us hasn't made detailed plans to commit terrorism when they were frustrated? Those men were entrapped!
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Apr 19, 2018 20:00
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Twelve by Pies posted:I mean, who among us hasn't made detailed plans to commit terrorism when they were frustrated? Those men were entrapped! Another tragic case of failing to ask "are you a cop?"
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Apr 19, 2018 20:24
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Twelve by Pies posted:I mean, who among us hasn't made detailed plans to commit terrorism when they were frustrated? Those men were entrapped! How many innocent dungeon masters have found themselves under extra scrutiny after doing research for a campaign set in the modern era?
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Apr 19, 2018 20:30
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 Twelve by Pies posted:I mean, who among us hasn't made detailed plans to commit terrorism when they were frustrated? Those men were entrapped! tbf, the fbi does this alot
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Apr 19, 2018 21:06
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If you’re someone who can be egged on to go from complaining about Muslims to attempting to murder Muslims, you’re probably a violent rear end in a top hat.
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Apr 19, 2018 21:08
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Sir Tonk posted:tbf, the fbi does this alot If an undercover cop/government agent asks you "Do you want to commit a crime?" and you say yes, that isn't entrapment. It also wouldn't be entrapment if they provided you with materials to commit a crime. The reason is because you could always say "I do not want to commit a crime." It's only entrapment if they put you in a position where you feel forced to commit a crime. Like if an undercover cop posing as a drug dealer were to say "Buy some drugs or I'll shoot you." That would be entrapment. chitoryu12 posted:If you’re someone who can be egged on to go from complaining about Muslims to attempting to murder Muslims, you’re probably a violent rear end in a top hat. Also this.
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Apr 20, 2018 00:01
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Twelve by Pies posted:If an undercover cop/government agent asks you "Do you want to commit a crime?" and you say yes, that isn't entrapment. It also wouldn't be entrapment if they provided you with materials to commit a crime. The reason is because you could always say "I do not want to commit a crime." It's only entrapment if they put you in a position where you feel forced to commit a crime. Like if an undercover cop posing as a drug dealer were to say "Buy some drugs or I'll shoot you." That would be entrapment. This why they go to work on Muslims with developmental delays or who are young children when they want to find a “terrorist” to bust.
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Apr 20, 2018 00:13
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Twelve by Pies posted:If an undercover cop/government agent asks you "Do you want to commit a crime?" and you say yes, that isn't entrapment. It also wouldn't be entrapment if they provided you with materials to commit a crime. The reason is because you could always say "I do not want to commit a crime." It's only entrapment if they put you in a position where you feel forced to commit a crime. Like if an undercover cop posing as a drug dealer were to say "Buy some drugs or I'll shoot you." That would be entrapment. This hasn't always been the case
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Apr 20, 2018 00:52
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Twelve by Pies posted:It's only entrapment if they put you in a position where you feel forced to commit a crime. Like if an undercover cop posing as a drug dealer were to say "Buy some drugs or I'll shoot you." That would be entrapment. Not quite. An undercover cop doesn't have to threaten you, all they have to do is offer the drugs, and this would immediately constitute entrapment. There's no clause that says you need to feel pressured or forced. For example: I'm walking down the street and a UC whispers asking me if I want some weed or crack or whathaveyou. Just by offering, that constitutes entrapment. Now, if I had walked up and asked for drugs unprompted, that wouldn't be entrapment.
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Apr 20, 2018 03:25
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Zipperelli. posted:Not quite. An undercover cop doesn't have to threaten you, all they have to do is offer the drugs, and this would immediately constitute entrapment. There's no clause that says you need to feel pressured or forced. Nope. Offering or requesting drugs and someone accepting is literally a textbook example of what they use as the "non entrapment" example in legal books. quote:Mary-Anne Berry is charged with selling illegal drugs to an undercover police officer. Berry testifies that the drugs were for her personal use and that the reason she sold some to the officer is that at a party, the officer falsely said that she wanted some drugs for her mom, who was in a lot of pain. According to Berry, the officer even assured Berry that she wasn't a cop and wasn't setting Berry up. The police officer's actions do not amount to entrapment. Police officers are allowed to tell lies. The officer gave Berry an opportunity to break the law, but the officer did not engage in extreme or overbearing behavior.
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Apr 20, 2018 03:41
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Nope. Ok, maybe they have to do a little more than offer, but if they say something like "I'm not a cop. it's cool. Just buy some drugs my dude" it would be entrapment. Any type of coercion would easily fill the subjective category of entrapment, according to case law I've read. The police don't necessarily have to threaten the person. Any type of coercion will do.
