|
Hieronymous Alloy posted:The real answer you're looking for is 1) expanding the NFA firearms act to encompass all semiautomatic firearms (this would allow government inspectors to come into gun owner's homes to check on the guns) and then 2) mandating that such guns be stored securely in a locked safe at all times with the ammunition stored separately. There are literally like 30 NFA examiners for the whole country and they continually get shuffled off to other divisions when they need an extra person. It's why suppressors take up to a year to get a tax stamp. In order to make that anywhere near effective you'd have to most likely quadruple the size of the ATF at the least and I doubt that'll happen.
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2018 08:26
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 14:34 |
|
|
For a Canadian perspective on mass shootings as we just had another one here. We were unable to stop a mass shooting before it started. We have some strict gun laws. We require -police background check -2 day safety course -mental health questionarre -magazine capacity limited to 5 rounds for semi auto rifles, 10 for pistols -total prohibition on having any restricted firearms in public, they are only allowed to be driven from home to an authorized range (guns like ar15s, all pistols) -total prohibition on CCW or open carry (except in very rare circumstances,like 100 people in the country including the prime ministers personal guards, and some ex-mob snitches that are being targetted for hits) -safe storage laws -home inspections for people with pistols or ARs And we have an incident last night of some whack job shooting up an ice cream/dessert parlour, with some dozen causalities and a little girl in critical condition. Even with some of the most strongest gun laws, likely far greater than the USA will achieve in 20 or 30 years, we still have mass shootings. And even if we did somehow round up all the guns, they just rent a uhaul and kill 10 people that way, its too easy and too common for people to understand how to inflict this kind of sickness and pain on the populace. vincentpricesboner fucked around with this message at 12:48 on Jul 23, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2018 12:40
|
|
|
I wonder how many guns get smuggled into Canada from the US
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2018 13:20
|
|
|
I wonder if zapplez realizes the US has a mass shooting or 2 every week, while how many has Canada had total?
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2018 13:26
|
|
|
Zanzibar Ham posted:I wonder if zapplez realizes the US has a mass shooting or 2 every week, while how many has Canada had total? It would be an interest stat to compare how many mass shootings or simliar terrorist style vehicle attacks we have. You guy have 10 times the population, but I can think of several terrible trajedies we've had in the past few years. Mosque shooter, incel van gun, this one from last night, etc. We both have a big problem right now with innocent people getting killed.
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2018 13:44
|
|
|
People already did those things like a gajillion times, in this very thread. You should know this because at least a number of those instances were at your behest. Maybe you should go to a doctor about your memory problems.
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2018 13:51
|
|
|
Zanzibar Ham posted:People already did those things like a gajillion times, in this very thread. You should know this because at least a number of those instances were at your behest. Maybe you should go to a doctor about your memory problems. According to this site Canada and the USA have nearly identically amount of terrorist casualties per capita. I cant find any info that compares the amount of untargetted mass shootings. Canada has had around 4 mass shootings in past 4 years. And that doesnt include other similiar attacks that were for the same purpose of inciting fear/being remember like the CFL van attack or the incel van attack. And we are 10th of your population. So lets say we have 10 serious shootings a year. How does that compare to you guys? We used to only have 2 or 3 a decade. What changed to make it more common for people to act this way? It wasn't weaker gun laws, our guns laws only got stronger. vincentpricesboner fucked around with this message at 14:16 on Jul 23, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2018 14:10
|
|
|
Party Plane Jones posted:There are literally like 30 NFA examiners for the whole country and they continually get shuffled off to other divisions when they need an extra person. It's why suppressors take up to a year to get a tax stamp. That's a good thing.
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2018 15:13
|
|
|
Party Plane Jones posted:It's why suppressors take up to a year to get a tax stamp. oh no
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2018 17:32
|
|
|
Why are you so afraid of suppressors in the first place? In Europe they are very easy to get hold of legally, even in gun restrictive countries such as the UK and Sweden. All they do is reduce the noise to a level that doesn't make you deaf but you'd still want hearing protection when you shoot. They are excellent at reducing noise pollution which is a major hassle with gun ranges in proximity to populated areas.
