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Heaven Will Be Mine,, the new mecha visual novel on steam, asks the question what if Kamille and Four was the same person and wanted to gently caress Char but they are lesbians. But it also does some stuff with cyber-newtypes and the mecha as a body and etc. Anyway its weird how much the game like, kinda capture how I felt about a lot of the ideas in UC Gundam as a trans person. e: Some of the writing is kinda bad and I think comes off as a bit pretentious? There is a question mark there because I can't think of a better word than pretentious but there is definitely a better word to describe it. Honestly its probably not for a lot of people in this thread but if you want a game that is using Gundam ideas to talk about messy 20 something year old feelings and gay things its worth a pick up I guess. Snooze Cruise fucked around with this message at 17:08 on Jul 30, 2018 |
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Jul 30, 2018 16:53
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DKD posted:A young soldier rushes into a poorly-considered relationship with a woman he barely knows with the justification that he is saving her by replacing her hardships and misery with domestic bliss? The only way it could be more realistic is if she were a stripper instead of a runaway princess. I didn't say it was unrealistic I said Riddhe is a weirdo.
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Jul 30, 2018 17:09
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drrockso20 posted:In The Origin they have Char's excuse for wearing a mask(and sunglasses during training and while off duty) is that he claims to have a medical condition requiring his eyes be covered "No, I totally can't show my full face at any time because of a medical condition and must wear this mask at all times" is more suspicious than any blonde haired, blue eyed youth could possibly be. Arcsquad12 posted:Regardless of whether Mars Zeon becomes canon or not, the future going forward from Unicorn has shown that Mineva's speech didn't work. Narrative is working off the idea that the federation covered everything up but the rogue Phenex threatens to blow everything open again. I really hope that Narrative doesn't devolve into another Zeon conflict, but Im not ruling out that possibility. And even besides that, the UC is only a few decades off from the Crossbone Vanguard conflict, so spacenoids and earthers really don't come to much of an accord. Well it's not like Banagher and Mineva wanted universal peace forever and a cessation of all martial conflict for any reason; they just wanted people to stop using Zeon as a rallying cry because it tended to result in war crimes and no real change while dividing the sides more and more for no gain. I'd hope Narrative doesn't fall back on Zeon, but yea, I can totally see them doing it too. Arcsquad12 posted:Incidentally this is also why I think they'll keep Hathaway's execution in the adaptation. We're living in a much more cynical time now than when Unicorn came out and, intentionally or not, the most recent Gundam shows have been much bleaker wrt the future. I was going to say that I don't think Gundam has become close to that cynical yet, but then I realized that Iron Blood Orphans is the most recent finished show and it's about as cynical so that's not really a good argument. I still don't think they'll keep it in, since again, Bright is so beloved and I doubt even Tomino likes that ending anymore but it's based more on a gut feeling than any kind of actual argument in reality. That, and I just don't like the ending. It doesn't sit right with me; for Bright or for Hathaway. Then again, I never hated him and his killing of Chan. Snooze Cruise posted:Heaven Will Be Mine,, the new mecha visual novel on steam, asks the question what if Kamille and Four was the same person and wanted to gently caress Char but they are lesbians. I'm honestly just having trouble picturing Kamille and Four as one character because their relationship is so central to at least Four as a character. I'm presuming it just means a more artificially enhanced Kamille with more explicit mental issues rather than just the anger issues he harbored early in the show but it's still not really gel'ing for me.
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Jul 30, 2018 17:45
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tsob posted:I'm honestly just having trouble picturing Kamille and Four as one character because their relationship is so central to at least Four as a character. I'm presuming it just means a more artificially enhanced Kamille with more explicit mental issues rather than just the anger issues he harbored early in the show but it's still not really gel'ing for me. The character is an emotional messy person and starts in a very similar position to Kamille and acts a bit like him sometimes. But is also basically the game's version of a cyber newtype and while the veneer is female Kamille a lot of the character itself seems to be a lot of commentary on Four. But I mean, they are ultimately their own character too. I mean the "char" character doesn't end up much like Char either despite the game explicitly referencing "I never betrayed anyone."
