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i recently finished working on a hardware project that was so many years delayed that we were paying $45 for an 800mhz soc with 256mb of ram
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Jul 25, 2018 15:18
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Sweeper posted:don’t people embed lua into applications a lot? I think the wow ui is all lua 1 indexing is disgusting and wrong
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Jul 25, 2018 15:27
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not really
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Jul 25, 2018 15:31
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i'm bad with numbers and thinking about ranges and inclusiveness and that kind of thing so i just always write tests around code that is sensitive to errors like that because my brain is gonna gently caress it up as a result it's not really an issue for me and i dont care or i use HOFs over iterators like the good lord intended. the real horror is forcing users to manually iterate over things like it's the 80s. imo HLLs/scripting languages are loving up if your users have to think about array indexing very muchl DONT THREAD ON ME fucked around with this message at 15:46 on Jul 25, 2018 |
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Jul 25, 2018 15:42
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yea iteration is righteous
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Jul 25, 2018 15:51
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ratbert90 posted:If your budget is > 15$ per board, there's no excuse to not run embedded Linux these days. That price point get's you 1Ghz+, 512Mb of ram, and 8GB of eMMC. It's more like >15$ per SoC, plus there's the power consumption too, along with PSU requirements. And maybe even more importantly the slower SoCs tend to have a lot more integrated peripherals like SPI, UART, I2C, S-D ADCs, high-speed GPIO, tight clocks etc. Actually there's a lot of reasons. What you commonly see (and the company I work at uses) is one beefier chip for "application logic" with high-speed communication buses to subsidiary SoCs taking care of the more tightly coupled things. Private Speech fucked around with this message at 16:00 on Jul 25, 2018 |
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Jul 25, 2018 15:57
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there are many good reasons not to run embedded Linux and random languages. like if you're doing literally anything realtime
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Jul 25, 2018 15:59
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ratbert90 posted:If your budget is > 15$ per board, there's no excuse to not run embedded Linux these days. That price point get's you 1Ghz+, 512Mb of ram, and 8GB of eMMC. i worked for a manufacturer of scientific instruments selling at €50k who didn't run embedded linux, but had en entire division building and programming embedded boards. it was madness
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Jul 25, 2018 16:16
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Bloody posted:there are many good reasons not to run embedded Linux and random languages. like if you're doing literally anything realtime *kworkers interrupts you* *building explodes* Linux
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Jul 25, 2018 18:39
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Maximum Leader posted:1 indexing is disgusting and wrong it’s even better in embedded lua when the bits implemented in c index from 0 but anything implemented in lua indexes from 1, so you constantly have to guess which any given call will expect. yes I’m looking at you wireshark another thing I enjoy in lua is how there’s no way to get the size of a table - the fundamental data type of the language - other than iterating over it and incrementing a variable as you go it is not a wonderful language
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Jul 25, 2018 19:17
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isn't #table how you get the size of a table in lua? it's dumb but you can do it.
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Jul 25, 2018 19:23
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Suspicious Dish posted:isn't #table how you get the size of a table in lua? it's dumb but you can do it. no, that’s a trap. it will ignore any keys that aren’t numbers.
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Jul 25, 2018 19:26
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oh, huh. apparently the # operator is flat out undefined for non-sequences. fun.
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Jul 25, 2018 19:27
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lua's community is way too non-critical of the language, which is annoying
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Jul 25, 2018 20:46
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whaaaa a programming language that fits in a thimble cuts some semantic corners??
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Jul 25, 2018 22:25
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Toady posted:lua's community is way too non-critical of the language, which is annoying case in point Gazpacho posted:whaaaa a programming language that fits in a thimble cuts some semantic corners??
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Jul 25, 2018 22:38
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i don't use lua, that's a language for programming internet swords right?
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Jul 25, 2018 22:45
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one of lua's developers responded to criticism of silent nil from non-existent keys by essentially shrugging their shoulders and saying they were used to it
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Jul 25, 2018 22:55
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just wasted two days building a single-use tool in rust 
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Jul 25, 2018 23:14
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yeah, there's no excuse not to ship every electronic product with a massively overspecced SoC running a heaped-together pile of off-the-shelf software mostly written by volunteers and never audited by anyone ever on an unrelated note, my light bulbs are turning themselves on and off, my shower head seems to be transmitting nude photos of me to a cryptic chinese website, and my front door refuses to unlock unless i feed it bitcoins
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Jul 25, 2018 23:19
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Internet Janitor posted:yeah, there's no excuse not to ship every electronic product with a massively overspecced SoC running a heaped-together pile of off-the-shelf software mostly written by volunteers and never audited by anyone ever and this way you can program the UI in electron and the embedded web server in node he’ll yeah
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Jul 25, 2018 23:36
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Internet Janitor posted:yeah, there's no excuse not to ship every electronic product with a massively overspecced SoC running a heaped-together pile of off-the-shelf software mostly written by volunteers and never audited by anyone ever lmbo look at this poo poo.
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Jul 25, 2018 23:55
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Internet Janitor posted:my shower head seems to be transmitting nude photos of me to a cryptic chinese website
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Jul 25, 2018 23:58
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no really, thinking you need a full-blown OS just to manage a wifi stack is ridiculous
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Jul 26, 2018 00:00
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JawnV6 posted:no really, thinking you need a full-blown OS just to manage a wifi stack is ridiculous I deal primarily with larger scale projects. sorry I didn’t want to create my own networking stack, sip library, media libraries, crypto libraries, etc etc.