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2018 18:37
|
|
|
I see it as something that could be traded for. But I suspect any legislation that increases access to them will wind up weakening what gun control there is.
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2018 18:58
|
|
|
Noshtane posted:Why are you so afraid of suppressors in the first place? In Europe they are very easy to get hold of legally, even in gun restrictive countries such as the UK and Sweden. Protip: it's even quieter to not fire off guns at random.
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2018 19:16
|
|
|
zapplez posted:For a Canadian perspective on mass shootings as we just had another one here. We were unable to stop a mass shooting before it started. We have some strict gun laws. We require The point of gun control isn't to eliminate all violence, or even to eliminate all mass shootings. It's to minimize them. In the US a mass shooting like that happens on average several times per week How many mass uhaul killings does canada see?
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2018 20:47
|
|
|
zapplez posted:According to this site Canada and the USA have nearly identically amount of terrorist casualties per capita. I cant find any info that compares the amount of untargetted mass shootings. In 2017 the US had about one mass shooting per day. So that's a per capita ratio of about 30:1, using your numbers
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2018 20:53
|
|
|
Noshtane posted:Why are you so afraid of suppressors in the first place? In Europe they are very easy to get hold of legally, even in gun restrictive countries such as the UK and Sweden. I personally give approximately the same amount of fucks as I do about white whine that it's so hard to find a yacht repairman these days. I don't have any particular desire to make it harder to get, but if it is hard to get I can't find it in myself to give a poo poo about the travails of someone so sheltered that these are the kind of problems they have. And boy do they not ever shut up about their stupid hobbies.
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2018 22:10
|
|
|
https://globalnews.ca/news/4348575/toronto-gunman-mental-health-family/?utm_source=NewsletterNational&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=2018 Sadly it seems we always hear after the fact how the shooters had severe mental health problems. I know virtually all of the last five or so mass shooters in Canada had issues like this.
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2018 23:15
|
|
|
VitalSigns posted:I personally give approximately the same amount of fucks as I do about white whine that it's so hard to find a yacht repairman these days. Also, any effort spent trying to get rid of suppressors is better spent trying to regulate hand guns as they do the majority of the killing from the looks of it. Then again, the vast majority of the violence caused with hand guns is directed at poor and minorities especially so why spend effort on hand guns when your fragile white feelings are more offended by scary suppressors and .50 rifles or whatever the latest Hollywood movie scared you with. fishmech posted:Protip: it's even quieter to not fire off guns at random.
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2018 23:43
|
|
|
Noshtane posted:I don't think the gunchat is the right place for your if you don't want to hear whine about guns. If the gun range is producing too much noise, the solution is to shut it down.