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Jul 30, 2018 17:57
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tsob posted:"No, I totally can't show my full face at any time because of a medical condition and must wear this mask at all times" is more suspicious than any blonde haired, blue eyed youth could possibly be. In a world where frequent space disasters seem to gently caress people up on countless occasions (regular flying is the safest way to travel, but even inter colony travel is super dangerous, we get no less than 3 or 4 flights destroyed during Origin) the idea that a dude got his eyes damaged isn't that weird to me. It sounds like it might even be a semi regular affliction given the level of acceptance everyone gives it. The fact that he is the spitting image of the guy he replaces also makes his cover story a lot more acceptable. Char gets super lucky, but I'm sure he chocked that up to fate and his destiny newtype bullshit.
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Jul 30, 2018 18:53
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He probably got space blindness looking directly at the explosion that killed "casval" so he needed space goggles.
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Jul 30, 2018 19:15
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In real life, astronauts have reported seeing cosmic rays even with their eyes closed, so a new kind of turbo space glaucoma could definitely be a good excuse for the sunglasses at night routine.
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Jul 30, 2018 20:18
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Now that Rebuild of Evangelion is actually getting it's final episode I kinda want to see the same treatment done to a Gundam show. Alternate universe stuff with slight changes to original plot to make things interesting and compress that into a series of confusing movies. What I'm saying is redo Wing but this time Heero succesfully suicides at the beginning and things continue without him.
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Jul 30, 2018 20:34
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tsob posted:
IBO is quite cynical, but it also has an ending where the corrupt system is replaced by a better one, most of the surviving heroes are able to move into a life without war, and where Mikazuki's son can grow up in peace raised by his moms. Hell, the character being set up as the next leader of Gjallarhorn is one of the least morally compromised people in the series. That's quite a contrast to Hathaway's Flash's ending.
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Jul 30, 2018 21:11
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Can't Char just wear some drat colored contacts? Pro wrestlers use 'em, I can't imagine anything about MS piloting would require more physical activity than that. Oh no, when I threw that cracker grenade my contact fell out, Dozle will bust me for sure!PS1 Hagrid posted:Now that Rebuild of Evangelion is actually getting it's final episode I kinda want to see the same treatment done to a Gundam show. Alternate universe stuff with slight changes to original plot to make things interesting and compress that into a series of confusing movies. I've been thinking about what the Americanized, Hollywoodized MSG will look like. I think I like the idea of Lalah being an old friend of Amuro's, not entirely unlike Kira & Athrun. Maybe we can rejigger the order of events to parallel her story with Garma's? That's some spicy thinking.
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Jul 30, 2018 22:45
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Contacts seem like a bad idea when your suits are accelerating to ridiculous speeds and your eyeballs are squished into the back of your head. sure they're flexible but can you imagine if one slipped off while zooming around?
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Jul 30, 2018 22:51
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PS1 Hagrid posted:Now that Rebuild of Evangelion is actually getting it's final episode I kinda want to see the same treatment done to a Gundam show. Alternate universe stuff with slight changes to original plot to make things interesting and compress that into a series of confusing movies. Re-do Wing with Quatre as the big crazy end boss going around blowing up colonies in Wing Zero and loosing more of his mind. Zechs otoh can die in his giant battle against OZ. Oh, or have Heero actually kill the people he says he'll kill. Tulalip Tulips fucked around with this message at 23:09 on Jul 30, 2018 |
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Jul 30, 2018 22:53
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Personally I think we should redo 0079, but perhaps replacing Newtypes with a focus on, Idk, gene editing maybe to make the story relevant for a contemporary audience.
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Jul 30, 2018 22:55
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Raxivace posted:Personally I think we should redo 0079, but perhaps replacing Newtypes with a focus on, Idk, gene editing maybe to make the story relevant for a contemporary audience. Those character designs are a bit old-fashioned, too. Luckily, I know a guy.
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Jul 31, 2018 00:00
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Darth Walrus posted:Those character designs are a bit old-fashioned, too. Luckily, I know a guy. I don't know. I mean, I think it's not 0079 without Newtypes. Can we keep the genetic engineering angle, but add Newtypes? And also something else that's basically Newtypes but called something different?