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Apr 20, 2018 03:47
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all cops are bad
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Apr 20, 2018 03:50
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Zipperelli. posted:Ok, maybe they have to do a little more than offer, but if they say something like "I'm not a cop. it's cool. Just buy some drugs my dude" it would be entrapment. Any type of coercion would easily fill the subjective category of entrapment, according to case law I've read. The police don't necessarily have to threaten the person. Any type of coercion will do. That's a myth made up by cops to catch stupid criminals. For fucks sake, it is not entrapment if they lie about being a cop. I mean, why on earth would there be any law that says that just offering drugs makes it entrapment. Why would any court system, let along the American one, give that much leeway to people caught trying to do something that illegal? Fulchrum fucked around with this message at 04:01 on Apr 20, 2018 |
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Apr 20, 2018 03:54
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Zipperelli. posted:Ok, maybe they have to do a little more than offer, but if they say something like "I'm not a cop. it's cool. Just buy some drugs my dude" it would be entrapment. Any type of coercion would easily fill the subjective category of entrapment, according to case law I've read. The police don't necessarily have to threaten the person. Any type of coercion will do. Nope, this is totally wrong. The idea behind entrapment as a defense is that you're saying "look, I would never ever have committed this crime except that the coercion the police placed on me was so intense, I felt I had to." "I'm not a cop, it's cool, buy some drugs" definitely doesn't hit that. The reasonable standard used for entrapment is that whatever coercion applied is something that an 'average person' would feel they have to say yes to. So under the assumption that the average law-abiding citizen would, if offered drugs, decline (which is certainly the assumption the courts make), then what you're describing is very much non-entrapment. To prove entrapment, you have to prove look, any law-abiding person would've done the same in my situation. Which is a very hard bar to hit and why virtually all entrapment claims get rejected. The one I remember off the top of my head that passed muster was a cop demanding a guy in a bar come outside and talk to him, and then busted the guy for having a beer on a public street. Z. Autobahn fucked around with this message at 04:06 on Apr 20, 2018 |
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Apr 20, 2018 04:01
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Why the gently caress are we arguing about this in the Freep thread, of all the loving places
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Apr 20, 2018 04:06
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Icon Of Sin posted:Why the gently caress are we arguing about this in the Freep thread, of all the loving places Be the change you want to see in this thread. Post something crazy.
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Apr 20, 2018 04:07
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Zippereli entrapped me into arguing about it
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Apr 20, 2018 04:07
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Its true. Any reasonable person would be compelled to tell Zipperelli how dumb that is.
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Apr 20, 2018 04:09
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b-b-but, i'm not a cop  I promise.
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Apr 20, 2018 04:30
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Nope. Is anyone else darkly amused that the go-to example of a legally pristine police tactic in a legal textbook describes the cop doing something unambiguously evil.
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Apr 20, 2018 06:13
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Cop: *searching for child murderer* hey dude wanna murder some kids with me? Dude: absolu...wait, are you a cop? Cop: nope Dude: absolutely! VitalSigns posted:Is anyone else darkly amused that the go-to example of a legally pristine police tactic in a legal textbook describes the cop doing something unambiguously evil. It’s a great textbook example because it crushes the idea you can use evil as a proxy for illegal
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Apr 20, 2018 06:25
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Twelve by Pies posted:I mean, who among us hasn't made detailed plans to commit terrorism when they were frustrated? Those men were entrapped! I'm fairly certain those nature refuse bozos were working entirely on their own. Some even bailed when given the chance. I don't think the FBI would egg anyone on just to let them go
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Apr 20, 2018 07:33
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Zipperelli. posted:b-b-but, i'm not a cop Can I buy some drugs plz
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Apr 21, 2018 14:34
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How's Freep reacting to the DNC suit?