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2018 23:56
|
|
|
The real answer is something like 5x the per capita gun death rate in the US vs. Canada so lol at arguing that Canadian gun control failed overall.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2018 00:06
|
|
|
fishmech posted:If the gun range is producing too much noise, the solution is to shut it down. Or you allow gun owners to decorate their range toy with accessories that in addition to reducing noise also make the gun unwieldy and more inaccurate. There is no real downside to allowing suppressors to be bought by the people your society deem fit to own weapons. That Americans are notoriously lovely at deciding who should have a gun(or suppressor) or not is another question.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2018 00:13
|
|
|
Noshtane posted:Or you allow gun owners to decorate their range toy with accessories that in addition to reducing noise also make the gun unwieldy and more inaccurate. There is no real downside to allowing suppressors to be bought by the people your society deem fit to own weapons. That Americans are notoriously lovely at deciding who should have a gun(or suppressor) or not is another question. No, you shut the range down. Because guns aren't necessary.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2018 00:25
|
|
|
fishmech posted:No, you shut the range down. Because guns aren't necessary. For the gun hobby to survive, they are.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2018 00:53
|
|
|
Noshtane posted:For the gun hobby to survive, they are. u the point
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2018 01:00
|
|
|
Noshtane posted:For the gun hobby to survive, they are. Why would anyone sane want that? You have a ton of empty space in your country, just drive up to the middle of nowhere.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2018 01:05
|
|
|
sean10mm posted:The real answer is something like 5x the per capita gun death rate in the US vs. Canada so lol at arguing that Canadian gun control failed overall. I'm not saying that at all. I'm pondering why our rate of mass shootings / mass casualty by cars incidents is increasing dramatically. Is it more disenfranchised people? More people reading ISIS pdf files? More depressed/vulnerable people ? More media presenting the shooter as a historical character of importance? It could be similar issues that are increasing the USA gun violence, not just number of guns made from the factory every year.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2018 01:06
|
|
|
Noshtane posted:I don't think the gunchat is the right place for your if you don't want to hear whine about guns. Getting rid of suppressors requires zero effort in America, they're already as strictly regulated as automatic weapons and have been since the 30s. I couldn't care less if they're banned or not though it has zero influence on how I vote and I'm not interested in the whining of silly people who have nothing better to fret about than toys. I'm totally cool with regulating handguns tho, too bad the party of affluent and rich-rear end whites won't allow it!
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2018 01:10
|
|
|
zapplez posted:For a Canadian perspective on mass shootings as we just had another one here. We were unable to stop a mass shooting before it started. We have some strict gun laws. We require Oh is this the part of the thread where we forget the evidence gun control works has been posted many times, just like how we forget what the USSR's gun laws were? OK I guess we're doing this again. VitalSigns posted:
See you in a month when you forget again!
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2018 01:18
|
|
.
|
zapplez posted:According to this site Canada and the USA have nearly identically amount of terrorist casualties per capita. I cant find any info that compares the amount of untargetted mass shootings. Did you mean to link something here? If so you forgot it. As far as comparisons I love that you're shooting from the hip assuming Canada has similar or worse rates. Well it doesn't not even close. For gun homicides the US has 7x as many per capita. As far as mass shootings go the US has 1 every week; Canada has one every two years. That is about 12x as many per capita. It is cool you want to think about the rate of change in these things for your home country but you really should be careful in assuming it is comparable. Like you seem to be arguing that gun control in Canada is ineffective because you think the rates are comparable but a cursory glance at the data shows that is simply not true.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2018 01:44
|
|
|
I know that the USA has an insane gun violence problem, especially compared to a country with strict gun control like Canada. My point was purely, I wonder what is causing the recent rise in mass shootings in Canada. Is it the same cultural reasons that mass shootings are on the rise in the USA too?
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2018 01:46
|
|
|
zapplez posted:I know that the USA has an insane gun violence problem, especially compared to a country with strict gun control like Canada. Point of order: has there actually been a rise in mass shootings in Canada? like I would love to see the fifty year data on mass shootings in Canada
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2018 01:49
|
|
|
stone cold posted:Point of order: has there actually been a rise in mass shootings in Canada? There has been five mass casualty incidents.(these includes mass shootings or other forms of mass casualty attacks (cars,axes, etc) in the past 2 years in Canada. From 2012-2014 there was 5 as well. From 1961-2011 there was only 26 . So for prior to 2011 we average just over one attack every two years. Since 2016 we have been getting 2 or 3 a year. Thats a 200-300% increase.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2018 02:50
|
|
|