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Jul 31, 2018 00:07
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Raxivace posted:Personally I think we should redo 0079, but perhaps replacing Newtypes with a focus on, Idk, gene editing maybe to make the story relevant for a contemporary audience. So umm SEED then? Is that what you really want? OG SEED is alright, but still... We all know we're getting a OYW adaptation so they might as well trim some fat on it. I would honestly skip most of the White Bases adventures on earth, or do them really quickly so you can get to stuff like the Big Zam and Lalah and A Bao A Qu. Thats the kind of thing that will play well in a hollywood film. Not mopey Amuro in the desert.
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Jul 31, 2018 00:38
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The Notorious ZSB posted:So umm SEED then? Is that what you really want? OG SEED is alright, but still... 
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Jul 31, 2018 00:39
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PS1 Hagrid posted:What I'm saying is redo Wing but this time Heero succesfully suicides at the beginning and things continue without him. Wing? Psshhh...re-do 0079 with super Newtype Kai as the main character. Arcsquad12 posted:Contacts seem like a bad idea when your suits are accelerating to ridiculous speeds and your eyeballs are squished into the back of your head. sure they're flexible but can you imagine if one slipped off while zooming around? He doesn't need them for corrective vision, so if they slip it doesn't matter. It's not like any Zabi is going to be personally monitoring Char's face using internal monitors inside his mechs during fights. Just keep some spare contacts in his pocket and pop 'em in before he gets out of the cockpit if the ones he's wearing slip out.
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Jul 31, 2018 00:39
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Tulalip Tulips posted:Oh, or have Heero actually kill the people he says he'll kill. Nah, when he wants people dead he just kills them (or the diplomats he thinks are them).
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Jul 31, 2018 01:39
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I like char's mask, because the concepts of masks is pretty central to chat's character, the guy who is almost never presenting his true self in any instance
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Jul 31, 2018 02:59
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Depending on how the Legendary Pictures Gundam film decides to present itself I'm curious how they will deal with Char's mask. Will they go all in on the 80s camp and keep it for the same reasons nobody questions why Darth Vader walks around like a doofus or will they go the Origin route and give it an in-universe explanation to keep things more grounded instead of just symbolism.
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Jul 31, 2018 03:07
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ninjewtsu posted:I like char's mask, because the concepts of masks is pretty central to chat's character, the guy who is almost never presenting his true self in any instance He only wears a literal mask in 0079, and that's the entry that he's least obfuscating of his true identity really. He's what he appears to be in 0079 with no hidden depths; which is part of what distresses Sayla so much about him. Zeta and Char's Counterattack explore his character in more depth, but 0079 doesn't.
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Jul 31, 2018 03:11
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tsob posted:He only wears a literal mask in 0079, and that's the entry that he's least obfuscating of his true identity really. He's what he appears to be in 0079 with no hidden depths; which is part of what distresses Sayla so much about him. Zeta and Char's Counterattack explore his character in more depth, but 0079 doesn't. I wouldn't say that. Char in 0079 is pretending to be a far more rational individual than he actually is. He's playing the part of a cocky selfsure soldier (and to some degree he is that) but he's playing the *part* and it's something that fools most people. The only person who really gets past Char to see the hosed up guy behind is Lalah and that's part of why she's so important to Char.