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Jul 26, 2018 00:03
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ratbert90 posted:I deal primarily with larger scale projects. thats what we said then surprise Internet Janitor posted:yeah, there's no excuse not to ship every electronic product with a massively overspecced SoC running a heaped-together pile of off-the-shelf software mostly written by volunteers and never audited by anyone ever turned out to be such an intractably large mess that creating our own everything was better
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Jul 26, 2018 00:05
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Bloody posted:thats what we said then surprise How is your WiFi stack better? Also how was it a mess?
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Jul 26, 2018 00:06
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ratbert isn’t really a shades of grey or opinions are different from facts type of person so this is not a shock
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Jul 26, 2018 00:06
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Peeny Cheez posted:whoa, I wonder what the website did to piss off the hackers True story, the primary library implementation of ModBus (a fairly common protocol) for Linux has for a long time had a hilarious bug - the translation of which ip address to listen to (from string to binary form) silently failed due to a bug, and it defaulted to 0.0.0.0. Meaning that a not-insignificant portion of IoT devices were wide open to whatever the firewall would allow. The protocol is used for controlling things which include boilers and heavy-duty electrical equipment. This was fixed in the Git version for quite a while, but nobody bothered updating the "stable" version in the repository. And given how often IoT devices are updated, well, yeah. Private Speech fucked around with this message at 00:21 on Jul 26, 2018 |
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Jul 26, 2018 00:07
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There was a time at one point where you paid for software and you had a support contract and your embedded system was based on VxWorks or QNX and if the vendor hosed poo poo up you had some form of retaliation. Linux and the open-source community has killed that market, replacing a lot of operating system R&D funding with the "lmbo ship it" hacker mentality. Security audits and in-depth architecture design review? What are those In anybody surprised that underfunded, mission-critical software like bash, Linux, and OpenSSL have giant holes in them, and the general response from the teams about improving their security and fixing their design is a resounding meh? Or, in Linux's case, a giant "How did they noty die as babies, considering that they were likely too stupid to find a tit to suck on?" Linux is a crowdsourced mess from a security perspective, talented people like Matthew Garret are being harassed for suggesting to improve things.
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Jul 26, 2018 00:42
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ratbert90 posted:I deal primarily with larger scale projects. the current low-end IoT shitshow would largely be avoided if folks could wire up a GPIO to wifi without punting on doing anything and grabbing a linux. there's no reason a lightbulb needs it, no reason a sensor platform needs a file system. i specifically did not mention video applications, christ how disingenuous
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Jul 26, 2018 00:59
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JawnV6 posted:yeah i'm not uh, discounting that larger projects exist? you can use a linux without it necessarily being a good idea for smaller scale projects I don't see how removing Linux is going to improve the security situation of a non updated unsupported device the correct situation is to have liability for hacking shift to the store and manufacturers jointly and severably so that you end up getting updates or the companies go under
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Jul 26, 2018 01:41
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Malcolm XML posted:I don't see how removing Linux is going to improve the security situation of a non updated unsupported device smaller attack surface less stuff is less stuff Malcolm XML posted:the correct situation is to have liability for hacking shift to the store and manufacturers jointly and severably so that you end up getting updates or the companies go under good luck with that, bro
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Jul 26, 2018 02:07
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Private Speech posted:True story, the primary library implementation of ModBus (a fairly common protocol) for Linux has for a long time had a hilarious bug - the translation of which ip address to listen to (from string to binary form) silently failed due to a bug, and it defaulted to 0.0.0.0. Meaning that a not-insignificant portion of IoT devices were wide open to whatever the firewall would allow. The protocol is used for controlling things which include boilers and heavy-duty electrical equipment. Notorious b.s.d. posted:smaller attack surface Ellie Crabcakes fucked around with this message at 02:12 on Jul 26, 2018 |
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Jul 26, 2018 02:10
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Suspicious Dish posted:There was a time at one point where you paid for software and you had a support contract and your embedded system was based on VxWorks or QNX and if the vendor hosed poo poo up you had some form of retaliation. Linux and the open-source community has killed that market, replacing a lot of operating system R&D funding with the "lmbo ship it" hacker mentality. Security audits and in-depth architecture design review? What are those are you implying that those vendor-supported embedded systems were not security disasters, because i’m pretty sure they all just mostly died before anyone really paid attention
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Jul 26, 2018 02:14
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rjmccall posted:are you implying that those vendor-supported embedded systems were not security disasters Yes.
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Jul 26, 2018 02:18
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lol there's constant new attacks against components that have kept to that style (industrial automation and plcs and honestly still occasionally qnx)
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Jul 26, 2018 02:26
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you know that security code audits are like pure theater right basically the only useful thing they ever do is to try to run a static analysis tool
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Jul 26, 2018 02:32
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Maximum Leader posted:1 indexing is disgusting and wrong just fork your Lua to use 0 indexing what could go wrong
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Jul 26, 2018 02:44
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Yeah well fork your Lua too buddy
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Jul 26, 2018 03:06
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