There is this thing in statistics called a confidence band, wherein certain "trends" or "analytical conclusions" based on incredibly small sample sizes are paired with a number that shows the likelihood the conclusion (parameter) is (not) a result of statistical noise. But gently caress that, we got two data points this line goes to infinity baby.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2018 04:52
|
|
|
stone cold posted:Point of order: has there actually been a rise in mass shootings in Canada? you see when include these other things that aren't mass shootings... "cultural reasons" lol
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2018 05:21
|
|
|
zapplez posted:I'm not saying that at all. I'm pondering why our rate of mass shootings / mass casualty by cars incidents is increasing dramatically. Is it more disenfranchised people? More people reading ISIS pdf files? More depressed/vulnerable people ? More media presenting the shooter as a historical character of importance? While I agree with those saying your sample is too small to actually draw the conclusion that these events are increasing in frequency in Canada, it would not be surprising if it was true. This is because we have pretty good evidence these events are becoming more frequent in the United States, and also deadlier. Obviously there are going to be multiple variables at play. Likely these events are to some degree "contagious." The same way suicide frequency increases immediately after a celebrity kills there self, seeing and hearing about these events may make people more likely to commit them. Some authors have attributed a part of the increase to the increasing availability of more powerful weapons. That at least, is the opinion of The editorial board of the New England Journal of Medicine. In this editorial, they provide two academic sources for the claim that making it more difficult to obtain semiautomatic weapons should reduce deaths from mass shootings. I have not read them but if you are curious they are linked from the article. I'm not sure how semiautomatic weapons are regulated in Canada but I'm pretty sure guns like the AR variants are increasingly common in the United States. People in both countries are also just wealthier than they were 30 years ago, which should make it easier for people planning attacks to obtain the necessary equipment.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2018 05:30
|
|
|
The madness is seeping out of America, is what’s happening. An economic and cultural embargo ought to be imposed on the failed nation. Tbf they also probably need UN stwardship.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2018 06:11
|
|
|
Squalid posted:Obviously there are going to be multiple variables at play. Likely these events are to some degree "contagious." The same way suicide frequency increases immediately after a celebrity kills there self, seeing and hearing about these events may make people more likely to commit them.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2018 06:26
|
|
|
Elizabethan Error posted:the important variable is "access to weapons" I don't really like this attitude because its clear there are multiple causes to these problems, and we should try and address all of them. However I frustrated by a lot of the debate around gun safety because many people tend to get distracted and forget the real goal. Banning guns is not a goal in-and of itself. The goal is to reduce homicide, suicide, and accidents/injuries. I see it first and for most as a healthcare issue. Sometimes I get the idea there are people who want to punish gun-owners. It's just absurd to me, the point of gun safety regulation is to help them! Gun owners are after all the primary victims of gun-deaths and injuries. When you think about the wider system I think it clarifies the problem. It's why its frustrating to see the discourse focused on mass-shootings, which represent a very small proportion of homicides. They are very difficult to predict. In contrast, it's a lot easier to identify domestic abusers who are at risk of killing or injuring spouses, and it would be much more productive to focus energy on keeping guns out of these peoples hands. Restrictions on firearm possession for known abusers is the kind of common sense policy I like to see activists pushing.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2018 06:53
|
|
|
I'd gladly trade easier access to suppressors for a ban on bump stocks and mandatory stamping of lower receivers and the like.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2018 08:41
|
|
|
fishmech posted:Why would anyone sane want that? You have a ton of empty space in your country, just drive up to the middle of nowhere. Allemansrätten does not and should not allow for bringing guns to and shooting at someone else's property, nor is it a good practice to go into the wild and blast away. You got to share the wilderness with other people and no matter how unlikely it is that someone is behind your intended target, it's not a risk you are allowed to take. As such, a proper public gun range with backstops and safe firing lanes are to prefer, it fosters a sane gun culture, accessible to everyone and more eco friendly as lead can be collected and recycled. Allowing suppressor reduces noise pollution from these gun ranges so they should not be regulated any more than the firearms they are fitted on. Noshtane fucked around with this message at 12:37 on Jul 24, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2018 11:49
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 14:34 |
|
|
zapplez posted:I'm not saying that at all. I'm pondering why our rate of mass shootings / mass casualty by cars incidents is increasing dramatically. Is it more disenfranchised people? More people reading ISIS pdf files? More depressed/vulnerable people ? More media presenting the shooter as a historical character of importance? Mass casualty violence has become a normalized form of protest.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2018 12:01
|
|