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Jul 31, 2018 03:20
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Char successfully dupes garma into thinking he's a good, lifelong friend, while the real casval craves garma's death and, at the first opportunity where he wouldnt get accused of treason for it, kills garma and calls him up to laugh in his face in his dying moments He also dupes kycellia into thinking that he doesn't care about killing the zabis, or at the very least isn't interested in killing her His whole deal is he's fighting for zeon, when his true goal is assassinating zeon's upper leadership Like sure, his true personality isn't super different from char's, but come on. He's still lying out his rear end all the time, because his true goals don't match up with the "goals" of his persona
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Jul 31, 2018 03:33
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Wasn't there a tomino interview not too long ago in this thread where tomino said "char was originally gonna be a pretty generic rival, but then my stupid character designer gave him a mask and then I was forced to make him a compelling character based off hiding his identity"
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Jul 31, 2018 03:36
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ImpAtom posted:The only person who really gets past Char to see the hosed up guy behind is Lalah and that's part of why she's so important to Char. Does she? After Char fights Amuro at Texas and Char returns to his Zanzibar Lalah has to ask him about what happened, and he not only refuses to tell her but says that his life has had it's share of tragedies and not to ask about them. Not to mention that when Char, Lalah and Dr. Flanagan are travelling through the colony Lalah suddenly starts giggling out of nowhere when she feels Amuro and then acts like Char has done something new by "touching" her mind. Char was more forthright with Lalah, but I don't think Lalah ever had the same connection with Char as she had with Amuro and I don't think she ever truly saw all of Char or understood him on some kind of fundamental level like she did with Amuro. I'd have thought the fact that Amuro shared such an innate and personal connection with Lalah that Char himself never could (or at least, never did) despite seemingly being closer to her was part of what made Char so bitter about their relationship. ninjewtsu posted:Like sure, his true personality isn't super different from char's, but come on. He's still lying out his rear end all the time, because his true goals don't match up with the "goals" of his persona Like you said, his actual personality as far as it's presented in 0079 is so similar to his public persona as to be indistinguisable. I wouldn't say simply lying at times counts as a mask and that's all he's doing in 0079; lying to the various Zabi members. In Zeta, Char publicly presents as Quattro and seems to want to hide behind that identity while rarely accepting the name of Char or Casval; which invites much more speculation of who Char or Casval is. In Char's Counterattack he's presenting different personalities to various groups to manipulate them. He's one person to Spacenoids, concerned over his father's legacy and trying to put an end to the Spacenoid wars, while presenting another personality to people like Quess, telling them he'll accept their love and is acting to stop the environmental destruction of the Earth and a third to the Federation where he acts respectful and concerned over Spacenoid independence and economic stability and so on. It seems much more comprehensive than anything in 0079.
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Jul 31, 2018 03:47
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The Origin made Char's sociopathic tendencies a lot more obvious than they were before Also I just remembered this one really good fanfic I found a while ago that I need to go dig back up
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Jul 31, 2018 03:54
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Char doesn't just lie "at times." His "mask" is that he befriends and endears himself to people he intends to kill. He sits down with kycellia and presents a completely different person from who he really is: a person who feels remorse and regret in murder. He's essentially an agent of the federation that got a little too good at his cover: his actual intentions are extremely anti-zabi and, by extension, anti-zeon, and he hides that behind the "mask" of a loyal soldier Also I always read the lalah love triangle as char-lalah having, essentially, a traditional, non-newtype relationship. They don't love each other because of some trippy spiritual connection, they have a care for each other that's evolved out of an actual interpersonal relationship. Amuro-lalah, on the other hand, is 100% a newtype connection, and both of them bemoan how the artifical nature of a relationship suddenly forced by newtype space magic just isn't practical at all: it's too late for lalah, as she already loves char, and it's too early for amuro, as he's a kid and isn't at all in a position to pursue any kind of relationship currently. It's tragic, because its a beautiful connectoon between two human beings, but it's a connection that mostly just exists to hurt them both, and they know it. It's not so much that lalah is able to "see through" char's mask so much as he willingly drops it for her, when he kisses her right before her final mission. Their entire relationship up until that point is mostly char denying that he particularly cares about her: he says that he's just using her for her abilities and is essentially sending her to her dead. Which is true, and also 100% consistent with his char persona. But when he finally kisses her, and shows genuine affection for another human being, that's no longer his true self and his persona coinciding: that's just casval kissing her. Other than maybe artesia, I don't believe casval ever shows genuine affection for another human being again, in his entire life.
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Jul 31, 2018 05:49
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What about Kamille? Or are you making the distinction between Casval and Quattro?
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Jul 31, 2018 06:28
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To be honest it's been like 5 years since I've seen zeta so I fully admit I might be forgetting some pretty major stuff about it, but I didn't really get the impression that casval's affection for kamille was genuine, rather than a product of quattro knowing what he SHOULD be doing but kind of being a mess at the whole "don't be a sociopath" thing.