Fulchrum fucked around with this message at 20:59 on Apr 21, 2018 |
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Apr 21, 2018 20:56
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Fulchrum posted:How's Freep reacting to the DNC suit? Part outrage, but part delight that "discovery" is going to mean that all the dirt about the Democrats will be exposed. FYI DNC chairman Tom Perez was born in Buffalo, NY. So of course a Freeper wants to see him deported, presumably to somewhere Latin-y and not to Buffalo. quote:I don’t care what his immigration status is, it’s time to “make the world a better place” by deporting Perez’s gringo-hating commie rear end. I think he’s lived off of the American gravy train long enough. He’s the scum of the earth. More Seth Rich conspiracy, Killary Deathlist, etc. quote:Bring on the retired IC guys who testified that the info stolen from the servers HAD to have been taken by flash drive due to the transmission speed.. Wasn't this literally Bush II campaign strategy? quote:The clintons always accuse someone of doing something that the clintons were themselves guilty of. That way if the accused fire back and say that the clintons were actually guilty of that accusation...it looks like a “sour grape” retaliation. The clintons have been doing this for years. They usually do it just before it is obvious that they will be judged as guilty themselves. They probably have something on many democrats and dnc hacks and media...and no one will turn...yet. What a “bligh”t on the American public those two are. I love how indicting people like Trump's former NSA and former campaign manager gets counted as "nothing". quote:No doubt they picked the venue/ Judge very carefully it should get tossed within seconds but with a Rat Judge in a Rat venue who knows. Everyone is saying this is a desperate move because Mueller has nothing well there is a chance one of Mueller’s Rat hit squad has leaked to the DNC that there’s going to be something and this is part of the set up. GOP2018: The Discovery Channel. quote:Counter suit on the way with request for expedited discovery and a change in venue to a D.C. Federal court. We need to get to the bottom of this crap NOW! quote:
quote:“Discovery”. Hehehe, a lot of people have brought up that point.
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Apr 21, 2018 22:04
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I’m actually involved in a suit currently. The discovery period is only about stuff relevant to the case, so unless the DNC were secretly the actual Russians collaborating with Trump, it’s not going to turn up the dirt they want.
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Apr 21, 2018 23:14
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chitoryu12 posted:I’m actually involved in a suit currently. The discovery period is only about stuff relevant to the case, so unless the DNC were secretly the actual Russians collaborating with Trump, it’s not going to turn up the dirt they want. Isn’t this legit one of the conspiracy theories? I can’t keep all the qanon poo poo straight
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Apr 21, 2018 23:28
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hobbesmaster posted:Isn’t this legit one of the conspiracy theories? I can’t keep all the qanon poo poo straight Yeah. I mean even Trump straight out accuses the democrats of colluding with Russia at a few of his recent rallies.
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Apr 22, 2018 00:57
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JUICY HAMBUGAR posted:Yeah. I mean even Trump straight out accuses the democrats of colluding with Russia at a few of his recent rallies. "THEY ENTRAPPED ME!" is probably not the greatest defense.
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Apr 22, 2018 01:04
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In theory entrapment is basically any encouragement from the authorities to commit a crime. I'm not a lawyer but my understanding of it is that if the police encourage somebody to, say, buy drugs from them then that doesn't necessarily mean that that person is the type to buy drugs normally. It might very well be their first time but they've had a lovely day and well gently caress, I'll try a couple Vicodins. Maybe that'll calm me down. A police officer actively trying to sell drugs is literally entrapment. America's legal system of course pretty much always just sides with the police; hence the FBI constantly "catching" terrorists by encouraging somebody to do a thing, giving them the supplies, then arresting them. That's literally entrapment. It doesn't matter how much the person hates whoever they supposedly targeted; if they've made no effort to harm anybody in that way before they've been entrapped. Now, a police officer posing as a drug dealer and never making an offer to sell drugs but getting approached for drugs is an entirely different story. That's somebody actively trying to do something illegal. Same goes for the FBI finding somebody that is actively trying to plot a terrorist attack and offering them help to get in closer; that's not entrapment because the person is actively plotting a crime.
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Apr 22, 2018 01:55
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No, Trumps line is just pure "NO U". See, he didn't collude with Russia, it was actually Hillary who did it, Trump is totally innocent. Sure, there's no evidence in the slightest, it contradicts everything we know, and it makes no sense why they would, but its enough for his supporters to take it as gospel.
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Apr 22, 2018 01:55
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ToxicSlurpee posted:In theory entrapment is basically any encouragement from the authorities to commit a crime. I'm not a lawyer but my understanding of it is that if the police encourage somebody to, say, buy drugs from them then that doesn't necessarily mean that that person is the type to buy drugs normally. It might very well be their first time but they've had a lovely day and well gently caress, I'll try a couple Vicodins. Maybe that'll calm me down. A police officer actively trying to sell drugs is literally entrapment. No. It was already covered up thread. Entrapment can only occur is the defendant is forced into committing a crime against their will through coercive means after initially declining to participate in a crime. - A police officer actively trying to sell drugs. Not entrapment. - A police officer actively trying to sell drugs, a person says, "No, thanks." A police officer says, "C'mon, just do it." The person says, "Okay." Not entrapment. - A police officer actively trying to sell drugs, a person says, "No, thanks." and goes inside. The police officer knocks on his door and tells the person that he needs to sell these drugs to get money to visit his dying mom and won't leave until the person buys them. The person says, "Okay, I'll buy it. Just go away." Entrapment.
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Apr 22, 2018 02:03
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:I don’t care what his immigration status is, it’s time to “make the world a better place” by deporting Perez’s gringo-hating commie rear end. I think he’s lived off of the American gravy train long enough. He’s the scum of the earth. the irony of posting this and being a Trumper
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Apr 22, 2018 02:52
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:No. Those things should be entrapment for the reasons I stated; it's entirely possible that the person would normally not be the kind of person to buy drugs but suddenly decide to. Or they might mishear the police officer or be a total pushover who just does whatever other people say. It should be entrapment. The fact that it isn't considered entrapment by America's legal system is a serious problem.
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Apr 22, 2018 03:17
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Those things should be entrapment for the reasons I stated; it's entirely possible that the person would normally not be the kind of person to buy drugs but suddenly decide to. Or they might mishear the police officer or be a total pushover who just does whatever other people say. It should be entrapment. The fact that it isn't considered entrapment by America's legal system is a serious problem. They aren't considered entrapment by any legal system. If that was the standard, then all undercover investigations would be impossible to prosecute.
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Apr 22, 2018 03:21
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:They aren't considered entrapment by any legal system. That just plain isn't true. Sting operations still exist and that isn't entrapment; that's catching people in the act. Undercover investigations that involve infiltrating already ongoing criminal activity also have literally nothing to do with entrapment. If people are already actively committing a crime then you can't entrap them.
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Apr 22, 2018 03:24
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Those things should be entrapment for the reasons I stated; it's entirely possible that the person would normally not be the kind of person to buy drugs but suddenly decide to. Or they might mishear the police officer or be a total pushover who just does whatever other people say. It should be entrapment. The fact that it isn't considered entrapment by America's legal system is a serious problem. No it shouldn't be entrapment, that makes no sense in any legal tradition in the world. And if anything it's more justified to bust someone who "doesn't normally buy drugs" as opposed to a long-term addict who "normally" buys drugs. ToxicSlurpee posted:That just plain isn't true. Sting operations still exist and that isn't entrapment; that's catching people in the act. Undercover investigations that involve infiltrating already ongoing criminal activity also have literally nothing to do with entrapment. If people are already actively committing a crime then you can't entrap them. A cop going "HEY ANYONE WANT TO BUY SOME CRIME DRUGS" is also a sting operation, dude.
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Apr 22, 2018 03:26
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Did you just say its okay to break the law because of peer pressure? Or if you just decide to do it on a spur of the moment? Also, I would love to know exactly what you could claim you misheard that ends with you handing over money in exchange for a bag of white powder. "I thought he was offering me flour. For $500"
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Apr 22, 2018 03:27
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ToxicSlurpee posted:That just plain isn't true. Sting operations still exist and that isn't entrapment; that's catching people in the act. Undercover investigations that involve infiltrating already ongoing criminal activity also have literally nothing to do with entrapment. If people are already actively committing a crime then you can't entrap them. Being part of an undercover investigation almost always involves facilitation or encouragement of a crime. That is why we have statutes specifically limiting liability in those incidents. Facilitating a crime by asking someone if they want to commit a crime is not entrapment in any legal system. If the police put up an ad for a hit-man and someone calls it to order a hit they were not entrapped into committing a crime. If a cop walked down the street with a billboard advertising their services as a prostitute and someone tried to pick them up, then they were not entrapped. Asking someone if they want to commit a crime or even advertising a crime is not coercive in any way. If just creating the opportunity invalidated a crime, that would be a radical departure from every legal system in the modern world. It is not a "serious problem" of the American legal system. ToxicSlurpee posted:Those things should be entrapment for the reasons I stated; it's entirely possible that the person would normally not be the kind of person to buy drugs but suddenly decide to. Or they might mishear the police officer or be a total pushover who just does whatever other people say. It should be entrapment. The fact that it isn't considered entrapment by America's legal system is a serious problem. "Your honor, I have literally never ordered a hit on my husband until I got caught in that police sting operation." Judge: She's right. Case dismissed. Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 03:36 on Apr 22, 2018 |
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Apr 22, 2018 03:33
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:"Your honor, I have literally never ordered a hit on my husband until I got caught in that police sting operation." "Ma'am, we have here several text messages you sent asking if somebody knew how to have somebody murdered. Several other witnesses also indicate that you had asked how hard it was to have somebody killed. It is clear that you were actively seeking the services of a hitman; it is lucky that you contacted the police officer before a legitimate hitman. You stood to gain millions of dollars on the death of your husband and stated that if he wasn't wealthy you would have divorced him years ago. It seems to the court that you were actively seeking the death of your husband for financial reasons."
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Apr 22, 2018 03:59
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