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Jul 31, 2018 07:23
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ninjewtsu posted:anti-zabi and, by extension, anti-zeon An important distinction is that he's not anti-Zeon, he's anti-Pricipality-of-Zeon, because it's something that was built by Degwin Zabi. Part of his motivation post-OYW is reclaiming Zeonism (the philosophy advocating for people to get off Earth, and by extension for the colonies to be made independent), because he wants to disentangle the ideology of their murderers from his parents' actual ideology in order to destroy the Zabis' legacy. But yeah, Char is insane and obsessed with revenge, that's his main character traits. He was damaged by his upbringing, broken by his parents' deaths, passed the point of no return when he betrayed Garma, and any hope at recovery was utterly ruined by Lalah dying. Lalah is the only person to whom he ever felt a genuine connection (in large part because of newtype empathy), and that single fleeting moment of actual emotional connection leads to him obsessing over and grooming newtype children later on. The entire OYW-Zeta-CCA arc is just a study of his sinking into madness. Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 09:51 on Jul 31, 2018 |
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Jul 31, 2018 09:36
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Perhaps they can revise the entire thing so the Federation is just US special forces and Zeon is actually ISIS. Elite operator Amuro Ray liberates Casbah al-Daikum's hippie bride, tells her all this psychic stuff is nonsense, and then shoots the Black Muslim Tri-Stars. "How did he break through our perimeter?" "Gun!" "drat!" ninjewtsu posted:Wasn't there a tomino interview not too long ago in this thread where tomino said "char was originally gonna be a pretty generic rival, but then my stupid character designer gave him a mask and then I was forced to make him a compelling character based off hiding his identity"
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Jul 31, 2018 10:21
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Nessus posted:Was that the Five Star Stories dude? I heard there was some kind of elaborate cuckold drama with Tomino, him, and Maria Kawamura. Nah. The "my stupid character designer was too good at his job, the rear end in a top hat!" bit was about good old Yas. You know, Yoshikazu Yasuhiko, who did The Origin manga. As for Char, it feels unfair to forget that Blue Eyed Casval's biggest moments of Trying To Not Be A Manipulative poo poo came after Lalah died.
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Jul 31, 2018 11:06
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Jul 31, 2018 15:29
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tsob posted:"No, I totally can't show my full face at any time because of a medical condition and must wear this mask at all times" is more suspicious than any blonde haired, blue eyed youth could possibly be. eh this on it's own isn't particularly suspicious, his choice of wearing a ridiculous mask+helmet combo is what propels it into absurdity to be fair, "no saboteur would paint himself bright loving pink and cruise around wearing a helmet and blasting his own theme music" is a reasonable assumption so maybe it works for him ninjewtsu posted:Other than maybe artesia, I don't believe casval ever shows genuine affection for another human being again, in his entire life. he kiiinda tries to connect with Amuro, but it ends up a twisted mess that destroys everyone involved much like every other time he's done anything Yinlock fucked around with this message at 21:12 on Jul 31, 2018 |
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Jul 31, 2018 21:09
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Yinlock posted:eh this on it's own isn't particularly suspicious, his choice of wearing a ridiculous mask+helmet combo is what propels it into absurdity The helmet is a perfectly normal Zeon officer’s helmet. The mask is the only unusual part. Space Nazis just got some wild fashion sense, is all.
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Jul 31, 2018 21:14
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Darth Walrus posted:The helmet is a perfectly normal Zeon officer’s helmet. The mask is the only unusual part.
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Jul 31, 2018 21:19
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Stately Castle Zabi.
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Jul 31, 2018 21:59
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MonsieurChoc posted:Stately Castle Zabi. poo poo makes no sense. In Origin it looks like some GoT dragon castle carved from the rock poo poo which doesn't really fit with the space future. Did they drag a whole asteroid in there to carve it out of? Only fitting in that it's as insane as most of the Zabi family is.
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Jul 31, 2018 22:08
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The Notorious ZSB posted:poo poo makes no sense. In Origin it looks like some GoT dragon castle carved from the rock poo poo which doesn't really fit with the space future. Did they drag a whole asteroid in there to carve it out of? Only fitting in that it's as insane as most of the Zabi family is. I could see Gihren channeling his inner Dracula spirit animal & building the thing out of a fallen colony.
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Jul 31, 2018 22:21
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